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Vitamin D and Testosterone Study. Bad News for Hair Loss?


#1

Up until now there have been no studies done on humans with regard to vitD and changes in T levels.

This first one at first glance appears to be bad news for hair loss sufferers.

Increased T, lower SHBG and Increased Free Androgen Index (FAI), all the things that increase hair loss.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?

Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2009 Dec 29. [Epub ahead of print]

Association of vitamin D status with serum androgen levels in men.
Wehr E, Pilz S, Boehm BO, März W, Obermayer-Pietsch B.

Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Nuclear Medicine, Medical University Graz, Graz, Austria.

Abstract Objective: Studies in rodents indicate a role of vitamin D in male reproduction but the relationship between vitamin D and androgen levels in men is largely unexplored. We aimed to investigate the association of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] levels with testosterone, FAI (free androgen index), and SHBG. Moreover, we examined whether androgen levels show a similar seasonal variation to 25(OH)D. Design: In this cross-sectional study, 25(OH)D, testosterone, and SHBG levels were assessed by immunoassay in 2299 men who were routinely referred for coronary angiography (1997-2000). Measurements: Main outcome measures were associations of 25(OH)D levels with testosterone, SHBG, and FAI. FAI was calculated as testosterone (nmol/l)/SHBG (nmol/l) x 100. Results: Men with sufficient 25(OH)D levels (>/=30 mug/l) had significantly higher levels of testosterone and FAI and significantly lower levels of SHBG when compared to 25(OH)D insufficient (20-29.9 mug/l) and 25(OH)D deficient (<20 mug/l) men (p<0.05 for all). In linear regression analyses adjusted for possible confounders, we found significant associations of 25(OH)D levels with testosterone, FAI, and SHBG levels (p<0.05 for all). 25(OH)D, testosterone, and FAI levels followed a similar seasonal pattern with a nadir in March (12.2 mug/l, 15.9 nmol/l, and 40.8, respectively) and peak levels in August (23.4 mug/l, 18.7 nmol/l, and 49.7, respectively) (p<0.05 for all). Conclusion: Androgen levels and 25(OH)D levels are associated in men and reveal a concordant seasonal variation. Randomized controlled trials are warranted to evaluate the effect of vitamin D supplementation on androgen levels.


#2

» Up until now there have been no studies done on humans with regard to vitD
» and changes in T levels.
»
» This first one at first glance appears to be bad news for hair loss
» sufferers.
»
» Increased T, lower SHBG and Increased Free Androgen Index (FAI), all
» the things that increase hair loss
.
»
» http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?
»
» Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2009 Dec 29. [Epub ahead of print]
»
» Association of vitamin D status with serum androgen levels in men.
» Wehr E, Pilz S, Boehm BO, März W, Obermayer-Pietsch B.
»
» Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Nuclear
» Medicine, Medical University Graz, Graz, Austria.
»
» Abstract Objective: Studies in rodents indicate a role of vitamin D in
» male reproduction but the relationship between vitamin D and androgen
» levels in men is largely unexplored. We aimed to investigate the
» association of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] levels with testosterone, FAI
» (free androgen index), and SHBG. Moreover, we examined whether androgen
» levels show a similar seasonal variation to 25(OH)D. Design: In this
» cross-sectional study, 25(OH)D, testosterone, and SHBG levels were assessed
» by immunoassay in 2299 men who were routinely referred for coronary
» angiography (1997-2000). Measurements: Main outcome measures were
» associations of 25(OH)D levels with testosterone, SHBG, and FAI. FAI was
» calculated as testosterone (nmol/l)/SHBG (nmol/l) x 100. Results: Men
» with sufficient 25(OH)D levels (>/=30 mug/l) had significantly higher
» levels of testosterone and FAI and significantly lower levels of SHBG when
» compared to 25(OH)D insufficient (20-29.9 mug/l) and 25(OH)D deficient (<20
» mug/l) men (p<0.05 for all). In linear regression analyses adjusted for
» possible confounders, we found significant associations of 25(OH)D levels
» with testosterone, FAI, and SHBG levels (p<0.05 for all). 25(OH)D,
» testosterone, and FAI levels followed a similar seasonal pattern with a
» nadir in March (12.2 mug/l, 15.9 nmol/l, and 40.8, respectively) and peak
» levels in August (23.4 mug/l, 18.7 nmol/l, and 49.7, respectively) (p<0.05
» for all). Conclusion: Androgen levels and 25(OH)D levels are associated in
» men and reveal a concordant seasonal variation. Randomized controlled
» trials are warranted to evaluate the effect of vitamin D supplementation on
» androgen levels.

