Hair transplant: body hair history

» What you see is what you get IMO is the length and caliber. And how I would
» look at it is this: If you look at your chest, this is what you should
» expect if transplanting at an equal density.
»
»
» Now at Dr. Harris’s office, he doubled up on the single BHT’s. And in the
» only case of BHT I worked on with him, I saw growth using that format.
» Most BHT’s run in singles and a few sporatic 2’s. Some lucky individuals
» have more than normal 2’s and I have seen only one 3 haired BHT graft in
» my life. Anyway since, most BHT’s are no where near the caliber of scalp
» as well as come in mostly singles, you run into issues of coverage per
» graft. And on top of that you are paying per graft… in a BHT you are
» paying $5 to $10 per graft… and in most cases per hair.

Hairtech, what are you thoughts on hair farming and using beard hair to replace the donor? Do you have any experience with beard hair?

Rooster,

Yes, I do. And let me just say this… If there is any non-scalp hair that is the most promising… it is definitively beard hair. The length and caliber are similar to scalp… Wood’s opinion is that it looks unnatural to scalp… and he states that there is an inherent scarring risk of great proportion because you are dealing with the face. I agree. But I also think that conservative approach could prove beneficial. And Woods has always maintained this approach. That is why he is not sitting in a whirlwind of accusations of body scarring and failed bht cases that has cost patients thousands.

» Rooster,
»
» Yes, I do. And let me just say this… If there is any non-scalp hair that
» is the most promising… it is definitively beard hair. The length and
» caliber are similar to scalp… Wood’s opinion is that it looks unnatural
» to scalp… and he states that there is an inherent scarring risk of great
» proportion because you are dealing with the face. I agree. But I also
» think that conservative approach could prove beneficial. And Woods has
» always maintained this approach. That is why he is not sitting in a
» whirlwind of accusations of body scarring and failed bht cases that has
» cost patients thousands.

Hairtech, thanks for the reply. I find your posts very informative as you are not a doctor but have been in the trenches and witnessed a lot. I had body hair in the crown and it didn’t have much cosmetic benefit for me. I feel it in the crown, but as far as visually it didn’t do much. It seems to have grown thinner than its original location on my body, or less pigmented or both. Thanks again for your thoughts. oh yea, what do you think about hair farming?

You are rude.

» You are rude.

First i didn’t know you had the name “THE” rooster. Secondly, since you’ve been a little girl about it I think i will keep it for now.

Hey, I said to you nicely a few times we should figure something out and you completely ignored me. I was just trying to get your attention. I just thought it would be confusing for two similar names.

Again, I wasn’t trying to be a dick about it. I posted like five times asking you to work something out.

rooster,

I totally overreacted. Lots of stress, life, work, etc. A bit immature to take it out on an internet site. I’m man enough to admit when I act like a bitch, so in the spirit of the holidays…I apologize.

Dr. Woods, my question got lost in this thread. I will post it again.

You said **
» Although body hair , when transplanted to the scalp, will “usually”
» increase in length, the degree of increase is dependent upon where it came
» from and how long and robust it was.
»
» Although it is usually packed more densely , fundamentally WHAT YOU SEE IS
» WHAT YOU WILL GET.
» **

If the body hair are packed more densely, why will one see hair growth like on chest. Why not denser? Is it because the haircycles do not change as Dr. A says.
Or is it that the yield will be less due to dense packing as Dr. Cole suggests?

Arun, whenever a patient has his dense chest/abdominal hair trimmed with the clippers, one thing becomes very obvious.

Once trimmed, it is plain to see that the hair are separated by greater distances than was imagined, and it is not in reality, as densely packed by nature as one would think .

The density is largely due to length, and angle of observation.

From the very earliest days of the HT Industry, doctors learnt that even poor results and low density can be disguised and sold to the public by choosing carefully selected photos with the best ANGLE OF OBERVATION.

Patients with a good hairline, but extremely poor results and low density behind the hairline can still look great,……but only if you look at them dead on.

A bald guy, with a narrow hairline rim can be presented as though he has a full head of hair.

And that same trick is used very successfully today.

