Everyone is entitled to your opinion so we must respect that. But this forum is to discuss hair transplants. And a major part of hair transplants is the clinic providing the service. So I believe it is essential for clinics to be an integral part of the discussion. As patients or future patients we must pick and choose the information we think is necessary. But to throw one person out for for doing their job is unfair. Plenty of other doctors log on to here and give their opinions and post photos as well. Personally, I like Pats and believe he does a great job for Armani. And at the same time I respect the other clinics and doctors who are trying to help the forum visitors also.
» I believe that the interaction between clinic representatives and the
» patients is very important.
I agree that both sides should be allowed to debate each others’ claims.
There is a modern trend developing toward dense-packing the extreme edge of very young patients’ hairlines with roughly 50% of the available donor grafts. I think this is an extremely dangerous development. IMO, the doctors getting caught up in this practice are not acting in the long-term best interest of their patients. They are instead acting in the long-term best interest of their wallets. This is extremely disturbing from an ethics standpoint.
This is difficult to perceive because the young patients desire to have a teenage hairline again. So the nice doctors are just giving the patients what they want, right? The problem is that as the years progress, 3K grafts into the front 1/2" of your hairline is going to look extremely freakish. In addition, the doctors are charging exorbitant fees (up to $25K for a day’s work) while preying on young persons’ difficulty psychologically adjusting from transitioning between the young adult and adult phases of life.
In short, dense-packing the front 1/2" with half the available donor for a cost of $25K per day is an extremely expensive short-term crutch that will lead to many young men being turned into freaks 10 years down the road. The doctors know this, but can easily pass it off because when the donor runs out, the patients will no longer be welcome at the clinic.
A much more ethical and realistic method would be to proceed with caution until the patient reaches an age where the hairloss stabilizes so the donor area can be used to cover the balding in a manner offering long-term patient satisfaction. This means adult hairlines should be established until it can be proven the engineered teenage hairline will not lead to a freakish appearance in the future.
Armani is particularly guilty of the above practice. It has long been accepted in the HT industry that donor conservation is crucial to longterm patient satisfaction. However, I see picture after picture of young men getting their front edge packed. Let’s see if Armani and his salesmen can provide us with as many photos of > NW1 patients who still have impressive results. So far, I have seen one photo of an older Armani patient, and the hairline was not placed anywhere near where it is placed on the younger patients. That’s because placing the grafts there on such an old patient would look very freakish without an additional 10K grafts to back it up.
Hey, I didn’t start balding until 30 (other than normal adult hairline regression). When you start balding at 22 or 25, it typically means you are going to be a complete chrome-dome in the coming years. Or, in the case of an Armani patient, it means you will be a complete chrome-dome with a freakish 1/2" HT island on your forehead. Look at a picture of anybody who is 50 who started balding at 22, and you will know exactly what I’m talking about. Armani’s restorations work for the moment but cannot stand the test of time.
» » I believe that the interaction between clinic representatives and the
» » patients is very important.
»
» I agree that both sides should be allowed to debate each others’ claims.
»
» There is a modern trend developing toward dense-packing the extreme edge
» of very young patients’ hairlines with roughly 50% of the available donor
» grafts. I think this is an extremely dangerous development. IMO, the
» doctors getting caught up in this practice are not acting in the long-term
» best interest of their patients. They are instead acting in the long-term
» best interest of their wallets. This is extremely disturbing from an ethics
» standpoint.
»
» This is difficult to perceive because the young patients desire to have a
» teenage hairline again. So the nice doctors are just giving the patients
» what they want, right? The problem is that as the years progress, 3K grafts
» into the front 1/2" of your hairline is going to look extremely freakish.
» In addition, the doctors are charging exorbitant fees (up to $25K for a
» day’s work) while preying on young persons’ difficulty psychologically
» adjusting from transitioning between the young adult and adult phases of
» life.
»
» In short, dense-packing the front 1/2" with half the available donor for a
» cost of $25K per day is an extremely expensive short-term crutch that will
» lead to many young men being turned into freaks 10 years down the road. The
» doctors know this, but can easily pass it off because when the donor runs
» out, the patients will no longer be welcome at the clinic.