In men, DHT levels tends to rise at the same time that Estradiol starts to increase and perhaps DHEA levels decline.

Regards
Pete


#3

» » Up until now there have been no studies done on humans with regard to
» vitD
» » and changes in T levels.
» »
» » This first one at first glance appears to be bad news for hair loss
» » sufferers.
» »
» » Increased T, lower SHBG and Increased Free Androgen Index (FAI), all
» » the things that increase hair loss
.
» »
» » http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?
» »
» » Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2009 Dec 29. [Epub ahead of print]
» »
» » Association of vitamin D status with serum androgen levels in men.
» » Wehr E, Pilz S, Boehm BO, März W, Obermayer-Pietsch B.
» »
» » Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Nuclear
» » Medicine, Medical University Graz, Graz, Austria.
» »
» » Abstract Objective: Studies in rodents indicate a role of vitamin D in
» » male reproduction but the relationship between vitamin D and androgen
» » levels in men is largely unexplored. We aimed to investigate the
» » association of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] levels with testosterone,
» FAI
» » (free androgen index), and SHBG. Moreover, we examined whether androgen
» » levels show a similar seasonal variation to 25(OH)D. Design: In this
» » cross-sectional study, 25(OH)D, testosterone, and SHBG levels were
» assessed
» » by immunoassay in 2299 men who were routinely referred for coronary
» » angiography (1997-2000). Measurements: Main outcome measures were
» » associations of 25(OH)D levels with testosterone, SHBG, and FAI. FAI
» was
» » calculated as testosterone (nmol/l)/SHBG (nmol/l) x 100. Results:
» Men
» » with sufficient 25(OH)D levels (>/=30 mug/l) had significantly higher
» » levels of testosterone and FAI and significantly lower levels of SHBG
» when
» » compared to 25(OH)D insufficient (20-29.9 mug/l) and 25(OH)D deficient
» (<20
» » mug/l) men (p<0.05 for all). In linear regression analyses adjusted for
» » possible confounders, we found significant associations of 25(OH)D
» levels
» » with testosterone, FAI, and SHBG levels (p<0.05 for all). 25(OH)D,
» » testosterone, and FAI levels followed a similar seasonal pattern with a
» » nadir in March (12.2 mug/l, 15.9 nmol/l, and 40.8, respectively) and
» peak
» » levels in August (23.4 mug/l, 18.7 nmol/l, and 49.7, respectively)
» (p<0.05
» » for all). Conclusion: Androgen levels and 25(OH)D levels are associated
» in
» » men and reveal a concordant seasonal variation. Randomized controlled
» » trials are warranted to evaluate the effect of vitamin D supplementation
» on
» » androgen levels.

»
»
» In men, DHT levels tends to rise at the same time that Estradiol starts to
» increase and perhaps DHEA levels decline.
»
»
»
» Regards
» Pete

An area that seems to get overlooked is stress response.

When you look at alot of the posts on these hairloss boards they tend to be from people who are quite anxious or stressed about the condition. No amount of supplements will help with this issue.

Regards
Pete


#4

» Up until now there have been no studies done on humans with regard to vitD
» and changes in T levels.
»
» This first one at first glance appears to be bad news for hair loss
» sufferers.
»
» Increased T, lower SHBG and Increased Free Androgen Index (FAI), all
» the things that increase hair loss
.

From my experience, “increased T” (via vitamin D, tocotrienols) is a good thing; unlike, increased E (via phytoestrogens), especially as men grow older.

For me, increased T provides an increase in energy and libido levels, as well as thicker hair. No doubt about it.


#5

» In men, DHT levels tends to rise at the same time that Estradiol
» starts to increase and perhaps DHEA levels decline.