The thing with chest and abdominal hair is that it is observed from a dead on angle most of the time, and the hair sits very flat against the skin.

What you need to do is find a friend with a very hairy chest. Then, in the name of scientific research , ask if you can press your ear against his belly button, and gaze upward toward his nose.
(If your request is denied, try a box of chocolates, flowers and movie tickets)

The density appears different, and proves that angle of observation is critical.

Now , as far as the hair cycle thing goes.

Yes , there may be something to it, but in the real world , I believe it to be largely IRRELEVANT.

The hair cycles don’t really make that much practical visible difference., and I believe that these long and convoluted pseudo scientific arguments are infact a mad scramble to find a credible excuse for a string of body hair failures going back about 2 years.

Body Hair “no shows” and frank failures are to be blamed on the doctor, and Not “hair cycles” which I believe to be no more than a clever distraction covering up the practice of big promises, big numbers, but in reality only delivering ragged, transected and damaged follicular fragments, which will never grow.

And lastly, dense packing.

This can only be done successfully if the follicles are perfectly extracted, and then inserted using incredibly small incisions under high power microscopic control.

It takes many, many hours of incredibly precise microsurgery .

Pre punching holes and trying to “production line” such an intricate procedure is doomed to failure.

What does succeed are the ‘MEDICAL” excused for the failures, which most people seem to accept, and the doctors are off the hook.

Dr Ray Woods

great discussion Dr. Woods

»
» Now , as far as the hair cycle thing goes.
»
» Yes , there may be something to it, but in the real world , I believe it
» to be largely IRRELEVANT.
»
» The hair cycles don’t really make that much practical visible difference.,
» and I believe that these long and convoluted pseudo scientific arguments
» are infact a mad scramble to find a credible excuse for a string of body
» hair failures going back about 2 years.
»
» Body Hair “no shows” and frank failures are to be blamed on the doctor,
» and Not “hair cycles” which I believe to be no more than a clever
» distraction covering up the practice of big promises, big numbers, but in
» reality only delivering ragged, transected and damaged follicular
» fragments, which will never grow.
»
» And lastly, dense packing.
»
» This can only be done successfully if the follicles are perfectly
» extracted, and then inserted using incredibly small incisions under high
» power microscopic control.
»
» It takes many, many hours of incredibly precise microsurgery .
»
» Pre punching holes and trying to “production line” such an intricate
» procedure is doomed to failure.
»
» What does succeed are the ‘MEDICAL” excused for the failures, which most
» people seem to accept, and the doctors are off the hook.
»
» Dr Ray Woods

Dear Ray,

I have no intention of “addressing” you as per your previous request.

However, do not take our politeness to be meekness. You can not post misleading comments and expect to get away with your guiles.

The observations and the conclusions we have posted for benefits of future patients and doctors alike have been based on follow ups of more than 200 patients. And yes, once again, we have shared them with all, because I want the field to progress. The biggest nemesis of hair transplant science is the plethora of physicians who wish to hoard their knowledge.

If you think a scientific approach to BHT is “pseudo convoluted scientific argument”, then I respect your right to your opinion and leave it at that.

I had been requesting doctors to pool in their observations years ago. Remember?!
Now we have those observations in a reasonably large cross section of cases.

I can not let future patients get misguided and base their course of treatment on anecdotal reports. I value the importance of BHT, but it can not be “BHT come what may”. If there are limitations to BHT, whether chest or leg hair, it needs to be pointed out. Then only can BH be used in the correct manner.
A correct, and yes, scientific method based approach, is the way treatments are made.

While I do not have the time or inclination for soap operas, you force me to reply to your misleading innuendos.

If its BHT results from our clinic, you shall find lots of them at the following links.

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-30179-mode-full-page-6.html

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-48309-mode-full-page-6.html

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-52071-mode-full.html

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-16629.html

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-16834.html

Regards and best wishes for you and your loved ones,
Dr. A

Dr. Woods, patient results speak louder than words. If you take a look at the hairsite chart, Dr. A now has more bht results than you do.

