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» it does increase hair,
no. It might increase hair if you read the figures. And not necessarly a big increase.
» but its nothing like perfect. the first version of
» HM will probably be only something like minox, with the difference that
» you dont have to use it every day.
if you’re satysfied with the results, good for you. And if you’re willing to spend 5000$ for another minox with the only difference that you dont have to use it every day, good for you. I expect something better, yes.
» » it does increase hair, but its nothing like perfect. the first version
» of
» » HM will probably be only something like minox, with the difference that
» » you dont have to use it every day.
»
» if you’re satysfied with the results, good for you. And if you’re willing
» to spend 5000$ for another minox with the only difference that you dont
» have to use it every day, good for you. I expect something better, yes.
i see it this way. with things where chances are 50:50 or lower , always expect miss-success.
i think for me this is good news. i still have a bit less of half of the hair i once had as teenager. if HM could give me for 5k $ 30-40 % more hair and it was save , i would go for it next year.
anyway please remind. this is about first version of HM. they will make it better by time. if you expected a perfect HM in 2008 , you were wrong, but it looks good that by the time of 2015 there will be a good nice HM which gives a completley nw 6-7 a full head of hair. thats just my prediction.
i just hope that this first HM-procedure can change your hair in the way that it wont be sensitive to DHT anymore. then i could have more hair and i wouldnt need medis anymore. that would be fantastic. but i would be happy with just 30-40 % more hair in any way if i could have it - save - next year for a resonable price.
as long as i understand it, it works the better the more hair you still have.
this is so great! if now everything goes like it seems, this is great news for me!
» » it does increase hair,
»
» no. It might increase hair if you read the figures. And not
» necessarly a big increase.
»
» » but its nothing like perfect. the first version of
» » HM will probably be only something like minox, with the difference that
» » you dont have to use it every day.
»
» if you’re satysfied with the results, good for you. And if you’re willing
» to spend 5000$ for another minox with the only difference that you dont
» have to use it every day, good for you. I expect something better, yes.
You are wrong, this thing works. They make hair in every head they inject. Only difference is that, at that dose, some people grow +13% hair and some +100% hair. Thats only mean that you need to increase the dosage in people that doesnt build enough hair, not that system doesn´t work.
This shit is the cure.
» » » it does increase hair, but its nothing like perfect. the first version
» » of
» » » HM will probably be only something like minox, with the difference
» that
» » » you dont have to use it every day.
» »
» » if you’re satysfied with the results, good for you. And if you’re
» willing
» » to spend 5000$ for another minox with the only difference that you dont
» » have to use it every day, good for you. I expect something better, yes.
»
» i see it this way. with things where chances are 50:50 or lower , always
» expect miss-success.
»
» i think for me this is good news. i still have a bit less of half of the
» hair i once had as teenager. if HM could give me for 5k $ 30-40 % more
» hair and it was save , i would go for it next year.
»
» anyway please remind. this is about first version of HM. they will make it
» better by time. if you expected a perfect HM in 2008 , you were wrong, but
» it looks good that by the time of 2015 there will be a good nice HM which
» gives a completley nw 6-7 a full head of hair. thats just my prediction.
»
» i just hope that this first HM-procedure can change your hair in the way
» that it wont be sensitive to DHT anymore. then i could have more hair and
» i wouldnt need medis anymore. that would be fantastic. but i would be
» happy with just 30-40 % more hair in any way if i could have it - save -
» next year for a resonable price.
of course i didn’t expect a perfect HM. The problem is not that you should expect 30%, 40% or else of regrowth. The problem is the procedure is not consistent : it may well give you 0% percent regrowth. Anyway, there is a very few chances it comes out anytime before 2009. Also remember it’s a small compagny who can bankrupt more easily than a big one. Time will tell, but i wouldn’t be too optimistic if i where you.
» You are wrong, this thing works. They make hair in every head they
» inject. Only difference is that, at that dose, some people grow +13%
» hair and some +100% hair. Thats only mean that you need to increase the
» dosage in people that doesnt build enough hair, not that system doesn´t
» work.
In the first sub-group 2 patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%) at 24 weeks.
buy some glasses
» » » it does increase hair,
» »
» » no. It might increase hair if you read the figures. And not
» » necessarly a big increase.
» »
» » » but its nothing like perfect. the first version of
» » » HM will probably be only something like minox, with the difference
» that
» » » you dont have to use it every day.