»
» A much more ethical and realistic method would be to proceed with caution
» until the patient reaches an age where the hairloss stabilizes so the donor
» area can be used to cover the balding in a manner offering long-term
» patient satisfaction. This means adult hairlines should be established
» until it can be proven the engineered teenage hairline will not lead to a
» freakish appearance in the future.
»
» Armani is particularly guilty of the above practice. It has long been
» accepted in the HT industry that donor conservation is crucial to longterm
» patient satisfaction. However, I see picture after picture of young men
» getting their front edge packed. Let’s see if Armani and his salesmen can
» provide us with as many photos of > NW1 patients who still have impressive
» results. So far, I have seen one photo of an older Armani patient, and the
» hairline was not placed anywhere near where it is placed on the younger
» patients. That’s because placing the grafts there on such an old patient
» would look very freakish without an additional 10K grafts to back it up.
»
» Hey, I didn’t start balding until 30 (other than normal adult hairline
» regression). When you start balding at 22 or 25, it typically means you are
» going to be a complete chrome-dome in the coming years. Or, in the case of
» an Armani patient, it means you will be a complete chrome-dome with a
» freakish 1/2" HT island on your forehead. Look at a picture of anybody who
» is 50 who started balding at 22, and you will know exactly what I’m talking
» about. Armani’s restorations work for the moment but cannot stand the test
» of time.
Although I lack your eloquence, I certainly share your sentiments.
Armani’s methods inundated me with varying concerns, but my conclusion’s always the same - his hairlines/dense packing is dangerous. I think Armani’s salesmanship exceeds his skills as a surgeon (which is, in itself, a grand statement considering he’s a superb surgeon). He sells a “luxury” most of his patients cannot afford to sustain over the long term (hairloss doesn’t stop). Moreso, you seldom hear Armani quote procedures under 2000 grafts, and you seldom hear his reps brag about conservative procedures. In fact, Armani’s gone so far as to discount donor supply because he claimed a cure will be available in 18 months (that comment was made roughly 6 months ago.)
My advice is simple: Younger patients should use some common sense to differentiate their wants (a teenage hairline) from their needs (a sustainable, long-term hairline) before they visit a graft happy surgeon. Just because someone’s a doctor doesn’t guarantee they have your best interests in mind.
.
» doesn’t stop). Moreso, you seldom hear Armani quote procedures under 2000
» grafts, and you seldom hear his reps brag about conservative procedures. In
Apparently, Armani doesn’t even accept patients who desire, or require, fewer than 2,000 grafts.
With all due respect to the moderator of this forum:
“As a matter of fact, the mandate of the forum is to facilitate discussions not only among patients themselves, but also between patients and clinics.”
It is my humble opinion that the “mandate of the forum” has little to do with unbiased moderation regarding content. I have seen many benign comments about, what forum members perceived as bad results (“not impressed”), removed. All in all, this is okay; it only becomes an insult when it is passed off an an unbiased forum. It is not.
»
» In short, dense-packing the front 1/2" with half the available donor for a
» cost of $25K per day is an extremely expensive short-term crutch that will
» lead to many young men being turned into freaks 10 years down the road. The
» doctors know this, but can easily pass it off because when the donor runs
» out, the patients will no longer be welcome at the clinic.
»
Norwood 3, 4, 5 ,6, …. Our philosophy is high density front, low density crown. A nice hairline that frames the face and a slightly thinning crown – a very “natural balding pattern”.
There is nothing wrong with receiving 2000-2500 grafts into zone 1, the hairline, despite your balding pattern.
Most patients can achieve high density front, low density crown. A great hairline and a thinning crown with roughly 8,000 grafts. Of course hair characteristic play a role. If some patients want to thicken the crown more, it’s possible. We would just need to harvest additional grafts.
As an example:
- Zone 1: 2560
- Zone 2: 1000
- Zone 3: 2000
- Zone 4: 2560
A total of 8120 grafts.
» Everyone is entitled to your opinion so we must respect that. But this
» forum is to discuss hair transplants. And a major part of hair transplants
» is the clinic providing the service. So I believe it is essential for
» clinics to be an integral part of the discussion. As patients or future
» patients we must pick and choose the information we think is necessary.
