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Warning: Vomiting is Likely After Seeing How Strips Are Removed In These Photos
After seeing these photos I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOO #$%@%#$ Happy I chose FUE over Strip. This site is a Must See and Read. Very informative and if you want to debate the narrator… you definetly can’t debate the photos… pictures never lie. Check This Out…
oh man, I just threw up in my mouth,
hair101 - laughing :lol2:
I put up a big warning sign of Possible Vomit bud
This grossed me out more than the Texas Chain Saw Masacre did. My apology goes to the surgeons performing Strip surgeries as my intentions are not to discredit anyone whatsoever. It is my personal opinion on Strip procedure compared to FUE and still emphasize that Strip surgery these days have phenominal results.
My only concern is that I do not think that ANY surgeon fully makes aware their patient of the complications involved in performing Strip. Not to mention that the link I posted in my previous post on this thread shows clearly how insane and desperate one must be to choose FUE over Strip. After seeing the reality of Strip and it’s complications I don’t even think I’d go through with it if it were 25 cents per graft.
here’s the link again incase you don’t feel like going back…
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/hairtransplant/new.html
» Warning: Vomiting is Likely After Seeing How Strips Are
» Removed In These Photos
»
» After seeing these photos I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOO #$%@%#$ Happy I chose FUE over
» Strip. This site is a Must See and Read. Very informative and if you want
» to debate the narrator… you definetly can’t debate the photos… pictures
» never lie. Check This Out…
»
» The Hair Transplant Industry is a Disgrace
That site has been up for years, but unfortunately for some they never had a chance to see it.
The same salesman and consultants that you find in the offcies also plague the internet. Doctors often post results with the same posters praising the work and treating the doctor like a God. As some point it has become ridiculous. Doctors are not gods, but just people trying to make a buck. Hopefully you find one that actually knows what the hell they are doing.
Well if noone had a chance to see that site then now’s their chance. And if they still want strip surgery, then all the best.
» That site has been up for years, but unfortunately for some they never had
» a chance to see it.
»
» The same salesman and consultants that you find in the offcies also plague
» the internet. Doctors often post results with the same posters praising the
» work and treating the doctor like a God. As some point it has become
» ridiculous. Doctors are not gods, but just people trying to make a buck.
» Hopefully you find one that actually knows what the hell they are doing.
i have seen those pics before , that is an old site, it’s frightening but let me tell you, fue will still never become mainstream because it is too difficult to do for most doctors.
when you say fue will never become mainstream because it’s difficult to do, i agree half with you because that doc Armani produces fue results unmatched even by strip results. not to mention hdc and cole’s cit are amongst top notch natural fue looking results too
sad thing is when i saw that site i was actually eating…key word… “was”.
» i have seen those pics before , that is an old site, it’s frightening but
» let me tell you, fue will still never become mainstream because it is too
» difficult to do for most doctors.
» when you say fue will never become mainstream because it’s difficult to do,
» i agree half with you because that doc Armani produces fue results
» unmatched even by strip results. not to mention hdc and cole’s cit are
» amongst top notch natural fue looking results too
»
» sad thing is when i saw that site i was actually eating…key word…
» “was”.
People like James harris have made FUE a reasonably robust straight forward process. The reason that many have not taken up the mantle is that FUE cannot extract the numbers required for the long term needs of most. These needs are the fact that most will progress at least to class V and require 7000FU at least. FUE can often only use 4000-5000 max from the donor and often only 3500 at the 28% mark. Strip alone doubles this.
FUE does allow body hair to be used but the quality of body hair is only applicable for 25% (that’s a guess) of patients.
» when you say fue will never become mainstream because it’s difficult to do,
» i agree half with you because that doc Armani produces fue results
» unmatched even by strip results. not to mention hdc and cole’s cit are
» amongst top notch natural fue looking results too
»
» sad thing is when i saw that site i was actually eating…key word…
» “was”.
»
»
» » i have seen those pics before , that is an old site, it’s frightening
» but
» » let me tell you, fue will still never become mainstream because it is
» too
» » difficult to do for most doctors.