» »
» » if you’re satysfied with the results, good for you. And if you’re
» willing
» » to spend 5000$ for another minox with the only difference that you dont
» » have to use it every day, good for you. I expect something better, yes.
»
» You are wrong, this thing works. They make hair in every head they
» inject. Only difference is that, at that dose, some people grow +13%
» hair and some +100% hair. Thats only mean that you need to increase the
» dosage in people that doesnt build enough hair, not that system doesn´t
» work.
»
» This shit is the cure.
ya, its a great thing!
they just need to find the right dosage! so at the half of 2008 they will show more results. they may be even better! and then at the end of 2008 or at 2009 it will be on the market. i dont think that they will get bankrupt or if they will , any other company will buy HM.
» » You are wrong, this thing works. They make hair in every head they
» » inject. Only difference is that, at that dose, some people grow
» +13%
» » hair and some +100% hair. Thats only mean that you need to increase the
» » dosage in people that doesnt build enough hair, not that system doesn´t
» » work.
»
» In the first sub-group 2 patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in
» hair count (21 & 55%) at 24 weeks.
»
» buy some glasses
this was the group which wasnt injected that recently. so it doesnt mean anything. phase II is to find the right dosage and with the other dosage it worked in every subject!
» » “Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the
» » sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group
» 2
» » patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%)
» at
» » 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more
» » recently,
» » all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6
» » and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is
» » attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the
» » stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will be
» » treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all
» » subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This
» » detailed analysis will form the
» » basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
» » At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much
» » larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2
» » patients have been lost to follow up.”
»
» wow … this is what i call wow-so-so results, and remember those restults
» are compiled from 10 patients only! Afterall, it sounds exactly like what i
» expected (but not what i expect) : an isolagen-like procedure whose results
» are not consistent. Let’s face it guys, the reason some people disagree on
» this board regarding HM is just a matter of viewing the problem from two
» different angles :
»
» - if you look at HM from the innovative way, you’ll go like “wow, it’s a
» VERY encouraging technology!!”. Results are still experimental but trials
» are here and the technology is slowly gaining some accuracy and it shall
» converge to something efficient in the long run. Science rock, true that,
» true that.
»
» - if you look at HM from the commercial way, it’s not coming to your house
» anytime soon. The Nathan-like, TheGame & other insiders-messiah posters may
» give you hope with zero backed-up stuff, but here is some concrete stuff :
» one firm, 10 patients, so-so results. Look at the figures if you’re not
» convinced. The procedure needs some more testing, some more consistancy,
» some more accuracy, some more reliability, some more just about
» everything.
» Here’s another concrete element : unmet delays. Because the world doesn’t
» work like a ticking watch, especially when implementing a research-based
» product.
» One last last food for thought : even if HM thing reaches the market, in
» several years that is, you may easily add for yourself another couple of
» years before you eventually take the decision to do it for you. Why ?
» Because the HM -house won’t be located near you, or because you’ll need
» much money to get something noticeable, but most of all because you will
» want to see many WOW! results before you ever go for it, because you are
» already warned that HT sucks and HM need not fool you at anytime,
» anywhere. It takes time for a product who is using a cutting edge
» technology not widely available to spread onto celebrity and fame. If you
» have the slightest doubt about the procedure, which the normal reaction
» any human being should have right now, i think you understand what i’am
» saying.
»
»
» Speaking for myself, I had many many hopes on HM and still have, but not
» anymore in my near future (in a 5 years time). Now i see the reality like
» it is : a new technology is always promising, but is never
» operationnal on the first time. Remember what Washenik said a loooong time
» ago : “the hm technology will be an iterative process, it’s not like it’s
» here and it’s done”. And the man who is telling you this is the man who’s
» supposed to sell you the product. See what i mean ?
» Anyway, i’m now ready to get flamed up or not…I know i’m somehow right
» so i don’t need to elaborate really. I just care about my baldness who
» will suck for some more time, eh. But life isn’t perfect i guess.
»
» cheers
Man this sux. And there’s really nothing to cheer about. This calls for a shot of vodka and a vicodin kicker!
