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DS labs new topical


#1

Hi all new topical just released DNC-L.
http://www.divineskin.com/default.asp
Q


#2

ON their info page, they are claiming that a component of olive oil is the strongest alpha five reductase inhibitor in the potion, seconded by saw palmetto extract, and therein was included a third one whom I dont recall off the top of my head.

I wish there were experiments that backed up olive oil components inhibiting alpha five reductase, or reducing human sebum secretion, or serum levels of DHT. If anyone can find any of these, I hope they will post them. I hope the topical is a good one, but Im so used to rather ineffective topicals, etc.


#3

» ON their info page, they are claiming that a component of olive oil is the
» strongest alpha five reductase inhibitor in the potion, seconded by saw
» palmetto extract, and therein was included a third one whom I dont recall
» off the top of my head.
»
»
» I wish there were experiments that backed up olive oil components
» inhibiting alpha five reductase, or reducing human sebum secretion, or
» serum levels of DHT. If anyone can find any of these, I hope they will
» post them. I hope the topical is a good one, but Im so used to rather
» ineffective topicals, etc.

Saw Palmetto is a very weak 5 AR inhibitor, but it works great on me, but it works better when you add other 5 AR inhibitors


#4

ive heard from guys here that saw palmetto does not have side effects like manboobs, however many sites claim SP does cause gynecomastia, very confusing because i wouldnt mind trying SP, there is a topical SHEN MIN formula which i heard good stuff about and it has sp, i might give it a try.


#5

» ive heard from guys here that saw palmetto does not have side effects like
» manboobs, however many sites claim SP does cause gynecomastia, very
» confusing because i wouldnt mind trying SP, there is a topical SHEN MIN
» formula which i heard good stuff about and it has sp, i might give it a
» try.

topical saw palmetto, might not be the same as internal
side effects with saw palmetto are extremely rare

if you are afraid of saw palmetto try pumpkin seed, green tea, beta sitosterol, pygeum or nettles root powder

all are 5 AR inhibitors


#6

green tea? 5 ar inhibitor? Didn’t know that. Are you sure Hanging?


#7

» green tea? 5 ar inhibitor? Didn’t know that. Are you sure Hanging?

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200606/000020060606A0142275.php

there are tons of other links saying the same thing


#8

» » green tea? 5 ar inhibitor? Didn’t know that. Are you sure Hanging?
»
» http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200606/000020060606A0142275.php
»
» there are tons of other links saying the same thing

since 5 AR inhibition has also been shown to prevent prostate cancer to some degree this corresponds perfectly with the news that GREEN TEA PREVENTS PROSTATE CANCER, which came out recently

so this news validates what I am saying


#9

SP is not an equivalent to Finasteride. Never mind the dosage/strength questions, it just doesn’t do all the same things in the same parts of the body.

SP is generally good for the prostate just like Fin, but it generally has fewer sides and it generally doesn’t work as well for hair as Fin at all.

I remember reading that SP isn’t as active in the skin as Finasteride. That would make some sense to me in terms of the differences that are commonly experienced between the two drugs.

Sexual side effects or not, Finasteride reigns supreme at targeting DHT#2 for hair gains without affecting anything else in the process.


#10

» SP is not an equivalent to Finasteride. Never mind the dosage/strength
» questions, it just doesn’t do all the same things in the same parts of the
» body.
»
» SP is generally good for the prostate just like Fin, but it generally has
» fewer sides and it generally doesn’t work as well for hair as Fin at all.
»
»
» I remember reading that SP isn’t as active in the skin as Finasteride.
» That would make some sense to me in terms of the differences that are
» commonly experienced between the two drugs.
»
»
»
» Sexual side effects or not, Finasteride reigns supreme at targeting DHT#2
» for hair gains without affecting anything else in the process.

we were talking about green tea I thought?

saw palmetto should not be compared to fin, in effectiveness, it is a weak 5 ARinhibitor

however i think when combined with other 5 ar inhibitors, it is very effective, such as pygeum, nettles, beta sis, etc
I have never recommended Saw palmetto by itself

also fin, or propecia has been shown to actually reduce blood hormone levels in men, which i believe causes the bad side effects

while Saw Palmetto has not


#11

How does green Tea compare with nettle root and fin in terms of 5ar inhibition?