Where on earth did you hear THAT, Pete? Do you have a reference or citation to back that up? :slight_smile:


#6

» For me, increased T provides an increase in energy and libido levels,
» as well as thicker hair. No doubt about it.

I have a TREMENDOUS amount of doubt about that claim! :slight_smile:

All other things being equal, of course, why on earth would higher levels of testosterone provide thicker scalp hair?


#7

» » For me, increased T provides an increase in energy and libido levels,
» » as well as thicker hair. No doubt about it.
»
» I have a TREMENDOUS amount of doubt about that claim! :slight_smile:
»
» All other things being equal, of course, why on earth would higher levels
» of testosterone provide thicker scalp hair?

Tocotrienols, vitamin D, and nettles are purported to increase testosterone production:

  1. http://www.tocotrienol.org/en/index/news/73.html
  2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?
  3. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html

And they are used to treat hair loss:

  1. http://www.regrowhair.com/non-surgical-hair-loss-treatments/vitamin-e-for-hair-loss/
  2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1876678/
  3. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25372.php
  4. "Nettles, (Urtica dioica) from the family Urticaceae is also referred to as Stinging Nettle, Common Nettle and Greater Nettle. Nettle plants grow 2 to three feet tall, bearing dark green leaves with serrated margins and small flowers covered with tiny hairs on the leaves and stems. When brushed, Nettles can inject an irritant into any skin that comes into contact with the plant.

This stinging reaction is caused by the plant hairs injecting a compound containing formic acid, histamine, Serotonin, acetylcholine, 5-hydroxytryptamine and other irritants. This stinging activity is lost when the plant is dried or cooked, and the tender tops of young first-growth nettles are especially delicious and nutritious.

Found all over the world, Nettles have been used as a vegetable and folk remedy for centuries. Collected before flowering, Nettles were thought useful as a treatment for asthma, as an expectorant, antispasmodic, diuretic, astringent, and tonic. Applying an extract of Nettles to the scalp was said to stimulate hair growth, and chronic rheumatism was treated by placing nettle leaves directly on to the afflicted area.

The Nettle has a long history of use. The tough fibers from the stem have been used to make cloth and cooked nettle leaves were eaten as vegetables. From ancient Greece to the present, nettle has been documented for its traditional use in treating coughs, tuberculosis, and arthritis and in stimulating hair growth.

Nettles are rich in chlorophyll and young cooked nettle shoots, when cooked, are not only edible but are an excellent source of beta carotene, vitamin C, vitamin E and minerals, especially silica.

In one study, Swiss researchers R. Hartmann et al. demonstrate that extracts of pygeum (Pygeum africanum Kalkman, Rosaceae) and nettle root (Urtica dioica L., Urticaceae) partially blocked the action of two enzymes involved in the body’s production of dihydrotestosterone and estrogen. The in vitro (laboratory) study showed that both pygeum and nettle root extracts were effective in inhibiting these two enzymes (5alpha-reductase and aromatase) and that a combination of the two plant extracts was significantly more effective than either extract individually in blocking aromatase activity.

Nettle root extract was effective only at high concentrations, while pygeum extract showed “a much higher efficacy” at lower doses. The combination of the two extracts (Prostatonin®) was as effective as pygeum against 5 a-reductase and significantly more effective than either against aromatase. This study supports the use of combinations of these two ingredients in the treatment of BPH. This is especially important because pygeum bark is both expensive and limited in supply, while nettle roots are easily produced on a large scale.

There are several clinical studies documenting the efficacy of nettle root for BPH. Dr. Varro E. Tyler reported on a paper from the 1995 Congress on Medicinal Plant Research that J.J. Lichius and colleagues showed a reduction in prostatic growth potential in mice with the administration of a high dosage of nettle root extract.

Another study using saw palmetto berries and nettle root extracts to treat patients with BPH showed an inhibition of the testosterone metabolites dihydrotestosterone and estrogen, thus proving to be an effective treatment. Some of the more resent research on BPH and Nettles show that Nettles can interfere or block a chemical process in the body that has been linked to prostate disorders. As men age, free-floating testosterone becomes bound to albumin in a process called human sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), removing its bioavailability to the body.

