Hair product ( Hairstemcell Transplantation® ) works!

» It seems nobody can make a solid claim whether or not his procedure works
» and to what extent so why fight like this? We are all struggling with the
» same issue, hair loss, so lets be productive and make this more of a mature
» debate. Rather than pointing fingers at each other, lets work off what
» each other say and be productive.
»
» Gho could be off but he could also really be onto something big here. I’m
» excited about the idea personally, I’m 23 and have severe diffuse thinning
» in a MPB pattern. I’ve been on propecia for a while and I’m hoping it lets
» me keep what I have, which by the way is not cosmetically acceptable for me
» personally so the concept of a doctor claiming we could potentially have
» unlimited donor is very exciting.

We all get excited when there is a chance that we could be cured. But this doctor has exploited out excitement for sooooo long, that this is too much.

»
» Spanish Dude - Could it be possible that Gho does know what he’s doing and
» although for a long time has been claiming it, now has refined his method
» and is successful? PS - Que viva la furia roja.

He has always claimed to be successful in the last 10 years. Now he says that the former method (FM) is crap, but this is not what he said before.

He is moving only around 800 FUs per year, and harvesting diffusely across all the donor area, so that its impossible for a normal user to notice the loss of density. Why doesn’t he harvest more than 800 FU’s? Why doesn’t he harvest them in a contiguous area? Why doesn’t he harvest all the viable FU’s in the donor area? The answer is simple: because the patient will notice the loss of density.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!!
At least ICX faced clinical trials, and we finally knew the truth.
ARI is also doing clinical trials, and we will know the truth.
But in Gho’s case, there won’t be any clinical trial, there won’t be an independent scrutiny, and Gho will be able to keep the farce indefinitely, as he has done in the last 10 years.

»
» Iron Man - Could Gho’s method not be ready for primetime? Could it be
» that the lack of evidence is due to the fact he hasn’t proven results he
» wants to show to the public?
»
» Just as a final thought, both of you are incredibly knowledgeable and I’m
» thankful that both of you post on this forum.

Gäääääääähnnnnn bla bla bla gäääääähnnnnnn rant rant rant.

All i can say is, we will stay bald end of story so get used to it SPanish Dude and enjoy the rest of your short life. Thats the truth

» » It seems nobody can make a solid claim whether or not his procedure
» works
» » and to what extent so why fight like this? We are all struggling with
» the
» » same issue, hair loss, so lets be productive and make this more of a
» mature
» » debate. Rather than pointing fingers at each other, lets work off what
» » each other say and be productive.
» »
» » Gho could be off but he could also really be onto something big here.
» I’m
» » excited about the idea personally, I’m 23 and have severe diffuse
» thinning
» » in a MPB pattern. I’ve been on propecia for a while and I’m hoping it
» lets
» » me keep what I have, which by the way is not cosmetically acceptable for
» me
» » personally so the concept of a doctor claiming we could potentially
» have
» » unlimited donor is very exciting.
»
» We all get excited when there is a chance that we could be cured. But this
» doctor has exploited out excitement for sooooo long, that this is too
» much.
»
» »
» » Spanish Dude - Could it be possible that Gho does know what he’s doing
» and
» » although for a long time has been claiming it, now has refined his
» method
» » and is successful? PS - Que viva la furia roja.
»
» He has always claimed to be successful in the last 10 years. Now he says
» that the former method (FM) is crap, but this is not what he said before.
»
» He is moving only around 800 FUs per year, and harvesting diffusely across
» all the donor area, so that its impossible for a normal user to notice the
» loss of density. Why doesn’t he harvest more than 800 FU’s? Why doesn’t he
» harvest them in a contiguous area? Why doesn’t he harvest all the viable
» FU’s in the donor area? The answer is simple: because the patient will
» notice the loss of density.
»
» Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!!
» At least ICX faced clinical trials, and we finally knew the truth.
» ARI is also doing clinical trials, and we will know the truth.
» But in Gho’s case, there won’t be any clinical trial, there won’t be an
» independent scrutiny, and Gho will be able to keep the farce indefinitely,
» as he has done in the last 10 years.
»
» »
» » Iron Man - Could Gho’s method not be ready for primetime? Could it be
» » that the lack of evidence is due to the fact he hasn’t proven results
» he
» » wants to show to the public?
» »
» » Just as a final thought, both of you are incredibly knowledgeable and
» I’m
» » thankful that both of you post on this forum.