» » » “Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between
» the
» » » sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first
» sub-group
» » 2
» » » patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 &
» 55%)
» » at
» » » 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more
» » » recently,
» » » all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at
» 6
» » » and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production
» is
» » » attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the
» » » stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will
» be
» » » treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on
» all
» » » subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This
» » » detailed analysis will form the
» » » basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
» » » At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a
» much
» » » larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently
» 2
» » » patients have been lost to follow up.”
» »
» » wow … this is what i call wow-so-so results, and remember those
» restults
» » are compiled from 10 patients only! Afterall, it sounds exactly like
» what i
» » expected (but not what i expect) : an isolagen-like procedure whose
» results
» » are not consistent. Let’s face it guys, the reason some people disagree
» on
» » this board regarding HM is just a matter of viewing the problem from
» two
» » different angles :
» »
» » - if you look at HM from the innovative way, you’ll go like “wow, it’s
» a
» » VERY encouraging technology!!”. Results are still experimental but
» trials
» » are here and the technology is slowly gaining some accuracy and it
» shall
» » converge to something efficient in the long run. Science rock, true
» that,
» » true that.
» »
» » - if you look at HM from the commercial way, it’s not coming to your
» house
» » anytime soon. The Nathan-like, TheGame & other insiders-messiah posters
» may
» » give you hope with zero backed-up stuff, but here is some concrete stuff
» :
» » one firm, 10 patients, so-so results. Look at the figures if you’re not
» » convinced. The procedure needs some more testing, some more
» consistancy,
» » some more accuracy, some more reliability, some more just about
» » everything.
» » Here’s another concrete element : unmet delays. Because the world
» doesn’t
» » work like a ticking watch, especially when implementing a
» research-based
» » product.
» » One last last food for thought : even if HM thing reaches the market,
» in
» » several years that is, you may easily add for yourself another couple
» of
» » years before you eventually take the decision to do it for you. Why ?
» » Because the HM -house won’t be located near you, or because you’ll need
» » much money to get something noticeable, but most of all because you
» will
» » want to see many WOW! results before you ever go for it, because you
» are
» » already warned that HT sucks and HM need not fool you at anytime,
» » anywhere. It takes time for a product who is using a cutting edge
» » technology not widely available to spread onto celebrity and fame. If
» you
» » have the slightest doubt about the procedure, which the normal reaction
» » any human being should have right now, i think you understand what i’am
» » saying.
» »
» »
» » Speaking for myself, I had many many hopes on HM and still have, but
» not
» » anymore in my near future (in a 5 years time). Now i see the reality
» like
» » it is : a new technology is always promising, but is never
» » operationnal on the first time. Remember what Washenik said a loooong
» time
» » ago : “the hm technology will be an iterative process, it’s not like
» it’s
» » here and it’s done”. And the man who is telling you this is the man
» who’s
» » supposed to sell you the product. See what i mean ?
» » Anyway, i’m now ready to get flamed up or not…I know i’m somehow
» right
» » so i don’t need to elaborate really. I just care about my baldness who
» » will suck for some more time, eh. But life isn’t perfect i guess.
» »
» » cheers
»
»
» Man this sux. And there’s really nothing to cheer about. This calls for a
» shot of vodka and a vicodin kicker!
come on , what did you expect? HM works! and they will improve it. so dont be disappointed. they have a whole phase III for making it the best they can!
in 5-10 years HM will be great for everyone.
you didnt expect a perfect hm next year, did you?
what i want to know now, is if these DP cells which are injected can reform the follicles you still have so that they are protected from DHT.
if that was the case this thing will be the best thing for my hair ever.
ICX+TRC “results encouraging”; ALL patients showed significant regrowth; up to 103%.
Their product VAVELTA is not yet in Phase III clinical trials, yet it’s already been placed on the market for patients. This shows that this CAN be done. This coincides with their prediction of possible limited commercialization in 2008.
I don’t want to argue with you, pat, because of the good news. You and I grew up in different cultures with different ways of thinking. I read a statement and my mind spins it one way; you read the same text and you see something else in it. It doesn’t matter now anyway.
» ICX+TRC “results encouraging”; ALL patients showed significant regrowth; up
» to 103%.
»
» Their product VAVELTA is not yet in Phase III clinical trials, yet it’s
» already been placed on the market for patients. This shows that this CAN
» be done. This coincides with their prediction of possible limited
» commercialization in 2008.
JTR how would you interpret the 103% regrowth? How would you understand it?
Does it mean that they had like 100% percent regrowth for the treatment received?
» “New IP being generated” ???(WTF does this mean?)