This chemical process is now believed to be linked to prostate disorders. In several clinical studies, nettles has demonstrated the ability to block this process which may well explain its documented effectiveness in the treatment of many prostate conditions. Since testosterone is a natural aphrodisiac, and nettles makes more testosterone bioavailable for the body’s use by blocking SHBG, this may also explain why nettles has recently been regarded with aphrodisiac properties.

Adverse effects from consuming nettle tea can range from upset stomach to burning sensations in the skin, difficulty in urination and bloating.

Although allergic reactions to nettle are rare, when contact is made with the skin, fresh nettle can cause a rash secondary to the noted stings."

:smiley:


#8

» » » For me, increased T provides an increase in energy and libido levels,
» » » as well as thicker hair. No doubt about it.
» »
» » I have a TREMENDOUS amount of doubt about that claim! :slight_smile:
» »
» » All other things being equal, of course, why on earth would higher
» levels
» » of testosterone provide thicker scalp hair?
»
»
» Tocotrienols, vitamin D, and nettles are purported to increase
» testosterone production:
»
» 1. http://www.tocotrienol.org/en/index/news/73.html
» 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?
» 3. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html
»
»
» And they are used to treat hair loss:
»
» 1.
» http://www.regrowhair.com/non-surgical-hair-loss-treatments/vitamin-e-for-hair-loss/
» 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1876678/
» 3. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25372.php
» 4. “Nettles, (Urtica dioica) from the family Urticaceae is also referred
» to as Stinging Nettle, Common Nettle and Greater Nettle. Nettle plants grow
» 2 to three feet tall, bearing dark green leaves with serrated margins and
» small flowers covered with tiny hairs on the leaves and stems. When
» brushed, Nettles can inject an irritant into any skin that comes into
» contact with the plant.
»
» This stinging reaction is caused by the plant hairs injecting a compound
» containing formic acid, histamine, Serotonin, acetylcholine,
» 5-hydroxytryptamine and other irritants. This stinging activity is lost
» when the plant is dried or cooked, and the tender tops of young
» first-growth nettles are especially delicious and nutritious.
»
» Found all over the world, Nettles have been used as a vegetable and folk
» remedy for centuries. Collected before flowering, Nettles were thought
» useful as a treatment for asthma, as an expectorant, antispasmodic,
» diuretic, astringent, and tonic. Applying an extract of Nettles to the
» scalp was said to stimulate hair growth, and chronic rheumatism was treated
» by placing nettle leaves directly on to the afflicted area.
»
» The Nettle has a long history of use. The tough fibers from the stem have
» been used to make cloth and cooked nettle leaves were eaten as vegetables.
» From ancient Greece to the present, nettle has been documented for its
» traditional use in treating coughs, tuberculosis, and arthritis and in
» stimulating hair growth.
»
» Nettles are rich in chlorophyll and young cooked nettle shoots, when
» cooked, are not only edible but are an excellent source of beta carotene,
» vitamin C, vitamin E and minerals, especially silica.
»
» In one study, Swiss researchers R. Hartmann et al. demonstrate that
» extracts of pygeum (Pygeum africanum Kalkman, Rosaceae) and nettle root
» (Urtica dioica L., Urticaceae) partially blocked the action of two enzymes
» involved in the body’s production of dihydrotestosterone and estrogen. The
» in vitro (laboratory) study showed that both pygeum and nettle root
» extracts were effective in inhibiting these two enzymes (5alpha-reductase
» and aromatase) and that a combination of the two plant extracts was
» significantly more effective than either extract individually in blocking
» aromatase activity.
»
» Nettle root extract was effective only at high concentrations, while
» pygeum extract showed “a much higher efficacy” at lower doses. The
» combination of the two extracts (Prostatonin®) was as effective as pygeum
» against 5 a-reductase and significantly more effective than either against
» aromatase. This study supports the use of combinations of these two
» ingredients in the treatment of BPH. This is especially important because
» pygeum bark is both expensive and limited in supply, while nettle roots are
» easily produced on a large scale.
»
» There are several clinical studies documenting the efficacy of nettle root
» for BPH. Dr. Varro E. Tyler reported on a paper from the 1995 Congress on
» Medicinal Plant Research that J.J. Lichius and colleagues showed a
» reduction in prostatic growth potential in mice with the administration of
» a high dosage of nettle root extract.
»
» Another study using saw palmetto berries and nettle root extracts to
» treat patients with BPH showed an inhibition of the testosterone
» metabolites dihydrotestosterone and estrogen, thus proving to be an
» effective treatment. Some of the more resent research on BPH and Nettles
» show that Nettles can interfere or block a chemical process in the body
» that has been linked to prostate disorders. As men age, free-floating
» testosterone becomes bound to albumin in a process called human sex
» hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), removing its bioavailability to the body.
»
» This chemical process is now believed to be linked to prostate disorders.
» In several clinical studies, nettles has demonstrated the ability to block
» this process which may well explain its documented effectiveness in the
» treatment of many prostate conditions. Since testosterone is a natural
» aphrodisiac, and nettles makes more testosterone bioavailable for the
» body’s use by blocking SHBG, this may also explain why nettles has recently
» been regarded with aphrodisiac properties.
»
» Adverse effects from consuming nettle tea can range from upset stomach to
» burning sensations in the skin, difficulty in urination and bloating.
»
» Although allergic reactions to nettle are rare, when contact is made with
» the skin, fresh nettle can cause a rash secondary to the noted stings.”
»
» :smiley:

