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» This is an honest representation of what a transplant can achieve in high
» norwood cases without propecia or avodart.
»
We should be greatful for the improved quality of pictures and videos. The demise of the dishonest picture was long overdue. When I started researching hair transplants 5 years ago, there were no honest pictures.
If you want ga ga pictures, stick to seeing those taken with flash or the blurry ones.
» » This is an honest representation of what a transplant can achieve in
» high
» » norwood cases without propecia or avodart.
» »
»
» We should be greatful for the improved quality of pictures and videos. The
» demise of the dishonest picture was long overdue. When I started
» researching hair transplants 5 years ago, there were no honest pictures.
» If you want ga ga pictures, stick to seeing those taken with flash or the
» blurry ones.
Absolutely!
» Well where shall I start? First off, I’m a Norwood 6 with average donor
» density and fine hair. This is why I doubt my results will be
» outstanding.
Hi piperz,
I’m new here so please excuse my ignorance.
Given that your posts are quite negative about the results of the HTs shown here and that you doubt you could get outstanding results, why would you even consider having a HT?
I heard about FUE and BHT a while back and came here to see what it was all about, but it seems that it is not a panacea for hair loss, so I don’t quite understand why people are having this done.
» No doctor is going to tell you this will be the result. This is why you
» only see pictures that show the best of the best
Simply put, I am saying that the majority of people who get an HT are satisfied. Do you disagree with this statement?
Now, before answering, remember this: you, too, are basing your opinion on “1/10 of 1% of hair transplant surgery,” right?
Hi Mr Happy,
There’s a difference between crappy results and not outstanding results. There is also a difference between body hair and scalp hair.
Said that, I get your point. The reason why I’m having this done anyway is that I’m realistic. I don’t expect to get all my hair back. Being realistic does not mean being dumb and not realizing when you are not a good candidate for HT.
I hope this guy knew what he was in for. Allegedly is happy with the results.
It would nice to hear from him. Leaving that aside, donor hair charateristics and scalp laxity make all the difference in thewporld when having STRIP surgery (provided that you go to a good doc that is)
» » i think the result is good for such fine hair + bht , as long as he
» keeps
» » his hair buzzed it will look great better than slick bald
»
» I don’t know about that, I think some people actually look better bald
» than having just barely enough hair on top to spot a combover. Just my
» opinions, cuz I think this guy didn’t look bad at all before the
» procedure.
i agree the guy should look natural, however he looks
a thin layer of hair over a bald crown looks unnatural
» I disagree. Anyone who actually sees Michael has no doubt that he looks
» much better.
»
» And the simple fact is people who like complaining or critisizng are
» likely to post far more often than others. Its the same everywhere.
»
» Dr Ray Woods
Of course you disagree, but it is really not the issue, and it is really none of our business, and it is really not up to the doc even, to decide who looks better bald or not bald, if the patient is satisfied, the doc did his job
this is a great job considering the hair to work with,
Bobman said the following in this thread.
“But going from a NW6+ to my current state it is possible to get the “full head of hair” result.”
Now, do people understand and know what a Norwood 6 is ?
It is a cue ball shiny head with an extemely limited donor, extending a couple of inches from the back of head , and around to the sides.
Is it possible to get enough hair from such a small donor to create a “full head of hair” ?.
Anything is possible. Countless people sit clutching their lottery tickets hoping to win the jackpot. And when someone wins, it is advertised and televised and promoted to the point that winning is as easy as buying a ticket.
Otherwise, I am pleased for bobman and congratulate H&W.
But to make NW 6/7 people think a full head of hair is 2 strips away…well, sensible comments would be welcome
And back to michael, he wanted the option to buzz cut his hair.
We could only take a few thousand donor.
His chest/abdo hair was short and weak, and in the circumstances, I believe it was a great result which has made him and those who care very happy.
Dr Ray Woods
It would be very nice to hear Hasson and Wong opinion on this one.
