Starting a new thread about the Israeli project

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
41

Right, which all leads me to believe this whole thing, from start to finish, isn’t “legit” in terms of any kind of real, effective treatment that we’d really be interested in.

We don’t know for sure that those photos really represent Pilox results. All we have it is someone (a poster who’s apparently disappeared or been banned from another website) telling us that his hairdresser said that. So it’s double hearsay. The word of a person we don’t know and have no reason to trust, quoting another person we don’t know.

And that’s not even getting into any questions about the inherent effectiveness of the treatment, proving any claims (we don’t even know what, exactly, the claims are), or, assuming they’ve done extensive testing (a big assumption) proving that the photos we’ve seen aren’t just the 1% cream-of-the-crop cherry-picked results out of a vast majority of poor or mediocre responders.

People – or should I say, lemmings – like needhairasap are literally getting carried away by some pictures which we know NOTHING about.

42

Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no f*cking cure here. I suspect that this whole thing, start to finish is based a pile of huge exaggerations.

Yes, the company is real, the patent is real, the device is real, but the “results” you saw most likely are not representative in any way of the true potential of the device/procedure. I think this will come to light sooner or later. This whole thing looks spurious, dubious and smells very bad, to me.

43

Brunobald don’t listen to these guys. I am the best guy to have talk to the Israeli team.

Look at how respectful I am towards Dr. Nigam, who is a researcher.

And look at the disrespectful posts that both Hairman and Needhairasap have posted against Dr. Nigam, who is a researcher.

Look how Lindo is asking me to email back-and-forth with Dr. Nigam. Lindo knows that I have one of the most open channels with Dr. Nigam of all the posters here. It’s very simple: I’m a respectful, inquisitive, evidence-gatherer who gives researchers the benefit of the doubt and doesn’t accuse them of anything without 100% ironclad evidence.

These other guys, except Roger-that, are the guys who would screw things up with the Israeli researchers. These guys don’t get it. It’s their nature to be rude, arrogant and undiplomatic. They make personal attacks against researchers, even racist attacks, at the drop of a hat. If there is a slight issue that merely needs to be thoughtfully and diplomatically examined and explained, these guys don’t try to figure it out. No. They go straight to personal character attacks. I’m not like that at all. I give the researchers the benefit of the doubt and I diplomatically and politely request a response.

I am exactly the guy to ask the Israeli team questions. If these other guys do it they will insult the researchers if any issue arises that needs clarification. I will work through it giving the researchers the benefit of the doubt. Roger_that, is bright and sensible, and he would understand if everything he was being told makes sense biologically, but he will not talk with them about trying to send their technology through and maybe it will pass customs.

My arguments in defense of Dr. Nigam aren’t baseless because some posters agree with me. I think these issues through whereas my critics just attack Dr. Nigam without being critical of their own arguments. Even if you disagree with some or all of my conclusions, my style how I work with Dr. Nigam is so much better than the way my detractors talk to and about Dr. Nigam. You do not want these other guys to talk with the Israeli researchers. It’s best to have me do this.

44

[quote]The cure comes and all you can do is shoot it down?

[postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]

Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no f*cking cure here. I suspect that this whole thing, start to finish is based a pile of huge exaggerations.

Yes, the company is real, the patent is real, the device is real, but the “results” you saw most likely are not representative in any way of the true potential of the device/procedure. I think this will come to light sooner or later. This whole thing looks spurious, dubious and smells very bad, to me.[/quote]

If you were working on perfecting your treatment, that would literally be a license to print money, if it worked-- if you were working on this device, would you want pictures circulating, or evidence circulating? NO.

we KNOW for a FACT that wounding (dermarolling and lazer hair tattoo removal) can cause some serious hair growth. The question is why does it sometimes not? Why does it sometimes do? Is it that crazy that somebody found a way to tame such an obvious nautural phenomena?

Also, what do you even think? Either:

  1. you think the thing doesnt work

or

  1. you think it works, but follica patents, FDA, etc, will hold it off the market

Which is it? Becase your arguments are all over that spectrum. You’re like a child throwing a tantrum about anything.

45

And Roger-that this is why one of us should be put into communication with these developers. You see, if they are legit we want them treated respectfully, but we also want someone to ask the hard questions.

None of these other guys can do this? They won’t give the explanations from the developers a fair listen. They will just attack and we don’t need that. If these developers aren’t legit we need to figure that out but if they are legit we don’t want to burn that bridge behind us. We just need someone to ask the right & hard questions, in a polite manner, and weigh the responses intelligently, giving them the benefit of a reasonable doubt.

