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If you don\'t believe in shedding you will now


#21

Damn, Marco. That really sucks ass. I don’t know what it is about minox foam. I have been using regular minox for over a decade with no problem at all. I tried minox foam when it first came out and quit after a month or so because of absurd shedding. I don’t subscribe to the “shedding is a sign of regrowth” bullshit. This is a myth. If this were the case, I would have regrown enough hair for many lifetimes. I have received very good results with plain minox over the years and this was brought to my attention when I stopped using it and lost a good percentage of my hair - one of the biggest hair mistakes I have ever made. I hope things turn around for you.


#22

the experiment is good and all but not on the follicles that are susceptible to DHT which is in the recipient area.

So you never used the cream/broken capsules on top? be honest. I keep saying be honest… not to discredit you. I respect the hell out of you… just sometimes it is hard to say things. I know this.


#23

» Damn, Marco. That really sucks ass. I don’t know what it is about minox
» foam. I have been using regular minox for over a decade with no problem at
» all. I tried minox foam when it first came out and quit after a month or so
» because of absurd shedding. I don’t subscribe to the “shedding is a sign of
» regrowth” bullshit. This is a myth.

Couldn’t agree more. I never heard so much scientific mumbo jumbo justifying shedding as a good thing. I know shedding is a common start to treatments but it is not intrinsically linked to regrowth.

» If this were the case, I would have
» regrown enough hair for many lifetimes.

Me too!!! but if I never tried anything I would still be going the B word way:-)

» with plain minox over the years and this was brought to my attention when
» I stopped using it and lost a good percentage of my hair - one of the
» biggest hair mistakes I have ever made. I hope things turn around for you.

Cheers but lets face it, I’m losing my hair. Oh, I think the shed may have abaited but I not sure if that cos I have no hair left:crying:


#24

» the experiment is good and all but not on the follicles that are
» susceptible to DHT which is in the recipient area.

Dut is not good for DHT susceptible follicles? the experimet was on my face!

»
» So you never used the cream/broken capsules on top? be honest. I keep
» saying be honest… not to discredit you. I respect the hell out of you…
» just sometimes it is hard to say things. I know this.

Thomas, I just explained this in the post you are replying to. I used dut on my scalp for a few weeks but felt that it started a shed so I stopped.


#25

» » the experiment is good and all but not on the follicles that are
» » susceptible to DHT which is in the recipient area.
»
» Dut is not good for DHT susceptible follicles? the experimet was on my
» face!
»
» »
» » So you never used the cream/broken capsules on top? be honest. I keep
» » saying be honest… not to discredit you. I respect the hell out of
» you…
» » just sometimes it is hard to say things. I know this.
»
»
» Thomas, I just explained this in the post you are replying to. I used dut
» on my scalp for a few weeks but felt that it started a shed so I stopped.

Aha… you stopped but when… maybe you already answered that… I apologize if you did. I just want to make sure you are a serious unique case because if
it was something by mistake then we need to address it… then go from there…

Consider this…

Let’s say you took too much Dutasteride and finasteride at the same time. And even in your facial experiments… you still had absorption of dutasteride systemically… well what would happen in that case? Well in theory a huge suppression of DHT… which will bio feedback to your testicles… as this…
We need more testosterone production… so your body increases testosterone production. Then all of the sudden you quit one of the drugs… then you have excess testosterone… then you have excess DHT enzyme production, then you have increased ravashing of follicles from the increased DHT.

Which all will result in acceleration of hairloss.


#26

»
» Consider this…
»
» Let’s say you took too much Dutasteride and finasteride at the same time.
» And even in your facial experiments… you still had absorption of
» dutasteride systemically… well what would happen in that case? Well in
» theory a huge suppression of DHT… which will bio feedback to your
» testicles… as this…
» We need more testosterone production… so your body increases
» testosterone production. Then all of the sudden you quit one of the
» drugs… then you have excess testosterone… then you have excess DHT
» enzyme production, then you have increased ravashing of follicles from the
» increased DHT.
»
» Which all will result in acceleration of hairloss.

I was one of the sticklers for dicipline. I just took .5mg dut for 3.5 years. That’s it. These experiments were just a couple of capsules spread over a few weeks.

There were discussions for several years about the sort of issues you are raising. A poster called Brian shelten lead many of the discussions. There are many theories about compensation for reduction of DHT. Raised estrogen; raised testosterone; the effects of type I 5AR vs type II; the impact on DEAE and many many others. The short story is that some people shed and the hair does NOT grow back. Hairsite did an analysis that was quite an epic and the good responders were outnumbered by the shedders.


#27

So then you were freakon unique then… which sucks. You were one of a very low number of cases that freakon shed with no regrowth.

Ok so we covered your diet. Your medication regimen. alcohol and nicotine usage. familial history. You still never answered if you drink absinthe but it isn’t something that I have found to be a factor anyway but I do know it is legal in the UK.

Where do we go from here?:frowning:


#28

» So then you were freakon unique then… which sucks. You were one of a
» very low number of cases that freakon shed with no regrowth.
»
» Ok so we covered your diet. Your medication regimen. alcohol and nicotine
» usage. familial history. You still never answered if you drink absinthe
» but it isn’t something that I have found to be a factor anyway but I do
» know it is legal in the UK.
»

I am strictly sambuca tequila and whisky on the occasions that I am out but not in the same glass (well untill after 12.00PM at least)

» Where do we go from here?:frowning:

transplant:-(


#29

Marco and Thomas I swear you and I look alike.