Can any spokeperson for this clinic reply to this message?
Dr Woods how do you think Bobman results were possible to achieve?
I saw an impressive number of results in the Hasson and Wong website that are even better than the ones achieved by Bobman (Joetronic and londonlad to name but a few)
It seems to me that Hasson and Wong have been consistently selling winning tickets over the years;-)
I still don’t understand your position on this issue. Are you basically telling us (NW5/6/7) to forget about having an HT because it would be useless?
Or is it just a matter of luck?
Are you saying that all we can and have to expect from this kind of cosmetic procedure is anything from mediocre to insufficient coverage of the scalp.
Are you saying that only one in hundred thousand patients get a good easthetic result?
According to what you said a NW6 should never undergo an hair transplant.
Mind you, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps you are just being honest.
If this is so… I would like to hear ohter clinics opinion on your statetment.
» It would be very nice to hear Hasson and Wong opinion on this one.
»
» Can any spokeperson for this clinic reply to this message?
»
»
» Dr Woods how do you think Bobman results were possible to achieve?
»
»
»
» I saw an impressive number of results in the Hasson and Wong website that
» are even better than the ones achieved by Bobman (Joetronic and londonlad
» to name but a few)
»
» It seems to me that Hasson and Wong have been consistently selling winning
» tickets over the years;-)
»
»
»
» I still don’t understand your position on this issue. Are you basically
» telling us (NW5/6/7) to forget about having an HT because it would be
» useless?
»
» Or is it just a matter of luck?
»
»
» Are you saying that all we can and have to expect from this kind of
» cosmetic procedure is anything from mediocre to insufficient coverage of
» the scalp.
»
» Are you saying that only one in hundred thousand patients get a good
» easthetic result?
»
» According to what you said a NW6 should never undergo an hair transplant.
»
»
» Mind you, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps you are just being
» honest.
»
» If this is so… I would like to hear ohter clinics opinion on your
» statetment.
Personally I think its insane for a high nw to get a hair transplant
to each his own i guess
» Now, do people understand and know what a Norwood 6 is ?
»
» It is a cue ball shiny head with an extemely limited donor, extending a
» couple of inches from the back of head , and around to the sides.
»
» Is it possible to get enough hair from such a small donor to create a
» “full head of hair” ?.
»
» Anything is possible. Countless people sit clutching their lottery tickets
» hoping to win the jackpot. And when someone wins, it is advertised and
» televised and promoted to the point that winning is as easy as buying a
» ticket.
I think that H&W’s ability to consistently create incredible results from individuals with NW6+ type hairloss patterns is why I chose them over anyone else. When you invest in the staff, time and attention and create a system of operation that works “for the patient” not for the convenience of the doctor’s schedule being that of 9am-5pm…then you get results that prove time and again like mine. I’m not much different than many of the mentors I watched go through the process, and the ones that followed after me. There is hope for the NW6+'s out there. Finding the doctors and the clinics that make the magic happen is something else. So, thank God for H&W…in my case. A couple of high quality strips can do wonders!
I usually do not write in on these things but feel that I would like to put my two cents in since I have had 6 surgeons- 5 who bothched me and One Dr Woods who is in the process of correcting me. First of all every hair transplant result depends on one important factor- Donor Dominance. Simple as that. If there is a norwood 6 like michael he had very little donor hair look carefully at the pictures. Bobman had much better donor and better hair charecteristics. I saw the Hasson & Wong website before going to Dr woods but some results are better than others- Again Donor Domininance. Whether it is scalp hair, Body or beard hair. The better the donor site is, the better the overall result. My results are still in their infancy and now thanks to Dr Woods I no longer have to wear a full cap wig which I was forced to do for 14 years. I personally never advice strip because the more you do, you then get a stripped scalp! I am living proof of it and have seen it in several cases. Now my results are slowly coming in but are not yet complete. I will have photos probally by june and will return to Dr Woods in late september/early october for my last surgeries. I beleive that michaels results are a reality in hair transplants and for many years I walked around much much worse looking. I think if he would have had strip surgery with his donor he would be showing scars. I would like to see more donor sites on Hasson & Wongs site. Also I have learned one thing- See people in person because all photos are just that photos. I think Dr Woods presented an honest case of a true norwood 6-7 with a very limited donor site. Good Job by him considering what he had to work with. Congrats Dr Woods for your honesty and professionlism.