46

Needhairasap, I want to believe in Pilox ? (I put a question mark instead of a model number because from what we’re being told I’m not sure which Pilox model is being tested since the developers wisely abandoned “breakthrough” Pilox models since they know that they have until the end of time to bring their treatment to market) as much as you want to believe. That’s why I want to talk with them. I have a knack for asking researchers tough questions respectfully without alienating them. Someone needs to do this. Guys like you and Hairman fly off the handle one way or the other without carefully thinking things through.

Have you given one second’s thought about why these Israeli developers did not continue with Pilox 2 after they got the results that are displayed in their Pilox 2 catalog? What’s with that Needhairasap? If you had a treatment that could do that would you have trash-canned it? Would you have started over with Pilox 3, and then Pilox 4, and then Pilox 5?

One of us needs to diplomatically and respectfully talk to the developers because there are some questions that we should find answers to and if things are legit we should try to get this treatment early. But there are some issues that need to be resolved and you aren’t even thinking of these issues that need to be resolved.

47

Roger-that the biggest question here that nobody is asking the developers is why did they sh!t-can Pilox 2 (obviously years ago) and go through at least one trial of Pilox 3, and then Pilox 4, and then Pilox 5?

The results displayed in the Pilox 2 catalog are the best results ever seen so why did the developers throw Pilox 2 in the waste can and spend years more on developing other Pilox models when they had a cure years ago? All these delays have done is allow their competition to cover ground needlessly. Pilox 2 would have retired Roagine and Propecia. Other companies like Follica, Histogen, Aderans and Replicel would have seen their funding dry up if Pilox 2 had come to market producing the results displayed in the Pilox 2 catalog.

I’m not even saying that this is all a sc@m. I’m just saying that someone needs to talk with the Israeli developers and ask them some good questions politely.

[quote]The cure comes and all you can do is shoot it down?

[postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]

Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no f*cking cure here. I suspect that this whole thing, start to finish is based a pile of huge exaggerations.

Yes, the company is real, the patent is real, the device is real, but the “results” you saw most likely are not representative in any way of the true potential of the device/procedure. I think this will come to light sooner or later. This whole thing looks spurious, dubious and smells very bad, to me.[/quote]

48

I don’t want to ask them because I’m already pretty skeptical and somewhat biased against them at this point, jarjar. But I think you should, as you have an open mind about it. We might actually learn something.

I’m not totally writing this off as bunk, but adding up everything we know (and curiously, everything we still don’t know) about this thing together in my head, it comes up quite short – like some kind of slippery ruse.

I think that behind everything that has been reported, and the information brunobald got, there’s a lot more that the company is deliberately hiding and concealing, and I think not for good reasons (like they’re trying to conceal the secret hairloss cure of the century), but rather, for bad reasons, e.g., that they’re trying elaborately to conceal the fact that it just doesn’t work very well and they’re trying to maneuver around lawsuits and lawsuit threats, and big problems getting the thing to produce real, reliable results, and THAT is why they haven’t reported more.

Just my intuition adding up everything together… It just doesn’t smell right.

49

Needhairasap, someone needs to ask the developers some good questions respectfully. You are jumping the gun again. Look, I hope you’re right, but I have some questions/issues that we really should resolve. Some of this doesn’t make a lot of sense. Sometimes reality is like that - sometimes reality doesn’t make sense. I understand that. We need to keep an open mind and carefully evaluate the facts. I would like to get into communication with the developers. If you don’t want me to do it then you do it. But somebody needs to do it.

50

I have an open mind about it but I must admit that I have some skepticism about it as well. I have a handful of questions/issues about it that someone should address. You know one of my issues (why did they trash-can Pilox 2 after producing the results in the Pilox 2 catalog?) I have some other equally good questions/issues that I think should be resolved but I don’t want to state them yet. I would rather put those questions to them directly and evaluate their responses.

I’m not convinced that it isn’t legit because there are reasons to believe in it, beyond our own desires. For example, the patent goes back a long way. If this is a sc@m this has been in the works for a very long time. The time, effort, and money put into it is considerable, especially considering that if the product doesn’t work it will get bad word-of-mouth and reviews, so it will stop being a cash-cow quickly.

I think that there’s a chance it’s legit but I have some skepticism too. I need more information to form a conclusion. Right now, I’m undecided so I am open-minded.

51

No amount of questions can determine if this is for real or not. Of course the photos could be doctored and the device nothing more than a dermaroller in a fancy casing. Until you have it in your hand, use it and see sh!t loads of hair new hair sprouting its just all hear say.

Yoram won’t give me any details and why should he, leaking details now would give competiton time to build a competitor device. He would gain nothing yet risk losing the whole thing to some rip off operation.

Roger my reference to copper peptide was related to the seperate dermaroller protocall not pilox. But I agree that even if it uses ions of zinc and copper only, I would still class them as a drug.