» But to throw one person out for for doing their job is unfair. Plenty of
» other doctors log on to here and give their opinions and post photos as
» well. Personally, I like Pats and believe he does a great job for Armani.
» And at the same time I respect the other clinics and doctors who are trying
» to help the forum visitors also.
Well said Leong, a lot of doctors are posting in the forum too, do we throw the doctors out too because they are ultimately the ones who want to sell us a hair transplant?
» After my procedure Pats has been a very big help to me. Whenever I have a
» question rather it be my post op instructions or just need advice in
» regards to taking care of my grafts, Pats has always been quick to respond
» to all my questions. He is someone I can turn to, even after the clinic has
» closed for the day! There have been times I have emailed Pats as late as 10
» at night and I still got a response within the hour!!
Burberry, I’m interested in your result. Looked like it was coming in nicely at the 4 month mark. Can you please post some recent pics, preferably of the donor region also. Thanks.
BTW, there is another thread where a poster asked for updated pics from you, not sure if you saw it.
A “forum” is defined as a meeting place for the discussion of questions of public interest, correct? So we all have the right to state our own opinions and it is in turn the duty of the reader to form their own judgement and use all the resources they have to come to their own conclusions. With that said, why do some of these members constantly take a shot at someone like Pats who OBVIOUSLY works for the Armani clinic and is promoting the doctors he works for. The HT industry is an extremely competitive field and as long as these clinics are marketing themselves in a conscientious and ethical manner, than let them market as they please. If one thinks that these posts or threads are overly zealous, then state your opinion respectfully and move on. No one is forcing or persuading anyone to do anything. From what I have been reading so far, Pats has done a pretty good job with handling objectives and being able to answer controversial statements directed at what he is trying to do.
I have never met Pats but have read many posts on here and other forums and have always found him to be increibly polite and supportive to people with queries. Generally speaking - if a poster is forthcoming in his role for a clinic I don’t see a problem. I mean, they could easily hide the fact they’re working for a clinic but they don’t. I’m sure posters can make up their own minds and having representatives from clinics can only help on their decision, should they choose a HT.
» Norwood 3, 4, 5 ,6, ….
» There is nothing wrong with receiving 2000-2500 grafts into zone 1, the
» hairline, despite your balding pattern.
It’s difficult to get a visual idea of what you are saying. Please post the before/after results of 5 patients NW6 or above where Armani placed 2500 grafts into zone 1. Preferably, post several angles in good lighting.
Thanx
I think Pats is a valuable person to have on this forum because of his experience’s and his dedicated journal.
Regardless of the fact that he works for the Armani Clinic, I feel that his knowledge & own personal experience & the fact he is willing to share this with everyone speaks volumes.
All of the doctor representatives are important to this board. They are able to answer questions that many times, other posters can’t answer; specifically when there are questions regarding that doctors particular procedures. And while obviously they are biased in the fact that they would like you to go to their doctor because he/she is obviously the best, it is important to hear all view points so that new comers can make an informed decision.
I would obviously advise anyone who is researching a HT to learn all that you can from every source, and to not only listen to any given sales person from a particular clinic. Do as much research as you can from every source available. The more sources you use, the more accurately you can make an informed and balanced decision. Limiting those resources on this board, in my opinion, does a disservice to it’s members.
Why do I get the feeling that you will never receive a straight answer to this question.
» » Norwood 3, 4, 5 ,6, ….
»
» » There is nothing wrong with receiving 2000-2500 grafts into zone 1, the
» » hairline, despite your balding pattern.
»
»
» It’s difficult to get a visual idea of what you are saying. Please post
» the before/after results of 5 patients NW6 or above where Armani placed
» 2500 grafts into zone 1. Preferably, post several angles in good lighting.
»
» Thanx
» All of the doctor representatives are important to this board. They are
» able to answer questions that many times, other posters can’t answer;
» specifically when there are questions regarding that doctors particular
» procedures. And while obviously they are biased in the fact that they
» would like you to go to their doctor because he/she is obviously the best,
» it is important to hear all view points so that new comers can make an
» informed decision.
