Sounds like at least 2 to 3 to 10 years away…
There is one pdf and one powerpoint.
The following can be downloaded from the following address.
http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/releases/2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
and
http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors/rep/rep2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
This is the key point mentioned about ICX-TRC.
“Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group 2 patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%) at 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more recently,
all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6 and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will be treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This detailed analysis will form the
basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2 patients have been lost to follow up.”
» Sounds like at least 2 to 3 to 10 years away…
Yep, and now we await the positive spins.
Pretty much what I was expecting, ie some promising data but not the panacea that some people long for.
A few interesting tidbits:
“Stimulation of epidermis prior to injection appears to improve results”
“New IP being generated” ???(WTF does this mean?)
On the plus side all second group Phase 2 patients are showing increased hair counts. (and this is only from the 6 and 12 week data) including one dude at 105%!
Anyway, interesting results but not earth shattering. By far the most promising development is stimulation of the epidermis and the increased hair count that result from this.
are you still sure that ICX-TRC is on time?
in the interim report there are the reasons because the delay and the second trial of phase II!
do you agree?
» Pretty much what I was expecting, ie some promising data but not the
» panacea that some people long for.
»
» A few interesting tidbits:
»
» “Stimulation of epidermis prior to injection appears to improve results”
»
» “New IP being generated” ???(WTF does this mean?)
»
» On the plud side all Phase 2 patients thus far showing increased hair
» counts. (and this is only from the 6 and 12 week data) including one dude
» at 105%.
»
» Anyway, interesting results but not earth shattering.
Analyst meeting at 11am today. You can listen in on 02078061966.
are you still sure that ICX-TRC is on time?
in the interim report there are the reasons because the delay and the second trial of phase II!
do you agree?
Where does it say that exactly? Source please…
posted by pat
»» are you still sure that ICX-TRC is on time?
»»
»»
»» in the interim report there are the reasons because the delay and the
»» second trial of phase II!
»»
»» do you agree?
posted by cockneyninja
» Where does it say that exactly? Source please…
It says exactly what you said “Anyway, interesting results but not earth shattering”
The procedure’s efficacy is still not good! For this reason the delay (in the first version on ICX web site definitive results were expected in the FIRST half 2007) and the second trial of fase II.
It seems that in some cases the cells are not enough powerful to obtain the hair growth. In fact only in case of already existing hairs -for which is possible to induce stimulation- the results are encouraging.
Is it rigth my interpretation?
» »» are you still sure that ICX-TRC is on time?
» »»
» »»
» »» in the interim report there are the reasons because the delay and the
» »» second trial of phase II!
» »»
» »» do you agree?
»
»
» » Where does it say that exactly? Source please…
»
» It says exactly what you said “Anyway, interesting results but not earth
» shattering”
»
» The procedure’s efficacy is still not good! For this reason the delay (in
» the first version on ICX web site definitive results was expected in the
» FIRST half 2007) and the second trial of fase II.
»
» It seems that in some cases the cells are not enough powerful to obtain
» the hair growth. In fact only in case of already existing hairs the
» results are encouraging.
Can you provide a link to the report that backs this up please? I’m still reading the whole thing…
» » »» are you still sure that ICX-TRC is on time?
» » »»
» » »»
» » »» in the interim report there are the reasons because the delay and
» the
» » »» second trial of phase II!
» » »»
» » »» do you agree?
» »
» »
» » » Where does it say that exactly? Source please…
» »
» » It says exactly what you said “Anyway, interesting results but not
» earth
» » shattering”
» »
» » The procedure’s efficacy is still not good! For this reason the delay
» (in
» » the first version on ICX web site definitive results was expected in
» the
» » FIRST half 2007) and the second trial of fase II.
» »
» » It seems that in some cases the cells are not enough powerful to obtain
» » the hair growth. In fact only in case of already existing hairs the
» » results are encouraging.
»
» Can you provide a link to the report that backs this up please? I’m still
» reading the whole thing…
http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/releases/2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
I extracted the ICX-TRC section.
Hair regeneration - ICX-TRC
ICX-TRC consists of a suspension of autologous dermal papilla (DP) cells. These cells are able to
stimulate the generation of new hairs when injected into the scalp in close proximity to the epithelial
cells which generate the hair. The purpose of the ongoing Phase II study being conducted by Dr
Bessam Farjo in Manchester is to optimise the delivery of the DP cells.
