Dr. Kemp: "baldness will be a choice" - 2.5 years to go

» cynics come from years and years of “just around the corner” bs that is
» posted in the newspapers by hair multiplication and all sorts of other
» bs…
» when they find the cure, THEN GET IT APPROVED THEN TELL US ABOUT IT
»
» all this …just around the corner crap is for the birds
»

Look, ICX’ scientist are saying 2010 at the earliest (best-case scenerio). If you don’t want to hear about it until then, why on earth are you in this forum that has the sole purpose of discussing HM? It makes no sense to me. IN case you haven’t noticed lately, HT is not a cure for baldness. It is a very barbaric bandaid.

It does not require any special talent to criticize others does it? We can all do it. So exactly what have your posts gained us that we don’t already have?

» count how many posts i have made on the HM forum,?

Serioulsy dude, you are one of the most scientifically ignorant people I have come across in a long time. You should either read up on the science or stay over in your HT forum.

You know, it might not be a bad idea to take your own advice about getting counseling in the meantime. Or at least some anger management classes :wink:

» It does not require any special talent to criticize others does it? We can
» all do it. So exactly what have your posts gained us that we don’t already
» have?

if HM is a pipe dream, which In my opinion it is, exactly what have all the cheerleader posts done for us?

» » count how many posts i have made on the HM forum,?
»
» Serioulsy dude, you are one of the most scientifically ignorant people I
» have come across in a long time. You should either read up on the science
» or stay over in your HT forum.
»
» You know, it might not be a bad idea to take your own advice about getting
» counseling in the meantime. Or at least some anger management classes :wink:

So you are saying that the HM lobby has not completely misled us and given false dates.? open your eyes, stop being so delusional and eager to swallow anything they hand out

Your regimine shows you have elected to take the natural route, and have incorporated some natural anti-androgens and receptor blockers, along with a pill with alot of the nutrition that is proven to aide hair follicles.

SO I know you are not a nutjob.

ICX and Aderans are simply trying to take dermal papilla cells from your best hair (the wreath), multiply them in a petri dish, and re-inject them into the scalp so they can form brand new-donor-area quality follicles.

However Hangin’, they have found out to do this with consistency, they need to recreate the environment in the scalp you had when you were a fetus. They need some mix of dermal papilla cells and some stem cells also. They have been testing mixtures of these cells for the past few years trying to figure out why some trial subjects have good success while others dont.

They are simply trying to expand on what Dr. Coen Gho started years ago. He cut dermal papillas in half and placed one half in the back of the head, and one in front. In some cases, 2 hairs were made out of one. But he had major problems with consistency. It just would not happen all of the time. In fact, many times it didn’t happen at all, and neither grew. We are finding out the other cells that need to be present to give the correct signalling environment necessary for the dermal papilla cells to “do their thing”. Its complicated cellular science. Even the injection depth and densities (how many injects per square centimeter) are things that the scientists researching this are having to optimize.

I promise you however Hangin’, they are really trying their best to make this happen. There are alot of BALD scientists. Paul Kemp and Ken Washenik are two guys who want more hair on THEIR OWN HEADS. Dr. Stenn would also, because he has a great big-bald spot too.

It may be ten more years (but I think not), but these folks really do believe that they will make HM a reality, and have spent mega millions on it. The money they have spent is proof enough of their opinion of it.

DOnt forget, two Japanese companies, Shishedo and PhoenixBio are also working on this and have filed patents in the art also.

Hangin, YOU are a specialist in pipe dreams:

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mcg
Nettles 500mcg
Beta Sitosterol 125mcg


HM is a reality.

» Hangin, YOU are a specialist in pipe dreams:
»
» Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
» Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day
»
» DHT blockers (daily intake)
» Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
» Pygeum 500mcg
» Nettles 500mcg
» Beta Sitosterol 125mcg
»
» —
»

HM is a reality.?? talk about dreaming, you guys really live in a fantasy world if you believe that

when or if it comes to fruition then and only then come and talk to me, otherwise its just blowing hot air for a bunch of desperate guys who will cling to any hope…and blindly accept date changes of 3 to 6 yrs later than the original prediction, without questioning it.

