read page 18 of this file
it says intercytex will sell TRC within 6 months of phase 2 being complete and bosley must be the seller
http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors/rep/otherdocs/2006-08-03/at_aim.pdf
» read page 18 of this file
»
» it says intercytex will sell TRC within 6 months of phase 2 being complete
» and bosley must be the seller
»
» http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors/rep/otherdocs/2006-08-03/at_aim.pdf
It does not say that at all. It says that Bosley has 6 months to make up their mind if they want to be distributor of icx-trc after phase 2 is finished. After 6 months Icx can look elsewhere for partners. It has nothing to do with the launch of icx-trc I´m afraid.
» read page 18 of this file
»
» it says intercytex will sell TRC within 6 months of phase 2 being complete
» and bosley must be the seller
»
» http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors/rep/otherdocs/2006-08-03/at_aim.pdf
Still a very good find. People wont like this part though:
“ICX-TRC is expected to be used earlier during the hairloss process,and should therefore
be of interest to younger men in earlier stages of hairloss.”
Edit:
They are constantly refering icx-trc as a filler for hair transplant patients and they also mention a price :
“Pricing will be a critical issue if Intercytex is to achieve its commercial goals.The
proposed price of $1,000-$2,000 per adjunct procedure represents a signi?cant additional cost to that of hair transplantation.”
read all of it, it says they are looking at europe to launch it and amount of hair is unlimited
» read all of it, it says they are looking at europe to launch it and amount
» of hair is unlimited
im not trying to be a pessimist, Im just copying what the document is saying.
“This product is at an early stage of development and there are no data at present to indicate that cosmetically acceptable hair growth can be achieved in patients with male pattern baldness. Also consistent with the early stage of development,
there are no data on the durability of new hairgrowth.”
that statement was made by an external company in jan 2006
we have seen photos and the new hair looks normal
Nice find!
I like the sound of this: “…the expansion of DP cells used in ICX-TRC is
expected to be sufficient to repopulate the entire head with new hair.”
» Still a very good find. People wont like this part though:
»
» “ICX-TRC is expected to be used earlier during the hairloss process,and
» should therefore
» be of interest to younger men in earlier stages of hairloss.”
»
»
» Edit:
» They are constantly refering icx-trc as a filler for hair transplant
» patients and they also mention a price :
»
» “Pricing will be a critical issue if Intercytex is to achieve its
» commercial goals.The
» proposed price of $1,000-$2,000 per adjunct procedure represents a
» signi?cant additional cost to that of hair transplantation.”
so what is $1k to $2k “per adjunct procedure” mean? $1k-$2k every time you need to get injections??
so now this is just for younger men that are in earlier stages of hairloss like a NW1 or NW2? that would mean it doesnt work good if thats the case. that also contridicts what BostonBaldy copy and pasted:
“…the expansion of DP cells used in ICX-TRC is
expected to be sufficient to repopulate the entire head with new hair.”
Since we’re all taking snippets from the document it does seem contradictory, but this is what I think Intercytex is saying:
-
ICX-TRC is expected to both thicken existing hairs and create new hairs. Accordingly, a full head of hair could be achieved with ICX-TRC.
-
However, it appears that ICX-TRC will be best used for filler hair, so if you are completely bald you would want a HT for the front hairline and ICX-TRC for filler in the vertex and crown. BUT – if you’re in the earlier stages of hair loss then a HT won’t be needed, just use ICX-TRC and your hairline will be thickened/preserved. (Why would a young person go for a HT when you have a minimally inasive cellular therapy available?)
-
It will cost 1-2 dollars for each injection. So for a full head of hair it will cost tens of thousands of dollars.
» » “ICX-TRC is expected to be used earlier during the hairloss process,and
» » should therefore
» » be of interest to younger men in earlier stages of hairloss.”
» »
» »
» » They are constantly refering icx-trc as a filler for hair transplant
» » patients and they also mention a price :
»
» “…the expansion of DP cells used in ICX-TRC is
» expected to be sufficient to repopulate the entire head with new
» hair.”
How did you find this info.I couldn’t find link on their website.
NICE FIND
A bit out of date and a bit contradictory in places,as above.