there’s no way under the sun testosterone is good for the hair. never heard of anything like this. if anything, it’s bad for the hair.


#9

Is testosterone, itself, bad for hair? Do show me where it states this.


#10

» Is testosterone, itself, bad for hair? Do show me where it states
» this.

Testosterone is an androgen and androgen is bad for hair. Androgen causes hair loss similar to hair being lost to dht except to a smaller degree. Nonetheless, it causes hairloss. Which is why sometimes I think dutasteride can/may be counterproductive. It will nearly completely inhibit dht, but it icreases testosterone by 20%. Which “might” explain some people’s increased sheds. me for example, over one yr on dutasteride and things seem to have turned for the worse. the ONLY speculation i can come up with is the negative affects the increased test is having on my hair. I just want to clarify that this is speculation on my part, and it is possible that 6 months later i’m praising the drug again if it regrows or thickens up.


#11

» Testosterone is an androgen and androgen is bad for hair. Androgen causes
» hair loss similar to hair being lost to dht except to a smaller degree.
» Nonetheless, it causes hairloss. Which is why sometimes I think dutasteride
» can/may be counterproductive. It will nearly completely inhibit dht, but it
» icreases testosterone by 20%. Which “might” explain some people’s increased
» sheds. me for example, over one yr on dutasteride and things seem to have
» turned for the worse. the ONLY speculation i can come up with is the
» negative affects the increased test is having on my hair. I just want to
» clarify that this is speculation on my part, and it is possible that 6
» months later i’m praising the drug again if it regrows or thickens up.

What I have read is that high levels of testosterone cause hair loss in women. I also have read that low levels of testosterone can cause hair loss. And lest we forget that Dihydrotestosterone (DHT), three times more powerful than testosterone, is given as the standard cause for hair loss in those suffering from male pattern baldness.

Vitamin D raises testosterone production, as do tocotrienols and nettles, but I have never read nor experienced any of these causing hair loss.


#12

» » Testosterone is an androgen and androgen is bad for hair. Androgen
» causes
» » hair loss similar to hair being lost to dht except to a smaller degree.
» » Nonetheless, it causes hairloss. Which is why sometimes I think
» dutasteride
» » can/may be counterproductive. It will nearly completely inhibit dht, but
» it
» » icreases testosterone by 20%. Which “might” explain some people’s
» increased
» » sheds. me for example, over one yr on dutasteride and things seem to
» have
» » turned for the worse. the ONLY speculation i can come up with is the
» » negative affects the increased test is having on my hair. I just want
» to
» » clarify that this is speculation on my part, and it is possible that 6
» » months later i’m praising the drug again if it regrows or thickens up.
»
» What I have read is that high levels of testosterone cause hair loss in
»
women. I also have read that low levels of testosterone
» can cause hair loss. And lest we forget that Dihydrotestosterone
» (DHT), three times more powerful than testosterone, is given as the
»
standard cause for hair loss in those suffering from male pattern
» baldness.
»
» Vitamin D raises testosterone production, as do tocotrienols and nettles,
» but I have never read nor experienced any of these causing hair loss.

