Indo/Chromo for around 5 weeks now and where I once had only vellus is now growing TINY dark hairs. I don’t want to get anyone too excited but it definitely appears there is some sort of regrowth going on. I am fairly young and already had a lot of vellus so perhaps that is why I am seeing it so soon. I will try and snap some decent pictures, but might be kind of hard as the hairs are still so small.
I’m using like 3-4 pumps… Usually 2 pumps on each side of my hairline…
Alec and any others, how much are you guys using?
“Not me. How much are you using?”
I use around 3-4 pumps, usually 2 pumps at each side of my hairline.
Alec and other guys, how much are you using?
I first apply minox foam then 2 pumps of each chromo/indo after I shower twice a day. @ Darkcloud, I had same early aggressive vellus regrowth and overall healthy hair instead of dieing scalp. I think that a younger guy like you has a better chance of regrowth. I shaved my villous and now it is coming back and I am monitoring its regrowth from shaven down. keep me posted on your progress. Alec
Alec, I’m sure I am not alone in being grateful for your being a guinea pig for these products!
Clearly the indo and cromo have contributed to stopping your hair-loss. Since there are about 4 ways PGD2 can be inhibited or blocked (mast cell stabilization, synthase deactivation, competitive inhibition, and receptor antagonism), and cromo + indo + ramatroban does all of that, it makes sense to use cromo + indo to achieve stabilization - to stop balding.
However, mast cell inhibition and synthase deactivation, and possibly competitive inhibition, may reduce the activity of PGF2a and PGE2 as well.
I have been thinking a protocol like the following might make sense:
Phase 1 - stopping hair loss
Use cromo + indo (and ramatroban and d-cloprostenol if you can afford them) for 8-12 weeks or until no more shedding is observed
Phase 2 - creating regrowth (hopefully)
Drop cromo and indo for at 2-4 weeks and use d-cloprostenol and ramatroban together. Ramatroban should inhibit PGD2 activity at the receptor while giving the various other prostaglandins and growth factors a chance to work, and the d-cloprostenol should have a good chance at regrowth since it is like an ultra-powerful version of latanoprost/bimatoprost/etc.
The poor man’s version would be an initial 8-12 weeks of just cromo + indo, then 2-4 week blocks of cromo + indo alternating with 2-4 week blocks of nothing but d-cloprostenol and ramatroban.
The rich man’s version would be an initial 8-12 weeks of cromo, indo, ramatroban, and cloprostenol, and simply drop the cromo + indo (while continuing ramatroban + d-cloprostenol) for 2-4 weeks at a time.
The ramatroban should be sufficient to prevent further hair loss but probably won’t be as likely to inhibit the desirable regrowth effects. The d-cloprostenol is probably, currently, the best chance at regrowth seeing there is direct human and primate evidence that PGF2a agonists can cause regrowth under perfect conditions.
The question is how to achieve those conditions, i.e. how not to interfere with regrowth, while still preventing progression of alopecia.
where can I purchase d-cloprostenol?
Thank you for the advice Brazil, I plan to try that plan immediately. Im going to drop the Chromo-Indo and keep up the Cloprostenol and Ramatroban. I shaved my vellus so when they come back in a week or so it will be interesting if they will grow to full terminal.
Today is my first day of new hair growth cocktail. I am now only on Minox. Cloprostenol, and Ramatroban. I put the Chromo/Ino aside for a while and see how this works. After 1 day, no side effects
Alec,
Thanks for the link. I didn’t realize Iron Dragon had it…
Just curious, why whould you stop the chrom/indo if its working for you? Why not add the cloprostenol?
Since my initial reply, I think I have noticed something that may be related to the Ramatroban. The last couple of mornings, about an hour and a half after applying the Ramatroban, I’ve had brief moments of minor lightheadedness/weakness. The first day that it happened I wondered if it was the Ramatroban. The second day raises the likelihood to a near certainty. I am going to cut back to two pumps in the morning and in the evening (I was doing three).