HM is a reality? really show me someone who can perform it on someone and get results?

as far as my regimen, you guys on the HM forum are about as good at saving your hair as those on the hair transplant forum…not too good…thats why your last hope is HM

» » Hangin, YOU are a specialist in pipe dreams:
» »
» » Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
» » Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day
» »
» » DHT blockers (daily intake)
» » Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
» » Pygeum 500mcg
» » Nettles 500mcg
» » Beta Sitosterol 125mcg
» »
» » —
» »
»
» HM is a reality.?? talk about dreaming, you guys really live in a fantasy
» world if you believe that
»
» when or if it comes to fruition then and only then come and talk to me,
» otherwise its just blowing hot air for a bunch of desperate guys who will
» cling to any hope…and blindly accept date changes of 3 to 6
» yrs later than the original prediction, without questioning it.
»
»
»
» HM is a reality? really show me someone who can perform it on someone and
» get results?
»
» as far as my regimen, you guys on the HM forum are about as good at saving
» your hair as those on the hair transplant forum…not too
» good…thats why your last hope is HM

Hangin, I just saw Heliboy’s transplant and 1000 of his hairs were from his pubic region which I was unaware of until now and he looks pretty good. What are your thoughts on a pubic transplant hangin. I believe you said you have a thinning crown like I do. Would you consider donating hairs from your pubic area and putting them on your crown. Jessica also had some good things to say about it. I might do it too in a year or so and I am interested to hear what you have to say about pubic transplants. Surely you can’t find something negative to say about this since your pubic region is hidden and nobody would care if you were bald in that region anyway.

» » » Hangin, YOU are a specialist in pipe dreams:
» » »
» » » Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
im not that impressed with hair trans in general, however i would love to have the crown back of course, if i did do a trans i would not use body hair i dont think my side and back hair is tremendously thick and healthy, almost like high school days, very unusual for a thinning hair balding person

the crown I have heard uses up A LOT of grafts so not sure if its wise to tap out thousands of grafts on the crown, since its less likely seen than the frontal hairline

most docs say worst comes to worst transplant the front and leave the crown alone, but my front looks fine, and has been that way for 8 yrs, the crown is gone

dont know what to tell you, we all have to make our own decisions,
im not the best person to ask about hair trans as u know

» » » Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day
» » »
» » » DHT blockers (daily intake)
» » » Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
» » » Pygeum 500mcg
» » » Nettles 500mcg
» » » Beta Sitosterol 125mcg
» » »
» » » —
» » »
» »
» » HM is a reality.?? talk about dreaming, you guys really live in a
» fantasy
» » world if you believe that
» »
» » when or if it comes to fruition then and only then come and talk to me,
» » otherwise its just blowing hot air for a bunch of desperate guys who
» will
» » cling to any hope…and blindly accept date changes of 3 to
» 6
» » yrs later than the original prediction, without questioning it.
» »
» »
» »
» » HM is a reality? really show me someone who can perform it on someone
» and
» » get results?
» »
» » as far as my regimen, you guys on the HM forum are about as good at
» saving
» » your hair as those on the hair transplant forum…not too
» » good…thats why your last hope is HM
»
» Hangin, I just saw Heliboy’s transplant and 1000 of his hairs were from
» his pubic region which I was unaware of until now and he looks pretty
» good. What are your thoughts on a pubic transplant hangin. I believe you
» said you have a thinning crown like I do. Would you consider donating
» hairs from your pubic area and putting them on your crown. Jessica also
» had some good things to say about it. I might do it too in a year or so
» and I am interested to hear what you have to say about pubic transplants.
» Surely you can’t find something negative to say about this since your
» pubic region is hidden and nobody would care if you were bald in that
» region anyway.