#30

I won’t lie I drink pretty much a lot. Pain from the past. But anyway.


#31

» » » So you when you shed the hell and back did you immediately stop Dut.,
» or
» » » did you continue for six months or more and then give up?
» »
» » i took dut for three and a half years. I shed for the first year. So I
» was
» » on dut for two and a half years after the shed stopped.
»
» Un freakon believable Marco. Have you found anyone elso that had this
» problem? Mass shedding with Dutasteride as apposed to finasteride.
»

Hairtech- you covered the theories on why Marco had a shed due to the DHT or alpha II/III inhibitors but why the shed due to an entirely different substance such as Minoxidil? Do you feel that an ingredient in the foam that is not present in the liquid could have something to do with this? This baffles me- I have never understood the mechanics behind the so called “good shed”. When I shed, it usually is because of stress and I know that is a bad thing.


#32

Look Marco… If I were you I would buzz my head… I tell you what you and I look alike. I will take a picture of my head now and buzz my head for you and show you if you want to see the comparison. We have similar characteristics. I will take it down for you. And I wanted to anyway. Stop the dermamatch stuff. Give a buzz a try. I will wait for your answer. No skin off my back cause I wanted to do it anyway… but given that we look alike it might work in your favor. I have friend in Atlanta… a technician that is one of my dear friends that went to a NW 6 before 30 but he shaved his head and it looks good.


#33

MPB,

I honestly don’t know… I sent this thread to Dr. Harris hoping that something can be brought to light about it. But in reality I don’t know what happened. At least in the education that I have thus far… so many variables you see.

wait a second. what do you mean you shed during stress? You have intermittent stressful situations that causes shedding… then hair growth returns when the stress subsides? I don’t know if that is the deal here.


#34

Waiting…


#35

» Look Marco… If I were you I would buzz my head… I tell you what you and
» I look alike. I will take a picture of my head now and buzz my head for you
» and show you if you want to see the comparison. We have similar
» characteristics. I will take it down for you. And I wanted to anyway.
» Stop the dermamatch stuff. Give a buzz a try. I will wait for your
» answer. No skin off my back cause I wanted to do it anyway… but given
» that we look alike it might work in your favor. I have friend in
» Atlanta… a technician that is one of my dear friends that went to a NW 6
» before 30 but he shaved his head and it looks good.

I really haven’t decided on my next step. It’s late in the U.K so I am out of here!


#36

» Waiting…

Thanks Hairtech - that would be interesting to know how a vasodilator causes hair to go telogen.


#37

Too bad Marco I will show you a buzzed look. then u decide. I know u are 8 hours ahead of the us in eastern standards. When u get up check your thread because I am takin it down.


#38

» » Waiting…
»
»
» Thanks Hairtech - that would be interesting to know how a vasodilator
» causes hair to go telogen.

That is an oxymoron because vasoconstrictors do this… go back to my answer to my question because I edited it and asked you more questions.


#39

» » » » So you when you shed the hell and back did you immediately stop
» Dut.,
» » or
» » » » did you continue for six months or more and then give up?
» » »
» » » i took dut for three and a half years. I shed for the first year. So
» I
» » was
» » » on dut for two and a half years after the shed stopped.
» »
» » Un freakon believable Marco. Have you found anyone elso that had this
» » problem? Mass shedding with Dutasteride as apposed to finasteride.
» »
»
» Hairtech- you covered the theories on why Marco had a shed due to the DHT
» or alpha II/III inhibitors but why the shed due to an entirely different
» substance such as Minoxidil? Do you feel that an ingredient in the foam
» that is not present in the liquid could have something to do with this?
» This baffles me- I have never understood the mechanics behind the so
» called “good shed”. When I shed, it usually is because of stress and I
» know that is a bad thing.

MPB, I think it is something like this and it is a theory but not a fact. Telogen can be a stable phase, that is a fact. In other words hair can stay firmly attached for a long long time in teloge but it is not doing anyhting and cannot grow because it is retracted from the matrix and is not fed by matrix cells. Again that is a fact and body hair is an example where the majotrity of hair is in this phase. There are messangers that cause hair to detach. Caspases etc. Then there is a phase that is not often mentioned called kinogen (empty follicle). Many tratments stimulate the transformation from telogen to kinogen but… and this is the theory, if that can not be orchestrated with a new anagen then you are on a lose lose. Basically the theory is that some people can only half react to a treatment.


#40

» MPB,
»
» I honestly don’t know… I sent this thread to Dr. Harris hoping that
» something can be brought to light about it. But in reality I don’t know
» what happened. At least in the education that I have thus far… so many
» variables you see.
»
» wait a second. what do you mean you shed during stress? You have
» intermittent stressful situations that causes shedding… then hair growth
» returns when the stress subsides? I don’t know if that is the deal here.

I didn’t think it was uncommon to shed during stress… at least that was what the dermatologist said. I was at one point getting corticosteroid shots to the head. What causes this intermittent stress- probably the reality of baldness:-( -how ironic. If it wasnt the case- what do you believe the case to be?