Finasteride also causes test levels to rise, but all of what you mentioned inclusive finasteride raises test levels to a small degree which poses no threat. Dutasteride on the other hand raises it 20% which is pretty large.

I’ll go check if I can find the text I came across in the past that coincides with what I’m saying.


#13

I think the situation with testosterone is confusing.
Pseudohermaphrodites have a high testosterone level (no DHT) and thick hair.
Testosterone could be a good thing if it binds to the AR with equal affinity to DHT but does not activate the receptor as well (I think this is called a reverse agonist but can’t remember for sure). I don’t know if this is true or not but I have heard that some people believe testosterone is good for hair growth.


#14

» » All other things being equal, of course, why on earth would
» » higher levels of testosterone provide thicker scalp hair?
»
» Tocotrienols, vitamin D, and nettles are purported to increase
» testosterone production:
»
» 1. http://www.tocotrienol.org/en/index/news/73.html
» 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?
» 3. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html
»
» And they are used to treat hair loss:
»
» 1.
» http://www.regrowhair.com/non-surgical-hair-loss-treatments/vitamin-e-for-hair-loss/
» 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1876678/
» 3. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25372.php
» […]
» :smiley:

I asked you a very specific question, and all you did was go on and on about several things OTHER than what I actually asked you! Not by any stretch of the imagination did I ask about tocotrienols, vitamin D, or nettles; in fact, I was very careful to include some other important words before actually asking my question: all other things being equal… I’m shocked that you would try to jam so many other things in with the question of testosterone’s specific effect on scalp hair, and expect me to just blithely go along with it! :slight_smile:

It’s obvious that those three substances you went on and on about can do a lot more than just (mildly?) raise testosterone levels, which is why they are so irrelevant in this context. Now once again, I ask you to address my specific question: ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, why would higher levels of an androgen like testosterone produce thicker scalp hair? You do know that it’s called androgenetic alopecia, don’t you? :stuck_out_tongue:


#15

» » » All other things being equal, of course, why on earth would
» » » higher levels of testosterone provide thicker scalp hair?
» »
» » Tocotrienols, vitamin D, and nettles are purported to increase
» » testosterone production:
» »
» » 1. http://www.tocotrienol.org/en/index/news/73.html
» » 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20050857?
» » 3. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.html
» »
» » And they are used to treat hair loss:
» »
» » 1.
» »
» http://www.regrowhair.com/non-surgical-hair-loss-treatments/vitamin-e-for-hair-loss/
» » 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1876678/
» » 3. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/25372.php
» » […]
» » :smiley:
»
» I asked you a very specific question, and all you did was go on and on
» about several things OTHER than what I actually asked you! Not by any
» stretch of the imagination did I ask about tocotrienols, vitamin D, or
» nettles; in fact, I was very careful to include some other important words
» before actually asking my question: all other things being equal…
» I’m shocked that you would try to jam so many other things in with the
» question of testosterone’s specific effect on scalp hair, and expect
» me to just blithely go along with it! :slight_smile:
»
» It’s obvious that those three substances you went on and on about can do a
» lot more than just (mildly?) raise testosterone levels, which is why they
» are so irrelevant in this context. Now once again, I ask you to address my
» specific question: ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, why would higher levels
» of an androgen like testosterone produce thicker scalp hair? You do know
» that it’s called androgenetic alopecia, don’t you? :stuck_out_tongue:

lmao
thats the first laugh i got and god dammn it hurt. i just had a chin implant yesterday!
Bryan i thought that was a given. More test = more conversion to dht. I was personally looking at it a little differently. Once finasteride (at higher doses) and dutasteride inhibit dht, can the rise in scalp test levels cause hair loss on its own? I’m sure you’ve read it plenty across the boards where for example El Dut is a firm believer of this. In fact this is the very reason people like to believe why dutasteride does not work fork for some people. Is this is an online forum brotology rumor or is there merit behind this belief? Although it makes sense I can’t find anything to support the claims, but I have come across text here and there (not studies) both coinciding with it and contradicting it. Which is it?


