Dr. Hasson - hairline, frontal 1/2, crown - 1.5 years

»
» Your post is rather confusing. It’s a lot of grafts but it’s still thin?
» If he loses to a NW6 he’s screwed because so many grafts were already
» used? If so, this doesn’t fly because as I said he has well over 4000
» grafts left so at worst the back would look thin. If he loses in the
» middle section then it could still be filled with a decreasing density
» into the crown. If he progresses, he’s still good as it’s perfectly
» natural to have a strong front and a thinner back. This is a standard
» approach by most all clinics as it mimics a natural pattern.
»
» If you say he’s screwed because it’s too thick up front then how can this
» be if you just said he still looks thin? See the contradiction? Anyhow, I
» don’t see where you think it’s still thin unless you like brick walls for
» hairlines. I mean, how much more dense do you want that is more than 70
» per cm2?
»

Well i think i was pretty clear but i will try to make it simpler…It looks thin compared to the grafts implanted, 5500 grafts usually are used over larger areas and they cover up nicely…since they were used in such a small area then by definition it should be denser,unless not all grafts grew.I can see through his hairline and its his native hair that are dense that stop me from seeing deeper.

I am in noway in favor of a brick hairline but i feel for the hairloss patern that i see in the before pictures 2 many grafts were used if you told me that its a 3000 grafts procedure i would say is awesome…

dont tell me that for this area of hairloss,which is very small since the guy has so many native hair, we need 5500-6000 and if he progresses to NW6 we just need 4000 more!!!

I guess that’s where you and I differ. You think you see thinness, I see a natural dense result. The whole point of this procedure was to establish real density. It’s not full native density but it is considerably higher than what a regular sized transplant would look thus enabling his desire for any style he wants to sport. Trust me, if this was 3000 grafts, you’d know it. Don’t think this is a case that is common for all our patients. It would be way too aggressive for someone younger and with a weaker family history. This talk of “if” that and “if” this with regards to a NW7 is pretty far fetched if you ask me. It’s like saying one should not drive up the mountainside because what “if” the brakes go out. For that matter, if you think along the lines of what if, then don’t get a hair transplant at all, because you’ll be too worried to care about anything else.

» I guess that’s where you and I differ. You think you see thinness, I see a
» natural dense result. The whole point of this procedure was to establish
» real density. It’s not full native density but it is considerably higher
» than what a regular sized transplant would look thus enabling his desire
» for any style he wants to sport. Trust me, if this was 3000 grafts, you’d
» know it. Don’t think this is a case that is common for all our patients.
» It would be way too aggressive for someone younger and with a weaker
» family history. This talk of “if” that and “if” this with regards to a NW7
» is pretty far fetched if you ask me. It’s like saying one should not drive
» up the mountainside because what “if” the brakes go out. For that matter,
» if you think along the lines of what if, then don’t get a hair transplant
» at all, because you’ll be too worried to care about anything else.

Well for this “if’s” this patient(as you said all his family never progressed further on the norwood scale than this) is on proscar and other patients of yours are on dutasteride…so if your clinic or the patients that have a transplant with you dont “think along the lines of what if my hairloss progresses” and is so farstreched then why they just dont stop the drugs?there is no reason to take them with your logic…is far streched

Ah, and therein lies the whole point. Just because he’s not supposed to progress to a NW7, the Proscar is supposed to be one more step to prevent the “if” factor. Call it an added degree of insurance. Hey, he’s a really nice guy, but we don’t want to see him again.

» I guess that’s where you and I differ. You think you see thinness, I see a
» natural dense result. The whole point of this procedure was to establish
» real density. It’s not full native density but it is considerably higher
» than what a regular sized transplant would look thus enabling his desire
» for any style he wants to sport. Trust me, if this was 3000 grafts, you’d
» know it. Don’t think this is a case that is common for all our patients.
» It would be way too aggressive for someone younger and with a weaker
» family history. This talk of “if” that and “if” this with regards to a NW7
» is pretty far fetched if you ask me. It’s like saying one should not drive
» up the mountainside because what “if” the brakes go out. For that matter,
» if you think along the lines of what if, then don’t get a hair transplant
» at all, because you’ll be too worried to care about anything else.

Come on Joe, standards have been raised so much in the last decade by clinics such as H&W. The realities of hairloss are also accepted more openly and one of those,as Cole said is that hairloss almost always progresses and that the idea of stabilisation is a bit of a myth.