In this study, hair counts are obtained by shaving and photographing a small section of scalp,
injecting it and then applying a specialised image analysis system to provide a total hair count. Two
sub-groups were each injected with autologous DP cells using different delivery techniques. The
first group focussed on delivery of the hair inductive DP cells, and in the second group resident hair
producing (epithelial) cells were also stimulated at the time of delivery.
Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the sub-groups, the preliminary
data are encouraging. In the first sub-group 2 patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair
count (21 & 55%) at 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more recently,
all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6 and/or 12 weeks (13-105%).
We believe this increased hair production is attributable to the interaction between the injected DP
cells and the stimulated resident hair producing cells.
A further 8 subjects will be treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all
subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This detailed analysis will form the
basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much larger area of treated scalp
on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2 patients have been lost to follow up.
» Sounds like at least 2 to 3 to 10 years away…
we realists tell you guys on the HM board that HM is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY far in the future IF ITS EVEN VIABLE AT ALL WHICH IS QUESTIONABLE
but you dont want to hear that you want to say oh just wait, ICX will have it within 2 yrs and then we will all grow our hair back
this reminds me of the grunge guys at getitback worshipping their leader lawrence cutslinger, waiting for his regrowth pics that never showed up
you guys need to get real , and realize that HM is just a pipe dream at this time
» you guys need to get real , and realize that HM is just a pipe dream at
» this time
NO. It is working right now.
» » you guys need to get real , and realize that HM is just a pipe dream at
» » this time
»
» NO. It is working right now.
yes and little green men landed behind my house last night
its working, where? can you access it? nope, its in some lab somewhere with a bunch of guys running around trying to figure out what to say, to make people think its " jusr around the corner" and to just be patient
this , another few years always turns out to be more than they predict
so if they say 2 or 3 yrs count on 10 yrs
if they say 10 yrs it means they have no idea what they are doing and the technology has not yet been invented
HanginInThere check this out:
A further 8 subjects will be treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This detailed analysis will form the basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
Taken in account what they have mentioned above (what i bolded) and logically thinking, there is a 50% posibility they skip phase III. That means no more than 2 years max until ICX-TRC launch.
13% regrowth, nice ! -_-
“Currently 2 patients have been lost to follow up.”
Where did they lose them?
» There is one pdf and one powerpoint.
» The following can be downloaded from the following address.
»
» http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/releases/2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
» and
» http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors/rep/rep2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
»
» This is the key point mentioned about ICX-TRC.
»
» “Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the
» sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group 2
» patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%) at
» 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more
» recently,» all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6
» and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is
» attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the
» stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will be
» treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all
» subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This
» detailed analysis will form the
» basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
» At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much
» larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2
» patients have been lost to follow up.”
in the second group they injected more recently. and in this group all patients regrow hair up to 105 %.
remind, phase II is to find the right dosage.
and the hair is attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the stimulated resident hair producing cells. so that means if i understand it right, if you still have hair cells on your head, it should work better.
» “Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the
» sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group 2
» patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%) at
» 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more
» recently,
» all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6
» and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is
» attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the
» stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will be
» treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all
» subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This
» detailed analysis will form the
» basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
» At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much
» larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2
» patients have been lost to follow up.”
wow … this is what i call wow-so-so results, and remember those restults are compiled from 10 patients only! Afterall, it sounds exactly like what i expected (but not what i expect) : an isolagen-like procedure whose results are not consistent. Let’s face it guys, the reason some people disagree on this board regarding HM is just a matter of viewing the problem from two different angles :
-
if you look at HM from the innovative way, you’ll go like “wow, it’s a VERY encouraging technology!!”. Results are still experimental but trials are here and the technology is slowly gaining some accuracy and it shall converge to something efficient in the long run. Science rock, true that, true that.
-
if you look at HM from the commercial way, it’s not coming to your house anytime soon. The Nathan-like, TheGame & other insiders-messiah posters may give you hope with zero backed-up stuff, but here is some concrete stuff : one firm, 10 patients, so-so results. Look at the figures if you’re not convinced. The procedure needs some more testing, some more consistancy, some more accuracy, some more reliability, some more just about everything.
Here’s another concrete element : unmet delays. Because the world doesn’t work like a ticking watch, especially when implementing a research-based product.