i do not doubt that someday hair multiplication will work to some degree but
when that day will be is the question, I personally feel its at least 10 yrs away if not 15…call me a doubter

» Your regimine shows you have elected to take the natural route, and have
» incorporated some natural anti-androgens and receptor blockers, along with
» a pill with alot of the nutrition that is proven to aide hair follicles.
»
» SO I know you are not a nutjob.
»
» ICX and Aderans are simply trying to take dermal papilla cells from your
» best hair (the wreath), multiply them in a petri dish, and re-inject them
» into the scalp so they can form brand new-donor-area quality follicles.
»
» However Hangin’, they have found out to do this with consistency, they
» need to recreate the environment in the scalp you had when you were a
» fetus. They need some mix of dermal papilla cells and some stem cells
» also. They have been testing mixtures of these cells for the past few
» years trying to figure out why some trial subjects have good success while
» others dont.
»
»
» They are simply trying to expand on what Dr. Coen Gho started years ago.
» He cut dermal papillas in half and placed one half in the back of the
» head, and one in front. In some cases, 2 hairs were made out of one. But
» he had major problems with consistency. It just would not happen all of
» the time. In fact, many times it didn’t happen at all, and neither grew.
» We are finding out the other cells that need to be present to give the
» correct signalling environment necessary for the dermal papilla cells to
» “do their thing”. Its complicated cellular science. Even the injection
» depth and densities (how many injects per square centimeter) are things
» that the scientists researching this are having to optimize.
»
» I promise you however Hangin’, they are really trying their best to make
» this happen. There are alot of BALD scientists. Paul Kemp and Ken Washenik
» are two guys who want more hair on THEIR OWN HEADS. Dr. Stenn would also,
» because he has a great big-bald spot too.
»
» It may be ten more years (but I think not), but these folks really do
» believe that they will make HM a reality, and have spent mega millions on
» it. The money they have spent is proof enough of their opinion of it.
»
» DOnt forget, two Japanese companies, Shishedo and PhoenixBio are also
» working on this and have filed patents in the art also.

» Look, ICX’ scientist are saying 2010 at the earliest (best-case scenerio).
» If you don’t want to hear about it until then, why on earth are you in this
» forum that has the sole purpose of discussing HM? It makes no sense to me.
» IN case you haven’t noticed lately, HT is not a cure for baldness. It is a
» very barbaric bandaid.

That’s right, JB. Also, you are exactly right about 2010 being the earliest possible date of availability in the US. At the rate things are going, even 2010 might be too optimistic for approval in the US. Why? Because there is obviously a hold-up in FDA review of HM trials in this country. That alone will delay availability here until around 2010 or, most probably, a bit later.

(By the way, my guess is that this hold-up has nothing to do with legitimate findings of health risks, but is a purely bureaucratic event probably resulting from the actions of the anti-HM gang – that is, the well-organized American HT lobby. They are making a secret, last-ditch stand to thwart or delay HM. My prediction is that they will be partly successful – they will succeed in delaying its approval here in the US by about 2 years – but they will not be successful in stopping it, because their case is completely unfounded and rests solely on the economic threat HM poses to their businesses.)

However, I can easily see the fruits of ICX’s trials in the UK turning into some kind of limited availability in the United Kingdom, as well as a number of European countries, a good 2-3 years (or more) before it is approved in the US. Remember, Europe is not subject to the constraints of the FDA. As we know, trials were approved in England, and if everything goes well, it’s a safe bet that a few clinics there (and perhaps in Eastern Europe and elsewhere) will be taking paying patients within 2 years or so, under the aegis of ICX. And by “within 2 years”, I mean “inside of 2 years”.