The one thing that gets me about this thread is that there are a few references to the presented patient as being a “true” NW6 and a couple of references to Bobman as if he was NOT a “true” NW6.
Dr. Woods, I appreciate the work you have done for this patient but by your own definition of a true NW6, your patient is not. I plainly see finer hair on top of his scalp. But by the accepted definition of a NW6 he most definitely is, even more so. A NW6 still has hair in the parietal humps. Your patient does not, Bobman does.
I have seen not a single description of a requisite to be a “true” NW6 or NW7 as having a bald scalp that is “shiny” and devoid of any hair whatsoever. Even the hair loss chart above shows the strong hair loss patterns that the industry uses as a standard and each pattern shows even some residual hairs in these areas. As far as Bobman goes he is about as textbook as one can get and the fifteen baby hairs in the middle of his scalp hardly disqualifies his hair loss status.
The one thing that I do not appreciate with reference to Bobman is that he is a lottery winner of some sort. While his results are great he is not an anomaly and at no time will he lie to anyone and say that he has a full head of hair. He can have the APPEARANCE of a full head of hair with the right styling but he is not illusioned into thinking that he does and he does not try to mislead anyone about this either.
Neither do we. At best, we tell patients that they may have full coverage but not full density especially in the crown area and that they will look like their crown is thinning after they have two healthy strip sessions for a large number of grafts.
Like I said, Bobman is not only not an anomaly, he is one of many. We have dozens of patients that do not share online and some that are do so in a limited fashion in our gallery that have had results that are full(ish) after two and even sometimes one surgery. Advanced hair loss patients will always have a crown that is thinner and a front that is fuller but in many cases they can be covered adequately to where being bald is a thing of the past. I can speak of this from personal experience.
Hi Melonhead,
I appreciate all that you have said and have pondered over the H&W phenomenon. The problem as I see it is that H&W seem to defy the current wisdom an experience of the rest of the industry. It seems that H&W promise (and supply) good coverage of an NW5 (and sometimes NWVI) without apparent traumatic depletion of the donor area of the scalp, and without excessively wide strip scars. The significance artistry of H&W is a different issue.
The problem is that we find this difficult to believe, even with the good presentations produced by the company. I still cannot understand what is so technically different about H&W that enables what seems to be such improved results compared with others. Maybe we haven’t been looking widely enough and there may be others that produce similar results. Maybe the graft survival of others is not what is advertised. Maybe H&W only take (or demonstrate)the easy cases. The point is that if a company is at odds with the rest of the industry then it has a very big burden of proof or justification to be widely accepted or it will naturally meet with resistance and scepticism especially amongst other experts!!!
. First off like poster diamond said it is all about donor dominance. Bobman no matter nw6 or not has had more head donor to transplant and his charecteristics are greater than Michaels. Bobman close to 9000 grafts. Micheal 2500 head hair grafts. The 6000 bh were fine and he had to use them because that is all he had. Plus his goal was to be able to buzz. There is no way Michael could get that amount of head hair grafts no matter who he went to. So you can not compare. Great result for Bobman. Michaels is a fine result and he is able to add density further. Will it look as thick as Bobmans? No. The patients are both happy and that is all that counts. I still think some of you are not getting out there and really seeing a large variety of ht’s to see exactly what they can do.
Well therein lies the problem and I alluded to it in my previous post. The Woods patient is not a NW6. He has lost his parietal humps and his crown is recessed further down but it is not so much further down than Bob’s as the photos that Duck presented would suggest. If you were to shave Bob’s hair down in the back you would see that the loss would appear more recessed down in the crown than what you see in the photo.