I hate that reality but I would argue that anyone who has gone beyond a NW2 will progress. I think that the difference between people is the rate and the initial pattern. How many NW3 have you seen of 70 years old or 80 for that matter. Before you ask, I do still want to be attractive to 22 year olds at 80 or 90 although as I think of it 22 year olds aren’t attracted to me now though:-(

» Ah, and therein lies the whole point. Just because he’s not supposed to
» progress to a NW7, the Proscar is supposed to be one more step to prevent
» the “if” factor. Call it an added degree of insurance. Hey, he’s a really
» nice guy, but we don’t want to see him again.

So its more than clear that there is the "if " factor and we need insurance from it… then its not so farstreched dont you think? :slight_smile:

I just hope the insurance does not run out for this patient…because i dont think your safe plan of 4000 more grafts to cover the entire scalp(that you described us) is so safe when you needed 5700 grafts to cover that small bald area

The Greek,

"So its more than clear that there is the "if " factor and we need insurance from it… then its not so farstreched dont you think? :slight_smile:

I just hope the insurance does not run out for this patient…because i dont think your safe plan of 4000 more grafts to cover the entire scalp(that you described us) is so safe when you needed 5700 grafts to cover that small bald area"

Any responsible clinic will always factor in “if”. I know of no clinic that has a crystal ball so it’s always best to do this.

Let me ask you something. Do you actually believe what you’re writing or do you think that I’m so “full of BS” and that I’m “salesman trash” like you’re saying in other threads that I’ll keep on trying to explain the results just to sell it? If the former, then reread to learn something. Not all the grafts were placed in the front 1/2, most but not all. The rest were in the crown. Also if he were to lose the rest to a NW6 then the goal wouldn’t be to re-establish the density but to have a natural decrease in density toward the crown. You’re acting as if he has a hairline across his eyebrows and his eyes covered by this temple closure. We’re not talking about a kid here. If anything I think we’re known for being a little responsible with our patients than what you’re trying to present here.

“Come on Joe, standards have been raised so much in the last decade by
clinics such as H&W. The realities of hairloss are also accepted more
openly and one of those,as Cole said is that hairloss almost always
progresses and that the idea of stabilisation is a bit of a myth.”

And I agree with this totally, Marco. But this does not mean that any progression will be consistent over the years. The rate of progression can and will vary greatly over time. For several years or even a couple of decades hair loss can appear to simply stop when in fact it has progressed so slowly that it only appears to have stopped. Other times it can kick in and accelerate. When performing work like this all scenarios have to be realized and discussed and consequences considered but when it’s all said and done the doctor determines based on experience just how high the chances are.

“I hate that reality but I would argue that anyone who has gone beyond a» NW2 will progress. I think that the difference between people is the rate» and the initial pattern. How many NW3 have you seen of 70 years old or 80» for that matter. Before you ask, I do still want to be attractive to 22» year olds at 80 or 90 although as I think of it 22 year olds aren’t» attracted to me now though:-(”

I hear ya man. The thing is, for this patient, his grandfathers were about the same as him so this is just one factor to consider. Regarding the 22 year olds, I feel your pain but by the time we’re 80, then we’ll have gene therapy for our hair, our skin, our organs, our minds, etc. 80 will be the “new” 30, hahaha:)

I think he looks very good.

If he’s “stripped out” after another procedure, couldn’t he FUE “as needed” from this point on?

We’re talking the price of a nice Toyota, here fellas.
Well worth it, IMO.

Peace.

» Let me ask you something. Do you actually believe what you’re writing or
» do you think that I’m so “full of BS” and that I’m “salesman trash” like
» you’re saying in other threads that I’ll keep on trying to explain the
» results just to sell it? If the former, then reread to learn something.
» Not all the grafts were placed in the front 1/2, most but not all. The
» rest were in the crown. Also if he were to lose the rest to a NW6 then the
» goal wouldn’t be to re-establish the density but to have a natural decrease
» in density toward the crown. You’re acting as if he has a hairline across
» his eyebrows and his eyes covered by this temple closure. We’re not
» talking about a kid here. If anything I think we’re known for being a
» little responsible with our patients than what you’re trying to present
» here.