Spanish Dude, on his website, in the rates section, he lists prices for up to >1600 FU’s… So where is this 800 FUs a year claim coming from?

» Spanish Dude, on his website, in the rates section, he lists prices for up
» to >1600 FU’s… So where is this 800 FUs a year claim coming from?

It is the typical transplant by Gho. In theory, he can do 1600 FUs, but this happens rarely. Most often its around 800 FUs, as I have observed in the forums (fe. the haarweb forum).

But even if the limit was 1600 FUs, I wonder why is that? there are much more viable FU’s in the donor area than 1600, so why Gho is so restrictive? If 100% of the donor is suppossed to regenerate (as Gho claims) then why not harvesting all of the available “viable” FUs? This could require several days, but not a big deal.

Then ask GHO directly. Why you asking us, if you are never satisfied with our answers» » Spanish Dude, on his website, in the rates section, he lists prices for
» up
» » to >1600 FU’s… So where is this 800 FUs a year claim coming from?
»
» It is the typical transplant by Gho. In theory, he can do 1600 FUs, but
» this happens rarely. Most often its around 800 FUs, as I have observed in
» the forums (fe. the haarweb forum).
»
» But even if the limit was 1600 FUs, I wonder why is that? there are much
» more viable FU’s in the donor area than 1600, so why Gho is so restrictive?
» If 100% of the donor is suppossed to regenerate (as Gho claims) then why
» not harvesting all of the available “viable” FUs? This could require
» several days, but not a big deal.

» It is the typical transplant by Gho. In theory, he can do [… crap crap crap = nothing interesting to quote]

Spanish Dude’s typical theories - right?

» » It is the typical transplant by Gho. In theory, he can do
» [… crap crap crap = nothing interesting to quote]
»
» Spanish Dude’s typical theories - right?

The standard for these sort of trials is a temporary tattoo (or tattoed dots) marking out a 1cm2 area, then a detailed hair count before removal and another after supposed regrowth.

That Gho has not done this but is instead appearing on far less critical daytime TV shows makes me smell a rat.

Not to say he doesn’t have anything. As Iron Man says, there is ample proof that dissecting follicles can lead to doubling of viable grafts. The problem up till now is that the resulting follicles produce thinner hair so there is no real benefit. If a new culturing medium or matrix or whatever can get around this then he may well have something.

But what I really want to see is:

  1. Methodical, standardised haircounts of the donor area.

  2. Other FUE doctors experimenting with this approach. The approach has been outlined in his Dermatology paper, so it should be copiable by any surgeon with skill.

Until either one (or preferably both) of these happen, Gho is leading everyone on as far as I’m concerned.

» » » It is the typical transplant by Gho. In theory, he can
» do
» » [… crap crap crap = nothing interesting to quote]
» »
» » Spanish Dude’s typical theories - right?
»
»
»

impressive: this is how you think of yourself Spanishdude?

» But what I really want to see is:
»
» 1) Methodical, standardised haircounts of the donor area.
»
» 2) Other FUE doctors experimenting with this approach. The approach has
» been outlined in his Dermatology paper, so it should be copiable by any
» surgeon with skill.
»
» Until either one (or preferably both) of these happen, Gho is leading
» everyone on as far as I’m concerned.

acording to the link below by Ray woods, he tried this in 2003. I am sceptical about his comments though!

http://www.hairsite2.com/library2/article281.htm

See the problem with alot of these posters comments is they were not on the internet back then on this site or some others. These concepts were talked about back then. Be as skeptical all you want. This was brought up at both Woods and Gho seminars which I attended. While people can stay on here day after day and debate the same thing over and over again if Gho had something that was working now consistent he would come back over and bring some patients to a live seminar many ht docs would attend the public would see it live and get major media attention. I don’t know about the rest of you but just like when Fue was first introduced I wanted to meet former patients speak to the doctor in person and get as much information as possible.