It means new intellectual property is being generated, like a new patent.
»
» JTR how would you interpret the 103% regrowth? How would you understand
» it?
»
» Does it mean that they had like 100% percent regrowth for the treatment
» received?
Very hard to say. Actually remember, this is a VERY small area of skin they’re talking about. I believe that the 103% figure would mean that the number of hairs more than doubled. And we’re also talking about a very big spread – I think it was 13 to 103 percent. In any event, these results are numerically much better than the Phase I results.
I think this is good news u know. The key word is “substantial”
They’re not seeing crappy hair which is created by topicals. They are seeing terminal hair is huge quantities.
105% is quite remarkable. Remember no 2 ppl r the same and likewise no 2 heads r the same. The guy who got a 13% increase might need an additional session or an increase in dosage.
For those of u were moaning about delays the following statement proves there werent any -
Preliminary data from Phase II trial of ICX-TRC for hair regeneration shows increased hair counts and good safety profile
They promised Prelimary data in the middle of 2007 and that what they had. When they they make the entire preliminary data available to us (seems like early next yr) doesnt really matter. It’s what they have not us that matters.
Vavelta was introduced in June 2007. It has been fastracked. We’r likely to c the same with TRC.
» There is one pdf and one powerpoint.
» The following can be downloaded from the following address.
»
» http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/releases/2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
» and
» http://www.intercytex.com/icx/investors/rep/rep2007/2007-09-25/2007-09-25.pdf
»
» This is the key point mentioned about ICX-TRC.
»
» “Although it is too early to determine fully the differences between the
» sub-groups, the preliminary data are encouraging. In the first sub-group 2
» patients out of 5 showed substantial increases in hair count (21 & 55%) at
» 24 weeks. In the second sub-group (5 patients in total) injected more
» recently,
» all patients showed substantial and visible increased hair counts at 6
» and/or 12 weeks (13-105%). We believe this increased hair production is
» attributable to the interaction between the injected DP cells and the
» stimulated resident hair producing cells. A further 8 subjects will be
» treated with variations in delivery technique. The full data set on all
» subjects at 24 weeks will be available in the middle of 2008. This
» detailed analysis will form the
» basis of further Phase II or Phase III trials as appropriate.
» At the end of the trial photographic data will be analysed from a much
» larger area of treated scalp on all subjects at 12 months. Currently 2
» patients have been lost to follow up.”
So, trying to unwrap this thing:
A new trial with 8 patients will begin soon- a report on their results (24 weeks after) will be available in mid-2008.
Those results will lead to another Phase II or Phase III trial. (about another year- to mid 2009)
At the end of this last trial, data from all the patients will be analyzed for a 12 month report. Does this mean 2010?
I guess that’s around what they were saying from the beginning. But would still be disappointing if it turned out that way.
Now we wait for mid-2008.
» I don’t want to argue with you, pat, because of the good news. You and I
» grew up in different cultures with different ways of thinking. I read a
» statement and my mind spins it one way; you read the same text and you see
» something else in it. It doesn’t matter now anyway.
oh, JTR, it would be interesting to go in deep about our different cultures.
Regarding that, what is my culture? mediterranean, technological,…???bah??
No, don’t answer…
My culture is having a dialectical confrontation with who thinks different by me. For understanding.
In my old work, as researcher, also when the experiment went bad or not so good, “my mind spins it one way”…
bah…
» bah…
Bah? And again bah? That’s very articulate, isn’t it?
» » » you guys need to get real , and realize that HM is just a pipe dream
» at
» » » this time
» »
» » NO. It is working right now.
»
»
» yes and little green men landed behind my house last night
»
» its working, where? can you access it? nope, its in some lab somewhere
» with a bunch of guys running around trying to figure out what to say, to
» make people think its " jusr around the corner" and to just be patient
»
» this , another few years always turns out to be more than they predict
»
» so if they say 2 or 3 yrs count on 10 yrs
» if they say 10 yrs it means they have no idea what they are doing and the
» technology has not yet been invented
oh yea thas right, your super vitamins are the cure we forgot, lol.
» » bah…
»
» Bah? And again bah? That’s very articulate, isn’t it?
My culture is having a dialectical confrontation with who thinks different by me. For understanding. is it clear now?
For me it could be interesting to know the opinion from who -i know- has different one. simple.
about the results and about the delay.
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