» » Rev you need word your lines a little more carefully. I wasn’t out to
» » discredit histogen, I’ve always actually done the opposite to the
» » pessimists. But that doesn’t mean I can’t voice a concern in hopes that
» it
» » will become clarified by someone here. Do realize that some of us may
» not
» » be reading here or posting here as often as you are or others are. And
» » nobody is arguing with you and or anyone else nor do I invite an
» argument
» » with anyone…why can’t people share views without resulting in arguing
» or
» » fighting?
»
» I wasn’t talking about you. No need for the paranoia.
I thought I was the only that was showing concern, my bad. I take that back bro
It’s 2013 in other countries. Now let’s do the math: 2013 is four years from now, and according to Dr. Naughton it will be another year before it’s available in the US. In other words: It’s five years away. (Now where have I heard this number before… Hmmmmm…)
» » Is 2013 in the US or other countries?
»
» It’s 2013 in other countries. Now let’s do the math: 2013 is four years
» from now, and according to Dr. Naughton it will be another year before it’s
» available in the US. In other words: It’s five years away. (Now where have
» I heard this number before… Hmmmmm…)
If someone will give me a full head of hairs i will run to get it in guatemala too.
People seems stupid, once wants hairs, when maybe can get hairs wants hairs near his home. The place is undifferent, we need only an efficent procedure.
shes promising something thats clearly just her dream. in other words, its a lie and shes aware of it at some level.
2013 release would be a miracle.
2015 may be possible abroad
2020 with current regulations if it works great and no significant problems are met
never - if it fails or is stopped for any reason.
» shes promising something thats clearly just her dream. in other words, its
» a lie and shes aware of it at some level.
»
» 2013 release would be a miracle.
» 2015 may be possible abroad
» 2020 with current regulations if it works great and no significant
» problems are met
» never - if it fails or is stopped for any reason.
»
» where never is the most probable scenario (50+%).
She wasn’t promising those dates. She was merely answering a question that had the inherent assumption that the product actually works.
» » This is all mental masturbation. No real new info, just jerking
» ourselves
» » around in circles re-interpreting existing data and scattered comments.
»
» yeah totaly I just came here after several months of not reading
» anything.
»
» btw the HSC stuff seems to actually work. This is first time I see a
» product thats trialed and seems beyond any shadow of doubt to be working.
»
» the problem now is only if there will be sides or risks for which it could
» get cut back.
»
» and the other problem is time. Trialing this sht will take shtloads of
» time. And then there are approvals and all the bureaucracy.
»
» all in all. Im glad that it works. They published some very concrete data,
» and showed photograps as well, this basicaly means that it works rly well.
»
» On the picture I can see quite remarkable improvement. If this is what 1
» injection can do, then I want 50 of these on every cm of my scalp please
»
»
»
» ANYONE HAS SOME IDEA WHAT THE HSC IS COOMPOSED OF? … i mean are there
» any papers or patents that we could use to get an idea?
» I knew there must be something im not seeing
»
» The fact that after their first test they shared only 3 month growth
» suggests that the final 5month result was actually worse.
»
» So basicaly the guys grew some hair at 3 months, but lost some of it
» before 5months.
»
» This SUCKS
»
» BTW Has this question been asked in that interview hairsite was talking
» about?
Heres the thing - there is growing evidence that baldness comes about because DHT interferes with wnt signalling. There are abunch of different signalling compounds such as WNT, EGF, KGF, FGF, EDA that have something to say about whether an epithelial cell will become a skin cell or a hair cell. The distribution of these antagonistic molecules determine the spacing of hair follicles on your head and are responsible for the skin on the palms of your hand from being hairless. We are looking at stuff that is way more fundamental to hair growth than androgens could ever be.
In balding scalp the signalling balance seems to sway towards producing smaller and smaller hairs and eventually producing hairless skin. One study has shown that DHT causes balding scalp to secrete a WNT antagonist and another recently showed something similar. So already in balding scalp there is an environment that is directly antagonistic to the sort of signalling that these guys are trying to promote which would explain why results are not as dramatic as in a relatively neutral environment like say the hair on a mouse.
The good news though is that this means that this is quite probably the exactly where to frig around if you want to halt and even reverse hairloss and its probably possible to overwhelm in turn the effects of DHT. On the bad news front this stuff is much more complex than at the propecia level where you just want to stop DHT from forming all the time. These signalling proteins have different effects at different times and too much of a compound that may encourage hair growth can also interfere with it. We know some of this stuff but we dont know it all and Histogen are sort of going with a “lets shoot em up with some of this and see what happens” it seems rather than a slower process based on totally understanding what happens when you tweak different variables at different times which seems a little more like what Follica is doing. If you get lucky though near enough might be good enough for some impressive results and this may be the case with Histogen as they ramp up their human testing.
Based on all of this I strongly suspect that yeah results are going to be better with multiple treatments. I dont really see any reason why it wouldnt be the case. Though of course we have to wait and see if reality bears that out.
Bottom line - once we master this stuff then we will be able to turn hair growth on and off like a light switch. Fully understanding that may take about 10 years or so and then an undetermined length of time till it benefits us but someone like Histogen may come up with a shortcut that helps us, even if its not optimum. But yeah this stuff has the potential to do things that androgen blockade could never hope to do.
hh
really refreshing to read such a contructive, informative and well thought-out post as opposed to the politics as usual which goes on here.
interesting contribution, thanks mate.
