Starting a new thread about the Israeli project

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
61

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by licht[/postedby]
Lastly, would it be possible to ask him what relation those two scientists have to the product? This question is source of a lot of speculation about this.[/quote]
Well, to me it seems that they actually believe in this product. As you can read in the patents description, one of the inventors was/is a patient:

The subject of the experiment was one of the inventors, Mr. Dov Ingman. Mr. Ingman is 63 years old. He has been slowly balding for the past 30 years. Figure 13A is an image of Mr. Ingman’s scalp taken during October 2007, before treatment was started on February 2011. The state of hair at the beginning of the treatment was very similar to the one in the 2007 picture]
…
Figure 13B is an image of taken during September 2011. The increase in the amount of hair in comparison to figure 13A is significant. The increase in the amount/density of hair seems to vary among different regions. There seem to be more active follicles, with significant conversion from vellus hair to terminal hair. The treatment was applied to all balding areas. The impression provided is an expert’s opinion. The expert was closely monitoring the progress.

So maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to ask Mr. Ingman if he wants to talk about his invention…?!

62

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I read about 1/3 of your post and then gave up on it for it’s stupidity and bs.
You’re the leader of the peanut-gallery brigade here at Hairsite and anyone with sense should completely ignore anything you say. Being the smartest idiot among the tea-party types is nothing to brag about, and that is exactly what you are - the smartest of the stupid here. We are already not getting sufficient info you moron. Things could not be much worse and I have no history of damaging relations with researchers but you and your wrecked relations with at least one researcher.[/quote]

Nigam is as much a researcher as you are albert einstein. These israelis on the other hand might actually have something real. We cant let you screw that up

63

Of course you don’t understand Roger’s criticism - you’re an idiot so of course you don’t understand things. There is some reason to believe that the treatment may be valid but there are also major reasons to be skeptical.

The unknown poster who first reported the info was a brand new poster, who came out of left field with a pretty ludicrous story about how his hair dresser released private information to him about a hair loss cure. That poster is now gone. Almost all of the posters who are releasing info about Pillox are new posters. Even Brunobald is a brand new poster. The newness of the posters/messengers alone is enough to raise red flags.

Roger’s criticisms are exactly the concerns any reasonable person would have. What is your problem dude? The kinds of questions Roger raises are exactly the kind of questions one should be raising.

To hear you tell it people should not express doubts about Pillox and so tell us exactly why it is that people should not raise doubts about Pillox even as you yourself express that you haven’t made up your own mind about Pillox?

And what exactly is your plan to get better info about Pillox moron?

[quote]I dont quite understand your criticism roger.

Firstly, the unknown poster who disappeared was merely the messenger, people who are interested in this treatment are interested because it appears that there is actual merit to what the poster said. Not because of his credence as a respected forum member.

Also, in regard to the effectiveness of the treatment, of course these will be hand-picked best responders. All companies from Propecia over Histogen to Aderans will always will show you their creme de la creme. While this may be something to keep in mind when assessing one’s own expectations, it is not really out of the ordinary. The fact is that even if these are the best responders, they are still much better than many other of the mentioned treatments.

Anyway, I reserve my position toward pilox as the information that we have is so sparse passing any kind of judgment at this point seems highly speculative.

[postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]

We don’t know for sure that those photos really represent Pilox results. All we have it is someone (a poster who’s apparently disappeared or been banned from another website) telling us that his hairdresser said that. So it’s double hearsay. The word of a person we don’t know and have no reason to trust, quoting another person we don’t know.

And that’s not even getting into any questions about the inherent effectiveness of the treatment, proving any claims (we don’t even know what, exactly, the claims are), or, assuming they’ve done extensive testing (a big assumption) proving that the photos we’ve seen aren’t just the 1% cream-of-the-crop cherry-picked results out of a vast majority of poor or mediocre responders.

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]

64

What a joke! The funniest part about it is that you actually believe your drivel. The fact that the top researchers in hair loss discuss hair loss research with Dr. Nigam means that they accept that he’s a researcher. And then there’s also the fact that he does bonafide hair loss research but of course you aren’t smart enough to grasp that doing bonafide lawful & authorized (sanctioned) research makes you a researcher. It’s not like he does his research behind the backs of the authorities.

BTW, your statements that he’s not a researcher are actually kind of racist because what you’re actually doing is belittling the India systems.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I read about 1/3 of your post and then gave up on it for it’s stupidity and bs.
You’re the leader of the peanut-gallery brigade here at Hairsite and anyone with sense should completely ignore anything you say. Being the smartest idiot among the tea-party types is nothing to brag about, and that is exactly what you are - the smartest of the stupid here. We are already not getting sufficient info you moron. Things could not be much worse and I have no history of damaging relations with researchers but you and your wrecked relations with at least one researcher.

[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]

Nigam is as much a researcher as you are albert einstein. These israelis on the other hand might actually have something real. We cant let you screw that up[/quote]

65

I truly laugh out loud at your childish posts.