I always considered strip surgery an archaic form of barbarism. IMHO, it’s the work of butchers NOT doctors.
Moreso, I could never understand strip clinics hesitation to offer/ make-the-switch to FUE. After all, the implantation process is the same, and harvesting - albeit tedious - entails the use of a rather remedial tool (for a doctor anyways).
Of course, FUE doesn’t guarantee perfect results either (and we’ve seen the dot-scars from botched fue surgeries), but even at its worst FUE still allows the majority of patients to buzz their head. Strip tends to turn people into basket cases when they realize they ran out of donor supply, AND they can’t buzz their noggins (because of those hideous scars).
The reason that many have not taken up the mantle is that
» FUE cannot extract the numbers required for the long term needs of most.
» These needs are the fact that most will progress at least to class V and
» require 7000FU at least. FUE can often only use 4000-5000 max from the
» donor and often only 3500 at the 28% mark. Strip alone doubles this.
»
» FUE does allow body hair to be used but the quality of body hair is only
» applicable for 25% (that’s a guess) of patients.
If you study the progress FUE has made in the last years you will realize that this technique has evolved at a much faster pace then strip surgery has in the past.
Most of the FUE clinics/docs did not know which instruments to use, how to use them and how many grafts can be extracted before seeing visible thinning in the donor area. This takes time, efford and commitment.
The FUE dedicated clinics (still very very few) have now reached a level where the number game in terms of harvestable grafts has matched or surpassed strip. Please remember that one of strips main disadvantages is that individual laxity becomes a factor with each slice being taken. At some point the patient will no longer have the possibility to harvest more, or risk serious complications.
With FUE it is really up to the patient how far he wants to go in terms of thinning his donor area. Thinning the donor area is desirable since, especially for those with higher NW classifications. A thinner donor on a nw6 will better match the overal density.
I would not be suprised if we start seeing 7000+ FUE cases during 2009.
ps : for the critics : patients are informed that after extracting 25% of the donor reserves noticible thinning will likely be visible at very short hair lenght, FUE is not magic:-)
» The reason that many have not taken up the mantle is that
» » FUE cannot extract the numbers required for the long term needs of
» most.
» » These needs are the fact that most will progress at least to class V
» and
» » require 7000FU at least. FUE can often only use 4000-5000 max from the
» » donor and often only 3500 at the 28% mark. Strip alone doubles this.
» »
» » FUE does allow body hair to be used but the quality of body hair is
» only
» » applicable for 25% (that’s a guess) of patients.
»
»
» If you study the progress FUE has made in the last years you will realize
» that this technique has evolved at a much faster pace then strip surgery
» has in the past.
»
» Most of the FUE clinics/docs did not know which instruments to use, how to
» use them and how many grafts can be extracted before seeing visible
» thinning in the donor area. This takes time, efford and commitment.
»
» The FUE dedicated clinics (still very very few) have now reached a level
» where the number game in terms of harvestable grafts has matched or
» surpassed strip. Please remember that one of strips main disadvantages is
» that individual laxity becomes a factor with each slice being taken. At
» some point the patient will no longer have the possibility to harvest more,
» or risk serious complications.
»
» With FUE it is really up to the patient how far he wants to go in terms of
» thinning his donor area. Thinning the donor area is desirable since,
» especially for those with higher NW classifications. A thinner donor on a
» nw6 will better match the overal density.
»
» I would not be suprised if we start seeing 7000+ FUE cases during 2009.
»
» ps : for the critics : patients are informed that after extracting 25% of
» the donor reserves noticible thinning will likely be visible at very short
» hair lenght, FUE is not magic:-)
I have posted this before but it seems pertinent to the discussion as in cases FUE will alter laxity and cause fibrosis that will impair the healing of the donor and potentially limit the extracts available regardless of the density.
"FUE is generally considered suited to smaller procedures, opening the donor surface area after multiple strip procedures or in repair cases when the donor has little laxity or multiple scarring from previous poor procedures. Larger FUE sessions are possible but in a smaller % of HT candidates because the follicular units available will be less if you stick to an educated extraction pattern and only up to 30% harvesting per cm2.
