jarjarbinx, are you really that delusional to think that it simply hasn’t occurred to histogen that they could release outside of the US? Do you think that your idea is so brilliant that it simply hasnt “sunk into their brain”?
You can rest assured that they will have their own justified reasons not to release their treatment before FDA approval. They have a lot of money at stake and they probably have given these issues a lot more thought than you ever will. Terrorizing them on the phone is not going to change their business plan.
» no cajones.
»
» 90% of the population are a bunch of drones, including 90% of HM staff. 10%
» of any population, at most, thinks outside the box. People are lazy. They
» take the path of least resistance. Thinking independently outside-the-box
» requires effort. 90% of the population is too lazy and doesn’t have enough
» character for creative thinking.
»
» I talked to Histogen on the phone a few months ago. I talked to them about
» releasing early in some country outside the US so the FDA could not stand
» in the way. My initial statement included the point about releasing it
» early outside the US to avoid FDA restrictions but she still said “The FDA
» won’t allow us to release the treatment until it completes all clinical
» studies.” I said, “Let me repeat myself, release it early outside the US
» where the FDA has no control.” She said, “We don’t know the correct dose
» and stuff like that” and I said, “Wait till after phasse 2 studies are
» complete so you will have that stuff down pat pretty well.” She went back
» to the FDA issue and said, “The FDA regulations do not permit early
» release.” I said, “The FDA does not decide what happens outside the US.”
» She said, “Our business plan is built on FDA approval.” I said, "You can
» still do your FDA-based studies to fruition. You could release somewhere
» in the world (after phase 2 when you have the facts you need to make the
» treatment work) while at the same time pursuing FDA-based clinical trials
» through phase 1, 2, and 3. She said, something else about FDA and I said
» “The FDA has nothing to do with what you do outside the jurisdiction of the
» FDA.” She kept talking FDA sh!t. It isn’t sinking into her brain. She
» doesn’t get it that the FDA does not control what happens outside the US -
» that there are places where it can be released early outside the US.
»
» Americans have FDA approval so imbeded in their consiousness that they
» can’t imagine the possibility of releasing a product early somewhere
» outside the reach of the FDA. The things I was saying just weren’t sinking
» into her brain. She did not come up with one good reason for refusing to
» release early (after phase 2) in some location outside the jurisdiction of
» the FDA. She simply kept sayinn “The FDA won’t allow it” over and over
» again. She is so brainwashed into thinking that the FDA controls when she
» can release her technology that she simply can’t consider the possibility
» that she might be wrong.
»
» She could have two things going on simultaneously. She could have the
» early market release going on (after phase 2 is complete) somewhere where
» she can release it early, while at the same time still doing clinical
» studies for the FDA but when the idea of doing this comes up she goes into
» some kind of “FDA malfunction default mode” where all she can say is “FDA,
» FDA, FDA” without even allowing her brain to consider the possibility that
» she could release it outside the jurisdiction of the FDA.
»
» She is definitely a drone and only another drone wouldn’t realize that.
» Drones can be reached if you pressure them enough. it’s hard, but it can
» be done.
Are you so dumb that you don’t get it that they are slaves to in-the-box thinking much the same as yourself. You are basically full of sh!t -talking out your arse. I have spoken with them and when I querried them on this issue their big obstacle is the FDA.
» jarjarbinx, are you really that delusional to think that it simply hasn’t
» occurred to histogen that they could release outside of the US? Do you
» think that your idea is so brilliant that it simply hasnt “sunk into their
» brain”?
»
» You can rest assured that they will have their own justified reasons not to
» release their treatment before FDA approval. They have a lot of money at
» stake and they probably have given these issues a lot more thought than you
» ever will. Terrorizing them on the phone is not going to change their
» business plan.
»
»
» » no cajones.
» »
» » 90% of the population are a bunch of drones, including 90% of HM staff.
» 10%
» » of any population, at most, thinks outside the box. People are lazy.
» They
» » take the path of least resistance. Thinking independently
» outside-the-box
» » requires effort. 90% of the population is too lazy and doesn’t have
» enough
» » character for creative thinking.
