New (possibly) ICX PDF

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
61

» I don’t think the black specks are injected cellular material, because I
» believe the cellular suspension being injected is CLEAR to the eye.

The “black” dots could be the puncture marks in the skin from the injections. Some dots seem to bleed and this could be from too deep injections.

62

» I don’t think the black specks are injected cellular material, because I
» believe the cellular suspension being injected is CLEAR to the eye.

So, the black specks are growing hairs and the first photo is NOT immediate post op!

63

» » I don’t think the black specks are injected cellular material, because I
» » believe the cellular suspension being injected is CLEAR to the eye.
»
» So, the black specks are growing hairs and the first photo is NOT
» immediate post op!

I think that’s likely, although I don’t know why Intercytex didn’t label the photos a bit more clearly.

64

Hey guys, I want this stuff to work more than anyone… but did anyone stop and think… maybe the “new hairs” were in a dormant phase in the first picture, but not in the second picture??? Hair has its cycles… maybe the “new” hairs were simply dormant in the first pic and growing in the second pic…

Does anyone have any thoughts on this??

65

» Hey guys, I want this stuff to work more than anyone… but did anyone stop
» and think… maybe the “new hairs” were in a dormant phase in the first
» picture, but not in the second picture??? Hair has its cycles… maybe
» the “new” hairs were simply dormant in the first pic and growing in the
» second pic…
»
» Does anyone have any thoughts on this??

What you said is based on the assumption that this part of the scalp (in the photos) already had a number of terminal hairs growing at a certain density. Look at the areas outside the circles. No visible terminal hairs.

Also, if what you said is true, it would be balanced out by terminal hairs going into telogen phase – and falling out at the end of their cycles – which is something that happens eventually to all terminal hairs, whether the person is balding or not. And in general, there is an equilibrium between dormant phase hairs changing to anagen phase, where they become visible terminal hairs – and the opposite – anagen terminal hairs going into telogen and falling out.

In a balding person, in fact, this “equilibrium” is tilted in favor of more and more terminal hairs going into telogen and staying there for longer and longer periods of time, while the anagen phase gets shorter and shorter, leading to hairs falling out after only a very short period in the anagen phase.

So, if these people are really bald or balding, and this hair growth isn’t from HM, what is it from? Why would so many dormant hairs suddenly be going into anagen and becoming terminal hairs all of a sudden, if this is not hM, but just normal cycling?

One would expect an equal number – or a greater than equal number – of hairs being LOST, in a balding person, during the same period of time.

66

» Hey guys, I want this stuff to work more than anyone… but did anyone stop
» and think… maybe the “new hairs” were in a dormant phase in the first
» picture, but not in the second picture??? Hair has its cycles… maybe
» the “new” hairs were simply dormant in the first pic and growing in the
» second pic…
»
» Does anyone have any thoughts on this??

What you said is based on the assumption that this part of the scalp (in the photos) already had a number of terminal hairs growing at a certain density. Look at the areas outside the circles. No visible terminal hairs.

Also, if what you said is true, it would be balanced out by terminal hairs going into telogen phase – and falling out at the end of their cycles – which is something that happens eventually to all terminal hairs, whether the person is balding or not. And in general, there is an equilibrium between dormant phase hairs changing to anagen phase, where they become visible terminal hairs – and the opposite – anagen terminal hairs going into telogen and falling out.

In a balding person, in fact, this “equilibrium” is tilted in favor of more and more terminal hairs going into telogen and staying there for longer and longer periods of time, while the anagen phase gets shorter and shorter, leading to hairs falling out after only a very short period in the anagen phase.

So, if these people are really bald or balding, and this hair growth isn’t from HM, what is it from? Why would so many dormant hairs suddenly be going into anagen and becoming terminal hairs all of a sudden, if this is not hM, but just normal cycling?

One would expect an equal number – or a greater than equal number – of hairs being LOST, in a balding person, during the same period of time.

67

What if the dark holes in the first photograph are the holes of the needle of the injections? This is quite optimistic, but who knows.

Cheers

68

» What if the dark holes in the first photograph are the holes of the needle
» of the injections? This is quite optimistic, but who knows.
»
» Cheers

That is what I am thinking as well. Not unlikely.

69

» » » I don’t think the black specks are injected cellular material, because
» I
» » » believe the cellular suspension being injected is CLEAR to the eye.
» »
» » So, the black specks are growing hairs and the first photo is NOT
» » immediate post op!
»
» I think that’s likely,

OK

» although I don’t know why Intercytex didn’t label
» the photos a bit more clearly.

CORRECT

70

I’ve looked at the photo over and over again and they look like buttons to me as oppose to some1’s scalp :slight_smile:

Nonetheless, for the 1st time we have seen NEW hair :slight_smile:

71

Hey everyone,

I looked at the photos. I remember Paul Kemp said he was one of the Phase I volunteers. He reportedly got 66 hairs from 100 injections. Now look at the before/after photos. I counted around… 66 new hairs!

I believe these photos show Paul Kemp’s scalp. Makes sense given he was the one giving the presentation, doesn’t it?

All the best,
BB

» I’m not sure if this is repeating information but there is a PDF on the
» Vavelta website from Kemps presentation at the FACE conference. I’ve not
» seen it before and I don’t recall seeing it posted. Lot’s of good stuff
» here, inlcuding a few tidbits about TRC (he confirms it is both
» rejuvenation AND Neo-Genesis), pictures of The Robot and so on.
»
» http://www.vavelta.com/vavelta/mp/story/vaveltaface/cell.pdf
»
» EDIT: On page 19, if I’m not mistaken are some photos. They are very
» close up. The two dark marks I think are the markers used on the Phase 1
» volunteers as has been mentioned before.
»
» So the next time some naysayer complains about photos please direct them
» to this.

72

For your reference (from hairsite.com):

“Among the 7 subjects that were enrolled for phase I, 5 reported an increase in hair numbers. Dr. Kemp, being one of the test subjects himself, reported an improvement of about 66 new hairs as a result of the 100 injections. Varying degree of hair regeneration was observed among the 5 participants who showed an improvement. Dr. Kemp’s results were considered average among the 5 participants. There were volunteers who actually reported greater increase in hair numbers than Dr. Kemp. It is unknown why 2 of the 7 participants did not show any improvement. One possible explanation is the timing of hair cycling.”

Interesting to think that these photos would show an AVERAGE improvement among those who grew hair… good lordy, are we saved?

All the best,
BB

» Hey everyone,
»
» I looked at the photos. I remember Paul Kemp said he was one of the Phase
» I volunteers. He reportedly got 66 hairs from 100 injections. Now look at
» the before/after photos. I counted around… 66 new hairs!
»
» I believe these photos show Paul Kemp’s scalp. Makes sense given he was
» the one giving the presentation, doesn’t it?
»
» All the best,
» BB
»
»
» » I’m not sure if this is repeating information but there is a PDF on the
» » Vavelta website from Kemps presentation at the FACE conference. I’ve
» not
» » seen it before and I don’t recall seeing it posted. Lot’s of good stuff
» » here, inlcuding a few tidbits about TRC (he confirms it is both
» » rejuvenation AND Neo-Genesis), pictures of The Robot and so on.
» »
» » http://www.vavelta.com/vavelta/mp/story/vaveltaface/cell.pdf
» »
» » EDIT: On page 19, if I’m not mistaken are some photos. They are very
» » close up. The two dark marks I think are the markers used on the Phase
» 1
» » volunteers as has been mentioned before.
» »
» » So the next time some naysayer complains about photos please direct
» them
» » to this.

73

Maybe I’m confused about the protocol… There was 1 square cm of hair removed from the back of a subjects head, this was allowed to multiply in a solution, and that solution was injected 1000 times back into the scalp. This grew 66 hairs?? Please tell me there was some solution left over for the rest of the head. Because if they only get 66 hairs for a square cm of donor scalp I’m F&$ked. I’m praying this stuff works so someone please tell me I’m understanding something wrong.

74

i’m not expert, just happened to see your post just now. so i’ll answer it quickly. no, they don’t do any of that primitive, barbaric hair transplant s**t. this is what they did in extremely simplified terms: 1. take ONE hair from the back of your head; 2. multiply that hair cell in a petri dish, so to speak; 3. inject it back in your scalp. so 100 new injections == 66 new hairs that were not there before. completely new, nothing lost or “moved around”.

as i always said: a hair transplant on a norwood 4-7 is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic…

…but hair multiplication is like a life raft, my friend.

okay i gotta go,
bb

» Maybe I’m confused about the protocol… There was 1 square cm of hair
» removed from the back of a subjects head, this was allowed to multiply in
» a solution, and that solution was injected 1000 times back into the scalp.
» This grew 66 hairs?? Please tell me there was some solution left over
» for the rest of the head. Because if they only get 66 hairs for a square
» cm of donor scalp I’m F&$ked. I’m praying this stuff works so someone
» please tell me I’m understanding something wrong.

