It’s pretty obvious that we could probably get back a lot of hair quickly.
If by quickly you mean before the year 2100. Your are probably right.
By quick I mean by fall 2015. Maybe even by summer 2015.
I widh but I think you are completely wrong.
50 years is my bet.
And how do you think you’re gonna grow your hair back?
I wish I could share your optimism, but I think our best hope at the moment is Angela Christiano. Last year she said human trials for her protocol were 3-5 years away. (That’s 2-4 years now.) But even if they conduct those trials in two years, that doesn’t mean they’re gonna be successful. And even if they are successful, it would probably take some time for a product to hit the market.
I don’t think we’re gonna see a product that works in the next 5-10 years. (And I don’t think the first products we’re gonna see will be perfect. If you look like Telly Savalas and want to have hair like Lenny Kravitz, you’ll probably have to wait 20 years or more…)
But that’s just my guess. I’m happy for anyone to prove me wrong.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by News[/postedby]
And how do you think you’re gonna grow your hair back?
I wish I could share your optimism, but I think our best hope at the moment is Angela Christiano. Last year she said human trials for her protocol were 3-5 years away. (That’s 2-4 years now.) But even if they conduct those trials in two years, that doesn’t mean they’re gonna be successful. And even if they are successful, it would probably take some time for a product to hit the market.
I don’t think we’re gonna see a product that works in the next 5-10 years. (And I don’t think the first products we’re gonna see will be perfect. If you look like Telly Savalas and want to have hair like Lenny Kravitz, you’ll probably have to wait 20 years or more…)
But that’s just my guess. I’m happy for anyone to prove me wrong.
:-)[/quote]
I agree.
5 years ago I thought we had a chance at something sooner but not now. Aderans has failed and everyone else has turned out to be even less progressed than they ever were.
Jahoda & Christiano’s work may completely solve MPB once and for all. But I don’t see that possibly going commercial before 2025-2030.
I think most of us are very discouraged by the lack of progress. I am looking at 5-10 years the earliest.
I am definitely right.
We could do this right now:
It’s basically nature’s own version of Histogen and maybe even better because nature made it instead of it being synthesized by some company.
Here’s the proof:
You are definitely wrong. There is nothing stopping us from setting up an AAPE/HARG clinic in The Bahamas except our own gumption and willingness.
Nope1 You’re wrong. This could be set-up in less than a year in The Bahamas:
Posters keep complaining about FDA, scientists, and big companies but we don’t need any FDA, major researchers, or big companies to accomplish what we want to accomplish. All we need is the will and the gumption to take advantage of what’s already available. There’s nothing stopping us from solving the problem except ourselves. We could set up and AAPE/HARG clinic in The Bahamas in less than a year. It’s Histogen but even better.
The photos in the article look certaintly amazing.
Will that treatment be availablej in a near future? Somehow I doubt it but I hope I am completely wrong.
jarjar you said this kind of stuff two years ago already.
Hairman2, I saw your photos from the HT in Cyprus (immediately post-op) and the work looked pretty professional. Just curious to know if the final results turned out well. Also, I assume you had the work in Cyprus because the price was better than in Germany but the reputation of the doctors just as good?
Anyway, good luck with it and I hope it ends up looking fine.
Regarding Jarjar, he wasn’t talking about AAPE last year. This is something new.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
jarjar you said this kind of stuff two years ago already.[/quote]
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I wasn’t talking about the same treatment 2 years ago
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And when I did talk about treatments 2 years ago I think I said better treatment would be available about 2015, which admittedly will not turn out to be correct. I was talking about Histogen at that time. Histogen still holds promise, if you do follow-up repeat treatments, but for some reason it’s in limbo status. It may come to market but it won’t come to market by 2015. But at no time 2 years ago did I say that a potential breakthrough treatment might be obtainable at that very moment. So my new claim is different because now I’m claiming that a potential breakthrough treatment could be available (in the right situation) at this very moment, and we could obtain it inside of 1 year.
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The other treatment I’m talking about, AAPE/HARG, is very similar to Histogen, although it might actually be better than Histogen because it’s nature’s own version of Histogen, plus it may contain some hair growth factors/proteins that are not inside of Histogen.
Hairman you can gripe about me all you want but in my estimation I’ve only said two truly nonsensical silly-ass things.
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That we could possibly get the FDA to allow early use of a treatment based on the “Compassionate Use” protocol. They’re just not going to do it over a cosmetic condition. I think that all cosmetic conditions are not the same and the FDA should consider “Compassionate Use” for more serious cosmetic conditions but I admit that it was very unrealistic for me to think that the FDA might allow "Compassionate Use for a cosmetic condition. It was a foolish idea.
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It was also foolish when I suggested filing a patent for the use of a hairnet (along with some therapeutic ingredients) to grow hair. You were right when you snickered at that idea.
I admit that both of these ideas were silly nonsense. But my idea about AAPE/HARG is not as weak as those other 2 ideas. My idea about AAPE/HARG is a much better idea. I’m not 100% sure that it’s doable because Roger has raised the issue that AAPE/HARG might not be obtainable beyond experimental usage, but that might not be the case EVERYWHERE. New laws in The Bahamas allow commercial use of cultured embryonic stem cells, and that technology is even more controlled everywhere else than merely culturing adipose stem cells and harvesting extracts from the same. I think that since the new laws in The Bahamas allow commercial embryonic stem cell practices those same laws would likely also allow us to do AAPE/HARG treatments in The Bahamas. I also think that if the Bahamaian law would allow AAPE to be performed in The Bahamas then the South Korean company that manufacturers AAPE would probably sell AAPE to a doctor who practices in The Bahamas. As long as it’s legal business doesn’t typically refuse to sell its’ own product to a potential buyer.
My idea about AAPE/HARG is good enough idea that we should evaluate the idea before discarding it.
Jarjar who would set up a clinic in Bahamas? First of all a doctor needs to set up an office in Bahamas. The only doctor that would be willing is dr Nigam other than that I don’t think anyone wants to just set up an office in Bahamas and take a risk
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
Hairman2, I saw your photos from the HT in Cyprus (immediately post-op) and the work looked pretty professional. Just curious to know if the final results turned out well. Also, I assume you had the work in Cyprus because the price was better than in Germany but the reputation of the doctors just as good?
Anyway, good luck with it and I hope it ends up looking fine.
Regarding Jarjar, he wasn’t talking about AAPE last year. This is something new.[/quote]
You know Roger, this info has been out in public for some time. Now that I think about it, I’d seen this info before. I just blew it off because I wasn’t aware of enough compelling evidence supporting the idea of adipose stem cell secretions promoting hair growth. But over the years I’ve learnt things that have convinced me that these secretions are our ticket to a good amount of hair. Let me tell you the things that have convince me of this:
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The AAPE study that we are talking about.
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There’s a second study that only involved female subjects showed that AAPE in combination with micro-needling grows hair.
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Histogen and AAPE are very similar and a single treatment date of Histogen grows hair. And if patients get repeat Histogen treatments they get better results. Keep in mind that if anything AAPE is better than Histogen because while both treatments are very similar AAPE is nature’s own version of the treatment and AAPE may also include more growth factors/proteins than Histogen does.
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Yale University study involving adipose stem cells proved that adipose stem cells do produce the growth factors/proteins that prompt hair to grow. And that is exactly what AAPE is - AAPE is the very growth factors and proteins that Yale University says provide the signal for follicles to grow hair. In other words, Yale University has established that the science behind AAPE is exactly what we need.
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Dr. Aaron Gardner works on Team Jahoda. Dr. Gardner posted at a different site that the Jahoda team will be using adipose stem cells in their protocols. Team Jahoda is not adding adipose stem cells because there’s something about the lining of those cells that grows hair. No. Team Jahoda is adding adipose stem cells to their protocols as a means to get AAPE into their lab hair follicles. By adding adipose stem cells, Team Jahoda is telling us that they believe that AAPE grows hair. That’s why Team Jahoda is adding AAPE (in the form of the cells that produce and excrete AAPE) into their lab hair follicles.