On the one hand you truly believe that the Israeli’s might have the big cure for hair loss (which they abandoned years ago so they could go back to the drawing board to start creating/developing other new big cures for hair loss, which they would report to a hair dresser who would in turn report it to us through newbie posters at hair websites) while on the other hand you truly believe that there’s something I could say to them that could get them to abandon their latest new big cure for hair loss.

You can’t make this stuff up.

66

[quote]What a joke! The funniest part about it is that you actually believe your drivel. The fact that the top researchers in hair loss discuss hair loss research with Dr. Nigam means that they accept that he’s a researcher. And then there’s also the fact that he does bonafide hair loss research but of course you aren’t smart enough to grasp that doing bonafide lawful & authorized (sanctioned) research makes you a researcher. It’s not like he does his research behind the backs of the authorities.

BTW, your statements that he’s not a researcher are actually kind of racist because what you’re actually doing is belittling the India systems.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I read about 1/3 of your post and then gave up on it for it’s stupidity and bs.
You’re the leader of the peanut-gallery brigade here at Hairsite and anyone with sense should completely ignore anything you say. Being the smartest idiot among the tea-party types is nothing to brag about, and that is exactly what you are - the smartest of the stupid here. We are already not getting sufficient info you moron. Things could not be much worse and I have no history of damaging relations with researchers but you and your wrecked relations with at least one researcher.

[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]

Nigam is as much a researcher as you are albert einstein. These israelis on the other hand might actually have something real. We cant let you screw that up

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]

LOL. So if you buy a ticket for a hairloss conference and you talk to a REAL researcher then we should assume you are one too ? :smiley: And what real research has Nigam conducted, can you point me to a paper he’s written ? I thought so. You should stop drinking man, your delirium is getting worse every day now.

67

Again, your post is kind of racist because you’re actually degrading the India way of life.

That aside, the top researchers do more than carry on small talk with Dr. Nigam. They are obviously sharing ideas with him and they are obviously taking him seriously. They know he’s doing experiments and incorporating their ideas and they continue to share info with him. If Jahoda or these other top researchers knew you were conducting home experiments incorporating the things they say to you they would stop talking to you for fear of liability if someone got hurt. In other words, they would respect you but they do respect Dr. Nigam.

He’s conducting lawful (sanctioned) research. There’s just no way around that simple truth. If he was doing his experiments outside of the law then maybe there would be something to your point but he is doing this research in plain view of the authorities and within the boundaries of the law. The only way to deny that what he’s doing is research is by besmirching/degarding the systems of India. You would have to be saying that doing research in India does not count as real research because it’s India.

There is no rule that says that research has to involve scientific papers. Research is reasearch. If Jahoda did not do a paper in connection with his recent experiment it would still be called an experiment/research.

[quote]What a joke! The funniest part about it is that you actually believe your drivel. The fact that the top researchers in hair loss discuss hair loss research with Dr. Nigam means that they accept that he’s a researcher. And then there’s also the fact that he does bonafide hair loss research but of course you aren’t smart enough to grasp that doing bonafide lawful & authorized (sanctioned) research makes you a researcher. It’s not like he does his research behind the backs of the authorities.

BTW, your statements that he’s not a researcher are actually kind of racist because what you’re actually doing is belittling the India systems.

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I read about 1/3 of your post and then gave up on it for it’s stupidity and bs.
You’re the leader of the peanut-gallery brigade here at Hairsite and anyone with sense should completely ignore anything you say. Being the smartest idiot among the tea-party types is nothing to brag about, and that is exactly what you are - the smartest of the stupid here. We are already not getting sufficient info you moron. Things could not be much worse and I have no history of damaging relations with researchers but you and your wrecked relations with at least one researcher.

[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]

Nigam is as much a researcher as you are albert einstein. These israelis on the other hand might actually have something real. We cant let you screw that up

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]

LOL. So if you buy a ticket for a hairloss conference and you talk to a REAL researcher then we should assume you are one too ? :smiley: And what real research has Nigam conducted, can you point me to a paper he’s written ? I thought so. You should stop drinking man, your delirium is getting worse every day now.[/quote]

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[quote]
There is no rule that says that research has to involve scientific papers. Research is reasearch. If Jahoda did not do a paper in connection with his recent experiment it would still be called an experiment/research.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]

I’m pretty sure you’ve never seen an university from the inside otherwise you wouldn’t compare ‘dr mengele - what happens if I just cut follicles in half, ooops I killed everything sorry dear patient, you owe me $10.000 by the way’ kind of experimenting to scientific research. I’m pretty sure you have never even heard of scientific methodology. Scientific method - Wikipedia

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I’ve heard of the scientific method. Are you saying that research can only be done at schools/universities? There is a lot of research done at doctor’s offices and drug companies, among other places.

[quote]
There is no rule that says that research has to involve scientific papers. Research is reasearch. If Jahoda did not do a paper in connection with his recent experiment it would still be called an experiment/research.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by Lindo[/postedby]

I’m pretty sure you’ve never seen an university from the inside otherwise you wouldn’t compare ‘dr mengele - what happens if I just cut follicles in half, ooops I killed everything sorry dear patient, you owe me $10.000 by the way’ kind of experimenting to scientific research. I’m pretty sure you have never even heard of scientific methodology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method[/quote]

70

Whether or not the developers can easily answer difficult questions with logical answers could tell us a lot.Also, People ask other people questions all the time in the hope of getting a sense of the other person’s accuracy. If there’s no point in asking people questions to try to get at the truth we might as well get rid of the entire American justice system which results in witnesses getting on the witness stand to answer questions.

