» sounds like rev is one of the obsessed guys who does endless
» speculation…that drives them nuts
»
» emails their manager? 
I emailed info@puretechventures.com; their office manager replied.
Grow up man.
.
» These comments were made by Daphne Zohar (Follica) on xconomy.com. This is,
» pretty much the last thing we’ll hear from Follica until their next press
» release. In other words, anything beyond this point is pure speculation.
»
» Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various
» forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have
» responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of
» context and posted on various websites.
»
» Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the
» most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time.
» Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and
» confidential information.
»
» We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any
» Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite
» our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are
» absolutely focused on driving this forward.
»
» Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
I don’t really see much to be worried about in this statement. I read it as Daphne saying: “Please stop e-mailing us questions regarding the things you read on message boards. It’s ANNOYING.”
Let’s be honest guys, we know they’re a bunch of us that have done that.
»
» The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different from
» those that were coming out of that company in the past.
I’ve seen her past and current statements, and I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. I think some people expect every sentence to carry some sort of hidden meaning that needs to be decoded. I think you are over-analyzing her remarks.
In any case, I found her latest statements encouraging – just the opposite of what you thought. Who is right?
Despite any statements made, past or present, I still have no idea if this treatment will work. But I am happy they are going to start human trials.
» I still have no idea if this treatment will work.
Let me expand on this remark. I absolutely believe Follica’s procedure can create a new hair follicle on a bald person’s scalp. And I believe ICX can as well, with their technique.
So, whether someone can create a brand new hair follicle is not the issue. Hell, Jahoda created new hair follicles via HM techniques 24 years ago! (Nature. 1984 Oct 11-17;311(5986):560-2).
The issue, guys, is making the leap between generating a new hair follicle, and consistently generating many thousands of cosmetically acceptable new hair follicles, which is what a high paying customer expects.
Wide is the gap between proof-of-concept and a viable cosmetic procedure. This gap is where so many people have been stalled, from Gho to Cooley, from Bazaan to Unger, from Aderans to ICX.
In summary, I believe Follica’s claims of creating new hair follicles. But I am still waiting for the evidence that what they have is acceptable enough for a treatment they can market.
It’s pretty funny that almost 25 years have passed since HM was discovered, and we still don’t have a HM procedure on the market.
Nature. 1984 Oct 11-17;311(5986):560-2.
Induction of hair growth by implantation of cultured dermal papilla cells.
Jahoda CA, Horne KA, Oliver RF.
Mammalian hairs are formed by differentiation and keratinization of cells produced in the epidermal matrix (Figs 3, 4). Using the rodent vibrissa follicle as a model, transplantation studies have shown that the dermal papilla, a discrete population of specialized fibroblasts, is of prime importance in the growth of hair. Papillae induce hair growth when implanted into follicles and can interact with skin epidermis to form new hair follicles. When grown in culture, papilla cells display singular morphological and behavioural characteristics compared with connective tissue cells from other skin sources. We report here that serially cultured adult papilla cells can induce the growth of hair when implanted into follicles which otherwise would not grow hairs. This finding presents an opportunity to characterize properties distinguishing the papilla cell population from other skin fibroblasts, and, more specifically, those which control hair growth. The eventual application of this work to human hair replacement techniques can also be envisaged.
PMID: 6482967 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
» It’s pretty funny that almost 25 years have passed since HM was discovered,
» and we still don’t have a HM procedure on the market.
»
» Nature. 1984 Oct 11-17;311(5986):560-2.
»
» Induction of hair growth by implantation of cultured dermal papilla
» cells.
»
» Jahoda CA, Horne KA, Oliver RF.
»
» Mammalian hairs are formed by differentiation and keratinization of cells
» produced in the epidermal matrix (Figs 3, 4). Using the rodent vibrissa
» follicle as a model, transplantation studies have shown that the dermal
» papilla, a discrete population of specialized fibroblasts, is of prime
» importance in the growth of hair. Papillae induce hair growth when
» implanted into follicles and can interact with skin epidermis to form new
» hair follicles. When grown in culture, papilla cells display singular
» morphological and behavioural characteristics compared with connective
» tissue cells from other skin sources. We report here that serially cultured
» adult papilla cells can induce the growth of hair when implanted into
» follicles which otherwise would not grow hairs. This finding presents an
» opportunity to characterize properties distinguishing the papilla cell
» population from other skin fibroblasts, and, more specifically, those which
» control hair growth. The eventual application of this work to human hair
» replacement techniques can also be envisaged.
»
» PMID: 6482967 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I think the biggest blow is Intercytex press release in March, that kind of dampen my spirits about new research despite how promising it may sound.
ICX had no threats of individuals & smaller companies copying their work in the near-term, but they really needed public perception on their side to keep money coming in.
Follica is in exactly the opposite position right now.