» » » » It is the typical transplant by Gho. In theory, he can
» » do
» » » [… crap crap crap = nothing interesting to quote]
» » »
» » » Spanish Dude’s typical theories - right?
» »
» »
» »
»
» impressive: this is how you think of yourself Spanishdude?

No, but the picture is funny :slight_smile:

» The standard for these sort of trials is a temporary tattoo (or tattoed
» dots) marking out a 1cm2 area, then a detailed hair count before removal
» and another after supposed regrowth.

Gho did this in the JDT article. But this study was only supervised by Gho himself, not independent parties. So he could easily have faked the results.

»
» That Gho has not done this but is instead appearing on far less critical
» daytime TV shows makes me smell a rat.
»
» Not to say he doesn’t have anything. As Iron Man says, there is ample
» proof that dissecting follicles can lead to doubling of viable grafts. The
» problem up till now is that the resulting follicles produce thinner hair so
» there is no real benefit. If a new culturing medium or matrix or whatever
» can get around this then he may well have something.
»
» But what I really want to see is:
»
» 1) Methodical, standardised haircounts of the donor area.
»
» 2) Other FUE doctors experimenting with this approach. The approach has
» been outlined in his Dermatology paper, so it should be copiable by any
» surgeon with skill.

No, its not easily copiable, because when Gho specifies the growth medium, he only tell the ingredients, but not the relative amounts of these, nor the procedure to mix them (the order, etc).

Also, consider the possibility that some unscrupulous doctors could take advantage of the situation, and claim that they successfuly implemented the technique, in order to gain attention. If they present the same crappy proof that Gho has presented so far, we would have no progress. Even worse, we would have a group of charlatans supporting each other (same as happened with the Acell farce).

» Even worse,
» we would have a group of charlatans supporting each other (same as happened
» with the Acell farce).

“ACell” itself, has NEVER been “a farce”. Just idiots like you - and THIS is the truth - made “a farce” out of “ACell” on hair loss boards. Other guys noticed the same:

“Yes there’s a lot of idiotic hype on the web about this technology, and I don’t want to be associated with it …”

http://singularityhub.com/2010/05/15/miracle-powder-regrows-fingertips-well-sorta-video/

Couldn’t agree more …

» acording to the link below by Ray woods, he tried this in 2003. I am
» sceptical about his comments though!
»
» http://www.hairsite2.com/library2/article281.htm

Let me look …

“On another note, there is much controversy about hair multiplication and cloning.
Despite breakthroughs with cloning mammals, reptiles, and talk of cloning humans, has anyone yet cloned or multiplied a follicle ?
With this in mind, we do not pretend for one second to have a better chance than anyone else, but we do intend to see what happens when follicles are longitudinally split.”
Dr Woods and Dr Campbell - Date 10/17/2003

And it happened – WHAT ?

Interesting. In 2003, it has been almost IMPOSSIBLE to get the needed chirurgical instruments, for such a IN VIVO “splitting longitudinally hair follicles” procedures. And as far as I know, NOT EVEN TODAY you can get such tiny (hollow triple-waved-tipped) needles (0.3 – 0.6 inner diameter) straight from the medical shelves:
http://www.mediquipsurgical.com/trtitippu.html

Dr. Gho, as mentioned in his new study (published online April 2010), they are using their own developed needles:

(microscopically close-up)

But to get such tiny hollow needles, I think it isn’t such a big deal, if you really need/want them. The REAL “big deal” is HOW TO carefully extract hair follicles (units) PARTS (tissue with “hair-stem-cells”) with such tiny hollow needles in such a way (and here comes the “trick” along), so that the tiny “needle containing follicle part” (IN VIVO vertically “splitted” unit-grafts) as well as the partially left behind follicular unit tissue PARTS in your donor area, is leaving sufficient follicle unit tissue behind (including sufficient of ALL necessary “hair-stem-cells” too) to let regenerate the hair follicle (units) again in your donor area – even it is, of course, actually “damaged” (traumatized)!

