basically it is a study with 100 trialists (half with minox only and half with minox + dermarolling).
The dermaroller trail group was treated with a dermaroller once a week, after which 24 hours were waited until reapplying a two times daily dose of minoxidil.
A very significant increase in hair growth (with pictures) was observed in the dermaroll group at 12 weeks. Roughly 4x as effective as rogaine alone. I do not know if the results would have continued beyond the 4 month mark. It is possible however. Also the study concluded that the results were sustainable even after 8 months.
40 of 50 trailists went up 2 to 3 points on the NW scale.
It appears the skin wounding pushes follicles excretes alot of growth factors and pushes follicles into growth mode which is further supported by minoxidils rather unknown mechanisms of hair growth promotion.
I’m going to try to buy a 1.5mm dermaroller today and start testing this asap. Anyone interested in joining?
What do you mean by minoxidils rather unknown mechanisms of hair growth promotion. Minoxidil upregulates production of PGE2 . Prostaglandin E2 Induces Fibroblast Growth Factor 9 http://mcb.asm.org/content/26/22/8281.full.pdf . And as you probably know there is a guy in BTT having success with it. Photo Storage
Firstly, to my knowledge FGF9 only plays a roll in follicular neogenesis. It is not closely involved in the promotion of hair growth of existing follicles.
I also disagree that there is consensus on the actual mechanisms of action of minoxidil. The understanding of minoxidil is very limited:
I actually think that minox may in fact have multiple mechanisms of action. PGE2 upregulation may be one of them.
anyhow, thanks for the links but yours arent working so I am reposting the fixed links here again:
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Rob35[/postedby]
What do you mean by minoxidils rather unknown mechanisms of hair growth promotion. Minoxidil upregulates production of PGE2 . Prostaglandin E2 Induces Fibroblast Growth Factor 9 http://mcb.asm.org/content/26/22/8281.full.pdf . And as you probably know there is a guy in BTT having success with it. Photo Storage
[/quote]
how painful is the dermarolling? would you recommend purchasing some kind of numbing cream?
what kind of dermaroller are you using? I presume 1.5mm?
did you start with a session of dermabrasion or did you first start with minox?
also are you keeping track of your progress in photographic images? That would be awesome.
Best of luck.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by poulal[/postedby]
I’m already on it since 1 week, i’m using derma once a week(roughly), minox and pgd2 blocker everyday except the day when i use the dermaroller[/quote]
I really dont understand why this thread is not getting the attention that it deserves on hairsite.
A 2 point increase in the NW 1-7 scale for 40 / 50 trailists using such basic methods is simply huge.
There are a couple of independent forum members which have been able to replicate this method.
I dont understand why we need to inject growth factors when we can force our skin to naturally secrete such growth factors (most notably WNT) through wounding. I truly believe that this method ought to be more thoroughly discussed.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
Hi guys,
I think this study should have been posted here before… I am not sure anyway here it is again just in case:
basically it is a study with 100 trialists (half with minox only and half with minox + dermarolling).
The dermaroller trail group was treated with a dermaroller once a week, after which 24 hours were waited until reapplying a two times daily dose of minoxidil.
A very significant increase in hair growth (with pictures) was observed in the dermaroll group at 12 weeks. Roughly 4x as effective as rogaine alone. I do not know if the results would have continued beyond the 4 month mark. It is possible however. Also the study concluded that the results were sustainable even after 8 months.
40 of 50 trailists went up 2 to 3 points on the NW scale.
It appears the skin wounding pushes follicles excretes alot of growth factors and pushes follicles into growth mode which is further supported by minoxidils rather unknown mechanisms of hair growth promotion.
I’m going to try to buy a 1.5mm dermaroller today and start testing this asap. Anyone interested in joining?
Well, the participants did not get a two point increase in the NW scale, as the NW scale was not used to measure the results of this therapy. This is a 7 point scale wich goes from -3 (greatly decreased) to 3 (greatly increased). Most participants in the dermarolling group got a results of 2 and 3, but that is not saying they went from a norwood to another one, that would be impossible.
Still, having said that, I really think this is HUGE, and everybody should be talking about it.
The only thing that bothers me is that there have been many people in the past using dermaroller and… well, how come nobody saw this kind of results?.
Well, anyway, I really think the numbers in the study are very encouraging. And there is a guy in hlh called prettyfly83 who has posted some pics and is already showing a tiny bit of regrowth at just one month (he started a little before the study was published, sort of a coincidence. But on the other hand, he has been on minox for like three months, so is hard to tell).
Another thing I think about is, this study was just three months long. It says that even after 8 months after completing the study, the results were still sustainable, but I wonder if they just stayed the same, or if they got even better.
ok… i guess i was false-fully equating a +2 on a 7 point scale to something similar to a 2 point decrease on a NW7 scale. I understand your point, thank you for clarifying that.
Nevertheless, some of the pictures are extremely impressive. I think they DO correspond to a decrease on the NW scale.
I also agree that it is a bit disturbing that people have been dermarolling for years without any such success, but I do think that this is fundamentally different to most of the previous experiments. The differences being:
previously most testimonials speak of dermarollers with 0.5mm needles as opposed to rather large 1.5mm needles in this study.
the dermaroller was aimed at increased minox absorption in to the skin rather than stimulation of WNT in DP cells.
light dermarolling was performed on a daily basis, rather than giving the skin 5-7 days recovery in which the WNT signaling reaches its maximum.
My hope is that these adjustments, results can be acheived.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by osma_27[/postedby]
Well, the participants did not get a two point increase in the NW scale, as the NW scale was not used to measure the results of this therapy. This is a 7 point scale wich goes from -3 (greatly decreased) to 3 (greatly increased). Most participants in the dermarolling group got a results of 2 and 3, but that is not saying they went from a norwood to another one, that would be impossible.
[/quote]
I’ve derma rolled in the past. Honestly, didn’t see any affect like they’re claiming in the paper. The speed that the show the existing hair growing is ridiculous! After one week, the photo shows existing hair growing about 100x faster than non needled hair. I think i would’ve noticed something like that.
But, in all honesty, i didn’t use it for very long. Maybe a month or two. According to the paper, that should be long enough to see something. I didn’t notice anything. However, i’m going to try again and be more disciplined about it.
Rolling isn’t too painful. I would describe it as uncomfortable. And it makes me sneeze every damn time.
If it worked as good as the paper says, i would be one happy camper.
I would not do it that often but, just out of curiosity, do you think dermarolling more, like daily or something like that would be a not so good idea?
Mr z, can you please tell me how often did you rolled?
what was the needle length of the dermaroller that you used and how frequently did you derma roll? Also did you use it in conjunction with minox?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Mr. Z[/postedby]
Use the foam - it’s much better.
I’ve derma rolled in the past. Honestly, didn’t see any affect like they’re claiming in the paper. The speed that the show the existing hair growing is ridiculous! After one week, the photo shows existing hair growing about 100x faster than non needled hair. I think i would’ve noticed something like that.
But, in all honesty, i didn’t use it for very long. Maybe a month or two. According to the paper, that should be long enough to see something. I didn’t notice anything. However, i’m going to try again and be more disciplined about it.
Rolling isn’t too painful. I would describe it as uncomfortable. And it makes me sneeze every damn time.
If it worked as good as the paper says, i would be one happy camper.[/quote]
Thanks for posting this, hairman2. I bought a .5 dermaroller a month or two ago, but didn’t know if it was the right size (apparently not. Just ordered the 1.5) and how often to use it. Now I have a gameplan, thanks to you.
Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternative to minoxidil, though? I’ve tried it at various times over the years, but always get the dreaded systemic side effects and have had to stop. I’m currently using Ramatroban, Indomethacin, and Avodart, but none of these approaches the issue in the same way minoxidil does. Any suggestions are appreciated.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
These results are impressive for what they are. But some of us are not willing to commit to an ongoing Minox regimen.
I would get a whole lot more interested if somebody demonstrated that the results last after the drug is discontinued.[/quote]
I would be a lot more interested if someone trying this technique on their own demonstrated even 1/2 the efficacy that the study claims.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by tricho[/postedby] Photo Storage
After one month of dermarolling, but after three months of minoxidil. No way to tell yet if those results are due to the dermaroller or minoxidil alone.
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