This could explain the bit on patient information sheet - Why have I been chosen - BECAUSE THE TRIALIST HAD HAIR TRANSPLANTS - See below
Intercytex’s objective is to develop a system for autologous hair replacement, initially for
treatment of male pattern baldness and then for female diffuse alopecia. At launch the
product will be positioned as a ‘filler’ in the early stages of hair loss, or for use in
combination with follicular transplantation in males, to provide a hair thickening effect.Longer term plans include use as a stand alone treatment in younger males and females.
Is this what we’ve been waiting for - a bloody filler with HT - I HOPE NOT
Hey Baldie42,
This could also be smart marketing positioning by Intercytex – why alienate Bosley not to mention the hundreds of HT docs around the world? If anything they’ll be helping distribute ICX-TRC.
For example, check out this quote on pg 42, which sounds a lot like they’re just trying to figure out the best way to market their product:
“In the longer term Intercytex is evaluating whether the optimal setting for a pivotal clinical study, and hence first marketing approval, is as a ‘filler’ in the early stages of hair loss or as as an adjunct to transplantation. This seems reasonable given the absence of information on the cosmetic acceptability of the hair produced.”
And here’s another quote on pg. 45 on marketing:
“Intercytex plans to launch the product initially for use in combination with follicular transplantation in males, to provide a thickening effect. This will fit with its commercial strategy of partnering with a company already active in the follicular transplantation business e.g. Bosley Medical. The ‘hair thickening’ usage of ICX-TRC will be expanded as a stand alone treatment for younger males with early male pattern baldness for whom follicular transplantation would not be recommended. In this sector, additional revenues could be derived from storage of cultures for future implantation. The ‘‘hair thickening’’ concept should also play well in the female market where all-over hair thinning is the issue of concern.”
Now having said this, the phrae “hair thickening effect” in the quote you provided is ugly, ugly, ugly. Makes me think of rogaine, spray paint hair, and hocus pocus potions/pills. God I hope we get actual hairs, not a “hair thickening effect”, lol.
» Intercytex’s objective is to develop a system for autologous hair
» replacement, initially for
» treatment of male pattern baldness and then for female diffuse alopecia.
» At launch the
» product will be positioned as a ‘filler’ in the early stages of hair
» loss, or for use in
» combination with follicular transplantation in males, to provide a hair
» thickening effect.Longer term plans include use as a stand alone
» treatment in younger males and females.
»
» Is this what we’ve been waiting for - a bloody filler with HT
» - I HOPE NOT
BostonBaldy
The points you make could be correct.
No I would not like to have strip done either.The Farjo Clinic who are doing trials only do strip.A small strip for ICX-TRC would be okay,but anything else is a big no,no.
If Bosleys do it.They only do strip,don’t they?
Good job I’m getting used to shaving my head.I did get called baldie this week,playfully.I’ve thinning hair on top,so at moment it does not look to bad shaven.I just look like some hard bastard,not the look I really want!
» Hey Baldie42,
»
» 2 points…
»
» 1. It seems to me that this has been talked about for a while – that the
» 1st generation HM would be used to fill up the area behind a frontal
» hairline transplant. But I HOPE this would mean NO strip surgery – this
» is barbaric imho.
»
» 2. This could also be smart marketing positioning by Intercytex – why
» alienate Bosley not to mention the hundreds of HT docs around the world?
» If anything they’ll be helping distribute ICX-TRC.
»
» For example, check out this quote on pg 42, which sounds a lot like
» they’re just trying to figure out the best way to market their product:
» “In the longer term Intercytex is evaluating whether the optimal setting
» for a pivotal clinical study, and hence first marketing approval, is as a
» ‘filler’ in the early stages of hair loss or as as an adjunct to
» transplantation. This seems reasonable given the absence of information on
» the cosmetic acceptability of the hair produced.”
»
» Now having said this, the phrae “hair thickening effect” in the quote you
» provided is ugly, ugly, ugly. Makes me think of rogaine, spray paint hair,
» and hocus pocus potions/pills. God I hope we get actual hairs, not a “hair
» thickening effect”, lol.
»
»
» » Intercytex’s objective is to develop a system for autologous hair
» » replacement, initially for
» » treatment of male pattern baldness and then for female diffuse
» alopecia.
» » At launch the
» » product will be positioned as a ‘filler’ in the early stages of hair
» » loss, or for use in
» » combination with follicular transplantation in males, to provide a hair
» » thickening effect.Longer term plans include use as a stand alone
» » treatment in younger males and females.
» »
» » Is this what we’ve been waiting for - a bloody filler with
» HT
» » - I HOPE NOT
Yeah, I know I tried the shaved look, hate it. And now I’m trying the “hey i’m not balding i just have a really large forehead with some weird chemicals and concealers in my hair” look, and hate that. So I’m going to try a wig for a month or so and see if I can deal with it – I’m in a fortunate position where I can just hide out for a couple of weeks and nobody will bother me.
As far as Intercytex – I really do think it’s about marketing. They also know that desirable densities may not be perfected at launch, so you might have to go back a couple times to increase the density of a particular area. But I still think the marketing strategy sucks – rogaine “thickens”, so does hair gel for christ’s sake.
» BostonBaldy
» The points you make could be correct.
»
» No I would not like to have strip done either.The Farjo Clinic who are
» doing trials only do strip.A small strip for ICX-TRC would be okay,but
» anything else is a big no,no.
»
» If Bosleys do it.They only do strip,don’t they?
»
» Good job I’m getting used to shaving my head.I did get called baldie this
» week,playfully.I’ve thinning hair on top,so at moment it does not look to
» bad shaven.I just look like some hard bastard,not the look I really want!
]
The PROVEN 66 hairs/cm2 is more then enough to cover my scar,hairline & crown.As far as I am concerned,this current & proven growth is still a better & safer alternative to surgery Also,you wont have all the b.s excuses/factors that prevents hairs from growing as you do with surgery.
We already know this technique works.If they were able to grow 66 hairs without even trying,using a incorrect syringe that was delivering the cells to deep,then what will happen when they try to grow more hairs with the correct syringe? Density baby !
I have no doubt that they will be able to regrow a full head of hair,the question is when will it be released.
Gestapo hairsite, you can delete this post too,I made a negative comment about surgery.
Hey damon – do you know if Intercytex is actually using the new modified syringe now? I vaguely recall a patent somewhere or Jerry Cooley mentioning it.
And yeah, if the product does what Intercytex is expecting it to do, then however they market doesn’t matter a whit to me. I’ll use it all over my head, with maybe FUE for the hairline, but mostly just ICX-TRC!!
» The PROVEN 66 hairs/cm2 is more then enough to cover my scar,hairline &
» crown.As far as I am concerned,this current & proven growth is still a
» better & safer alternative to surgery Also,you wont have all the b.s
» excuses/factors that prevents hairs from growing as you do with surgery.
» We already know this technique works.If they were able to grow 66 hairs
» without even trying,using a incorrect syringe that was delivering the
» cells to deep,then what will happen when they try to grow more hairs with
» the correct syringe? Density baby !
» I have no doubt that they will be able to regrow a full head of hair,the
» question is when will it be released.
» Gestapo hairsite, you can delete this post too,I made a negative comment
» about surgery.
» Hey damon – do you know if Intercytex is actually using the new modified
» syringe now? I vaguely recall a patent somewhere or Jerry Cooley
» mentioning it.
» And yeah, if the product does what Intercytex is expecting it to do, then
» however they market doesn’t matter a whit to me. I’ll use it all over my
» head, with maybe FUE for the hairline, but mostly just ICX-TRC!!
»
Hello BB
All I vaguely remember is that they realised that certain syringes used to inject the cells into the scalp were delivering the cells to deep & that prevented hairs from growing.It’s the same as TP grafts,the graft has to be inserted to a specific depth otherwise it wont grow.They mentioned that they SOLVED this problem by discovering another syringe that would prevent the cell from being delivered to deep.They did mention the name of the syringe that could deliver the cells to the appropriate depth but I can’t remember what it was called.
I can’t remember when this info was released.Remember,some of the trialists in the Phase 1 (safety trials) didn’t grow hair.Maybe those patients had their cells injected with the “incorrect” syringes & the others used the correct 1? Maybe they discovered this by luck during the safety trials? If this were the case,then it would be extremely advantageous to the phase 2 (delivery & efficiency trials) because they wont be wasting time using an incorrect deliver tool.
If this info was discovered during the phase 2 trials then they would have wasted a little time by using the incorrect syringe. Again, I only have a vague recollection of this issue.Hopefully Benji,JB or Baldie42 will come along soon & shed more light on it.