#12

» How does green Tea compare with nettle root and fin in terms of 5ar
» inhibition?

I have no idea, I would think since it is powerful enough to prevent prostate cancer it ranks up there near the top


#13

Guys, come on… If drinking green tea had ANY measurable effect whatsoever on serum DHT, don’t you think we would have all heard about it by now? :slight_smile:

.


#14

» Guys, come on… If drinking green tea had ANY measurable effect whatsoever
» on serum DHT, don’t you think we would have all heard about it by now? :slight_smile:
»
»
» .

After a year’s oral administration of green tea catechins (GTCs), only one man in a group of 32 at high risk for prostate cancer developed the disease, compared to nine out of 30 in a control, according to a team of Italian researchers from the University of Parma and University of Modena and Reggio Emilia led by Saverio Bettuzzi, Ph.D.

Their results were reported here today at the 96th Annual Meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research.

“Numerous earlier studies, including ours, have demonstrated that green tea catechins, or pure EGCG (a major component of GTCs), inhibited cancer cell growth in laboratory models,” Bettuzzi explained. “We wanted to conduct a clinical trial to find out whether catechins could prevent cancer in men. The answer clearly is yes.”

Earlier research demonstrated primarily that green tea catechins were safe for use in humans. Bettuzzi and his colleagues had found that EGCG targets prostate cancer cells specifically for death, without damaging the benign controls. They identified Clusterin, the most important gene involved in apoptosis, or programmed cell death in the prostate, as a possible mediator of catechins action. “EGCG induced death in cancer cells, not normal cells, inducing Clusterin expression” said Bettuzzi.

To gauge susceptibility for prostate cancer among their research subjects, the team of Italian scientists recruited men with high-grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia - premalignant lesions that presage invasive prostate cancer within one year in nearly a third of cases and for which no treatment was given.

Eligible men were between 45 and 75 years of age. Vegetarians and men consuming green tea or derived products, or those taking anti-oxidants or following anti-androgenic therapy were excluded.

Of the 62 volunteers, 32 received three tablets per day of 200 mg each GTCs; the remainder were given a placebo. Follow-up biopsies were administered after six months and again at one year. Only one case of prostate cancer was diagnosed among those receiving 600 mg daily of GTCs, while nine cases were found in the untreated group. The 30 percent incidence rate among controls is consistent with previous findings, as was the absence of significant side effects or adverse reactions.

The interest in green tea catechins and other polyphenols - antioxidants found in many plants that give some flowers, fruits and vegetables their coloring - derives from traditional Chinese medicine, and the observation of lower cancer rates among Asian populations.

Bettuzzi observed that the Mediterranean diet is rich in vegetables, and lower rates of prostate cancer are found in that region, as well.

The 600 mg-per-day dosage of caffeine-free, total catechins (50 percent of which is EGCG) given to participants in the Italian study is one or two times the amount of green tea consumed daily in China, where ten to 20 cups a day is normal.

“We still don’t know enough about the biological processes leading to prostate cancer,” Bettuzzi noted. “The only thing we know for sure is that prostate cancer is diffuse, related to age and more prevalent in the West. Thus, prevention could be the best way to fight it. Although our follow-up will continue for up to five years, a larger, confirmatory study is needed.”

Even so, Bettuzzi hints at the exciting prospect of using green tea catechins as a prophylactic against prostate cancer in men believed to be at higher risk, such as the elderly, African-Americans, and those with a family history of prostate cancer.

Founded in 1907, the American Association for Cancer Research is a professional society of more than 24,000 laboratory, translational, and clinical scientists engaged in all areas of cancer research in the United States and in more than 60 other countries. AACR’s mission is to accelerate the prevention and cure of cancer through research, education, communication, and advocacy. Its principal activities include the publication of five major peer-reviewed scientific journals: Cancer Research; Clinical Cancer Research; Molecular Cancer Therapeutics; Molecular Cancer Research; and Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention. AACR’s Annual Meetings attract more than 15,000 participants who share new and significant discoveries in the cancer field. Specialty meetings, held throughout the year, focus on the latest developments in all areas of cancer research.


#15

What does that Italian prostate cancer study have to do with what we’ve been talking about? Drinking green tea (or taking green tea derivatives) may well help fight prostate cancer, but it has no significant effect at inhibiting 5a-reductase and lowering the production of DHT.