» Let me ask you something. Do you actually believe what you’re writing or
» do you think that I’m so “full of BS” and that I’m “salesman trash” like
» you’re saying in other threads that I’ll keep on trying to explain the
» results just to sell it? If the former, then reread to learn something.
» Not all the grafts were placed in the front 1/2, most but not all. The
» rest were in the crown. Also if he were to lose the rest to a NW6 then the
» goal wouldn’t be to re-establish the density but to have a natural decrease
» in density toward the crown. You’re acting as if he has a hairline across
» his eyebrows and his eyes covered by this temple closure. We’re not
» talking about a kid here. If anything I think we’re known for being a
» little responsible with our patients than what you’re trying to present
» here.

I dont want to talk about what i believe regarding your comments about HM and your sources…that is something that is over.David stopped it so dont bring the subject back since you should adress it when you had the chance.Inever called you “salesmen trash” bu the way!

Now regarding the transplant that you show us i believe what i say 100% and for sure you are trying to sell it, as it is your job, nothing wrong with it, i am here to comment and i dont think i am illogical, there are posters that say the same thing!!!I dont know if you noticed it but most of the posters dont buy it so dont blame it on me.

As for the responsible for your patients, i believe that you are one of the best strip clinics that i see in these forums and i have said it repeadetly.
On the other hand…

  1. you are recommending to your patients to use dutasteride which is not approved for hairlosss…i find that very irresponsible
  2. you use strip method which most of the clinics start to abandon and its barbaric for me…
  3. you start bringing results that are “debetable” like this one…

well these things make me change my mind as i learn more and more in here…

Its nothing personal i am just very carefull and very demanding…

» I think he looks very good.
»
» If he’s “stripped out” after another procedure, couldn’t he FUE “as
» needed” from this point on?
»
» We’re talking the price of a nice Toyota, here fellas.
» Well worth it, IMO.
»
» Peace.

Yep, I agree with that. A good plan as the horse shoe progresses in this order.

1: strip (not overdone so no wide scars)
2: FUE + fill in strip scar if needs be
3: a) BHT (if your sofar, heli or a handfull of others or if it gets predictable or after a test session.
b) If BHT is no good then lift the rim of the horse shoe by reduction.
4: HM could be out by that time but probably not
5: Go to mexico for a person to person transplant if your nuts.

The most important thisng is that there is a plan should things progress.

maybe he is lucky and wont progress much further.

but the reason why H&W say you should use fin or avo is coz they think HM will be here in a few years. maybe 1, maybe 3 , maybe 5 , maybe 10 , but it will come in the next years.

so jotronic. why you made up this lie about HM???

thats the question we all want to have answered.

» maybe he is lucky and wont progress much further.
»
» but the reason why H&W say you should use fin or avo is coz they think HM
» will be here in a few years. maybe 1, maybe 3 , maybe 5 , maybe 10 , but
» it will come in the next years.
»
» so jotronic. why you made up this lie about HM???
»
» thats the question we all want to have answered.

Its his forum so he has complete immunity from any controversial questions. Its basically ignore or delete.

» maybe he is lucky and wont progress much further.
»
» but the reason why H&W say you should use fin or avo is coz they think HM
» will be here in a few years. maybe 1, maybe 3 , maybe 5 , maybe 10 , but
» it will come in the next years.
»
» so jotronic. why you made up this lie about HM???
»
» thats the question we all want to have answered.

Helpme,

First off, I don’t lie and I certainly don’t waste my time worrying about the end of this industry because I do not have time to. If I say something it is either a fact or it is an opinion based on what I observe/hear/read. As a man, I am wrong from time to time, and if pointed out, I’ll own up but the last thing I do is lie. For you to say that I’m lying because of an assumed “threat” is very small, ignorant, and petty as are most of the comments regarding my character. I’ve got a history of helping people and have seen first hand the good and the bad as a patient. You have a few posts to your name asking whether you should have a procedure that isn’t even available yet. Your questions about having HM or not is about as valid as me asking if should get custom rims for my 2010 as of yet to be named Nissan whatever.