REASON #1:

“The hair follicle demonstrates the unusual ability to completely REGENERATE itself.” (Stenn and Paus. Phys. Rev., 81(1), 449 - 2001)
http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/81/1/449

REASON #2 – The real reason WHY they have such an unusual ability to REGENERATE:

“There are different stem cell pools [longitudinally] located in the [whole] hair follicle.”
(Gho, Braun, Tilli, Neumann, Ramaekers, Br J Dermatol.; 150:860–868. – 2004)
http://www.hasci.com/uploads/downloads/BJD5682.17may04.pdf

“Mother nature’s RESULT”
Donor area ~1 week later after such a tiny “HairStemCell Extraction” procedure:

“Longer hair shafts and shorter hair shafts after ~1 week …”

The longer hairs are the re-grown SHAVED hair shafts (short before the extraction procedure) and the shorter hair shafts (blue circles) are just the partial extracted, but already REGENERATED follicular units including the already REGENERATED hair shafts – hair shafts with the same diameter as before the extraction procedure!

All in all, this is just a completely normal result of “mother nature’s biology”.
In short, it is the REAL natural “donor preservation” as a result of “its unusual ability to completely REGENERATE itself.” Regenerated hair follicles AS WELL AS regenerated skin tissue! That’s all.

Actually, this biologically behaviour is just as natural as having sex or being stupid like Spanish Dude (…forget the SD part, because in this case it is NOT normal and not the mother nature’s rule). And finally besides this fact, you can harvest those regenerated hair follicle units over and over again (NOT just “in theory” only!), so that you are finally be able to get as much hair as you want or need them, to fully cover up your bald scalp - at least the possibility is there. And in fact, has always been there.
But it seems WITHOUT such studies as mentioned them above, NOBODY has been aware of “mother nature’s unusual abilities”.

Back to the Woods/Campbell article (2003):
They knew about “mother nature’s dirty secrets” in 2003? Yes/No - it seems not really:

Most physicians out there, even worse most HT doctors until TODAY, they always believe that “this complex mini ORGAN ‘hair follicle’ is an ORGAN like the heart, liver or kidney, and therefore you can only successfully TRANSPLANT such organs if they are entirely “intact”.

Right or wrong?

Basically – RIGHT. But regarding “hair follicles”, actually it is scientifically WRONG:

REASON #1:

“The hair follicle demonstrates the unusual ability to completely REGENERATE itself.” (Stenn and Paus. Phys. Rev., 81(1), 449 - 2001)
http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/81/1/449

REASON #2 – The real reason WHY they have such a unusual ability to REGENERATE:
“There are different stem cell pools located [with-]in the [whole] hair follicle.”
(Gho, Braun, Tilli, Neumann, Ramaekers, Br J Dermatol.; 150:860–868. – 2004)
http://www.hasci.com/uploads/downloads/BJD5682.17may04.pdf

Moreover, hair follicles aren’t that BIG as organs like kidneys or livers. That means, the more little/tiny something is (organs, injuries etc), the more there is the ability present for REGENERATION. Even the biggest douche bag knows that, if you push very deeply a tiny needle into your skin, will you see a scar tissue there after ~1 – 2 weeks? Normally, not even with help of a loupe!!

But if you push very deeply a big knife into your skin, oh well …

That means, humans have just a tiny degree of the ability of FULL REGENERATION like salamanders – sure, not that much, but we have some. And if there’re very tiny injuries, you will not even see any scar tissue under a microscope.

Back again to the Woods/Campbell article (2003):
So in which way they tried to “longitudinally splitting follicles” ?

Let me guess: They simply tried to cut the previously FUE-extracted and “intact” hair follicles IN VITRO (outside the body) into 2 pieces (horizontally like an apple). NO WAY!!

Actually, I’m not aware of such an attempt/study (“longitudinally/horizontally splitting follicles outside the body”), BUT whatever they tried, I’m ABSOLUTELY SURE that they used a normal SALINE solution for the storage of the transacted grafts, which just leads to apoptosis (programmed cell dead) of the transacted and traumatized hair follicles, which mostly results IN THIS CASE into DEATH of the (dissected) hair follicles. Even they would survive such a massacre, the result could be a thinner hair shaft diameter (thinner hairs).

To overcome these problems AND to reconstruct (“mimicking”) any lost tissue of something, YOU NEED 3 essential things, which leads in the very first step to the contrary of “apoptosis”:

  1. specific cells, keratinocytes, growth factors etc,
  2. a kind of artificial “mother nature’s tissue scaffolds” and
  3. bioactive molecules for an interaction between all these things;

… and every tissue engineer & “organ constructor“ (e.g. Dr. A. Atala) is aware of this.