.


#16

» What does that Italian prostate cancer study have to do with what we’ve
» been talking about? Drinking green tea (or taking green tea derivatives)
» may well help fight prostate cancer, but it has no significant effect at
» inhibiting 5a-reductase and lowering the production of DHT.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/2/516

Therein that study you get this:
Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum testosterone and DHT concentrations.

Mice treated with black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% LOWER DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5-reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT. Green tea tended to increase serum testosterone and DHT levels by 73.8% (P = 0.14) and 194% (P = 0.076), respectively. The combination of SPC and green tea reduced serum levels of DHT (P < 0.05).

Does anyone else think that its intersting that when mice were given BREWED HOMEMADE black tea, that their serum DHT levels were LOWERED BY 72%, which is slightly more than what finas does in human beings???

»
» .
The authors of the study had this interesting paragraph at in the “Discussion” section of the paper:

“Androgen is a prerequisite for the development of benign prostatic hyperplasia and prostate cancer. In the prostate, testosterone is rapidly and irreversibly converted to a more biologically active metabolite, DHT, by catalysis of 5-reductase. EGCG has been shown to inhibit the growth of prostate cancer cells in vitro (36 ) and in vivo (37 ) through mechanisms that might involve inhibition of type I 5-reductase (37 ). In this study, black tea reduced serum levels of DHT (Fig. 2 D), suggesting that black tea may have bioactive components that inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT, presumably via inhibition of 5-reductase in this SCID-LNCaP animal model. It is unclear whether black tea theaflavins, EGCG and/or other components are responsible for this function in vivo.”

Anyone want to explain why mice, a little animal that like humans has a type one and type two alpha five reductase enzyme, and men might be DIFFERENT in their response to these catechins, theraburgins, flavinoids.

Hint: Ive read an article that catalogued the amount of catechins, flavinoids, theraburgins in home-BREWED teas vs. ready made teas from supermarkets. You dont get hardly any catechins or flavinoids in instant teas. You have to buy the packets and brew yourself over the stove (this experiment boiled for ten minutes) to get “the good stuff”. /color]


#17

??? Benji
This study seems to imply that GREEN tea (unlike black tea) increases BOTH T and DHT… I don 't understand.


#18

ì wonder what level of reliability may be granted to these studies. How could black tea and green tea have contrary effects…? The molecules must be about the same and the only diference is pigment…
Weird.


#19

» ì wonder what level of reliability may be granted to these studies. How
» could black tea and green tea have contrary effects…? The molecules must
» be about the same and the only diference is pigment…
» Weird.

There are too many contradictory articles on the internet citing different studies. One site claims green tea lowers DHT, while another one will state it raises levels of DHT. I started losing hair when i was 17 years old, ive been an avid tea drinker, and many years later thank God i am not bald. Could the tea have played a role in retarding my hair loss? I dont know i might have.


#20

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/Other/IFT2003_TeaFlav.pdf

If you look at that, you will see brewed green tea has alot more catechins than black tea.

BREWED Black tea has alot more flavonoids and theaburgins than green tea.

Instant or ready-made teas dont have squat nutritionally. Youve got to make it yourself to get the benefits.

Green tea major components
Here is a breakdown for those who dont like reading charts:
The most abundant components of green tea are polyphenols, such as gallic acid and catechin, and their derivatives theogallin, gallocatechin, epiatechin, and epigallo catechin. The fresh leaves contain 3%–4% caffeine (depending upon development), theobromine (0.15%–0.2%), theophylline (0.02%–0.04%), and other methylxanthines.

Black tea, which is fermented tea:
1 With fermentation, catechins partially change into oligomeric quinones, including theaflavine, theaflavine acid and thearubigene, or to the non-water-soluble flavonoids such as quercetin, kaempferol and myrecetin.1,4,5 Green tea contains B-vitamins and ascorbic acid, which are destroyed in the process of making black tea. The essential oil contains more than 300 components including aldehydes, phenylethyl alcohols, phenols, hexenal, hexenol, linalool, dihydroactinidiolide and p-vinylphenol.5

My note: The catehcins obviously have different effects biologically than the theaflavins, flavins, and theraburgnins. ECGC is the catechin that has an effect on androgen receptors and TYPE 1 alpha five reductase.