I hate to say this but your comment about meds being prescribed to thwart HM is rather narrow minded. Prescribing meds is the responsible thing to do with the caveat that the patient should know the sides (if any) that are possible. Meds are prescribed so that the chance for need to come back is greatly reduced thereby potentially eliminating what the business world would call a revenue stream. Financially it is counter productive to recommend that a patient at least consider meds. If anything we want the patient to build a solid foundation for surgery by stopping or greatly slowing the loss of native hair. This helps to eliminate what the hair mills refer to as “staying ahead of your hair loss”. Every responsible clinic knows that native hair can continue to thin (very slowly or not) so it makes no sense to not attempt to halt or slow any loss before adding more via surgery. Furthermore, I highly suspect that even if HM turns out to be all you hope to be medications will still be necessary to consider as even your precious HM will not prevent your existing hair from continuing to fall out. Meds will always be something to consider until a permanent, genetically altering solution is found.

Greek,

Have you never made a statement that had to be amended after a period of time because of “advancements”? If not then I’d like to see your crystal ball. You sound like an armchair QB especially with the “trash salesman” comment you made the other day. Classy.

» Prescribing meds is the responsible thing to
» do with the caveat that the patient should know the sides (if any) that
» are possible. Meds are prescribed so that the chance for need to come back
» is greatly reduced thereby potentially eliminating what the business world
» would call a revenue stream.

How will he know the sides when you prescribe Dut since you dont even know them because it is not approved for hairloss patients.and how is it responsible to prescribe a drug that is only approved for cancer for hairloss??

» Financially it is counter productive to
» recommend that a patient at least consider meds. If anything we want the
» patient to build a solid foundation for surgery by stopping or greatly
» slowing the loss of native hair. This helps to eliminate what the hair
» mills refer to as “staying ahead of your hair loss”. Every responsible
» clinic knows that native hair can continue to thin (very slowly or not) so
» it makes no sense to not attempt to halt or slow any loss before adding
» more via surgery.

This is wrong since the greatest advancement lately in transplants is hairloss drugs since your results look better because you have more native hair to work with thus eliminating the supply and demand issue artificially at least in the short term…That makes the results look better and bring more patients to clinics…and that is more productive financially

» Furthermore, I highly suspect that even if HM turns out
» to be all you hope to be medications will still be necessary to consider
» as even your precious HM will not prevent your existing hair from
» continuing to fall out. Meds will always be something to consider until a
» permanent, genetically altering solution is found.

If HM comes out drugs will be a choice because we will have enough supply to cover the demand, now drugs are not an option they are a necessity if you want your transplant to look good since the demand and supply issue still stands and meds are the only way to turn the tables to your favorite.But these meds have sides and a maybe lot of people suffer them in silence so that they dont risk their transplant.That wont be the case with HM

» Greek,
»
» Have you never made a statement that had to be amended after a period of
» time because of “advancements”? If not then I’d like to see your crystal
» ball. You sound like an armchair QB especially with the “trash salesman”
» comment you made the other day. Classy.

Well if the subject is out of my league and the advancements prove me wrong once, after that i shut my mouth and i understand that i was 2 ignorant to post a statement that could affect peoples choises.You see when you say that you talk with people deep in the know people might actually believe you and get affected by your words and thinking that there is no other option is sight and their only option is a transplant…And since the last time you were speaking with people in the know and they were telling you 20 years 2 a lifetime propably you might be proved wrong again.

» Helpme,
»
» First off, I don’t lie and I certainly don’t waste my time worrying about
» the end of this industry because I do not have time to. If I say something
» it is either a fact or it is an opinion based on what I observe/hear/read.
» As a man, I am wrong from time to time, and if pointed out, I’ll own up
» but the last thing I do is lie.

I agree, Joe. I don’t think you are lying, and I have no reason to think you are. However it is clear you have not been following the latest developments of HM. E.g., Aderans’ two-cell technique with the 3-D matrix, Intercytex’s deals with Bosley, Intercytex’s Phase I results, etc.

Your questions about having HM or not is about as
» valid as me asking if should get custom rims for my 2010 as of yet to be
» named Nissan whatever.

This doesn’t makes sense, Joe. Research and development takes years – and HT surgery is really f**king expensive, the MOST expensive aesthetic surgery. Saving your money and avoiding strip surgery makes sense if all available information indicates HM will be available in 5 years.

Financially it is counter productive to
» recommend that a patient at least consider meds.

Not true. If everyone didn’t take any meds then most would have very severe balding. Thus the results would be so aesthetically abhorrent that very, very few, perhaps only the most desperate, would get HTs. Who’d pay tens of thousands just to get the “Joe Biden” look? The HT industry needs meds in the same way the wig industry needs glue.