#16

» I think the situation with testosterone is confusing.
» Pseudohermaphrodites have a high testosterone level (no DHT) and thick
» hair.
» Testosterone could be a good thing if it binds to the AR with equal
» affinity to DHT but does not activate the receptor as well (I think this is
» called a reverse agonist but can’t remember for sure). I don’t know if this
» is true or not but I have heard that some people believe testosterone is
» good for hair growth.

That’s probably for those not carrying the mpb gene. If you’re predisposed with mpb I can’t imagine testosterone being good for the hair when it converts to 5-alhpa reductace. However, whether or not scalp testosterone alone and on its can cause hair loss once attached to androgen receptors…remains to be unknown.


#17

Just measured flat-out, I think it’s clear that all androgens are bad for hair.

There are a million different possible outcomes once you start throwing in factors like different people’s systems, changing the hormone balance, and possibly even different hormone senstivities in different areas of the scalp. (Maybe the hairlines are more hurt by Test while the crown is more hurt by DHT for example.)

But once again Androgens = bad for (scalp) hair.


#18

I don’t know. Perhaps it’s just a coincidence that these three supplements, all of which increase testosterone production, are also beneficial to the hair/scalp.

You are implying that higher levels of testosterone would be detrimental. I disagree.

And so does he:

The Real Reason Why Men Lose Their Hair.

By William Wong ND, PhD, Member World Sports Medicine Hall of Fame

"A pot bellied, thin armed balding man with a slight erectile dysfunction looks to his wife proudly and proclaims ‘My doctor says I’m losing my hair because I have too much testosterone.’ Ah, pride cometh before the fall! Look at your usual specimen of balding male; honestly does the average balding male look like he has too much testosterone floating 'round his body? Does he have: Good musculature, tight waist, great sexual function, consistently good erection size, good moods, no depression, great mental drive? Vin Diesel might still have all or most of these attributes but he would be one of the few balding men I can think of that does. In most guys loosing hair comes along with an increase in the hormone Di Hydro Testosterone, the swollen prostate, prostate cancer and hair loss hormone. And, sorry to tell you guys, DHT is not really testosterone despite its name and being classified as an androgen (male hormone)! In vivo (in live people not in a test tube or on paper), DHT is mostly made from estrogen. And, estrogen levels in the body have to increase before DHT levels get critical enough to cost you your hair. It is estrogen that causes muscle loss, fat gain, cranky moods, depression, swollen prostates and lack of mental drive.

The University of Iowa did a study some years back where they injected a group of 18 to 20 year olds with 600 times more testosterone than they already had! (1). (It’s a wonder these guys didn’t impregnate every gal in Iowa and both the Dakotas)! During the entire duration of the fairly long study, a control group of men aged 50+ was monitored for the same things the young men were being monitored for: Total and Free Testosterone level, Estrogen level, DHT levels and other pertinent things. The control group received no hormones or medications during the study period.

During the time of having super high T levels the young men had low DHT levels! Their DHT levels remained consistent and did not elevate. AND their estrogen levels remained low as well. This came as a surprise, because the prevailing thought among MD endocrinologists (who really don’t know much about hormones) was that as T levels rose so would DHT levels and that T would convert to E and increase estrogen levels. That flatly did not happen. What also did not happen were any increases in prostate size, testicular or prostate cancer or the onset of any other malignant disease.

Meanwhile back in the old guys control group; during the entire time of the study their T levels were constantly decreasing, their estrogen levels were constantly elevating and with the increase in estrogen was an increase in DHT…

If DHT creates hair loss, how can you keep from making DHT, how can you increase your testosterone levels and how can you keep your estrogen levels low?

Control your estrogen levels."

Bitching, bitchy attitude, and bitch-like behavior (as you display here on a regular basis) are all indicative of one who has disproportiately high levels of estrogen, the primary female sex hormone.

Be careful, Bryan.

For your (hair’s) sake.