A Strip procedure will change the laxity of the donor as most are well aware, so can FUE if not performed well. Although FUE is a single punch extraction the technique, tool size, surface area harvested and extraction pattern can have just as detrimental effects on the laxity when looking at future procedures.
The technique is something that is learnt and a talent, knowing the variants in skin textures, healing of different skin types, the splay of the hair within the scalp, how the exit point of the hair can be deceiving on where the hair angle lies within the skin. The “touch” of the doctor to be able to “feel” the FU is something that comes with time. For example a mechanical drill type tool maybe quicker and more efficient in terms of speed but it will carry no natural feeling between you and the skin, may it even jumps/slides slightly when entering the skin causing greater scarring and can be harder to control depth. Even by hand if the extraction is taken too deep it will cause unnecessary fibrosis under the skin surface and this will affect the laxity longer term.
Tool size has an obvious factor, the larger the size the more likely to leave larger “hair less areas”, more skin tissue is removed and therefore wider peripheral trauma to the surrounding skin and FU’s; this could in the future reduce the potential numbers further, changing the skin elasticity.
The surface area and extraction pattern; many like the idea of partial shaving, especially when the number of grafts is under 1000, it seems an ideal way to have FUE if you can hide the extraction area under the surrounding hair while it grows back. The problem arises when a minimal area of extraction is targeted, be it a long band shaved or a larger “box” like area shaved. Firstly the area chosen to harvest will probably be the area of highest density in the donor, hence being able to over harvest bit not make a great impact change on the density compared to the surrounding slightly lower density areas. This will impact future procedures, especially if a Strip is required because the area may have lost 40% plus of the FU it had reducing the Strip numbers and making the extraction from the Strip harder having to cut the FU out around the surrounding scar tissue. Then the laxity changes in a smaller area if over harvested, maybe not obviously to the touch but certainly when again trying to extract later, be it with either technique.
Another problem with partial shaving is long term always, never short term; the likelihood is the total number of FU available will be reduced if a continued partial shaving protocol is followed. Moving from one area to the other with slightly different hair characteristics and different size hair groupings as you move around the scalp slightly defeats one of the true benefits of FUE, being able to open the donor surface area up to it’s widest possible point and determine the FU total then with an educated extraction pattern remove over the entire area. This will have the least impact on the density of the donor, cosmetically more pleasing if the hair is kept short, and from a long term aspect causes minimum trauma to the donor as a whole because the extraction is spread not localised in a small condensed area. Condensing the area will not just effect that area, it is like throwing a stone into water and the ripples move outwards, the effects spread; the smaller the stone less impact the larger the stone the greater surface impact and peripheral impact, so minimising the impact by spreading the extraction points as far as possible with only preserve your donor and minimise the trauma."
» The reason that many have not taken up the mantle is that
» » FUE cannot extract the numbers required for the long term needs of
» most.
» » These needs are the fact that most will progress at least to class V
» and
» » require 7000FU at least. FUE can often only use 4000-5000 max from the
» » donor and often only 3500 at the 28% mark. Strip alone doubles this.
» »
» » FUE does allow body hair to be used but the quality of body hair is
» only
» » applicable for 25% (that’s a guess) of patients.
»
»
» If you study the progress FUE has made in the last years you will realize
» that this technique has evolved at a much faster pace then strip surgery
» has in the past.
»
» Most of the FUE clinics/docs did not know which instruments to use, how to
» use them and how many grafts can be extracted before seeing visible
» thinning in the donor area. This takes time, efford and commitment.
»
» The FUE dedicated clinics (still very very few) have now reached a level
» where the number game in terms of harvestable grafts has matched or
» surpassed strip. Please remember that one of strips main disadvantages is
» that individual laxity becomes a factor with each slice being taken. At
» some point the patient will no longer have the possibility to harvest more,
» or risk serious complications.
»
» With FUE it is really up to the patient how far he wants to go in terms of
» thinning his donor area. Thinning the donor area is desirable since,
» especially for those with higher NW classifications. A thinner donor on a
» nw6 will better match the overal density.