Furthermore, I highly suspect that even if HM turns out
» to be all you hope to be medications will still be necessary to consider
» as even your precious HM will not prevent your existing hair from
» continuing to fall out. Meds will always be something to consider until a
» permanent, genetically altering solution is found.

Huh?? Of course HM would not prevent existing hair from becoming falling out. But that’s irrelevant. You would just get an additional surgery to inject more DP cells into the thinning area. And these new hairs from HM are genetically resistant to balding. No meds needed.

» » maybe he is lucky and wont progress much further.
» »
» » but the reason why H&W say you should use fin or avo is coz they think
» HM
» » will be here in a few years. maybe 1, maybe 3 , maybe 5 , maybe 10 ,
» but
» » it will come in the next years.
» »
» » so jotronic. why you made up this lie about HM???
» »
» » thats the question we all want to have answered.
»
» Helpme,
»
» First off, I don’t lie and I certainly don’t waste my time worrying about
» the end of this industry because I do not have time to. If I say something
» it is either a fact or it is an opinion based on what I observe/hear/read.
» As a man, I am wrong from time to time, and if pointed out, I’ll own up
» but the last thing I do is lie. For you to say that I’m lying because of
» an assumed “threat” is very small, ignorant, and petty as are most of the
» comments regarding my character. I’ve got a history of helping people and
» have seen first hand the good and the bad as a patient. You have a few
» posts to your name asking whether you should have a procedure that isn’t
» even available yet. Your questions about having HM or not is about as
» valid as me asking if should get custom rims for my 2010 as of yet to be
» named Nissan whatever.
»
» I hate to say this but your comment about meds being prescribed to thwart
» HM is rather narrow minded. Prescribing meds is the responsible thing to
» do with the caveat that the patient should know the sides (if any) that
» are possible. Meds are prescribed so that the chance for need to come back
» is greatly reduced thereby potentially eliminating what the business world
» would call a revenue stream. Financially it is counter productive to
» recommend that a patient at least consider meds. If anything we want the
» patient to build a solid foundation for surgery by stopping or greatly
» slowing the loss of native hair. This helps to eliminate what the hair
» mills refer to as “staying ahead of your hair loss”. Every responsible
» clinic knows that native hair can continue to thin (very slowly or not) so
» it makes no sense to not attempt to halt or slow any loss before adding
» more via surgery. Furthermore, I highly suspect that even if HM turns out
» to be all you hope to be medications will still be necessary to consider
» as even your precious HM will not prevent your existing hair from
» continuing to fall out. Meds will always be something to consider until a
» permanent, genetically altering solution is found.
»
» Greek,
»
» Have you never made a statement that had to be amended after a period of
» time because of “advancements”? If not then I’d like to see your crystal
» ball. You sound like an armchair QB especially with the “trash salesman”
» comment you made the other day. Classy.

so if it was no lie, why were some posts deleted then?

and i study business and maybe its only my opinion but i think that it is from a business point of view a good decision to tell people to take meds. you seem more helpful and more ethic by that and well, i have to admit that you are really one of the most ethic clinics worldwide.
if you view it strategically its good in your situation to tell people to take meds. ask hasson&wong why they do it. its not only coz of ethical reasons…anyway just my opionion from my less knowledge about your business.

i got to say, h&w is good. they make good and ethical work. and i even think that you jotronic act ethical. i really think it coz i know a salesman from germany and he does it the same way. in an ethical way. im not against salesmen. never. they got their place. this one from germany is now even a friend of mine. :slight_smile:

The Greek,

“How will he know the sides when you prescribe Dut since you dont even know them because it is not approved for hairloss patients.and how is it responsible to prescribe a drug that is only approved for cancer for hairloss??”

Wow, Dut is only approved (FDA, right?) for cancer? When did this happen? Should I start a thread in a cancer support forum telling everyone that there is now a cancer pill? Will they call you a liar? Dutasteride is not “approved for cancer”. It’s approved for the treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia (enlarged prostate). As for the sides, does the Dut pill know when it is prescribed for hair loss thus making the sides effectively DIFFERENT? That is one smart Dut pill. The side effects are well noted as Dutasteride is not the newest script med on the block. We tell our patients about the POTENTIAL sides as stated by what is KNOWN. This is responsible medicine. Actually, Dutasteride is prescribed for no more than probably 200 of our patients. Finsteride is still the gold standard.

(In reference to prescribing meds to prevent the great hair chase) “This is wrong since the greatest advancement lately in transplants is hair loss drugs since your results look better because you have more native hair to work with thus eliminating the supply and demand issue artificially at least in the short term…That makes the results look better and bring more patients to clinics…and that is more productive financially.”

So, by your rationale, proprietors of HM could recommend NOT using meds in order for patients to continue their loss after an HM treatment thus locking them into a cycle of chasing their hair loss. “Unlimited” supply or not, chasing loss is chasing loss. Abolishing meds would be great IF HM was going to only cost pennies per injection/placement/whatever. Guess what, it probably won’t. I mean, we’re talking about the cure for baldness here, right? Well, it probably won’t be pennies, so those patients that take your advice will continue to lose hair, donor or otherwise, and could potentially NOT be able to afford further treatments. This is all hypothetical but see the parallel? Since you used me as an example, lets discuss. If you think for a second that meds make my result what it is (like it or not) you either don’t know how meds work or you have no idea what my case entails. I was close to being a full blown NW7, brother, and I had 300 minis sticking straight up compliments of Dr. Norris. My crown did benefit from meds but only the peripheral edge. Meds tend to work only in the areas where the velous hairs are still pretty strong. Meds do not produce hair where hair has been absent. I had lots of absent spaces on my scalp therefore my result most definitely is NOT from meds.

“If HM comes out drugs will be a choice because we will have enough supply to cover the demand, now drugs are not an option they are a necessity if you want your transplant to look good since the demand and supply issue still stands and meds are the only way to turn the tables to your favorite.But these meds have sides and a maybe lot of people suffer them in silence so that they dont risk their transplant.That wont be the case with HM.”

News flash. Drugs are a choice now. How many guys on this forum fore go meds in favor of home brew concoctions? A lot. The notion that many patients “maybe” suffer in silence is pure guess work. I’ve seen a lot of speculation as to what the cost of HM will be. I hardly think that some of the guesstimates will have people throwing their prescriptions out the window.

“Well if the subject is out of my league and the advancements prove me wrong once, after that i shut my mouth and i understand that i was 2 ignorant to post a statement that could affect peoples choises.You see when you say that you talk with people deep in the know people might actually believe you and get affected by your words and thinking that there is no other option is sight and their only option is a transplant…And since the last time you were speaking with people in the know and they were telling you 20 years 2 a lifetime propably you might be proved wrong again.”

Could it be that some people may believe me because I have a pretty good record of not lying? The difference between you and me TheGreek is that I have owned up to my mistake already. In case you hadn’t seen it I apologized for my statement. True or not it really got some people upset which most definitely was not my intent. Did you see the colorful metaphors thrown around, yours included? “Lying trash salesman”? The whole situation was blown WAY out of proportion and I apologized. Speculation, hearsay, call it what you want. No one knows the release date of HM, not even ICX.

Again with the word twisting. Your quote above says that when I said HM was 20 years off or longer, I said so after speaking with someone “in the know”. Your inaccurate quote is fodder for more forum lynch mobbing because it is completely wrong. I spoke MY opinion based on what knowledge I had at the time. That was a couple of years ago. Someone else posted a quote of mine from back in 2003 where I mentioned that HM was not government funded research. Since then ICX has received such funding for robotic automation. Besides, the quote was taken out of context because my point was that the HM research itself at the time was not government funded. The funds were from private enterprise and in private enterprise, in today’s economy, capitalism still rules and the basic idea of capitalism is supply and demand. Bosley knows all about this. Note their gradual decrease in HT prices over the years.

Perhaps you should think a bit more before you respond to some of my posts. Your responses are based more in emotion than anything. I say anything remotely negative about HM and because I’m “the man” and represent “the establishment” you get all old school NWA/Dr. Dre trying to stick it to me.

BB,

“I agree, Joe. I don’t think you are lying, and I have no reason to think you are. However it is clear you have not been following the latest developments of HM. E.g., Aderans’ two-cell technique with the 3-D matrix, Intercytex’s deals with Bosley, Intercytex’s Phase I results, etc.”

Thank you, truly. Thing is, I agreed about this. I absolutely, emphatically stated that I am not following HM very much, very little in fact. That is one reason why some claims as to my “fear” of HM are just wild to me. How can I be afraid of something I don’t even know much about?

“This doesn’t makes sense, Joe. Research and development takes years – and HT surgery is really f**king expensive, the MOST expensive aesthetic surgery. Saving your money and avoiding strip surgery makes sense if all available information indicates HM will be available in 5 years.”

You may not have understood me. My statement was more along the lines of “don’t count your chickens till they hatch.”

"Financially it is counter productive to
» recommend that a patient at least consider meds.

Not true. If everyone didn’t take any meds then most would have very severe balding. Thus the results would be so aesthetically abhorrent that very, very few, perhaps only the most desperate, would get HTs. Who’d pay tens of thousands just to get the “Joe Biden” look? The HT industry needs meds in the same way the wig industry needs glue."

Well, from your point of view, you are correct. You see, I/we haven’t looked at it like that. We look at it from the point of view that represents, what we think, is good for the patient. I take my personal experience as a guide. Had I been on meds, one could say that I wouldn’t even be here now because my loss would not have progressed from a NW2 to a NW6/7. I see it like this. If, as you say (hypothetically), no one took meds and all the results were “horrid” because of continued loss they would only be so based on today’s standards. If meds were not around then the bar would have never been raised to where it is now. Sessions would be smaller but I suspect the refinement would have still improved. Hairlines would be more conservative, density would be lower, etc. but overall still better (note this statement is not to represent the industry as a whole, just the better clinics). One thing that I tell patients with regards to meds is this: “Meds are important because even though you may be a great guy, we really don’t want to see you again”, meaning, stay on the meds to prevent the need for more surgery as much as possible. We also explain our pricing this way. Get more in one session because it is cheaper in the long run because of the sliding scale. The average cost per graft drops. It’s still not cheap butit helps. Another way to look at it is this. If, as some have said, meds are good for increasing revenue by making patients look better, how does it explain gallery results that are say eight months, one year or even two years out? Hair loss usually does not progress so fast as to make a 4000 graft hair transplant look like a Biden train wreck in this period of time and this is when you see most results in a HT clinic gallery. One rarely ever sees results five and ten years out.

“Huh?? Of course HM would not prevent existing hair from becoming falling out. But that’s irrelevant. You would just get an additional surgery to inject more DP cells into the thinning area. And these new hairs from HM are genetically resistant to balding. No meds needed.”

BB, keep the context of my answer in mind. As I just pointed out to TheGreek, this most likely will not be mere pennies per injection. I could be wrong because there is the argument that a supply of patients that could theoretically far outweigh that of surgery would drive the price down quickly but no one really knows what something like this will cost so if meds are not used and people just want to trot down to their local clinic for more DP injections it may or may not be that easy. I don’t know, because we’re dealing with the future here and no matter how much I do not know I do know that this is up in the air as of today. It could be dirt cheap or some greedy capitalists may want to take advantage of our vanity. Who knows?

Helpme007,

“so if it was no lie, why were some posts deleted then?”

David answered this and he will confirm that not only am I not a moderator I do not have a master delete button and most certainly did not ask him to delete anything for me. On top of that, I am here now addressing the fall out from my mistake.

“and i study business and maybe its only my opinion but i think that it is from a business point of view a good decision to tell people to take meds. you seem more helpful and more ethic by that and well, i have to admit that you are really one of the most ethic clinics worldwide.
if you view it strategically its good in your situation to tell people to take meds. ask hasson&wong why they do it. its not only coz of ethical reasons…anyway just my opionion from my less knowledge about your business.”

I understand your point and can’t blame people for not knowing better. You are not our patient so how could you? The problem is, we’re dealing with an industry that is notoriously crooked. The mere mention of HT surgery conjures images for some of back room hacks trying to fatten their wallets. The image is not without merit but there are some clinics out there, ours included, that try to do the right thing. If we were a lawn mower business one could say that we ask customers to mow their lawns twice as much as is necessary to keep a better looking lawn knowing full well that their lawn mowers may break down sooner from added wear and tear. This may or may not be a common practice but the consequence is only a few hundred bucks for parts and labor. We deal with people that are trying to improve their self image, their self esteem and it costs a hell of a lot of money. The downside to misleading people is much much higher with HT surgery.

“i got to say, h&w is good. they make good and ethical work. and i even think that you jotronic act ethical. i really think it coz i know a salesman from germany and he does it the same way. in an ethical way. im not against salesmen. never. they got their place. this one from germany is now even a friend of mine.”

Thank you for your kind comments and I think I know of whom you speak in Germany. Tell him I said hello.