» »
» » I talked to Histogen on the phone a few months ago. I talked to them
» about
» » releasing early in some country outside the US so the FDA could not
» stand
» » in the way. My initial statement included the point about releasing it
» » early outside the US to avoid FDA restrictions but she still said “The
» FDA
» » won’t allow us to release the treatment until it completes all clinical
» » studies.” I said, “Let me repeat myself, release it early outside the
» US
» » where the FDA has no control.” She said, “We don’t know the correct
» dose
» » and stuff like that” and I said, “Wait till after phasse 2 studies are
» » complete so you will have that stuff down pat pretty well.” She went
» back
» » to the FDA issue and said, “The FDA regulations do not permit early
» » release.” I said, “The FDA does not decide what happens outside the US.”
»
» » She said, “Our business plan is built on FDA approval.” I said, "You can
» » still do your FDA-based studies to fruition. You could release
» somewhere
» » in the world (after phase 2 when you have the facts you need to make the
» » treatment work) while at the same time pursuing FDA-based clinical
» trials
» » through phase 1, 2, and 3. She said, something else about FDA and I
» said
» » “The FDA has nothing to do with what you do outside the jurisdiction of
» the
» » FDA.” She kept talking FDA sh!t. It isn’t sinking into her brain. She
» » doesn’t get it that the FDA does not control what happens outside the US
» -
» » that there are places where it can be released early outside the US.
» »
» » Americans have FDA approval so imbeded in their consiousness that they
» » can’t imagine the possibility of releasing a product early somewhere
» » outside the reach of the FDA. The things I was saying just weren’t
» sinking
» » into her brain. She did not come up with one good reason for refusing
» to
» » release early (after phase 2) in some location outside the jurisdiction
» of
» » the FDA. She simply kept sayinn “The FDA won’t allow it” over and over
» » again. She is so brainwashed into thinking that the FDA controls when
» she
» » can release her technology that she simply can’t consider the
» possibility
» » that she might be wrong.
» »
» » She could have two things going on simultaneously. She could have the
» » early market release going on (after phase 2 is complete) somewhere
» where
» » she can release it early, while at the same time still doing clinical
» » studies for the FDA but when the idea of doing this comes up she goes
» into
» » some kind of “FDA malfunction default mode” where all she can say is
» “FDA,
» » FDA, FDA” without even allowing her brain to consider the possibility
» that
» » she could release it outside the jurisdiction of the FDA.
» »
» » She is definitely a drone and only another drone wouldn’t realize that.
» » Drones can be reached if you pressure them enough. it’s hard, but it
» can
» » be done.
» »
» »
» » Then why don’t they do it? Why don’t they release this echnology early?
» » They could start making profits now, and lots of profits too, if they
» » released it early. So why don’t they do it? I will tell you why. They
» » don’t do it because they’re kind of sheep/drones. It’s just not
» something
» » that they would think of. They could release this stuff somewhere in
» the
» » world after phase 2 when they have dosing and all pretty much worked out
» » but they will not think of this on their own. Businesses are drones.
» They
» » would need to be pushed (boycott threat) to be gotten to do something
» like
» » this.
»
» Actually didn’t Histogen attempt just that?
Some of the posters are saying that they did attempt that but it has not been confirmed. If they did attempt it they did it too soon because they haven’t gotten enough info yet about dosing, injection depth level and stuff like that. They should have waited till after phase 2 or else they might not get the desired results. They need people who know how to inject this stuff doing so, so the doctor needs to be trained. If they have attempted an early release before completing phase is complete and the doc is trained how to inject then the results might just be bad because they didn’t have enough data yet and the doc wasn’t trained.
If histogen truly doesn’t work then you can give up on follica.
» jarjarbinx, are you really that delusional to think that it simply hasn’t
» occurred to histogen that they could release outside of the US? Do you
» think that your idea is so brilliant that it simply hasnt “sunk into their
» brain”?
»
There is no point even arguing with him. His posts are completely sophomoric and reaching a fevered pitch that hasn’t been seen since that clown steviedee/leeroy jenkins was posting here.
» » jarjarbinx, are you really that delusional to think that it simply
» hasn’t
» » occurred to histogen that they could release outside of the US? Do you
» » think that your idea is so brilliant that it simply hasnt “sunk into
» their
» » brain”?
» »
»
»
» There is no point even arguing with him. His posts are completely
» sophomoric and reaching a fevered pitch that hasn’t been seen since that
» clown steviedee/leeroy jenkins was posting here.