Well anyway, Roger may have found a way to get the same information from the Israeli government and it would be better to get the evidence from the Israeli government anyway.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by brunobald[/postedby]
No amount of questions can determine if this is for real or not. Of course the photos could be doctored and the device nothing more than a dermaroller in a fancy casing. Until you have it in your hand, use it and see sh!t loads of hair new hair sprouting its just all hear say.

Yoram won’t give me any details and why should he, leaking details now would give competiton time to build a competitor device. He would gain nothing yet risk losing the whole thing to some rip off operation.

Roger my reference to copper peptide was related to the seperate dermaroller protocall not pilox. But I agree that even if it uses ions of zinc and copper only, I would still class them as a drug.

Its very frustrating to think that this might be a potential way of efficently stopping hair loss safely and there is no way of replicating the study or buying the prduct. In 2-3 years or however long it take to release my hair will be long gone, then again it could be a load of crap and we are lusting after lies.[/quote]

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I’m not talking about hair-doubling. That is basically a hair transplant. I am not interested in a hair transplant. I am not paying any attention to that discussion.

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[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Guys please! Let’s keep this thread on topic about the Israeli project.
…
let’s put our heads together.
[/quote]

I’m a new poster on this board. Maybe that’s why I was hoping that we could really discuss Pilox without treating ourselves with hostility.
I was happy to see some new posts in this topic, just to find out they had nothing to do with Pilox and were way below the belt contentwise.
Maybe we all should try to keep this topic clean and think twice about what we’re posting.

73

Ross, thanks for this additional information. I didn’t see any photos included in the versions of the patent descriptions I found on the internet. They all seemed to be automated re-posts from patent aggregator sites, but not the original version from the WIPO site.

Looking at the WIPO database now, I found this:

See in the lower left side of the page, there are small before and after photos in black and white. Are these photos of Dov Ingman the same as the photos the original poster put up on T.B.T., claiming they were from his hairdresser? Are they the same person, or a different patient?

The photos of Ingman in the patent show some growth, but it’s not that impressive, if you ask me.

74

Hello Guys,

I’m the initial original poster from BTB.
if you read it, you also know that i managed to enter the trials. i have Piloxll in my home.
i stopped posting the post in BTB since it went of topic and in addition, i was told that they didn’t want the product to receive this attention.
since brunobald did receive answers from Yoram, knowing it will be published, i believe i can tell you a little bit more in the same limited frame.
i’m willing to share in one condition - keep the thread in topic!
i will give answers in a new thread if admin will open one for this purpose.
Any question that i’m not sure about, i will ask Yorm if i can answer it.
if the thread will get of topic i will stop posting.

Meanwhile, i do can say to all of you, THERE IS HOPE!

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Vrat—Do you think it would work for a NW6 who has been bald for 20 years.

Thanks Mell

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Vraf, thank you for posting here!

How are your results so far?

Is there a medical doctor supervising your trial and monitoring your progress?

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Hello mell,

I’ve seen the miracles this product is capable to but i don’t know the official answer to your question. i will gather a list of questions to ask Yoram and this will be one of them.

But please Guys, lets DO it in a new thread so we will have order and every one could follow.

Please admin, open a new thread for this cause here, it will be messy. this thread has too many personal-fights-off-topic posts.

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Vraf, contact Hairsite@aol.com

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Vraf, I’m jarjarbinx.

I promise that I will not go off-topic unless I’m attacked first. I ask Lindo, Hairman, and needhairasap to all 3 not attack me for the good of the community. I will only talk respectfully and civilly to everyone in the thread as long as I am not attacked.

Guys, we have vraf back. If we want to learn things about the Israeli project I recommend we bury the hatchet for the one thread and agree to not do any bickering in that one thread wherein we are talking with vraf.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by vraf[/postedby]
Hello Guys,

I’m the initial original poster from BTB.
if you read it, you also know that i managed to enter the trials. i have Piloxll in my home.
i stopped posting the post in BTB since it went of topic and in addition, i was told that they didn’t want the product to receive this attention.
since brunobald did receive answers from Yoram, knowing it will be published, i believe i can tell you a little bit more in the same limited frame.
i’m willing to share in one condition - keep the thread in topic!
i will give answers in a new thread if admin will open one for this purpose.
Any question that i’m not sure about, i will ask Yorm if i can answer it.
if the thread will get of topic i will stop posting.

Meanwhile, i do can say to all of you, THERE IS HOPE![/quote]

80

with by-the-protocol usage, the results are visible in 2 month.
the protocol is 3 times a week, 5 minutes treatment.
the more you use, the faster and better results.
i use it for 3 times a day for 2.5 weeks.
i do see amazing results and i use nothing then Piloxll.