#19

» I don’t know. Perhaps it’s just a coincidence that these three
» supplements, all of which increase testosterone production, are also
» beneficial to the hair/scalp.
»
» You are implying that higher levels of testosterone would be detrimental.
» I disagree.
»
» And so does he:
»
»
» The Real Reason Why Men Lose Their Hair.
»
» By William Wong ND, PhD, Member World Sports Medicine Hall of Fame
»
» “A pot bellied, thin armed balding man with a slight erectile dysfunction
» looks to his wife proudly and proclaims ‘My doctor says I’m losing my hair
» because I have too much testosterone.’ Ah, pride cometh before the fall!
» Look at your usual specimen of balding male; honestly does the average
» balding male look like he has too much testosterone floating 'round his
» body? Does he have: Good musculature, tight waist, great sexual function,
» consistently good erection size, good moods, no depression, great mental
» drive? Vin Diesel might still have all or most of these attributes but he
» would be one of the few balding men I can think of that does. In most guys
» loosing hair comes along with an increase in the hormone Di Hydro
» Testosterone, the swollen prostate, prostate cancer and hair loss hormone.
» And, sorry to tell you guys, DHT is not really testosterone despite its
» name and being classified as an androgen (male hormone)! In vivo (in live
» people not in a test tube or on paper), DHT is mostly made from estrogen.
» And, estrogen levels in the body have to increase before DHT levels get
» critical enough to cost you your hair. It is estrogen that causes muscle
» loss, fat gain, cranky moods, depression, swollen prostates and lack of
» mental drive.
»
» The University of Iowa did a study some years back where they injected a
» group of 18 to 20 year olds with 600 times more testosterone than they
» already had! (1). (It’s a wonder these guys didn’t impregnate every gal in
» Iowa and both the Dakotas)! During the entire duration of the fairly long
» study, a control group of men aged 50+ was monitored for the same things
» the young men were being monitored for: Total and Free Testosterone level,
» Estrogen level, DHT levels and other pertinent things. The control group
» received no hormones or medications during the study period.
»
» During the time of having super high T levels the young men had low DHT
» levels! Their DHT levels remained consistent and did not elevate. AND their
» estrogen levels remained low as well. This came as a surprise, because the
» prevailing thought among MD endocrinologists (who really don’t know much
» about hormones) was that as T levels rose so would DHT levels and that T
» would convert to E and increase estrogen levels. That flatly did not
» happen. What also did not happen were any increases in prostate size,
» testicular or prostate cancer or the onset of any other malignant disease.
»
»
» Meanwhile back in the old guys control group; during the entire time of
» the study their T levels were constantly decreasing, their estrogen levels
» were constantly elevating and with the increase in estrogen was an increase
» in DHT…
»
» If DHT creates hair loss, how can you keep from making DHT, how can you
» increase your testosterone levels and how can you keep your estrogen levels
» low?
»
» Control your estrogen levels.”
»
» Bitching, bitchy attitude, and bitch-like behavior (as you display here on
» a regular basis) are all indicative of one who has disproportiately high
» levels of estrogen, the primary female sex hormone.
»
» Be careful, Bryan.
»
» For your (hair’s) sake.

Nice post Natural, but it still doesn’t really make sense to me. That’s really not scientific fact or study based. if that’s the case I know of the world renowned TRT doctor, formerly steroid user and body builder, that will attest to the notion that high levels of testosterone will convert to dht causing hair loss if one is predisposed with mpb. Also, how does this explain the fact that when I amongst MANY MANY other men predisposed with mpb have hair loss accelarated when injecting testosterone? Most of the time these men don’t even realise they are predisposed with male pattern aldness until they start injecting test, which will acelarate their loss.


#20

» Nice post Natural, but it still doesn’t really make sense to me. That’s
» really not scientific fact or study based. if that’s the case I know of the
» world renowned TRT doctor, formerly steroid user and body builder, that
» will attest to the notion that high levels of testosterone will convert to
» dht causing hair loss if one is predisposed with mpb. Also, how does this
» explain the fact that when I amongst MANY MANY other men predisposed with
» mpb have hair loss accelarated when injecting testosterone? Most of the
» time these men don’t even realise they are predisposed with male pattern
» aldness until they start injecting test, which will acelarate their loss.

Does increased testosterone = hair loss? The excerpt that I just provided is from a doctor, who cites a scientific study, which suggests that as we age, our estrogen levels elevate, raising DHT levels, leading to hair loss.

I find it quite interesting that our testosterone levels decrease as we age, but we lose hair at a faster rate.

Why?