Your posts are ignorant and stupid. You belong up in a tree.
Mr. Z/Hairman posts = drones, straight-ahead plodders, no imagination, inside-the-box thinking, dullards.
» »
» »
» » Then why don’t they do it? Why don’t they release this echnology early?
» » They could start making profits now, and lots of profits too, if they
» » released it early. So why don’t they do it? I will tell you why. They
» » don’t do it because they’re kind of sheep/drones. It’s just not
» something
» » that they would think of. They could release this stuff somewhere in
» the
» » world after phase 2 when they have dosing and all pretty much worked out
» » but they will not think of this on their own. Businesses are drones.
» They
» » would need to be pushed (boycott threat) to be gotten to do something
» like
» » this.
»
» Actually didn’t Histogen attempt just that?
KO, you might actually be right. Roger_that might be right too, at least somewhat. Even if Histogen did release HSC early I’m sure it wasn’t to put FDA under pressure, but rather to sell some HSC and perhaps because they were getting a lot of calls requesting that they release it early.
I called Histogen on tuesday and asked them if they had released HSC to Akia and they did not say no. They said they told him to take HSC off his webpage and he did but they did not specifically state that they did not release HSC to him.
Starting back in 2010 I started complaining to Histogen asking them to release HSC to customers somewhere in the world. I complained to them for monhts. I’m sure other people were also asking them to release it early as well. I stopped complaining to them back in mid 2011 because they just kept saying “FDA FDA FDA” and I kept saying, “Release it outside the US where the FDA has no jurisdiction.” What if they did hear me and the other people who were likely also asking them to release HSC early? What if they released it early because of customer demand (me and others who were bugging them asking them to release it early) plus to make some money?
Upjohn did not release rogaine early when it was in trials and Merck did not release proscar early when it was in trials. But those are big companies. You can’t really talk to the people who are at the top of the food chain in Merck and Upjohn but Histogen is a small company and when people like me were calling and emailing our requests (for early release) may have gotten to the upper management. I was in email communication with the woman who is the daughter of the owner. When you call and ask for her she will come to the phone. I know this because I talked to her and she and I were emailing back and forth. I was communicating with the daughter of the owner and any other people who were calling and emailing (for early release) were likely also able to reach the daughter of the owner and the owner herself.
A woman owns this company - or at least used to when I was talking to them. Her daughter runs some part of PR or communications or something like that. I talked to her a lot over a year or year and a half. Of course a daughter and mother communicate with each other so she was carrying the message to her mother - who runs the company. Women are more compassionate than men. Men are kind of mean and ugly. Studies have established that women are more empathic than men. Women are also more reasonable than men. What if these are basically nice women (mother and daughter) and they talked to people like me, heard us, felt some empathy for us, and decided to release it early because they decided our position (that they could release it outside the US FDA’s juridiction) is a valid point, and their company did chose to serve the bald community so they wanted to create good will between themselves (Histogen) and the bald community?
» I dont think pressure will work as the insentive is allready there, i mean
» the huge profits that can be made , so we keep waiting .
Some people are now saying that Histogen did try to release it early to dr. named Akai in Japan. It is possible. Histogen may have released HSC early and they may have done so because I, and other people like me, were calling Histogen and emailing histogen, and we were complaining to them that we wanted access to HSC.
While you’re sitting on your hands doing nothing to help yourself people like me may have actually gotten Histogen to release HSC early no thanks to you. And if that is the case then it’s noteworthy that Dr. Akia’s version of HSC did not grow hair. That means that from the time the HSC left Histogen to the time Akia injected it into patient’s scalps, something went wrong. He may not have injected at the proper depth or something. And since it didn’t work Histogen may be doubly reluctant to release anymore early.
» Mr. Z/Hairman posts = drones, straight-ahead plodders, no imagination,
» inside-the-box thinking, dullards.
i hate to break it to you jarjarbinx… but your idea really isn’t so amazing that it requires a great thinker like yourself - let alone any form of thinking outside-of-the-box. In fact it is a first thought that occurs to anyone of average intelligence… I don’t think that it is an option that Histogen has failed to evaluate due to their drone-sheepishness, as you have so eloquently formulated.
» » Mr. Z/Hairman posts = drones, straight-ahead plodders, no imagination,
» » inside-the-box thinking, dullards.