So what?
Did the IN VIVO (inside the body) “splitted” HST hair follicles of Dr. Gho’s patient Bridget Maasland, just for instance, immediately die thereafter, resp. weeks, month, year thereafter? No? How about the diameter of her eyebrow hairs?

By the way:
Dr. Gho’s HST grafts EXTRACTION PART is based on – (modified) DENTAL MEDICINE TECHNIQUES & TOOLS. Guess WHY for yourself:
http://jlmeniusdds.com/services/root-canal-treatment.html

Currently, with such tools there’re up to 2000 HST grafts possible per day. And within 2 days, you can get up to 4000 HST grafts if you need them and so on.

And finally, let me quickly highlight Dr. Woods pt. 8. of his “Declaration of Patient Rights”:

  1. Donor Site Conservation and Protection
    Avoidance of follicular damage due to incorrect technique, inexperience and production line mentality

So WHICH technique fits far more in this “Patient Rights” picture?
Dr. Woods’ or Dr. Gho’s ?

Donor hair follicle preservation by partial follicular unit extraction. A method to optimize hair transplantation.”

So because of that, I have just redefined and declared NEW patient rights:

  1. No STRIP !

  2. No traditional FUE !

  3. No WOODS !

  4. Dr. Gho’s HST only! :slight_smile:

Ok Iron man cool. So you are in favor of Gho ok we get it. So when are you going and getting a procedure done so you can finally be satisfied with a technique to fix your hairloss problem and you won’t have to waste anymore time day after day creating new posts and arguing with spanish dude? Can’t wait to see the results . Good luck.

» Ok Iron man cool. So you are in favor of Gho ok we get it. So when are you
» going and getting a procedure done so you can finally be satisfied with a
» technique to fix your hairloss problem and you won’t have to waste anymore
» time day after day creating new posts and arguing with spanish dude? Can’t
» wait to see the results . Good luck.

Relax there was a user from here who wanted to see Gho next month so lets just wait for it :wink:

Imagine if years go by like this. Suppose we reach 2015 or 2020 and Dr. Gho is still claiming these abilities without backing them up at all.

Gho supporters, would that be enough to make you doubt him?

Well, take your thoughts out of the present tense for a second and see the bigger picture. Dr. Gho has been making these claims and failing to back them up for many years already.

This is a posting by the prohairclinic (bverotti) in a German hair loss board, December 2008:

Translation (German/English):

I’m going to try to explain this again.

When we extract the grafts, it sometimes happens, for example, that if we have a 3 hair graft, in fact, could extract just 2 hair roots. But what happened with the 3rd root, which doesn’t came out ? Did the damaged root die or is it simply regrown?

Therefore, we [Dr. DeReys, Prohairclinic] have in a test in a very small area purposefully transected ALL grafts (i.e. intentionally used the wrong extraction angle so that the grafts [follicles] are purposefully transected und so the follicles are extracted without their hair roots).

After a few months, we have reviewed the same area and found out that ALL the transected hair has grown back, that means, their roots weren’t damaged.

Although a transection is undesirable from our point of view (after all we want transplant hair as much as possible) it is certainly not the case, damaged hair roots are destroyed through transection.

This is our knowledge in our work with the FUE hair transplant.

Source/Origin: Haartransplantation Forum : Ärzte und Kliniken - VOR dem Eingriff » Thema donor - mottenfrass - FUE - video

Oh, really?
“It is certainly not the case, damaged hair roots are destroyed through transection” ???

On the other hand, bverotti (prohairclinic) claims, even during a hearing with a commission (!), “hair regrow in the donor area is impossible! – there isn’t any scientifically poof for that!” :surprised:

Now it’s up to you guys … to decide … whether “the hair transplant business is a very shady business” or not.

For myself, I’ve already redefined the “patient rights” …

» Oh, really?
» “It is certainly not the case, damaged hair roots are destroyed through
» transection” ???
»
» On the other hand, bverotti (prohairclinic) claims, even during a hearing
» with a commission (!), “hair regrow in the donor area is impossible! –
» there isn’t any scientifically poof for that!” :surprised:

By the way …