»
» Heres the thing - there is growing evidence that baldness comes about
» because DHT interferes with wnt signalling. There are abunch of different
» signalling compounds such as WNT, EGF, KGF, FGF, EDA that have something to
» say about whether an epithelial cell will become a skin cell or a hair
» cell. The distribution of these antagonistic molecules determine the
» spacing of hair follicles on your head and are responsible for the skin on
» the palms of your hand from being hairless. We are looking at stuff that is
» way more fundamental to hair growth than androgens could ever be.
»
» In balding scalp the signalling balance seems to sway towards producing
» smaller and smaller hairs and eventually producing hairless skin. One study
» has shown that DHT causes balding scalp to secrete a WNT antagonist and
» another recently showed something similar. So already in balding scalp
» there is an environment that is directly antagonistic to the sort of
» signalling that these guys are trying to promote which would explain why
» results are not as dramatic as in a relatively neutral environment like say
» the hair on a mouse.
»
» The good news though is that this means that this is quite probably the
» exactly where to frig around if you want to halt and even reverse hairloss
» and its probably possible to overwhelm in turn the effects of DHT. On the
» bad news front this stuff is much more complex than at the propecia level
» where you just want to stop DHT from forming all the time. These signalling
» proteins have different effects at different times and too much of a
» compound that may encourage hair growth can also interfere with it. We know
» some of this stuff but we dont know it all and Histogen are sort of going
» with a “lets shoot em up with some of this and see what happens” it seems
» rather than a slower process based on totally understanding what happens
» when you tweak different variables at different times which seems a little
» more like what Follica is doing. If you get lucky though near enough might
» be good enough for some impressive results and this may be the case with
» Histogen as they ramp up their human testing.
»
» Based on all of this I strongly suspect that yeah results are going to be
» better with multiple treatments. I dont really see any reason why it
» wouldnt be the case. Though of course we have to wait and see if reality
» bears that out.
»
» Bottom line - once we master this stuff then we will be able to turn hair
» growth on and off like a light switch. Fully understanding that may take
» about 10 years or so and then an undetermined length of time till it
» benefits us but someone like Histogen may come up with a shortcut that
» helps us, even if its not optimum. But yeah this stuff has the potential to
» do things that androgen blockade could never hope to do.
» hh
One study has shown that DHT causes balding scalp to secrete a WNT antagonist and another recently showed something similar.
You say DHT was doing this rather than “androgens” were doing it?
On the whole I agree that this is way off the chart from simple androgen blockades. It would seem to be finally attacking the core problem - what the androgens DO to the follicles, and how to see about counteracting/reversing it.
It brings me to another concern, the issue of reversing the effects on existing follicles or creating new follicles. Throughout much of the wounding-based science lately there seems to be little focus being put on which of these two processes is producing the gains. It troubles me that not only do they not seem to know, but they don’t even seem to be very concerned with the issue at all. Maybe they know more than I think they do, but right now I wonder if they even know the implications of exactly what they are doing before trying to make a product out of it. Used incorrectly, I suspect this kind of science could cause many other problems aside from just the risk of tumors.
» Yes, thanks for the insightful post Haroldo.
»
»
» One study has shown that DHT causes balding scalp to
» secrete a WNT antagonist and another recently showed something
» similar.
»
» You say DHT was doing this rather than “androgens” were doing it?
DHT but any androgen that bound to the androgen receptor would presumably have the same effect.
» On the whole I agree that this is way off the chart from simple androgen
» blockades. It would seem to be finally attacking the core problem - what
» the androgens DO to the follicles, and how to see about
» counteracting/reversing it.
»
» It brings me to another concern, the issue of reversing the effects on
» existing follicles or creating new follicles. Throughout much of the
» wounding-based science lately there seems to be little focus being put on
» which of these two processes is producing the gains. It troubles me that
» not only do they not seem to know, but they don’t even seem to be very
» concerned with the issue at all. Maybe they know more than I think they
» do, but right now I wonder if they even know the implications of exactly
» what they are doing before trying to make a product out of it. Used
» incorrectly, I suspect this kind of science could cause many other problems
» aside from just the risk of tumors.
wnt signalling both prolongs anagen and increases the formation of new hair follicles when wounding is used to produce new hair. If it is chronically upregulated then these follicles seem to become less like follicles and more like benign tumours. Basically wnt proteins seem to be very “hairogenic” but the precise details of where, when and the interaction with other hairogenic and anti-hairogenic factors is very complex, not completely understood and not that clear in my mind atm.
That’s been my feelings about the WNT effects too. It seems to be capable of growing “hairlike structures” but it’s not a slam-dunk effect to grow nice & complete hairs any time the process is activated.
What do you mean by “chronic” stimulation of WNT? I’ve seen that phrase being used in the write-ups but I don’t remember hearing much more elaboration on it.
The Folica crowd doesn’t seem to be intending to do anything to a wound area for more than a few weeks.
» I knew there must be something im not seeing
»
» The fact that after their first test they shared only 3 month growth
» suggests that the final 5month result was actually worse.
»
» So basicaly the guys grew some hair at 3 months, but lost some of it
» before 5months.
»
» This SUCKS
»
» BTW Has this question been asked in that interview hairsite was talking
» about?
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I just came here after several months of not reading anything.
I just came here after several months of not reading