»
» i hate to break it to you jarjarbinx… but your idea really isn’t so
» amazing that it requires a great thinker like yourself - let alone any form
» of thinking outside-of-the-box. In fact it is a first thought that occurs
» to anyone of average intelligence… I don’t think that it is an option that
» Histogen has failed to evaluate due to their drone-sheepishness, as you
» have so eloquently formulated.
Ha! The people like you dismiss the idea of a collective protest to the company because you don’t think it will work, but you don’t know it won’t work and yet you still reject the idea. This shows that you, and the people like you = no imagination, dullards, inferior thinking, and inside-the-box thinking. You assume something won’t work so you don’t bother trying. You aren’t even smart enough to figure out that since you are not 100% sure it won’t work that means it might work. That is the problem. You aren’t smart enough to realize that if something isn’t 100% certain of failure that means there is a chance that it might work.
As a matter of fact, it may have already worked because they may have released it early. Some posters are saying that a doctor Akia in Japan was selling HSC and at first I snickered at that possibility until i did some digging and now i believe that they may be right. And if Histogen did release it early they may have done so because of people like me calling them and emailing them asking them to release it early.
And if they did try to release it early then for some reason the HSC didn’t grow hair so now they will be even more resistant to the idea of releasing it early again so now more than ever it will take more of us complaining to get them to do so again.
Obviously if they did release it and it didn’t work that means that something went wrong with how Dr. Akia administered or stored it but Histogen will be gun shy to release it early again.
» » Mr. Z/Hairman posts = drones, straight-ahead plodders, no imagination,
» » inside-the-box thinking, dullards.
»
» i hate to break it to you jarjarbinx… but your idea really isn’t so
» amazing that it requires a great thinker like yourself - let alone any form
» of thinking outside-of-the-box. In fact it is a first thought that occurs
» to anyone of average intelligence… I don’t think that it is an option that
» Histogen has failed to evaluate due to their drone-sheepishness, as you
» have so eloquently formulated.
more drone thinking on your part. You have concluded that drone-sheepish thinking is not why Histogen doesn’t release HSC early, and that conclusion by you is part and parcel of your drone thinking. You assume my reasoning for why Histogen won’t release early is wrong but you really don’t know for sure. You yourself say “I don’t think…” and that means that you are not 100% sure. But you act in accordance with what you “think” even though you yourself know you might be wrong.
Why don’t you come down from the tree and listen to me? I will say it again. I used to talk to Histogen about this issue and they used to tell me “FDA FDA FDA.” That tells you that they were too dronish to think outside the box because of course they could release it outside the US where the FDA has no jurisdiction and yet they kept saying they couldn’t release early because of “FDA FDA FDA.”
jarjarbinx, dont take his the wrong way but histogen really cldn’t give a sh*t abt your phonecalls… I’m certain you haven’t spoken to any upper-ranking officials… all that you have achieved is to annoy the receptionist.
Even if you did speak to someone in charge at histogen, then i’m sure they would have dismissed you as a crazy person if your verbal argumentation is even half as ludicrous as your posts here. You are a nutcase… get yourself checked.
» more drone thinking on your part. You have concluded that drone-sheepish
» thinking is not why Histogen doesn’t release HSC early, and that conclusion
» by you is part and parcel of your drone thinking. You assume my reasoning
» for why Histogen won’t release early is wrong but you really don’t know for
» sure. You yourself say “I don’t think…” and that means that you are not
» 100% sure. But you act in accordance with what you “think” even though you
» yourself know you might be wrong.
»
» Why don’t you come down from the tree and listen to me? I will say it
» again. I used to talk to Histogen about this issue and they used to tell
» me “FDA FDA FDA.” That tells you that they were too dronish to think
» outside the box because of course they could release it outside the US
» where the FDA has no jurisdiction and yet they kept saying they couldn’t
» release early because of “FDA FDA FDA.”
Hairman don’t take this wrong but you belong in a tree eating bananas. You have no idea if Histogen cared about my phone calls and emails. You are talking out your arse as always. I spoke to the daughter of the company owner in phone calls and emails. It is looking more and more like they released HSC early - probably in part because of people like me asking them to. You did not aid in that effort because you are not smart enough to realize that it might work even though you freely admit that you are not 100% sure that it won’t work. This means that you are too dumb to realize that even you yourself knows that there is a chance that it might work. You belong in a tree for sure.
» jarjarbinx, dont take his the wrong way but histogen really cldn’t give a
» sh*t abt your phonecalls… I’m certain you haven’t spoken to any
» upper-ranking officials… all that you have achieved is to annoy the
» receptionist.
»
» Even if you did speak to someone in charge at histogen, then i’m sure they
» would have dismissed you as a crazy person if your verbal argumentation is
» even half as ludicrous as your posts here. You are a nutcase… get yourself
» checked.
»
»
»
» » more drone thinking on your part. You have concluded that
» drone-sheepish
» » thinking is not why Histogen doesn’t release HSC early, and that
» conclusion
» » by you is part and parcel of your drone thinking. You assume my
» reasoning
» » for why Histogen won’t release early is wrong but you really don’t know
» for
» » sure. You yourself say “I don’t think…” and that means that you are
» not
» » 100% sure. But you act in accordance with what you “think” even though
» you
» » yourself know you might be wrong.
» »
» » Why don’t you come down from the tree and listen to me? I will say it
» » again. I used to talk to Histogen about this issue and they used to
» tell
» » me “FDA FDA FDA.” That tells you that they were too dronish to think
» » outside the box because of course they could release it outside the US
» » where the FDA has no jurisdiction and yet they kept saying they couldn’t
» » release early because of “FDA FDA FDA.”
» I spoke to the daughter of the company
» owner in phone calls and emails. It is looking more and more like they
» released HSC early - probably in part because of people like me asking them
» to.
» » I spoke to the daughter of the company
» » owner in phone calls and emails. It is looking more and more like they
» » released HSC early - probably in part because of people like me asking
» them
» » to.
»
» What did she say?
This really sounds like a legit operation to you? Releasing it early? A real biotech firm would never disclose anything about their treatment.
Too many red flags, plus none of these Histogen people have a background in HF biology from anything I can see. Who are the principal scientists in the company? Naughton was the dean of a b-school before, so it’s not her.
» » I spoke to the daughter of the company
» » owner in phone calls and emails. It is looking more and more like they
» » released HSC early - probably in part because of people like me asking
» them
» » to.
»
» What did she say?
She said that they asked Dr. Akia to take it down from his website that he has HSC and he took it down. I asked her if they ever gave him HSC and she did not specifically categorically say yes or no even though I asked her this more than once.
I think this is a good sign. I think this is a sign that there’s a chance that they might be willing to help us sooner rather than waiting us wait years. Of course since it did not work and Histogen took some flak about it not working they will be a little gun shy about releasing it early again, but if we can bring them around to the logical conclusion that the problem is not with the medicine itself but rather there was somethinng about how Dr. Akia transported it, stored it, or injected it, is what caused the problem of it not working.
If they really did release early then that means they do care about our interests and they understand that they chose to serve the bald community and they are trying to help us while they also help themselves. They just need to figure out what went wrong with the Dr. Akia attempt to release HSC early and then correct that and release it early again after phase 2 is completed. It’s no big deal. it’s just a simple matter of figuring out what went wrong and correcting the problem. I just hope we can make them understand that it’s no big deal and get them to try it again after they sort out what went wrong and then release it early without the error, whatever the error was.
» » » I spoke to the daughter of the company
» » » owner in phone calls and emails. It is looking more and more like
» they
» » » released HSC early - probably in part because of people like me asking
» » them
» » » to.
» »
» » What did she say?
»
» This really sounds like a legit operation to you? Releasing it early? A
» real biotech firm would never disclose anything about their treatment.
»
» Too many red flags, plus none of these Histogen people have a background in
» HF biology from anything I can see. Who are the principal scientists in the
» company? Naughton was the dean of a b-school before, so it’s not her.
» » » I spoke to the daughter of the company
» » » owner in phone calls and emails. It is looking more and more like
» they
» » » released HSC early - probably in part because of people like me asking
» » them
» » » to.
» »
» » What did she say?
»
» This really sounds like a legit operation to you? Releasing it early? A
» real biotech firm would never disclose anything about their treatment.
»
» Too many red flags, plus none of these Histogen people have a background in
» HF biology from anything I can see. Who are the principal scientists in the
» company? Naughton was the dean of a b-school before, so it’s not her.
OK KO firstly, you yourself have already stated numerous times that you think Histogen probably did release HSC early already.
Do you really think I’m the only person who has contacted Hisogen complaining about hair loss and asking for relief?
When RU58841 was in development I was communicating with one of the VPs of Rousel Uclaf. She told me they were getting mail bags full of letters from bald people all over the world.
Look, the point is that we have to try to reach Histogen mgmnt/ownership on a human level. Look, their interests do not really differ from ours. They want to sell us an effective hair loss treatment and we want to buy one. There is an obstacle: The FDA. So we just have to impress upon Histogen that there is a way around the FDA’s rules that is legal and won’t hurt Histogen, and we have to ask them to do it. The more of us that ask the better.
We have to present a sound position. I would imagine that most of the letters they get from people about HSC are from people who are expressing deep sadness about the loss of their hair and they are asking for help. It’s very sad of course but i think that Histogen also needs a sound reason to release it early, especially now that their first attempt to do so resulted in the HSC not working, they probably got a lot of flack about that, and they’re probably gun-shy about the idea of doing it again. I can imagine the despair in the letters that Histogen is receiving from bald people asking for help, but if they really did make an attempt at releasing it and that attempt resulted in failure they are now going to need good logical reasons to try it again around the end of the years when they have their phase 2 results and they have figured out why the Akia release went to poorly.
Of course HSC works. The studies prove that. Obviously something went wrong when they released the HSC early through Akia, if they did indeed release it early. Akia probably transported it wrong, or stored it wrong, or let it sit out too long, or he injected at the wrong depth or whatever. These types of medicines have to be transported, stored, handled, and injected just right or else you get failure. My attitude is that Histogen should wait till completion of phase 2 so they have collected more raw data. Plus they need to try to figure out what went wrong with the Akia early release. What was the mistake(s) that caused it not to work on the patients that got it. Then they need to correct those mistakes and release it again after phase 2 study is complete and they have more information.
From jj’s testimony, it sounds like Histogen did indeed ship HSC to Akai and it did not quite work as expected. If that’s true, its rather disappointing outcome.
Are the regulations for injecting stuff into people’s scalp more lax in Japan? If not, how did Akai manage to legally do this without getting arrested.
I’m wondering if he ordered vials of Regenica (for skin) off Histogen’s website and injected that mistakenly thinking it was HSC.
This Akai episode has left me feeling less than optimistic about HSC I must confess.
» All right man. Have you tried contacting the Akai Clinic?
No.
Have you?
I have contacted Histogen. I will ocntact Histogen again next week.
Perhaps you could contact Akia.
It is a good idea to contact Akia. I hadn’t thought of it because I assumed that he would say it was real HSC whether it is or not. But it might be a good idea to talk to him about why it didn’t grow hair, what he thinks is the reason behind the HSC not working, what could be done to correct the problem, and how we can get it released early again after correcting the problem.
If Histogen really did release it early then that means that Histogen is a company that is willing to consider the interests of their customers. A company that hears us and will consider not only what is best for themselves but also what is best for us. It presents an opening for us to walk through and pursue. If they really did try to release it early to Akia that means they’re willing to work with the idea of early release somewhere in the world and we’d be fools not to try to persuade them to do so.
Akia and Histogen need to find out what went wrong - why the HSC didn’t work to grow hair. We need to get them to correct the problem and release it early again.
» From jj’s testimony, it sounds like Histogen did indeed ship HSC to Akai
» and it did not quite work as expected. If that’s true, its rather
» disappointing outcome.
»
» Are the regulations for injecting stuff into people’s scalp more lax in
» Japan? If not, how did Akai manage to legally do this without getting
» arrested.
»
» I’m wondering if he ordered vials of Regenica (for skin) off Histogen’s
» website and injected that mistakenly thinking it was HSC.
»
» This Akai episode has left me feeling less than optimistic about HSC I must
» confess.
IMO
I’m very confident with HSC. The scientific evidence is powerful. Someone needs to talk with Akia to try to get the facts, although he might not be very forthright if he didn’t really have HSC. If he did have it then that means something went wrong with the transporting, storage, handling, or injection of the HSC. Or else perhaps it was a bad batch. I don’t know. I do know that if Akia had real HSC then someone nees to figure out what went wrong - why it didn’t work - correct the problem, and then release it early again after phase 2 is completed.
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