75

Check out this link
http://www.intercytex.com/icx/products/aesthetic/icxtrc/

There’s a small picture on the right side of the page,click on the picture & it will explain everything.

76

No, BB, they do take a section of skin with hair – not just one hair!

However, the poster got the protocol completely wrong. Also he didn’t consider that the Phase I tests were for safety, not efficacy. They weren’t using an optimum protocol to maximize yield per injection. In Phase II, ICX will determine the best methods to generate the maximum numbers of hairs from the fewest injections. Still, HM will require a lot of injections to cover most people’s bald or balding areas.

77

» No, BB, they do take a section of skin with hair – not just one hair!
»
» However, the poster got the protocol completely wrong. Also he didn’t
» consider that the Phase I tests were for safety, not efficacy. They
» weren’t using an optimum protocol to maximize yield per injection. In
» Phase II, ICX will determine the best methods to generate the maximum
» numbers of hairs from the fewest injections. Still, HM will require a
» lot of injections to cover most people’s bald or balding areas.

I truly believe though that the next TRC generation will need no skin sections. I think it is a matter of time they turn into FUE.

78

» I truly believe though that the next TRC generation will need no skin
» sections. I think it is a matter of time they turn into FUE.

I think that, ultimately, the future generations of TRC will be allogenic as opposed to autologous.

There’s been a cascade of comments over the last couple of days, and I’d like to throw my hat into the ring on a few issues;

  1. I am totally convinced that the pictures are before and after. There is no way a reputable scientist is going to stand up in front of a conference of his peers and bullshit them. If it came out it would destroy the companies credibility, not to mention to be a violation of ethics. This isn’t even an issue.

  2. The TRC trial literature for Phase 2 stated that they DYE the hair, cut it short and then photograph it. If one assumes that they followed the same procedure for Phase 1 (and it is an assumption), then I think the small dark circular marks (not the tatoos) are the pores from which hair has effectively ceased to grow colured by the dye.

Anyway, the pictures are an interesting diversion until we get Phase 2 results.

79

» » I truly believe though that the next TRC generation will need no skin
» » sections. I think it is a matter of time they turn into FUE.
»
» I think that, ultimately, the future generations of TRC will be allogenic
» as opposed to autologous.
»
» There’s been a cascade of comments over the last couple of days, and I’d
» like to throw my hat into the ring on a few issues;
»
» 1) I am totally convinced that the pictures are before and after. There
» is no way a reputable scientist is going to stand up in front of a
» conference of his peers and bullshit them. If it came out it would
» destroy the companies credibility, not to mention to be a violation of
» ethics. This isn’t even an issue.
»
» 2) The TRC trial literature for Phase 2 stated that they DYE the hair, cut
» it short and then photograph it. If one assumes that they followed the
» same procedure for Phase 1 (and it is an assumption), then I think the
» small dark circular marks (not the tatoos) are the pores from which hair
» has effectively ceased to grow colured by the dye.
»

  1. e 2) could be, but -if so- the density is poor. what do you think?

» Anyway, the pictures are an interesting diversion until we get Phase 2
» results.

sure.

80

» » » I truly believe though that the next TRC generation will need no skin
» » » sections. I think it is a matter of time they turn into FUE.
» »
» » I think that, ultimately, the future generations of TRC will be
» allogenic
» » as opposed to autologous.
» »
» » There’s been a cascade of comments over the last couple of days, and
» I’d
» » like to throw my hat into the ring on a few issues;
» »
» » 1) I am totally convinced that the pictures are before and after.
» There
» » is no way a reputable scientist is going to stand up in front of a
» » conference of his peers and bullshit them. If it came out it would
» » destroy the companies credibility, not to mention to be a violation of
» » ethics. This isn’t even an issue.
» »
» » 2) The TRC trial literature for Phase 2 stated that they DYE the hair,
» cut
» » it short and then photograph it. If one assumes that they followed the
» » same procedure for Phase 1 (and it is an assumption), then I think the
» » small dark circular marks (not the tatoos) are the pores from which
» hair
» » has effectively ceased to grow colured by the dye.
» »
»
» 1) e 2) could be, but -if so- the density is poor. what do you think?
»
» » Anyway, the pictures are an interesting diversion until we get Phase 2
» » results.
»
» sure.

The density may be poor, but this is from only one session. We dont know if two or more injections will grow even more hair. Why shouldn´t it?

Vavelta is a two session procedure (pay one time and get two injection sessions a couple of weeks a apart), there is a possibility that icx-trc will be offered in the same way. Just a thought.