Its very frustrating to think that this might be a potential way of efficently stopping hair loss safely and there is no way of replicating the study or buying the prduct. In 2-3 years or however long it take to release my hair will be long gone, then again it could be a load of crap and we are lusting after lies.

52

anyone who spends more than 15 minutes reading this forum will quickly identify your psychosis, jarjar. Also apart from your obvious mental impairment, you entirely lack eloquence and logic.

Due to this inability to articulate yourself properly you mostly resort to repeating the same exact content in multiple concurring sentences (and often repetitive posts) making you sound like an imbecilic more often than not.

here is a brilliant example of your eloquence (count the occurrences of “fall by the wayside”):

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-125164-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

You will say but their competitors, Aderans, Histogen, Follica, etc, all are falling by the wayside, but keep in mind that a few years ago nobody knew Histogen, Follica, Aderans, replical, etc, were all going to fall by the wayside? It is only recently that these companies started falling by the wayside.

I’m sorry but you really are simply intellectually not up to the task to speak to these researchers.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Needhairasap, go away! You’re one of the problematic posters who attacks/insults resarchers that come here. All brunobald has to do to verify that is email Dr. Nigam and Dr. Nigam will assure him that both you and Hairman post rude personal and unjustified attacks against Dr. Nigam. When push comes to shove you’re one of the sheep Hairman leads around in his peanut gallery. You didn’t object to me to communicating with the Israeli developer until Hairman put the idea into your empty head. You are nothing but a follower playing follow the leader with Hairman as the leader.

One thing I didn’t want to share with you is that it might be possible for some of us to buy this treatment now and try to get it past customs like we do with so many other things. I didn’t mention this in earlier posts for reasons I do not care to illuminate. Some of us want to try it NOW Needhairasap, even if you do not.

And your idiocy and lunacy have made it abundantly clear that your opinion really is worthless so please just go away.[/quote]

53

I dont quite understand your criticism roger.

Firstly, the unknown poster who disappeared was merely the messenger, people who are interested in this treatment are interested because it appears that there is actual merit to what the poster said. Not because of his credence as a respected forum member.

Also, in regard to the effectiveness of the treatment, of course these will be hand-picked best responders. All companies from Propecia over Histogen to Aderans will always will show you their creme de la creme. While this may be something to keep in mind when assessing one’s own expectations, it is not really out of the ordinary. The fact is that even if these are the best responders, they are still much better than many other of the mentioned treatments.

Anyway, I reserve my position toward pilox as the information that we have is so sparse passing any kind of judgment at this point seems highly speculative.

54

Assuming the “results” in those photos are real, this doesn’t look like the effect of DHT blocking.

DHT blocking would have a long-term effect of slowing or stopping hairloss, but wouldn’t be expected to show such a quick and dramatic effect of causing regrowth.

55

Generally, if a company is sitting on a valid, legitimate patent, they wouldn’t be afraid to release at least some details to the public, even a basic description of how the product works.

56

[quote]anyone who spends more than 15 minutes reading this forum will quickly identify your psychosis, jarjar. Also apart from your obvious mental impairment, you entirely lack eloquence and logic.

Due to this inability to articulate yourself properly you mostly resort to repeating the same exact content in multiple concurring sentences (and often repetitive posts) making you sound like an imbecilic more often than not.
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]

When I came to these hairloss forum, I was quickly amazed by this ‘Ironman’ character. I thought I’d never seen anyone weirder than this guy. That was until I started reading JarJar’s posts. This guy makes Ironman look like a sane man. He’s allergic to reason and logic, he 's lost all grip on reality, has the IQ of a 5 year old, likes to repeat himself 10 times, preferably in 10 seperate posts and pretty much always resorts to insults. The quickest way to ensure those researchers will never respond again is to get JarJarbinx in touch with them.

57

You’re right!

Dutasteride is a strong DHT blocker and it does not produce these types of results on a consistent basis.

58

dut stops dht

it doesn’t have grwoth factors though

wounding raises pge2 and other stuff, apparetnly copper helps.

you need 2 things for a cure, lower DHT and then growth stuff… thats why dut and fin never did enough

59

Yea, the same as I ran off Dr. Nigam.

Oh wait that was you.

60

I read about 1/3 of your post and then gave up on it for it’s stupidity and bs.
You’re the leader of the peanut-gallery brigade here at Hairsite and anyone with sense should completely ignore anything you say. Being the smartest idiot among the tea-party types is nothing to brag about, and that is exactly what you are - the smartest of the stupid here. We are already not getting sufficient info you moron. Things could not be much worse and I have no history of damaging relations with researchers but you and your wrecked relations with at least one researcher.