Yes I can. Dr Jones states that he offers BHT at a greatly reduced price and only because in his opinion BHT is so unpredictable that he cannot conscientiously offer BHT as the same as scalp. Still having said that, Dr. Jones offers BHT only for repair cases. Hopefully, if we bitch about it enough, folks in the United States will follow Dr. Jones, Dr. A’s and Dr. U’s low prices. And when other clinics (the ones that have less success with BHT) drops their prices, then maybe BHT all around will drop.

» As a young medical student , a revered senior professor told our tutorial
» group
»
» “at any one time, FIFTY PERCENT of everything you are taught will
» eventually be proven to be wrong”
»
» That was similtaneously the most profoundly disturbing and enlightening
» statement I have ever heard .
»
» Was he right ? Even if he was 50% right, it should be enough to cause
» serious thought and questioning.
»
» On the forums, I believe it holds as well.
»
» In keeping with current trends, legitimate enqiry and questioning of
» information , photos, etc seems stifled . Rarely is anything seriously
» challenged , debated and held to account, as people are possibly
» intimidated by inhouse cheersquads pushing a certain line.
»
» I believe the old professor was quite accurate.
»
» I urge readers to question , enquire and carefully dissect all information
» and photos shown on the net.
»
» Otherwise, it could cost you your head.
»
» Dr Ray Woods

exactly the reason I pooh pooh all the hair multiplication cheerleaders who push ICX as if they were a cult

to me its totally unproven, and they have every reason to puff up their results

» Dr. Woods, patient results speak louder than words. If you take a look at
» the hairsite chart, Dr. A now has more bht results than you do.

Where is the chart? What about the “hair cycles” debate? Can someone fill me in?

» Yes I can. Dr Jones states that he offers BHT at a greatly reduced price
» and only because in his opinion BHT is so unpredictable that he cannot
» conscientiously offer BHT as the same as scalp. Still having said that,
» Dr. Jones offers BHT only for repair cases. Hopefully, if we bitch about
» it enough, folks in the United States will follow Dr. Jones, Dr. A’s and
» Dr. U’s low prices. And when other clinics (the ones that have less
» success with BHT) drops their prices, then maybe BHT all around will drop.

I wouldnt go to Dr. Jones for any sort of transplant.

Firstly, I said that ANGLE OF OBSERVATION is critical. So is density if implantation, position of placement, and the type of hair used.

Second, the whole hair cycle thing is an interesting academic irrelevent sideshow, distracting from the REAL REASONS why body hair doesn’t grow…and often those reasons are the fault of the clinic.

Third, dense packing is a specialist microsurgical procedure. Take your chances where patients are packed like sardines in a hair mill, if you wish

finally, I am watching the 2nd Test India vs Australia at the Sydney Cricket ground. Great stuff, so please no one bother me for now…is nothing sacred??

Dr Ray Woods

» finally, I am watching the 2nd Test India vs Australia at the Sydney
» Cricket ground. Great stuff, so please no one bother me for now…is
» nothing sacred??
»
» Dr Ray Woods

Personally I enjoy the Indian HT surgeon league Vs the Australian HT league 15 round bare knuckle fights (no holds bared). It’s much more dynamic!:stuck_out_tongue:

» Firstly, I said that ANGLE OF OBSERVATION is critical. So is density if
» implantation, position of placement, and the type of hair used.
»
» Second, the whole hair cycle thing is an interesting academic irrelevent
» sideshow, distracting from the REAL REASONS why body hair doesn’t
» grow…and often those reasons are the fault of the clinic.
»
» Third, dense packing is a specialist microsurgical procedure. Take your
» chances where patients are packed like sardines in a hair mill, if you
» wish
»
» finally, I am watching the 2nd Test India vs Australia at the Sydney
» Cricket ground. Great stuff, so please no one bother me for now…is
» nothing sacred??
»
» Dr Ray Woods

Dr. Woods I am a scale I probably becoming scale II soon. Will you use body hair only for your patients? I really really really really do not want to touch my scalp. I like it the way it is as I may shave it all one day. If I lost all my body hair I couldn’t care less. So my question is will you use body hair only for me to fill in the receding hairline and temples?

Thanks in advance.