Regardless, I don’t think Dr. Woods was trying to compare 6500 body hair to the same number of head hairs. It would be foolish to try as they are simply not the same and it would take far more body hairs to equal the visual result of head hair. Head hair is king and it always will be. Even if the visual result of coverage were the same the result would not be the same because body hair simply does not have the same high quality.
And for the record, Bob has about 7800 grafts from hairline to crown, not 9000. He had an additional 700 to reconstruct temple points but they are not represented in any photos yet as they have not had time to grow in.
Sorry about that. Just was reading his numbers from hlh. 4,849 Grafts (Front & Top)
Dr. Hasson - September, 23rd 2004!
2,955 Grafts (Crown)
Dr. Hasson - June, 23rd 2005!
671 - (Temples) With Tri-Closure
Dr. Hasson - November, 6th 2007!
Total = 8,475 Grafts !!! And this was my only point.“Regardless, I don’t think Dr. Woods was trying to compare 6500 body hair to the same number of head hairs. It would be foolish to try as they are simply not the same and it would take far more body hairs to equal the visual result of head hair. Head hair is king and it always will be. Even if the visual result of coverage were the same the result would not be the same because body hair simply does not have the same high quality.”
Excelent job Dr. Woods,
i think the comments in this thread just show how it is often body dismorphism that drives us to believe that hair on our head will make us better looking. We can see it in others but rarely in ourselves.
This patient recieved 8000ish grafts in total and it is clear that twice this ammount would give a good fullish effect. 15000 is the number that Dr. Umar planted on heliboy and the results are in that sence comparable. This is not surprising considering that many of the BH grafts are single hair.
How do you feel about implanting two BH in one slot or do you believe it is better to more closely pack sinle hairs in multiple sessions.
I think this result showed great artistry with the number used and if he wants he can buzz down somewhat.
(woops! I just bit my toungue off trying not to mention price. 
)
» This patient recieved 8000ish grafts in total and it is clear that twice
» this ammount would give a good fullish effect. 15000 is the number that
» Dr. Umar planted on heliboy and the results are in that sence comparable.
» This is not surprising considering that many of the BH grafts are single
» hair.
If you ask me, dr woods’ yield is far better than Umar.
Many years ago, before the internet, when speaking to patients from far far away places on the phone I would use what I referred to as a ‘Baldness/Donor Ratio’ (BDR).
I would ask patients to use the palm of their hand and use it as a rough measure, placing it over the bald area and the donor.
An extremely rough ratio would be envisaged.
Eg. 2 palms balding area/3 palms donor. Or 2:3
Other parameters are:
With the advent of the internet and immediate photos sent, and the development of body hair, I never pursed the BDR (Baldness/Donor Ratio) classification as a means of trying to understand what is going on.
After all, photos should tell the whole story, together with the Norwood Scale.
But obviously, there is some confusion here, with assessing and comparing Michael and Bobman.
So I am resurrecting the BDR, suggest that using a thin cloth, paper or even plastic with a marker, one can ROUGHLY trace out the relative balding and donor area. It is at least more accurate than the palm.
Now I know that Michael’s balding area is at least TWICE the size of his donor. The balding area/donor area ratio is 2:1, or just call it 2.
So Michael is:
BDR 2/ sd FINE/ dd MEDIUM/ cc medium/ pe zero
Now, I have not seen Bobman in person, but from the photos, I think the balding area and donor areas are roughly the same., a 1:1 ratio., or if you like, BDR 1.
So Bobman is probably:
BDR 1/ sd COARSE / dd DENSE/ cc medium/ pe zero to sparse.
I find thinking in terms of the BDR classification helpful because it accounts for different head shapes.
The Norwood scale gives an overall guide, but it shows only one head shape, and as we have seen here, there are countless variations of shape and donor which ultimately determines what is and is not possible.
Dr Ray Woods
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