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Other teams are now also starting to add adipose stem cells to their hair protocols. And why are they doing this? They are adding adipose stem cells in an attempt to get AAPE into their lab hair follicles. They know these cells secrete AAPE, and they want these cells to excrete AAPE into their lab follicles, and that’s why researchers are adding adipose stem cells into their hair protocols.
I’ve seen videos about AAPE before on YouTube… starting around 2-3 years ago at least, but it was never for hair loss. It was just clinics around the world advertising use of adipose-derived stem cell injections for various diseases. It always seemed to have a feeling of not being entirely legit, and possibly being a big sc@m. So, I never thought about applying it to hair, because there are actually a lot of stem cell sc@m operations out there around the world.
Come to think of it, I did see one video somewhere a while back of a company in Scotland advertising AAPE for hair. But it seemed very sc@mmish, so I just ignored it. The thing that got me really excited, though, was the photos in that journal article.
A quick Google search will find a lot of weird stuff out there, even companies in the US claiming to be using adipose-derived stem cells for hair loss, so the situation, even within the US, is a lot more complicated and jumbled than people here on HairSite might think… This is a new emerging technology and I think it’s being deployed excitedly in a lot of places.
Look at this:
“New England Stem Cell Treatment Center, an affiliate of the Cell Surgical Network , uses adipose derived stem cells, commonly known as Stromal Vascular Fraction (SVF) and non embryonic/adult mesenchymal stem cells, for deployment & clinical research… Early stem cell research has traditionally been associated with the controversial use of embryonic stem cells. The new focus is on non-embryonic adult mesenchymal stem cells, which are found in a person’s own blood, bone marrow, and fat. Most stem cell treatment centers in the world are currently using stem cells derived from bone marrow.”
I ignored it at first too because they were talking about adipose cell growth factors and it sounded like bs. But now it’s proved that adipose stem cell growth factors are not bs. Yale is backing the idea and so is Jahoda. And I’m hearing more and more that credible researchers are looking at the growth factors inside of adipose stem cells.
And I think that it may be best to use the AAPR rather than the adipose stem cells themselves because the cells may not be able to get into every key nook and cranny that they would have to get into in order to be effective. I’ve seen diagram pics of follicles that show adipose cells snuggling right up into the follicles but adipose cells injected into the scalp may not be able to squeeze into all of the correct places due to size, shape and substance. On the other hand, AAPE is the liquid extract from these cells so it can get into every nook and cranny necessary. I think that the AAPE extract is the more certain way to go.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by mm12[/postedby]
Jarjar who would set up a clinic in Bahamas? First of all a doctor needs to set up an office in Bahamas. The only doctor that would be willing is dr Nigam other than that I don’t think anyone wants to just set up an office in Bahamas and take a risk[/quote]
Well if Dr. Nigam is the only one maverick enough to give it a go then we should be talking with him about it. The alternative is to wait 5 - 10 years for other researchers to bring it to market. And by the way, the other researchers are going to charge a heck of a lot more money because they are doing the same thing but in a much more involved and complex manner. Check this out:
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If you inject AAPE then you simply inject the AAPE throughout the scalp say three or four times over two months. The AAPE enlarges your shrunken follicles and the hairs get longer and thicker and they grow from out of your already existing follicles so they grow out in the same angle and direction that they grew out before baldness struck.
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If you do it the Jahoda way you use DP cells to create 10’s of thousands of new follicles in the lab, add fat cells so they can secrete necessary growth factors into the follicles, then inject 10’s of thousands of lab grown follicles into the patient’s head. So this is like a very space-age, labor-intensive hair transplant and the result is still going to be largely dependent on the artistic skill of the surgeon plus some luck.
It looks like the treatment may already be available if you set up the acquisition of the treatment correctly. The company that produces it can only send it to doctors in certain geographical locations. But the treatment is injected so patients could fly into that location, get the treatment injected, and then leave with the treatment in the skin doing its’ job.