»
» I would obviously advise anyone who is researching a HT to learn all that
» you can from every source, and to not only listen to any given sales person
» from a particular clinic. Do as much research as you can from every source
» available. The more sources you use, the more accurately you can make an
» informed and balanced decision. Limiting those resources on this board, in
» my opinion, does a disservice to it’s members.
I am not a sponsor on Pats site. I never go there. In fact, I only sporadicaly look anywhere, because it is so “polluted”.
But I was told that on Pats site, there are underhanded shots at me from “come and go” posters.
I checked and was very angry about some of the slanderous comments obviously coming from other “interest” groups.
I tried to reply but was denied. I emailed Pat and stated that if he allows unsubstantiated lies told about me on his site, then I deserve the right of reply.
That was weeks ago.
The hypocricy of the previous post should alert anyone reading anything on the net that it has become a marketing industry rather than the democratic open and transparent information media we all thought it would be.
Dr Ray Woods
Dr. Woods can you please be a litle more specific. Which Pat are refering to? What’s Pats site?
»
» I am not a sponsor on Pats site. I never go there. In fact, I only
» sporadicaly look anywhere, because it is so “polluted”.
»
» But I was told that on Pats site, there are underhanded shots at me from
» “come and go” posters.
»
» I checked and was very angry about some of the slanderous comments
» obviously coming from other “interest” groups.
»
» I tried to reply but was denied. I emailed Pat and stated that if he
» allows unsubstantiated lies told about me on his site, then I deserve the
» right of reply.
» That was weeks ago.
»
» The hypocricy of the previous post should alert anyone reading anything on
» the net that it has become a marketing industry rather than the democratic
» open and transparent information media we all thought it would be.
»
»
»
» Dr Ray Woods
" Which Pat are refering to? What’s Pats site?" From reading through his reply I think he is talking about Pat Hennesey’s site.
Thanks for the clarification. Didn’t know that site was run by another person named Pats. One can easily misconstrue what dr woods is saying with the Pats from Armani clinic from the title of this thread.
» " Which Pat are refering to? What’s Pats site?" From reading through his
» reply I think he is talking about the hairtransplant network. Pat
» Hennesey’s site.
» " Which Pat are refering to? What’s Pats site?" From reading through his
» reply I think he is talking about Pat
» Hennesey’s site.
Yes, I believe that Dr. Woods is referring to HTN. They have taken slander to a whole new level. That site is full of snakes and I cannot believe that ANY doctor would be associated with that garbage site. Well, they do have Dr. Assman as their flagship surgeon;-)
I am especially fond of “falceros” - the self-absorbed moron. He is an absolute liar. Just take a look at his photo. He looks like a guy whose mother slammed his head in the car door when he was an infant. He has that “duh” look on his face. He is notorious for posting lies about David, Farrel and many surgeons.
» » All of the doctor representatives are important to this board. They are
» » able to answer questions that many times, other posters can’t answer;
» » specifically when there are questions regarding that doctors particular
» » procedures. And while obviously they are biased in the fact that they
» » would like you to go to their doctor because he/she is obviously the
» best,
» » it is important to hear all view points so that new comers can make an
» » informed decision.
» »
» » I would obviously advise anyone who is researching a HT to learn all
» that
» » you can from every source, and to not only listen to any given sales
» person
» » from a particular clinic. Do as much research as you can from every
» source
» » available. The more sources you use, the more accurately you can make
» an
» » informed and balanced decision. Limiting those resources on this board,
» in
» » my opinion, does a disservice to it’s members.
»
» I am not a sponsor on Pats site. I never go there. In fact, I only
» sporadicaly look anywhere, because it is so “polluted”.
»
» But I was told that on Pats site, there are underhanded shots at me from
» “come and go” posters.
»
» I checked and was very angry about some of the slanderous comments
» obviously coming from other “interest” groups.
»
» I tried to reply but was denied. I emailed Pat and stated that if he
» allows unsubstantiated lies told about me on his site, then I deserve the
» right of reply.
» That was weeks ago.
»
» The hypocricy of the previous post should alert anyone reading anything on
» the net that it has become a marketing industry rather than the democratic
» open and transparent information media we all thought it would be.
»
»
»
» Dr Ray Woods
Dr. Woods, is that legal for him to do that? Why can’t you sue him?