»
» I would not be suprised if we start seeing 7000+ FUE cases during 2009.
»
» ps : for the critics : patients are informed that after extracting 25% of
» the donor reserves noticible thinning will likely be visible at very short
» hair lenght, FUE is not magic:-)
I am sorry but I don’t buy that, talk about reckless use of grafts, FUE is a very wasteful technique becuase you can only use about 25-30% of the available donor if you want to maintain that pristine look in the back. 25-30% is hardly enough for most balding men. FUE simply cannnot be a stand alone procedure for most guys. That’s a fact.
»
» I am sorry but I don’t buy that, talk about reckless use of grafts, FUE is
» a very wasteful technique becuase you can only use about 25-30% of the
» available donor if you want to maintain that pristine look in the back.
» 25-30% is hardly enough for most balding men. FUE simply cannnot be a
» stand alone procedure for most guys. That’s a fact.
You must be assuming that just about any patient can harvest 5000 or more grafts using strip. Lets face the truth, the higher you get on the nw scale the worse the donor area gets in most cases.
I know there are some nw6 getting 5000 or more grafts from a strip, but that is exeption and not the rule. Besides, If I where a nw6 I would not risk a big scar since there is always a chance that you will go to a thin nw7 and the scar will show eventually.
BTw, the pristine look is a no go when taking the strip route. Your options are limited as soon as the scalpel has done its job, fact.
Again, FUE will only look pristine up to a certain point and using the right tools and protocols.
First of all tools should be kept as small as possible. Secondly the donor area management requires using the entire donor area for each FUE session, makes mathematical sense, just like BHT describes.
However, no matter how good the instruments, technique or donor management, there will be a point when the donor will show signs of missing hairs at very short hair lenght, period.
So, if you are planning to go for megassesion FUE or strip and you are not willing to accept either a linear scar or hardly visible spots of missing hair at very short hair length then you should stay away from hair transplantation.
Facit, FUE can be a stand alone procedure, just like strip.
» »
» » I am sorry but I don’t buy that, talk about reckless use of grafts, FUE
» is
» » a very wasteful technique becuase you can only use about 25-30% of the
» » available donor if you want to maintain that pristine look in the back.
» » 25-30% is hardly enough for most balding men. FUE simply cannnot be a
» » stand alone procedure for most guys. That’s a fact.
»
» You must be assuming that just about any patient can harvest 5000 or more
» grafts using strip. Lets face the truth, the higher you get on the nw
» scale the worse the donor area gets in most cases.
»
» I know there are some nw6 getting 5000 or more grafts from a strip, but
» that is exeption and not the rule. Besides, If I where a nw6 I would not
» risk a big scar since there is always a chance that you will go to a thin
» nw7 and the scar will show eventually.
»
»
» BTw, the pristine look is a no go when taking the strip route. Your
» options are limited as soon as the scalpel has done its job, fact.
»
» Again, FUE will only look pristine up to a certain point and using the
» right tools and protocols.
» First of all tools should be kept as small as possible. Secondly the donor
» area management requires using the entire donor area for each FUE session,
» makes mathematical sense, just like BHT describes.
» However, no matter how good the instruments, technique or donor
» management, there will be a point when the donor will show signs of missing
» hairs at very short hair lenght, period.
»
» So, if you are planning to go for megassesion FUE or strip and you are not
» willing to accept either a linear scar or hardly visible spots of missing
» hair at very short hair length then you should stay away from hair
» transplantation.
»
»
»
» Facit, FUE can be a stand alone procedure, just like strip.
Perhaps I don’t fully understand this but to me, you simply can’t argue with the math, the # of donor follicles is fixed for every person, so over any given area in the donor, isn’t it true that you can remove all the follicles using strip but whereas with fue you have to leave every other follicle untouched or the whole area will be bald???
»
» Perhaps I don’t fully understand this but to me, you simply can’t argue
» with the math, the # of donor follicles is fixed for every person, so over
» any given area in the donor, isn’t it true that you can remove all the
» follicles using strip but whereas with fue you have to leave every other
» follicle untouched or the whole area will be bald???