You have to remember that whenever a new drug, medical procedure or therapy hits the market, despite cut-and-dry regulations, the new therapy is gradually phased in over a period of time. First, the wealthiest, best connected, or luckiest people (in terms of geography or whatever) have access to it. Then gradually, as public and government confidence increase, it spreads out through multiple access-points. But what you never see a situation where one day, the therapy is illegal and totally unavailable, and the next day, it becomes legal and everyone has access to it. You didn’t see that with Minoxidil. You didn’t see that with Finasteride or Dutasteride. You didn’t even see that back in the 50’s and 60’s with Dr. Orentreich and hair transplants.

But any fool can see things are moving much faster across the Atlantic than they are here, and, as nathan often tells us, “There’s a reason for everything”. (Is that nathan’s line?)

However, for the US, you are definitely right. We are now looking at at least a good 4-5 year-long wait in the United States. And all because of political maneuvering.

So, when people ask the question, “When will HM be available?” now, the first rejoinder should always be “Available where?”

“When” is a relative term.

» Personally I am not looking to the United States as having the first
» commercially released HM product on the market. I am thinking the launch
» will be something similar to their VAVELTA product that is scheduled to be
» launched in the second half of this year in the UK. This is because it
» doesn’t fall under the category of being a drug.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s the FDA in the USA or the MHRA in the UK - the product will have to be reviewed by a regulatory body, and that’s exactly the reason why I think it won’t be available in 2010. I’m not saying that HM will never become a reality; I’m just saying that 2010 is just over two years away, and it took them two years to analyse phase I, and they still need to complete phase II, analyse phase II, prepare phase III, conduct phase III, analyse phase III, submit everything to the regulatory bodies (be it the FDA in the USA or the MHRA in the UK), wait for them to review their findings and - finally - launch the product. That will take more time than two years, surely.

» Thats not true at all I don’t mind if you question my view point at all. I
» just would like to know why you think the way you do instead of just
» stating an opinion without giving any sort of reference at all.

That’s just not true. I gave you the references: In 2004 Dr. Ken Wasehnik said that the “three to four years away” figure was not a fantasy. You can read the interview here:

And as for Intercytex, I’m sure you’ll find their timeline somewhere on the internet. It took them two years to analyse phase I. That is a fact. And as I said before, I think it is unlikely that they’re gonna be able to go through the entire regulatory process in just over two years.

» open your eyes, stop being so delusional and eager to swallow
» anything they hand out

<<<<<Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mcg
Nettles 500mcg
Beta Sitosterol 125mcg>>>>

While your calling me delusional due to my beliefs about future baldness treatments, you might want to examine your own beliefs about what currently works :wink:

Or as a famous prophet once put it, “before you remove the speck from your neighbor’s eye, be sure and remove the plank from your own!”

» if HM is a pipe dream, which In my opinion it is, exactly what have all
» the cheerleader posts done for us?

If and when you can prove it is a pipe dream, I will justify your question with an answer. In the meantime, keep in mind that ICX’ phase I resulted in regrowth of about 65 hairs per 100 injections in 5 of 7 patients :slight_smile: And phase I was designed to test safety–not to grow hair! It takes no stretch of the imagination to see that ICX’ treatment has a billion times more potential than the following treatment:

<<<<<Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mcg
Nettles 500mcg
Beta Sitosterol 125mcg>>>>>

Say what?! You should be excited that companies are investing many millions of dollars toward a real cure so that the day will come when you can stop wasting your money on all those snake oils. Instead you are upset?

While spending some time writing software to aid in analyzing the results of cancer research, I noticed that many people had lost so much due to their illness, that the illness itself was kind of all they had left in the world. They thought about it 24/7 and pretty much had nothing else. It is easy to become attached to our own battles and dismiss everything else around us.

There is an old saying about a guy looking for a very small apparatus he dropped in the night. He is looking for it under a street lamp when a stranger approaches and says, “I’ll help you look for it. About where do you think you dropped it?” The man replies, “Over there across the street.” The stranger exclaims, “Then why are you looking for it over here?” The man says, “because it is dark over there and I can’t see. Over here, it is nice and light!”

