One thing all people here should understand

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
The cosmetic surgery “industry” in India is extremely competitive and cutthroat. Putting photoshopped photos on websites is par for the course, it’s standard operating procedure. If you don’t do it there, there’s something wrong with you. These guys hire the same website developers (there are hundreds to choose from, but they all work the same way), who circulate stock “patient photos”, often doctored by the web developers themselves, because they know what the doctors want. And because it’s the norm, the doctors don’t object. Since everyone is doing it, each doctor feels he must go along with the pack or lose patients.[/quote]

Do you think that makes fra*dulent behaviour acceptable?

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
The trouble is that on these forums there are a lot of impressionable people who literally will fly around the world to a succession of HT clinics, whatever doctor is offering the latest technique (proven or not), and when they inevitably become disappointed, they jump on the forums and condemn those doctors as charlatans who “butchered” their scalps, with their evil new experimental techniques. And then a bunch of morons on the forums pile on the bandwagon supporting these people, condemning all experimental procedures and new ideas as fr@ud, and the doctors as quacks and butchers.[/quote]

There’s nothing wrong with experimental techniques. If people understand the risks, know that it might fail and get compensated for their willingness to take the risks, then why not, I think everybody agrees.

However that’s not the case here. First of all (most) patients had to pay Nigam a great sum of money. Secondly Nigam didn’t say his techniques were experimental, he claimed they worked, while he knew that they didn’t. Tom said even Nigam’s employees are sick and tired of having to perform a surgery which they know doesn’t even work. How you can defend that, is really beyond me. This is not experimentation. This is stealing money by selling worthless therapies, advertising them like they work, while you know the contrary is true.

The problem is, some posters here think Nigam actually cares about experimentation and finding a cure. He doesn’t. All he wants is your money and that’s obvious if you look at his past. He’s marketed weight-loss solutions over the phone and claimed to be a yoga mediation guru. If there’s an opportunity to exploit a group of desperate, gullible sufferers, he’ll jump on it.

I also think it’s hilarious that some people believe Nigam’s experimentation could possibly lead to anything. :smiley: Might as well put a bunch of monkeys in a lab and hope they stumble on the cure too. We have top level scientists around the world working on this problem, it’s received millions and millions of dollars in funding, but Nigam, with his extremely questionable background and reputation, is going to find a cell-based solution to hair loss? :lol2:

It is obvious to anyone with a brain here that Nigam’s procedures are all experimental. Just about all his posts are about how he’s trying out various ideas. No doubt Nigam makes overly ambitious claims and falls way short. But anyone not bright enough to understand that EVERYTHING in this forum is experimental is in the wrong forum.

We need a new private forum where the above is posted as a disclaimer and repeated ad nauseum. The only way into the forum is to sign your name to the disclaimer indicating in no uncertain terms that you fully understand this. Anyone incapable of understanding it gets immediate locked out for his own safety. This is to protect the person from making stupid decisions due to his low intelligence level.

i share your view to some extent, Nigam posted the following about Tom, if what Nigam said was true, then Tom clearly knew that he was getting something experimental. I always want to have a small session with Woods, you don’t see me asking Woods to sponsor my airfare, that s ludicrous,Woods would be laughing his ass off if I had the nerve to ask for that.

below is what Nigam wrote in another thread about Tom’s treatment:

"He also asked me to sponsor his trips to Belgium. I agreed and paid him as he had promised that he will shave his donor and get it independently documented by Dr.Mwamba. I also requested Dr.Mwamba to give him free 1200 plus grafts at Mumbai to Monitor the de novo doubling protocol as he had agreed to visit Dr.Mwamba’s clinic and shave his donor for hair counts.

He also requested me to sponsor his San Francisco air tickets so that he can show his donor and recipient regrowth to lot of other people who wanted to see his progress. I paid the same to him too. Boldy is witness to all the above.
He threatened me that he can do damage in the forums as the money transferred for his San Francisco trip was getting delayed,"

It is bizarre that a guy who lives in France is asking a doctor in India to sponsor his trips to Belgium.

Roger, freddie,
I will be sharing,a few new developments in a weeks time.
Could have shared now itself,but the rival( docs) are keeping me busy and trying their best to stop me…as you know,this is all part of the game,whenever a new innovation is percieved as a threat to traditional solutions.but if not me ,someone else will come out with the same or improved version…no one should be threatened…
My abstract is also accepted at the worlds foremost hair research congress for oral presentation,will revert in a day or two…provided the rivals do not intensify the battle…

[quote]Experimental treatments should all be voluntary with the person having sufficient intelligence to understand he is taking on serious risk with the likelyhood of success small and the likelyhood of failure or catastrophic failure high.

The problem is, this is not exactly how things have been portrayed thus far.

[postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]

I am a realist. If I thought there was any realistic chance of Dr. Nigam reversing my hairloss back to a NW 2, I’d get on a plane right now for India and visit Dr. Nigam. I haven’t seen any kind of photos or indisputable evidence from Dr. Nigam thus far that would warrant that decision. But I’m still very, very interested in his research work, I respect him for it, and I appreciate the fact that he’s doing it.

The trouble is that on these forums there are a lot of impressionable people who literally will fly around the world to a succession of HT clinics, whatever doctor is offering the latest technique (proven or not), and when they inevitably become disappointed, they jump on the forums and condemn those doctors as charlatans who “butchered” their scalps, with their evil new experimental techniques. And then a bunch of morons on the forums pile on the bandwagon supporting these people, condemning all experimental procedures and new ideas as fr@ud, and the doctors as quacks and butchers.

I have NO sympathy for these people. They are adults and they assumed the risk. They read and saw everything, all the photos, all the evidence, that was available to everyone else. They were privy to all the debates, all the exact same information we all saw. Yet they jumped head first into the unknown.

I am sick and tired of these people being held up regularly as “poster children” for doctors like Nigam, Gho, etc. destroying their lives.

Truth is, you take the exact same risks with any HT surgeon. If you go to any HT surgeon in the USA, you have the same risks of your scalp being mangled or disfigured, losing all your usable donor hair, getting permanent, unsightly scars, being a poor responder and having the procedure fail. It’s a consequence that comes with the territory.

At least the cell therapies that Dr. Nigam is researching, if used alone WITHOUT any HT surgery, have a possibility down the road of making slicing and dicing the scalp obsolete. Let’s let him do his work without defaming him and lynching him regularly on the internet.

How many American doctors do you see doing this kind of research? Last time I checked, it was none. And oh, by the way, it’s illegal in America. You see, the FDA changed one word in a regulation, 21 CFR 1271, back in 2006, officially making it illegal for doctors to inject patients’ own cells back into them, without going through a long, expensive FDA approval process. That’s why you see no doctors doing this right now. Somehow, PRP was exempted from this regulation, because it’s a blood product and blood is removed and put back into patients all the time. But any other type of cell – nope. It violates FDA regulations.

There are many, many fast-talking, hard-sell charlatans in the US hair transplant industry, who hawk phony cures (like PRP, Acell, etc.), new procedures which are almost as bad as old procedures, etc.

They may not all be putting photoshopped pictures on their websites, but India is a bit behind the times. Dr. Anjali Shere of Mumbai, who until very recently (about 1 month ago) had a website full of the most outrageously photoshopped pictures anyone’s ever seen, was the one condemning Dr. Nigam for (1) not being a real doctor; (2) stealing her photos (I have to laugh at that one) and (3) lying to and cheating patients. Meanwhile she says on her website that “Dr Anjali Shere provide the best hair transplant in Mumbai”.

The cosmetic surgery “industry” in India is extremely competitive and cutthroat. Putting photoshopped photos on websites is par for the course, it’s standard operating procedure. If you don’t do it there, there’s something wrong with you. These guys hire the same website developers (there are hundreds to choose from, but they all work the same way), who circulate stock “patient photos”, often doctored by the web developers themselves, because they know what the doctors want. And because it’s the norm, the doctors don’t object. Since everyone is doing it, each doctor feels he must go along with the pack or lose patients. Regulation is weak, oversight by the medical boards is almost nonexistent. India is a country of over 1 billion people (more than 3 Americas) and it’s generally a poor country outside the big cities. Unless lots of people are dying outright from medical negligence, government and medical boards don’t have a lot of time or money to go around policing each and every infraction by a doctor.

Polished, sophisticated American-style sc@mming, where the sc@mmer is very aware of what patients know and fine-tunes his sc@m to evade detection, has largely not reached India yet. American HT docs use double-talk which technically isn’t quite a lie, but is far from the truth. They use patient before-and-after photos or other evidence in a much more sophisticated way, appearing to be legit while not disclosing that the patients are also on drug therapy, by using cherry-picked photos, or even by not showing photos at all, or the same 5 photos from 10 year ago, claiming that they can’t show more for legal reasons, and giving such a slick psychologically-tuned pitch that prospective patients are overwhelmed by the BS and sold without even seeing any convincing evidence. American doctors use every trick in the book. Indian HT docs are about 20-25 years behind their American colleagues in this regard.[/quote]

Dr Nigam, the latest rumour in the grapevine is that you’ve been injecting illegal animal grade serum into your patients (at least somebody from the UK) and therefore have been endangering their lives and exposed them to tremendous risks. Can you comment on that please ?

I’m not sure exactly what sort of private forum you are looking for. One where those who question or disagree with you are unwelcome?

Obviously, we are all aware that essentially all the potential treatments that we might talk about here are experimental. Nobody here is complaining about the experimental nature of what Nigam is supposedly attempting to do.

You say that people should all be aware of the experimental nature of what Nigam is doing, and be able to partake at their own risk. Of course that’s true. People are very welcome and able to decide to risk their money, time and most importantly donor hair if they feel Nigam’s procedure has merit.

However, we also have a right and an obligation to also talk about our misgivings about Nigam, and if we feel he is engaging in unethical behavior, to discuss that, and to make those people aware of this.

I’m not sure how you could possibly have a problem with that.

I personally have no interest in a ‘private’ forum where critical thinking and dissent is discouraged. I’d much prefer to have a forum where people can discuss and disagree with each other about things without being called ‘monkeys’ or whatever other playground insult people somehow feel is appropriate to use here.

Some of the comments have been removed.

I suggest you all revisit this post:
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-126599-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

No unsubstantiated allegations or accusations of any kind shall be tolerated. If someone has definitive proof that Dr. Nigam has not been honest about any matter pertaining to his practice, please start a new thread, itemize each allegation and back it up. You are not allowed to keep repeating that someone is deceitful or untrustworthy and not back up your accusations.

A wanted man it seems: http://www.mid-day.com/articles/mumbai-cops-are-shielding-doctor-accused-of-cheating/15102051

We look forward to the new news .

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by walrus[/postedby]
A wanted man it seems: [/quote]

<>

All that tabloid BS aside, I’m hoping the private forum comes into existence.

I don’t see any other way because every thread on cell therapy has been
hijacked and side tracked with a load of nonsense.

I do agree that many of Nigam’s problems are self-inflicted. He’s a lightning
rod for controversy. For example, claiming the ability to change a NW6 into
NW2 before the fact.

I keep reminding him not to make outlandish claims unless he has iron clad
proof to back it up. But his claims come fast & furious. I hope he learns
from all the negative attention he’s attracting. Inevitably if this keeps up,
even his supporters (like me) will give up the fight and let him be consumed
by the hoards of wild monkeys. Lets hope it does not come to that.

Anyway good to see Nigam is still alive & kicking. I’m hoping he posts
something on his cell therapy research. That picture of a petri dish full of
cell cultures posted by hairlife earlier was interesting.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
All that tabloid BS aside, I’m hoping the private forum comes into existence.[/quote]

I think that would be a great idea. Just like when Iron_Man and Stevie.Dee were spamming the forum with Gho posts, I think we should keep the Nigam topics in a separate, private forum which only a select few (Freddie555, roger_that) can view and access.

Since you’re such a big proponent of Nigam’s experimentation, I’d also encourage you to fly out to India, get injected with his hair loss treatments, and report back to everyone.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
It is bizarre that a guy who lives in France is asking a doctor in India to sponsor his trips to Belgium.[/quote]

I strongly believed in nigam much more than anyone else here. He paid me half of the ticket to come in india (for my third trip… I let you calculate the cost for my total failed case) because I personally brought dr mwamba with me to india. I traveled to brussels first before india and took the same airplane then the dr.

I wanted the dr nigam technique being tested by a third part. I really helped him and many peoples here traveled to india because of me and my posts. This is why I told the truth now. His technique doesnt work. Worst: he plays not onyl with hope of people and money but also their own life.

You dont know what he inject you in your arm etc. Personally I asked to not inject me anything but he did. I know some people who then got strong sick after that.

The animal serum story injected is not a surprise to me…

Following his hair multiplication stuff, I got big shedding, he told me its normal, but I still have not recover anything… Magic isnt ?

At the end I spent lot of money to travel to india, brussels and even pay for his bullsht (5k$) to get my donor depleted and get a normal hair transplant I should have performed directly with Dr Mwamba. The funny things is dr nigam explain as if he gave me a present.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairlife[/postedby]
We look forward to the new news .[/quote]

Hairlife, Nigam injected you too, right ? Do you know exactly with what he injected you ? Did you see official boxes/papers for the injections ? This UK guy said that Nigam injected him with animal grade serum. I’m pretty sure you can go to jail for that, even in India, if its true … Even in India you can’t totally ignore patient health and inject animal grade serum and bring him into great risks.

We don’t need no private forum! all we need is better moderation.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by helpmeout[/postedby]
We don’t need no private forum! all we need is better moderation.[/quote]

Well, I really like Freddy’s idea of a private forum. Create a private forum where only Freddy, Roger_that, JarJarbinx and Nigam can have access too. Then everybody is happy !

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by helpmeout[/postedby]
We don’t need no private forum! all we need is better moderation.[/quote]

We have stepped up moderation efforts substantially since the beginning of this year. As a matter of fact, many posters have been banned already.

Question to Freddie555, Roger_That and others with similar objectives: say if we are to create a private forum and assuming that this very thread is the first topic being discussed in the private forum. What are some of the posters (based on their comments in this thread only) that you would not want to see participating in the private forum? Again, based on their comments in this very thread only, assuming every poster in this thread is new to the forum with no history of posting at all.

I just want to get a better sense of YOUR idea of a private forum to see if we are on the same page.