Let me try to explain this.
Using the strip method the doc can cut out a strip from the donor area. Maybe he can do it twice, but there are limits to the amount of tissue one can cut out of someones scalp. At some point there will be so much tension that any further attempt to cut out a new strip will lead to serious complications.
On the other hand there is no significant laxity change involved in FUE. Furthermore one can harvest from the entire donor area. The donor area from which grafts can be taken is usually between 150 and 200 cm2. Give an average donor density of 80 grafts per cm2 it gives 12000 to 16000 grafts total.
In theory one could take out all grafts in that area and redistribute them. Obviously this is not a good idea since the entire donor area would be bald.
If we would harvest up to 50% of the available grafts in the donor area it would produce 6000 to 8000 grafts, even for persons that have very bad laxity !
Some more advantage that come with FUE >
If the patient has some minituarisation in his donor the FUE doc can score out the more healthy grafts
A strip needs to be slivered and discected by many technicians using scalpels. I need not to mention that each contact that is made between technician scalpels and the grafts is breathing ground for graft damage. During FUE there is no contact possible between grafts and scalpels. There is much less graft handling involved, thus limiting errors.
Graft selections is possible using FUE. In a strip you need to use what is available.
80 density is relatively high as an average candidate and the signs of miniaturisation have to be taken into account if you have a harvesting protocol other wise the patient risks having their donor thinned even more in the future. The basic premiss is that FUE is in the correct hands and with an intelligent protocol a very good technique, what lets it down is either poor workmanship in respect of the physical extraction or an understanding of the limitations. For example, over harvesting a donor with FUE WILL cause laxity changes and WILL make it harder to extract grafts with another procedure regardless it being FUE or FUT/Strip. An incorrect technique WILL cause fibrosis under the skin changing the character of the skin no different to FUT/Strip. This picture below shows the extraction of Strip after FUE was performed, you can easily see the pattern of extraction is poor and the areas under the skin where penetration is too deep and caused unnecessary fibrosis, leading to the Strip being that much harder to be taken and making further extraction with FUE almost impossible.
» Warning: Vomiting is Likely After Seeing How Strips Are
» Removed In These Photos
»
» After seeing these photos I’m SOOOOOOOOOOOO #$%@%#$ Happy I chose FUE over
» Strip. This site is a Must See and Read. Very informative and if you want
» to debate the narrator… you definetly can’t debate the photos… pictures
» never lie. Check This Out…
»
» The Hair Transplant Industry is a Disgrace
Hmmm time for dinner, but after going to that video im no longer hungry.
Couldnt agree more with you Mj. When I see photos like that it reminds me of Hanibal Lecter eating that guys brains. No thanks.
» 80 density is relatively high as an average candidate and the signs of
» miniaturisation have to be taken into account
Bhr,
Can you please explain the readers here what happens to patients who have miniaturasation in the donor, in respect to strip surgery.
How do you avoid taking out the miniaturisation grafts?
What do you do with the harvested miniaturisation grafts ?
Bart
»
»
» Bhr,
» Can you please explain the readers here what happens to patients who have
» miniaturasation in the donor, in respect to strip surgery.
»
» How do you avoid taking out the miniaturisation grafts?
» What do you do with the harvested miniaturisation grafts ?
»
» Bart
And could someone please explain what happens to hairs within a strip that are in resting-phase (tellogen?. Can the techs see the follicles minus any hair - so they can be then dissected and used? Or are they invisible and thrown away as collatoral damage?
» »
» »
» » Bhr,
» » Can you please explain the readers here what happens to patients who
» have
» » miniaturasation in the donor, in respect to strip surgery.
» »
» » How do you avoid taking out the miniaturisation grafts?
» » What do you do with the harvested miniaturisation grafts ?
» »
» » Bart
»
» And could someone please explain what happens to hairs within a strip that
» are in resting-phase (tellogen?. Can the techs see the follicles minus any
» hair - so they can be then dissected and used? Or are they invisible and
» thrown away as collatoral damage?
I am afraid that you will never get an honoust answers to this one
Thanks for pointing that one out, I completely forgot!
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