I’ve never been able to use minoxidil because it messed with my blood pressure. I hope I’m not equally sensitive to Ramatroban. If I am, though, I’ll just go back to the Chromo/Indo.
i don’t totally understand the science but I am open to try new things since I have tried it all. Brazil1 and previously some other posters (jarjar)pointed out to me that the Chromo/Indo inhibit cells to stop mast cell production, once this is done then hair loss stops, as it did with me after only a few days. Step 2 it seems is to enduce growth with PGE production, which Cloprostenol does in tandem with Ramatroban. Im probably way off base with my science but this is the basic theory that I am listening to and experimenting with. day 2 of minox, Cloprostenol, and Ramatroban and all is going well. I’ll report if anything grows of course and I just shaved my vellus down to the base with a razor last week. it is growing back and Im trying to monitor the rate of growth. so far Im estimating that my vellus are growing about 50% slower than a healthy terminal hair. These vellus grow to 1/4 or 1/2 inch and stop, we will see. Alec
Hey Alec, did you notice any decrease in growth of healthy hairs with the indo/chromo combo?
This study was brought up a while ago about inhibiting mast cell degranulation (chromo) and how it could be negative for inducing anagen:
We have examined the possibility that an involvement in hair growth regulation is one of the still obscure physiological roles of mast cells (MC) in normal skin. Using the murine hair cycle as a model, we first studied the number, localization and granulation status of skin MC during the hair cycle of C57 BL-6 mice. Shortly after the induction of hair growth (anagen) in the back skin of mice with resting (telogen) follicles, a sharp decline in the number of Giemsa-stainable MC was detected by morphometry. This was evident in depilation-induced, pharmacologically induced, and spontaneous anagen. By light and electron microscopy, the anagen-associated decline was correlated with the occurrence of substantial MC degranulation. In vivo, the IgE-independent MC secretagogues, compound 48/80 and ACTH, induced anagen in mouse telogen follicles after intracutaneous administration, while inhibitors of mast cell degranulation (cromoglycate, tiacrilast) and antagonists of selected MC products (clemastin, ranitidine, ketanserin) significantly retarded the induced development of anagen follicles in these mice. It is suggested that MC act via their secretory products as stimulators of anagen development in mice and that the murine hair cycle is an excellent model for studying growth regulatory functions of MC in developmentally regulated systems.
didnt slow my healthy hairs growing at all, In fact my healthy hair looks as good as it ever has, feels thicker and strong. The chromo/indo grew vellus quite well, just didnt develop into terminal. Hopefully the new strategy will create proper environment for healthy hairs to grow
I attempted to snap some photos today but unfortunately they didn’t turn out that great. Figured I would share anyway. You can see those dark follicle like specks in my NW2 zone, those are all new for the most part. Out of them is growing VERY tiny dark hairs that I am hoping grow out to full terminal. Anyways, there appears to be at least some minor re-growth going on so I will continue to keep you guys updated.
Alec your post seems to accurately reflect the literature and our current understanding.
The only slight mistake is you referred to PGE2 - cloprostenol is an F2 alpha (not E2) agonist, which despite the hype around E2, is much more likely to cause regrowth based on published data.
PGE2 isn’t a bad thing by any means, just doesn’t do much by itself, see this from the iron dragon newsletter:
PGE2 and its analogs (such as viprostol) have thus far been found ineffective in solo trials, but caused hair-growth when combined with a PGF2a analog [7,8].
Thanks guys, I think we are really close to making this work. I can feel it.
Why would staying on indo/chromo not create an optimal regrowth environment? Would they retard new growth in some way? Why not just stay on everything?
Hey HolyFlea, hope all is well. check out Brazil1 post above, he makes a good argument that now that my hairloss has stopped might be better to go with Ramatroban and Cloprostenol only and sees if that creates better environment for regrowth. We are on new ground here so we need to try different things. My hair stopped falling out on day3 of Indo/Chromo and peach fuzz appeared and halted. I haven’t used the chromo or Indo in 3 days, just showered and couldn’t find one hair that had fallen out. I have white shower and used to after towel drying hair shake it off over the shower so hair wouldn’t get all over bathroom floor. I don’t even look anymore because my hair loss has stopped for over 6 months now and today I did because I am looking to see if a temporary stop use of chromo/Indo makes me shed. currently Im on cloprostenol, ramatroban, and minox applying twice a day.