From my perspective, the cure for all disease is not in the present, it is in the future. Thus, it is there that I go in pursuit of a cure.

» » when or if it comes to fruition then and only then come and
» » talk to me, otherwise its just blowing hot air for a bunch of » »desperate guys who will cling to any hope
» » Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
» » Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day
» »
» » DHT blockers (daily intake)
» » Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
» » Pygeum 500mcg
» » Nettles 500mcg
» » Beta Sitosterol 125mcg

The level of hippocrisy in your words is outstanding! You know, desperate people are reading that trashy list of snake-oil supplements? Do you know that Hippocrates recommended rubbing pigeon crap on your head to cure your baldness, and a lot of people were gullible enough to do it? A few thousand years has passed, and some people are still gullible enough to still be wasting time and money on snake oils. I guess some things never change.

The following photo is of a hair follicle grown about 10 years ago by Dr. Jahoda in his wife’s arm using his mesenchymal cells. The mesenchymal portion of the follicle has his DNA (the mesenchyme is where the DHT sensitivity issue occurs), and the epithelial portion has his wife’s DNA. So far, ICX can grow about 66 of these types of hairs per 100 injections. If that seems dismal, consider how many hairs you grow per 100 applications of that snake oil you promote to desperate bald guys who don’t know any better. And keep in mind that ICX’ injections take about 5 seconds each, and your snake oil treatments require an entire day. Can you truly not see which avenue has more promise?

Let’s see:

ICX Treatment: Requires about a day to administer 5,000 injections resulting in GAINING about 3250 hairs.

Hanging Snake Oil Treatment: Requires about 100 days to administer 100 sessions resulting in LOSING about 3250 hairs.

Well, you can stay excited about snake oil supplements if you want, but I’m moving on to something I find more intriguing.

pasting what crap on their heads? my regimen has no topicals, MORON, shows the ignorance you are posting from

» » » when or if it comes to fruition then and only then come and
» » » talk to me, otherwise its just blowing hot air for a bunch of »
» »desperate guys who will cling to any hope
» » » Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
» » » Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day
» » »
» » » DHT blockers (daily intake)
» » » Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
» » » Pygeum 500mcg
» » » Nettles 500mcg
» » » Beta Sitosterol 125mcg
»
» The level of hippocrisy in your words is outstanding! You know, desperate
» people are reading that trashy list of snake-oils and wasting their time
» slathering that crap on their heads? Do you know that Hippocrates
» recommended rubbing pigeon crap on your head to cure your baldness, and a
» lot of people were gullible enough to do it? A few thousand years has
» passed, and some people are still gullible enough to still be doing it.
» Some things never change. You go ahead and rub that crap on your head for
» the next 3 or 4 years, and I’ll continue to research legitimate medical
» avenues.
»
» The following photo is of a hair follicle grown about 10 years ago by Dr.
» Jahoda in his wife’s arm using his mesenchymal cells. The mesenchymal
» portion of the follicle has his DNA (the mesenchyme is where the DHT
» sensitivity issue occurs), and the epithelial portion has his wife’s DNA.
» So far, ICX can grow about 66 of these types of hairs per 100 injections.
» If that seems dismal, consider how many hairs you grow per 100
» applications of that snake oil you promote to desperate bald guys who
» don’t know any better. And keep in mind that ICX’ injections take about 5
» seconds each, and your snake oil treatments require an entire day. Can you
» truly not see which avenue has more promise?
»
» Let’s see:
»
» ICX Treatment: Requires about a day to administer 5,000 injections
» resulting in GAINING about 3250 hairs.
»
» Hanging Snake Oil Treatment: Requires about 100 days to administer 100
» rubs resulting in LOSING about 3250 hairs.
»
» Well, you can stay excited about snake oil rubs if you want, but I’m
» moving on to something I find more intriguing. I’m glad you are enthused
» about your head slathering though. But let’s face it, sooner or later you
» going to have to face reality.
»
»