Whether they made this discovery in Phase 1 or 2 doesn’t mean sh*t.All that’s important is that they are capable of rectifying their mistakes & are moving forward to their end goal of giving Damon his life back.
As for using FUE on your hairline,not gonna happen.Most surgeons cannot guarantee more then 66 hairs/cm2 nor can they guarantee the direction of hair growth.HM was able to do both these things in it’s safety trials.66 hairs/cm2 is enough for your hairline.
Also,I was under the impression that the injected cells will rejuvenate pre existing cells so you will have your original hairline back,right? You wont need surgery on your hairline,in theory; hm will cover your head from hairline to crown.
Hey Damon/James Bond,
So if you look on the following link JB and a few others mention that Intercytex is using a “modified Hamilton syringe” to get the right injection depth. Here’s the link: http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry.php?id=2791&da=DESC&page=0&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC&category=all
But I was intrigued by JB’s comments on Intercytex’s syringe. So James Bond have you followed up on your syringe idea??
Here’s JB’s take:
"My [i.e., James Bond’s] automated HM syringe based on the idea of a tatto gun would completely solve this problem. It would not only deliver the cells to an exacting depth in the skin, it would deliver them at a precise rate inside the skin. End of problem. I have actually drawn up the plans for one that will work (very different from a tatto gun in actuality). A potential addition is to alter the timings in the skin to hold slightly longer at certain crucial depths than others. Thus the injection timing would follow a precisely adjustable mathematical curve. Not only is my gun way more accurate than ICX’ methodology, it has way less cell wastage, and delivers way more injections per injection period. Thus it literally pays for itself after the first few applications (and results in way more hair per cm^2 thus delivering much higher patient satisfaction). It also somewhat addresses the dreaded Dr. Gho consistency problem.
I find it almost impossible to believe that ICX has not came to similar conclusions, and they are still experimenting around with inadequate systems that are subject to human inconsistencies and require the need of special training and talent on the part of those who administer the cells.
And how do they plan to perform a proper statisical analysis of their studies when they cannot write down precise depth and timing figures? If they want to market this as a cure anytime soon, they are going to have to start thinking outside the box a little more frequently."
» Hey Damon/James Bond,
»
» So if you look on the following link JB and a few others mention that
» Intercytex is using a “modified Hamilton syringe” to get the right
» injection depth. Here’s the link:
» http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry.php?id=2791&da=DESC&page=0&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC&category=all
»
» But I was intrigued by JB’s comments on Intercytex’s syringe. So James
» Bond have you followed up on your syringe idea??
»
» Here’s JB’s take:
» “My [i.e., James Bond’s] automated HM syringe based on the idea of a tatto
» gun would completely solve this problem. It would not only deliver the
» cells to an exacting depth in the skin, it would deliver them at a precise
» rate inside the skin. End of problem. I have actually drawn up the plans
» for one that will work (very different from a tatto gun in actuality). A
» potential addition is to alter the timings in the skin to hold slightly
» longer at certain crucial depths than others. Thus the injection timing
» would follow a precisely adjustable mathematical curve. Not only is my gun
» way more accurate than ICX’ methodology, it has way less cell wastage, and
» delivers way more injections per injection period. Thus it literally pays
» for itself after the first few applications (and results in way more hair
» per cm^2 thus delivering much higher patient satisfaction). It also
» somewhat addresses the dreaded Dr. Gho consistency problem.
»
» I find it almost impossible to believe that ICX has not came to similar
» conclusions, and they are still experimenting around with inadequate
» systems that are subject to human inconsistencies and require the need of
» special training and talent on the part of those who administer the
» cells.
»
» And how do they plan to perform a proper statisical analysis of their
» studies when they cannot write down precise depth and timing figures? If
» they want to market this as a cure anytime soon, they are going to have to
» start thinking outside the box a little more frequently.”
BB,
It would be very arrogant & foolish of us to think that we have the answers to solve ICX’s problems.All we are doing is speculating & interpreting vague info.
Dr Kemp & his team are not idiots,everything they do has it’s purpose.
For all we know they may have already cracked the problem & are growing full heads of hair.Nobody knows.You will drive yourself nuts if you over analyse every piece of info that surfaces.
The bottom line is that the HM industry needs to tighten up its process methodologies. Sophisticated data modeling should be the heart and soul of this approach.