One last last food for thought : even if HM thing reaches the market, in several years that is, you may easily add for yourself another couple of years before you eventually take the decision to do it for you. Why ? Because the HM -house won’t be located near you, or because you’ll need much money to get something noticeable, but most of all because you will want to see many WOW! results before you ever go for it, because you are already warned that HT sucks and HM need not fool you at anytime, anywhere. It takes time for a product who is using a cutting edge technology not widely available to spread onto celebrity and fame. If you have the slightest doubt about the procedure, which the normal reaction any human being should have right now, i think you understand what i’am saying.
Speaking for myself, I had many many hopes on HM and still have, but not anymore in my near future (in a 5 years time). Now i see the reality like it is : a new technology is always promising, but is never operationnal on the first time. Remember what Washenik said a loooong time ago : “the hm technology will be an iterative process, it’s not like it’s here and it’s done”. And the man who is telling you this is the man who’s supposed to sell you the product. See what i mean ?
Anyway, i’m now ready to get flamed up or not…I know i’m somehow right so i don’t need to elaborate really. I just care about my baldness who will suck for some more time, eh. But life isn’t perfect i guess.
cheers
» “Currently 2 patients have been lost to follow up.”
»
» Where did they lose them?
They got hair back so now are partying with beautiful girls instead go to the monthly Kemp revisions.
What’s JTR and J Bond sayin
» » “Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the
» » sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group
» 2
» » patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%)
» at
» » 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more
» » recently,
» » all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6
» » and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is
» » attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the
» » stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will be
» » treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all
» » subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This
» » detailed analysis will form the
» » basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
» » At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much
» » larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2
» » patients have been lost to follow up.”
»
» wow … this is what i call wow-so-so results, and remember those restults
» are compiled from 10 patients only! Afterall, it sounds exactly like what i
» expected (but not what i expect) : an isolagen-like procedure whose results
» are not consistent. Let’s face it guys, the reason some people disagree on
» this board regarding HM is just a matter of viewing the problem from two
» different angles :
»
» - if you look at HM from the innovative way, you’ll go like “wow, it’s a
» VERY encouraging technology!!”. Results are still experimental but trials
» are here and the technology is slowly gaining some accuracy and it shall
» converge to something efficient in the long run. Science rock, true that,
» true that.
»
» - if you look at HM from the commercial way, it’s not coming to your house
» anytime soon. The Nathan-like, TheGame & other insiders-messiah posters may
» give you hope with zero backed-up stuff, but here is some concrete stuff :
» one firm, 10 patients, so-so results. Look at the figures if you’re not
» convinced. The procedure needs some more testing, some more consistancy,
» some more accuracy, some more reliability, some more just about anything.
»
» Here’s another concrete element : unmet delays. Because the world doesn’t
» work like a ticking watch, especially when implementing a research-based
» product.
» One last last food for thought : even if HM thing reaches the market, in
» several years that is, you may easily add for yourself another couple of
» years before you eventually take the decision to do it for you. Why ?
» Because the HM -house won’t be located near you, or because you’ll need
» much money to get something noticeable, but most of all because you will
» want to see many WOW! results before you ever go for it, because you are
» already warned that HT sucks and HM need not fool you at anytime,
» anywhere. It takes time for a product who is using a cutting edge
» technology not widely available to spread onto celebrity and fame. If you
» have the slightest doubt about the procedure, which the normal reaction
» any human being should have right now, i think you understand what i’am
» saying.
»
»
» Speaking for myself, I had many many hopes on HM and still have, but not
» anymore in my near future (in a 5 years time). Now i see the reality like
» it is : a new technology is always promising, but is never
» operationnal on the first time. Remember what Washenik said a loooong time
» ago : “the hm technology will be an iterative process, it’s not like it’s
» here and it’s done”. And the man who is telling you this is the man who’s
» supposed to sell you the product. See what i mean ?
» Anyway, i’m now ready to get flamed up or not…I know i’m somehow right
» so i don’t need to elaborate really. I just care about my baldness who
» will suck for some more time, eh. But life isn’t perfect i guess.
»
» cheers
well actually you are right. if you wanted a wow-HM you are in the wrong place.
it does increase hair, but its nothing like perfect. the first version of HM will probably be only something like minox, with the difference that you dont have to use it every day.