» » if HM is a pipe dream, which In my opinion it is, exactly what have all
» » the cheerleader posts done for us?
»
» If and when you can prove it is a pipe dream, I will justify your question
» with an answer. In the meantime, keep in mind that ICX’ phase I resulted in
» regrowth of about 65 hairs per 100 injections in 5 of 7 patients :slight_smile: And
» phase I was designed to test safety–not to grow hair! It takes no stretch
» of the imagination to see that ICX’ treatment has a billion times more
» potential than the following treatment:
»
» <<<<<Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
» Kal Amino Max …Chelated Multi Mineral…2/day
»
» DHT blockers (daily intake)
» Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
» Pygeum 500mcg
» Nettles 500mcg
» Beta Sitosterol 125mcg>>>>>
»
» Say what?! You should be excited that companies are investing many
» millions of dollars toward a real cure so that the day will come when you
» can stop wasting your money on all those snake oils. Instead you are
» upset?
»
» While spending some time writing software to aid in analyzing the results
» of cancer research, I noticed that many people had lost so much due to
» their illness, that the illness itself was kind of all they had left in
» the world. They thought about it 24/7 and pretty much had nothing else. It
» is easy to become attached to our own battles and dismiss everything else
» around us.
»
» There is an old saying about a guy looking for a very small apparatus he
» dropped in the night. He is looking for it under a street lamp when a
» stranger approaches and says, “I’ll help you look for it. About where do
» you think you dropped it?” The man replies, “Over there across the
» street.” The stranger exclaims, “Then why are you looking for it over
» here?” The man says, “because it is dark over there and I can’t see. Over
» here, it is nice and light!”

When or if the procedure works, great

otherwise stop with all this …right around the corner crap

when they have it approved and its available for sale great
otherwise how much good does it do anyone? Can I go buy it? nope
oh its coming soon soon soon, ok fine when? when its available call me

otherwise stop with all the …right around the corner crap
»
» From my perspective, the cure for all disease is not in the present, it is
» in the future. Thus, it is there that I go in pursuit of a cure.

» pasting what crap on their heads? my regimen has no topicals, MORON, shows
» the ignorance you are posting from

Well, it’s nice you reply while I’m editing my post. It shows you have no life what-so-ever and that you live on this forum. BTW, yes, I didn’t pay much attention to your stupid list of snake oil supplements. I don’t waste my time reading garbage, so it could say whatever and it just looks like another stupid list of BS that don’t work. Now on to the double-blind placebo trials that prove those stupid supplements actually cure baldness. LOL! Now who is the moron on dunce cap? Get a brain and stop wasting your time and money on things that don’t work!

If you are such a hot-shot know-it-all, why don’t you post a picture of your head so that we can all get a laugh over how much hair you are losing while eating that crap. :smiley:

<<<<When or if the procedure works, great>>>

Uh, have you not heard…ICX is in phase II of human studies. Phase I resulted in a commercially viable success rate!

<<<otherwise stop with all this …right around the corner crap>>>>

You can read, right?

<<<<<when they have it approved and its available for sale great
otherwise how much good does it do anyone?>>>>

IMO it does a lot more good to know that a real treatment is right around the corner than it does to pop vitamin pills and pretend they actually do some good.

<<<<Can I go buy it? >>>>>

Well, you can buy vitamins till your blue in the face, but seriously, how much good are they actually doing you. If they provide some sort of psychological crutch for you, then fine, perhaps they are worth it. But just understand that you are bald and getting balder by the day–despite your OCD pill-popping behavior. Look, when HM is released and you finally realize how much time, money, hope, and desperation you wasted on those placebo pills, just remember all the money and effort you could have saved if you would have listened to me in the first place. See, HM is already doing some people some good after-all. I’m saving lots of money that you are wasting. :smiley: