Starting a new thread about the Israeli project

I wouldn’t necessarily count that as a cause for optimism. The 2 scientists may be listed as the “inventors”, but I’m sure they were just hired by Pilox to design the device. Normally, that qualifies them as the “inventors” and then they assign patent rights to the company and its owners. The concept of the device wasn’t their idea. They are simply hired engineers who probably knew nothing about this until they were approached by Pilox. Pilox probably found them in the telephone directory under “Engineers”, like when you search for a dentist.

I still call this whole Pilox-whatsit thing a case of either total bullsh*t, or else a better version of PRP/needling/dermbrasion/etc. Maybe a combination of a better version and a few very cherry-picked result cases.

None of these light scalp injuring methods have ever done anything really cosmetically significant before. We’ve seen them visibly boost dying hairs TEMPORARILY though. But the patient is back to baseline within a year and the results are never compoundable.

I remain optimistic that something related to scalp wounding may eventually save us. But if we haven’t discovered it decades or centuries ago then it’s almost surely going to require some new drug that didn’t exist in the past. I’m not convinced that this new doohickey from the Israelis is different enough to do anything unprecedented.

I made the connection from this “derma pen” to the guy who is supposed to offer Pilox II because I found this russian site (once again, I don’t know this product and probably wouldn’t buy it):
http://www.thickhair.ru/
I used Google Translate and found the description of the device to be rather interesting, but surely not groundbreaking. But you can see that the guy we’re talking about is advertising this derma pen with his picture and his name on that site if you scroll down a bit.
If Pilox II would be “just another invention” by this guy I probably wouldn’t believe it really works. But the patent of the apparatus and the description look promising to me: WIPO - Search International and National Patent Collections
What I don’t understand is: derma-rolling is going on for many, many years. And some forum members are saying that this is the cure. So if this wounding theory would work, why don’t all of the guys who have tried it in the past have full hair by now?! It’s not that I don’t believe it can work, but atm I doubt the results you can see in the Pilox II hairdresser book are real. I wish I’m wrong on this though.

I have exchanged a few emails with Yoram and he was willing to help me join the trial if I was living in Israel ( which I don’t unfortuntely ), there may be a slight possibility that if you are willing to travel to Israel for checkups he might let you into the trial?

I only managed to get a few small facts out from Yoram regarding his projects,

  1. Pilox 2 is the secound generation prototype
  2. Pilox 4 is were they started seeing good results quickly
  3. The current Pilox is now Pilox 5
  4. I don’t know which generation gave the results shown in the pics
  5. The pictures were from Yorams private album that he did not intend to get out onto the web. I think Yoram may have requested the removal of photos from BTT?
  6. Pilox bears no relation to dermarolling, I think he means it does not involve wounding at all.
  7. Pilox does not use drugs so the responce and responce rate is higher as body chemistry has less of a influence on the workings of the treatment.
  8. Yoram is developing a new dermapen treatment for a clincal enviroment, I assume that is what we see on the russian website. Basic description is dermapen + Copper peptide + Complex? This is unrelated to Pilox.

I don’t think I have disclosed anything sensitive and unfortunelty this is all I know about the project.

If the patent was from Pilox 1 or 2, we have no real way of knowing what has changed to make the machine work better.

The only link I can make is Zinc has been proven to be a strong DHT inhibiter. Isolated tests show up to 90% in a dish outside the body. Inside the body it does not work. Maybe Yorams Zinc ions place zinc right were it needs to be and therefore blocks DHT in the scalp?

  1. How long until they will start selling a working model?

  2. Can you please put me into email communication with him? Even if he isn’t interested in USA trials he would still likely be interested in US sales. I would like to discuss with him his plan for US sales and when.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by brunobald[/postedby]
I have exchanged a few emails with Yoram and he was willing to help me join the trial if I was living in Israel ( which I don’t unfortuntely ), there may be a slight possibility that if you are willing to travel to Israel for checkups he might let you into the trial?

I only managed to get a few small facts out from Yoram regarding his projects,

  1. Pilox 2 is the secound generation prototype
  2. Pilox 4 is were they started seeing good results quickly
  3. The current Pilox is now Pilox 5
  4. I don’t know which generation gave the results shown in the pics
  5. The pictures were from Yorams private album that he did not intend to get out onto the web. I think Yoram may have requested the removal of photos from BTT?
  6. Pilox bears no relation to dermarolling, I think he means it does not involve wounding at all.
  7. Pilox does not use drugs so the responce and responce rate is higher as body chemistry has less of a influence on the workings of the treatment.
  8. Yoram is developing a new dermapen treatment for a clincal enviroment, I assume that is what we see on the russian website. Basic description is dermapen + Copper peptide + Complex? This is unrelated to Pilox.

I don’t think I have disclosed anything sensitive and unfortunelty this is all I know about the project.

If the patent was from Pilox 1 or 2, we have no real way of knowing what has changed to make the machine work better.

The only link I can make is Zinc has been proven to be a strong DHT inhibiter. Isolated tests show up to 90% in a dish outside the body. Inside the body it does not work. Maybe Yorams Zinc ions place zinc right were it needs to be and therefore blocks DHT in the scalp?[/quote]

whatever you do, DO NOT give jarjarbinx any kind of contact address… he is a well known psychopath and should really be kept away from sane people. I am sure, many here will agree. This is no joke, if jarjar gets in touch with this guy, it will surely be the last we ever hear from him.

[quote]1. I would imagine his P5 results would be better than his P2 results or else he would be continuing his P2 treatment rather than moving away from P2 treatment

  1. How long until t.hey will start selling a working model?

  2. Can you please put me into email communication with him? Even if he isn’t interested in USA trials he would still likely be interested in US sales. I would like to discuss with him his plan for US sales and when.

[postedby]Originally Posted by brunobald[/postedby]
I have exchanged a few emails with Yoram and he was willing to help me join the trial if I was living in Israel ( which I don’t unfortuntely ), there may be a slight possibility that if you are willing to travel to Israel for checkups he might let you into the trial?

I only managed to get a few small facts out from Yoram regarding his projects,

  1. Pilox 2 is the secound generation prototype
  2. Pilox 4 is were they started seeing good results quickly
  3. The current Pilox is now Pilox 5
  4. I don’t know which generation gave the results shown in the pics
  5. The pictures were from Yorams private album that he did not intend to get out onto the web. I think Yoram may have requested the removal of photos from BTT?
  6. Pilox bears no relation to dermarolling, I think he means it does not involve wounding at all.
  7. Pilox does not use drugs so the responce and responce rate is higher as body chemistry has less of a influence on the workings of the treatment.
  8. Yoram is developing a new dermapen treatment for a clincal enviroment, I assume that is what we see on the russian website. Basic description is dermapen + Copper peptide + Complex? This is unrelated to Pilox.

I don’t think I have disclosed anything sensitive and unfortunelty this is all I know about the project.

If the patent was from Pilox 1 or 2, we have no real way of knowing what has changed to make the machine work better.

The only link I can make is Zinc has been proven to be a strong DHT inhibiter. Isolated tests show up to 90% in a dish outside the body. Inside the body it does not work. Maybe Yorams Zinc ions place zinc right were it needs to be and therefore blocks DHT in the scalp?

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]

Great news, bruno!
I’m quite sure the booklet from the hairdresser was called “Pilox II”. So probably the results shown in the photos were also from the second generation of Pilox?
In the patent they speak about the Second Generations Pilogics Apparatus for Stimulating Hair Growth and/or Preventing Hair Loss. Interesting to hear that they now work on the fifth generation.
I don’t want to compare this device to derma-rolling, but in the “Claims” of said patent they talk about “needles piercing the skin”. So I think Pilox will also work with wounding.

Regarding the needles, yes the patent does reffer to them but in not sure if pilox 5 still incorperates needles and wounding? There is a picture of the discs in the patent and they look like little wood saw blades not dermaroller needles. I was thinking maybe theses saw blades are alternatively electroplated with copper and zinc and have a small charge passed through them so they displace their ions. The needles or teeth will help break down Down into the skin and deposit the Ions into the skin near the follicule depth? Just a theory?

Look at the patent there are pics of the machine and blades there.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
I still call this whole Pilox-whatsit thing a case of either total bullsh*t, or else a better version of PRP/needling/dermbrasion/etc. Maybe a combination of a better version and a few very cherry-picked result cases.

None of these light scalp injuring methods have ever done anything really cosmetically significant before. We’ve seen them visibly boost dying hairs TEMPORARILY though. But the patient is back to baseline within a year and the results are never compoundable.

I remain optimistic that something related to scalp wounding may eventually save us. But if we haven’t discovered it decades or centuries ago then it’s almost surely going to require some new drug that didn’t exist in the past. I’m not convinced that this new doohickey from the Israelis is different enough to do anything unprecedented.[/quote]

Your post is full of poor logic

Also, do not give JarJar his contact…

JarJar,

do you think this guy doesn’t know he is sitting on a gold mine? He needs JarJarbynx of the online hair foums to illuminate him on how people in the US would buy this?

I’m pretty sure he knows he could sell these tomorrow.

He has some sort of strategy for not selling them tomorrow.

Why do you post your drivel? You’re pathetic. It’s the people like you who drive researchers away. Anyone can send an email to Dr. Nigam, or post to Dr. Nigam, and Dr. Nigam will inform the person that Jarjar is someone intelligent, respecful, and easy to talk with. Dr. Nigam will also inform the person that Hairman is one of the posters who’s rude and defamatory, among other things. One thing that is really problematic about Hairman is that he jumps to conclusions without waiting for all of the facts/evidence, and he can be easily fooled by detractors who besmirch researchers for their own competitive personal gain.

I have talked with half a dozen researchers over the years and researchers and I get along quite well. I have spoken to Jahoda before on 3 or 4 occasions and I could call him again any time I want. My communications with Jahoda have not stopped him from doing his hair loss research. I had numerous conversations with Hideo Uno, T. Battman, and the entire Rousel Uclaf scientific staff, who were going to invite me personally into the RU studies if Rousel Uclaf had proceeded with studies. I get along very well with researchers Hairman.

You are an idiot.

[quote]whatever you do, DO NOT give jarjarbinx any kind of contact address… he is a well known psychopath and should really be kept away from sane people. I am sure, many here will agree. This is no joke, if jarjar gets in touch with this guy, it will surely be the last we ever hear from him.

  1. I would imagine his P5 results would be better than his P2 results or else he would be continuing his P2 treatment rather than moving away from P2 treatment

  2. How long until t.hey will start selling a working model?

  3. Can you please put me into email communication with him? Even if he isn’t interested in USA trials he would still likely be interested in US sales. I would like to discuss with him his plan for US sales and when.

[postedby]Originally Posted by brunobald[/postedby]
I have exchanged a few emails with Yoram and he was willing to help me join the trial if I was living in Israel ( which I don’t unfortuntely ), there may be a slight possibility that if you are willing to travel to Israel for checkups he might let you into the trial?

I only managed to get a few small facts out from Yoram regarding his projects,

  1. Pilox 2 is the secound generation prototype
  2. Pilox 4 is were they started seeing good results quickly
  3. The current Pilox is now Pilox 5
  4. I don’t know which generation gave the results shown in the pics
  5. The pictures were from Yorams private album that he did not intend to get out onto the web. I think Yoram may have requested the removal of photos from BTT?
  6. Pilox bears no relation to dermarolling, I think he means it does not involve wounding at all.
  7. Pilox does not use drugs so the responce and responce rate is higher as body chemistry has less of a influence on the workings of the treatment.
  8. Yoram is developing a new dermapen treatment for a clincal enviroment, I assume that is what we see on the russian website. Basic description is dermapen + Copper peptide + Complex? This is unrelated to Pilox.

I don’t think I have disclosed anything sensitive and unfortunelty this is all I know about the project.

If the patent was from Pilox 1 or 2, we have no real way of knowing what has changed to make the machine work better.

The only link I can make is Zinc has been proven to be a strong DHT inhibiter. Isolated tests show up to 90% in a dish outside the body. Inside the body it does not work. Maybe Yorams Zinc ions place zinc right were it needs to be and therefore blocks DHT in the scalp?

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]

As they continue to create new generations they are having to start over and this will lengthen how the length of time to get it to market. Also, the Pilox 2 results in the photo album were very good so there really was no reason to go beyond that. I doubt if the newer version (generation 5) will produce anymore hair so they really are wasting time if their treatment is legit.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Ross[/postedby]
Great news, bruno!
I’m quite sure the booklet from the hairdresser was called “Pilox II”. So probably the results shown in the photos were also from the second generation of Pilox?
In the patent they speak about the Second Generations Pilogics Apparatus for Stimulating Hair Growth and/or Preventing Hair Loss. Interesting to hear that they now work on the fifth generation.
I don’t want to compare this device to derma-rolling, but in the “Claims” of said patent they talk about “needles piercing the skin”. So I think Pilox will also work with wounding.[/quote]

Needhairasap, go away! You’re one of the problematic posters who attacks/insults resarchers that come here. All brunobald has to do to verify that is email Dr. Nigam and Dr. Nigam will assure him that both you and Hairman post rude personal and unjustified attacks against Dr. Nigam. When push comes to shove you’re one of the sheep Hairman leads around in his peanut gallery. You didn’t object to me to communicating with the Israeli developer until Hairman put the idea into your empty head. You are nothing but a follower playing follow the leader with Hairman as the leader.

One thing I didn’t want to share with you is that it might be possible for some of us to buy this treatment now and try to get it past customs like we do with so many other things. I didn’t mention this in earlier posts for reasons I do not care to illuminate. Some of us want to try it NOW Needhairasap, even if you do not.

And your idiocy and lunacy have made it abundantly clear that your opinion really is worthless so please just go away.

I bet they could be persuaded to release it to some of us NOW in exchange for money.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by brunobald[/postedby]
Regarding the needles, yes the patent does reffer to them but in not sure if pilox 5 still incorperates needles and wounding? There is a picture of the discs in the patent and they look like little wood saw blades not dermaroller needles. I was thinking maybe theses saw blades are alternatively electroplated with copper and zinc and have a small charge passed through them so they displace their ions. The needles or teeth will help break down Down into the skin and deposit the Ions into the skin near the follicule depth? Just a theory?

Look at the patent there are pics of the machine and blades there.[/quote]

Thank you so much, Bruno! This is wonderful news you bring us.

I went and searched around a bit, this time on Yoram Benitah (I didn’t remeber his name from the original vraf’s post over at BTT so only inquired about Dov Ingman earlier). It’s somewhat interesting.

He is quite a celebrity here it turns out. He’s the founder of the above mentioned Israeli Hair Clinic, which is one of the biggest in the country and, as I remember now, even did advertise heavily in the mass media in the last few years. He visits Moscow regularly, participates in pr events sponsored by the clinic (follow at your own discretion: http://mockvanews.ru/20374#more-20374 ) and is being invited for hour-long interviews about the “story of his success” by the leading radio stations all while speaking really badass Français ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdZuXBwpQ2s ).

More disconcerting, however, is the fact that all his own clinic has to offer apart from surgery is a combination of dutasteride with vitamins and LLLT ( http://www.ihc-russia.ru/programs/For_men/untitled.php ). Nothing else.
And the above mentioned www.thickhair.ru seems to be a completely separate entity and extremely shady at that too. I haven’t managed to find any outside information or discussion of it on Russian hairloss forums. It is advertised in all the wrong places (numerous Russian craiglists) by a message that is supposed to be written by a person so impressed with his own results (which are represented by a not so impressive pair of photographs) he just goes round recommending it to everyone ( http://www.eprivoz.ru/12347-vosstanavlivaem-volosyi-po-tehnologii-iz-izrailya-ot-yorama-benita/details.html ).

As for the www.thickhair.ru itself, they offer their treatment in three ways:

  1. As a do-it-yourself package of a DermaPen and “two to four months” supply of their compound for $300 (a DermaPen itself is ~$150 on eBay), which they are willing to send anywhere in Russia which is to say there is nothing stopping them from shipping it abroad if need be.
  2. As a $1200 therapy plan where they make hair counts before and after, you visit weekly for 8 procedures and then get the 1. package “to reinforce the results”.
  3. A $5000 (not a joke) “VIP” (again, not a joke) treat whereby the 16 twice-a-week procedures are carried out at a place and time of your choice by a team of nurses in sexy lingerie (apart from lingerie - not a joke still).

So basically they are offering the same thing for $300, $1200 and $5000 leaving the customer to decide whichever suits him best. Which, combined with the virtual absence of before/after pics (the pair in their shady advertisments and a very low-res pair on the site) screams of snakes and oil if we were to be perfectly honest with ourselves, does it not?

Which leaves me wondering whether or not we should inquire of Mr. Benitah a bit more about his DermaPen procedure. If this, the thickhair.ru site, is actually it. If he stands by it or would recommend it for the time being before his pilox project materialises. If there were clinical tests carried out for it. If, finally, it’s available elsewhere.

A couple of questions:

1) It doesn’t wound the skin? I thought in the patent it said it DOES wound the skin.

2) What version of Pilox does the recent patent refer to? Pilox II, III, IV, V?

3) It doesn’t use drugs? Huh?! What do you think a copper peptide is? Many drugs are peptides (ask Kane) and adding a copper ion to make it a cuprous or cupric peptide certainly still qualifies the substance as a DRUG in any reasonable physician’s, scientist’s, or regulator’s vocabulary. Also, zinc and zinc salts used for medical purposes are also considered as a DRUG. Is it a foreign chemical put on the body, into the body, or beneath the outer surface of the body, for medical purposes? Then it’s a drug.

I’m not saying it’s wrong or bad for them to use a DRUG… it certainly wouldn’t work without some kind of drug. But they can’t claim their device/process doesn’t use drugs because everything they’ve mentioned with the copper peptides, zinc salts, etc. qualifies very squarely as drugs.

I don’t care what anyone says, I still think that Follica is in the thick of things, behind the scenes, and has either filed a patent infringement lawsuit or is considering one, and that is precisely why there are so many different “versions” of Pilox, because they are trying to outmaneuver Follica and evade legal action.

I think you haven’t heard the whole story, only what this guy chose to tell you, along with his spin.

That’s precisely why you’re hearing so many different things from this guy, i.e., “We don’t use drugs” (to distinguish themselves from Follica); “We don’t wound the skin” – or whatever they’re saying – (again, to distinguish themselves from Follica)… “We have 5-6 different versions, all getting better and better” (again, to avoid/evade legal action by Follica).

Bottom line, the Follica patent is about wounding the skin with a device, adding some chemical and making hair grow. The Pilox patent is about wounding the skin with a device, adding some chemical (and an electric charge) and making hair grow.

You might not believe that’s enough for our friends at Follica to want to sue, but I can just about guarantee you it’s enough for Follica.

Of course you will NEVER hear Pilox or anyone associated with Pilox openly talk of lawsuits or threats of lawsuits, and you most likely won’t hear Follica talk about that subject openly either, until and unless it’s resolved in their favor.

brunobald, thank you very much for all that information.

Overall, I’m really not sure what to make of it. I guess I would say I’m cautiously interested in more information.

If you don’t mind, what was his wording when he stated that Pilox has no relation to dermarolling? The patent seems to indicate that it does. I know it’s for an earlier version, but it just seems odd that they would strike it so lucky get results from what must be in the end two different methods.

I wonder if he just means that the device uses a method for wounding slightly different than direct mechanical wounding (say electricity). In other words, the product may still be based on wounding.

I think your guess about Yoram requesting the photos be taken down is probably accurate. It sounds much more likely than the lawsuit theories.

The comment about no drugs is also a bit odd. Either it involves drugs or it is a purely mechanical process. I think it’s pretty unlikely he’s getting striking results from something purely mechanical.

Lastly, would it be possible to ask him what relation those two scientists have to the product? This question is source of a lot of speculation about this.

Anyway, I’m not all that confident, but it’ll be interesting to hear more.

The thing that I am starting to be curious about is that it appears that perhaps they went from Pilox 2 to Pilox 5. Why would they do that?

Did you see the results in that Pilox 2 catalog? They were great results. They were what I would call “breakthrough” results. So why didn’t they continue bringing Pilox 2 to market? Why did they abandon Pilox 2 and instead start over with new Pilox models?

They have delayed their profit-making and they have allowed other researchers to get their treatments closer to market. It seems to me that if they produced the results displayed in the Pilox 2 catalog they would have brought Pilox 2 to market asap.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by licht[/postedby]

I wonder if he just means that the device uses a method for wounding slightly different than direct mechanical wounding (say electricity). In other words, the product may still be based on wounding.

.[/quote]

This.

We know that both dermarolling AND lazer tatoo removal can cause hair growth. Wounding causes hair growth, some how.sometimes it causes a lot. I’ve seen a couple crazy tatoo removal pics showing a lot of growth. The question is why sometimes and not other times. Then the question becomes can u replicate the sometimes it does consistently

Its really not (at all, remotelh, whatsoever) surprising that somebody cracked the code finally.

The question now is when can we get this thing. The guy wanted the pics taken down for a reason, and its not because its snake oil.

roger_that if they really achieved the results displayed in the Pilox 2 catalog doesn’t it seem like they would have stopped there, brought the treatment to market, and made a ton of money rather than allowing their competitors a chance to get their treatments to market before Pilox comes to market?

You will say but their competitors, Aderans, Histogen, Follica, etc, all are falling by the wayside, but keep in mind that a few years ago nobody knew Histogen, Follica, Aderans, replical, etc, were all going to fall by the wayside? It is only recently that these companies started falling by the wayside. 2 years ago all of these companies looked pretty good, and so some anti-androgen CBA I think it’s called and so did Allergan’s bimatoprost. With all of these potential breakthroughs in the pipeline Pilox found a way to produce their breakthrough results using one of their earlier treatment models, Pilox 2, and then shelved it and started dilly-dallying by going back to the drawing board?!?!?

I don’t get it. Would you do that? If you owned Pilox 2 and produced the results in that catalog, and you saw these other breakthrough treatments coming to market, would you have trash-canned your pilox 2 and started Pilox 3 and then Pilox 4 and then Pilox 5? Aren’t they hurting themselves with these delays if their Pilox 2 results were legit?

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
A couple of questions:

1) It doesn’t wound the skin? I thought in the patent it said it DOES wound the skin.

2) What version of Pilox does the recent patent refer to? Pilox II, III, IV, V?

3) It doesn’t use drugs? Huh?! What do you think a copper peptide is? Many drugs are peptides (ask Kane) and adding a copper ion to make it a cuprous or cupric peptide certainly still qualifies the substance as a DRUG in any reasonable physician’s, scientist’s, or regulator’s vocabulary. Also, zinc and zinc salts used for medical purposes are also considered as a DRUG. Is it a foreign chemical put on the body, into the body, or beneath the outer surface of the body, for medical purposes? Then it’s a drug.

I’m not saying it’s wrong or bad for them to use a DRUG… it certainly wouldn’t work without some kind of drug. But they can’t claim their device/process doesn’t use drugs because everything they’ve mentioned with the copper peptides, zinc salts, etc. qualifies very squarely as drugs.

I don’t care what anyone says, I still think that Follica is in the thick of things, behind the scenes, and has either filed a patent infringement lawsuit or is considering one, and that is precisely why there are so many different “versions” of Pilox, because they are trying to outmaneuver Follica and evade legal action.

I think you haven’t heard the whole story, only what this guy chose to tell you, along with his spin.

That’s precisely why you’re hearing so many different things from this guy, i.e., “We don’t use drugs” (to distinguish themselves from Follica); “We don’t wound the skin” – or whatever they’re saying – (again, to distinguish themselves from Follica)… “We have 5-6 different versions, all getting better and better” (again, to avoid/evade legal action by Follica).

Bottom line, the Follica patent is about wounding the skin with a device, adding some chemical and making hair grow. The Pilox patent is about wounding the skin with a device, adding some chemical (and an electric charge) and making hair grow.

You might not believe that’s enough for our friends at Follica to want to sue, but I can just about guarantee you it’s enough for Follica.

Of course you will NEVER hear Pilox or anyone associated with Pilox openly talk of lawsuits or threats of lawsuits, and you most likely won’t hear Follica talk about that subject openly either, until and unless it’s resolved in their favor.[/quote]

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
A couple of questions:

1) It doesn’t wound the skin? I thought in the patent it said it DOES wound the skin.

2) What version of Pilox does the recent patent refer to? Pilox II, III, IV, V?

3) It doesn’t use drugs? Huh?! What do you think a copper peptide is? Many drugs are peptides (ask Kane) and adding a copper ion to make it a cuprous or cupric peptide certainly still qualifies the substance as a DRUG in any reasonable physician’s, scientist’s, or regulator’s vocabulary. Also, zinc and zinc salts used for medical purposes are also considered as a DRUG. Is it a foreign chemical put on the body, into the body, or beneath the outer surface of the body, for medical purposes? Then it’s a drug.

I’m not saying it’s wrong or bad for them to use a DRUG… it certainly wouldn’t work without some kind of drug. But they can’t claim their device/process doesn’t use drugs because everything they’ve mentioned with the copper peptides, zinc salts, etc. qualifies very squarely as drugs.

I don’t care what anyone says, I still think that Follica is in the thick of things, behind the scenes, and has either filed a patent infringement lawsuit or is considering one, and that is precisely why there are so many different “versions” of Pilox, because they are trying to outmaneuver Follica and evade legal action.

I think you haven’t heard the whole story, only what this guy chose to tell you, along with his spin.

That’s precisely why you’re hearing so many different things from this guy, i.e., “We don’t use drugs” (to distinguish themselves from Follica); “We don’t wound the skin” – or whatever they’re saying – (again, to distinguish themselves from Follica)… “We have 5-6 different versions, all getting better and better” (again, to avoid/evade legal action by Follica).

Bottom line, the Follica patent is about wounding the skin with a device, adding some chemical and making hair grow. The Pilox patent is about wounding the skin with a device, adding some chemical (and an electric charge) and making hair grow.

You might not believe that’s enough for our friends at Follica to want to sue, but I can just about guarantee you it’s enough for Follica.

Of course you will NEVER hear Pilox or anyone associated with Pilox openly talk of lawsuits or threats of lawsuits, and you most likely won’t hear Follica talk about that subject openly either, until and unless it’s resolved in their favor.[/quote]

The cure comes and all you can do is shoot it down?