We don’t know jack about Follica except that two months ago they were talking about trials right away and now they’re zipping up. Either something actually happened in the last two months, or they’re just changing their PR stance a little. Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but I find the latter scenario a lot more likely.
I suspect that either Follica’s method will work (in little or no different form from the procedural variantions that they’ve already patented), or else it’s gonna be a total bust. If it doesn’t work soon then it probably just goes onto the huge pile of “learning experiences” for the MPB research community.
» ICX had no threats of individuals & smaller companies copying their work in
» the near-term, but they really needed public perception on their side to
» keep money coming in.
»
» Follica is in exactly the opposite position right now.
»
»
»
»
» We don’t know jack about Follica except that two months ago they were
» talking about trials right away and now they’re zipping up. Either
» something actually happened in the last two months, or they’re just
» changing their PR stance a little. Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but
» I find the latter scenario a lot more likely.
»
» I suspect that either Follica’s method will work (in little or no
» different form from the procedural variantions that they’ve already
» patented), or else it’s gonna be a total bust. If it doesn’t work soon
» then it probably just goes onto the huge pile of “learning experiences” for
» the MPB research community.
»
»
One thing comforting about Follica is that they have some of the world’s best doctors on their team, Dr cotsarelis and Dr Vera Price are both big names in the hair loss community, they probably have a better chance of succeeding than most companies.
» »
» » The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different
» from
» » those that were coming out of that company in the past.
»
» I’ve seen her past and current statements, and I honestly have no clue
» what you are talking about. I think some people expect every sentence to
» carry some sort of hidden meaning that needs to be decoded. I think you are
» over-analyzing her remarks.
»
» In any case, I found her latest statements encouraging – just the
» opposite of what you thought. Who is right?
»
» Despite any statements made, past or present, I still have no idea if this
» treatment will work. But I am happy they are going to start human trials.
Well, previously the company was inviting national news agencies to do pieces on them and pushing press releases announcing their research. Now, they don’t want to answer questions and have announced that they will no longer be releasing any further information. That is a siginificant change in tone, and it has come about for a reason. What that reason is, we can only speculate, but you can’t deny that there is something driving their sudden change in attitude.
» » »
» » » The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different
» » from
» » » those that were coming out of that company in the past.
» »
» » I’ve seen her past and current statements, and I honestly have no clue
» » what you are talking about. I think some people expect every sentence
» to
» » carry some sort of hidden meaning that needs to be decoded. I think you
» are
» » over-analyzing her remarks.
» »
» » In any case, I found her latest statements encouraging – just the
» » opposite of what you thought. Who is right?
» »
» » Despite any statements made, past or present, I still have no idea if
» this
» » treatment will work. But I am happy they are going to start human
» trials.
»
» Well, previously the company was inviting national news agencies to do
» pieces on them and pushing press releases announcing their research. Now,
» they don’t want to answer questions and have announced that they will no
» longer be releasing any further information. That is a siginificant change
» in tone, and it has come about for a reason. What that reason is, we can
» only speculate, but you can’t deny that there is something driving their
» sudden change in attitude.
Maybe they are worried that some other companies may steal their technologies. Some poster already mentioned this, let’s face it, it’s a lot easier to copy what Follica is trying to do than to copy Intercytex.
» » Yeah, sounds like the classic “Get off our backs, we’ll call YOU when we
» » know something.”
» »
» »
» » Although in the case of Follica, I have to believe that they’d be
» totally
» » concerned about their method & results getting into public knowledge
» too
» » early. It’s just too damn simple for anything else.
» »
» » It’s not like ICX in that respect at all.
»
»
»
»
»
» Exactly.
»
» In fact, even if trials go well…they might not say anything
» until they are ready to license to dermatologists offices for fear of men
» trying it at home.
»
»
» The hair removal emobodiment of the patent almost CERTAINLY WOULD WORK as
» it worked in regular mice and removed their fur.
»
»
» Even if it didn’t work on your head, if you had old hair plugs you wanted
» removed or back hair----this will help you.
»
»
» Also, even if it didn’t work in humans for whateve reason, as they get to
» watch brand new hair development on mammals like Chimps and macaques with
» less evolved immune systems, they will likely get to figure out what genes
» do what in hair follicle development and probably can identify on this BIG
» scale exactly what genes cause baldness and hopefully in the future develop
» compounds that can interdict them.
»
»
» Ive not thought about this scenario either, if it didn’t work in either
» the frontal or (shockingly to me) the donor area…it
» still might work on the body. If a guy had a hairy chest for instance, he
» might be able to make alot more of it for a Body hair transplant as far
» fetched as that might seem.
»
»
»
» There will be a trichological benefit out of this scientific find one way
» or another. Im just hoping more donor-area hair can be made. That alone
» would make my day and many other men’s also. If they can make hair up
» front, and especially if they can make hair up front while blocking the
» expression of the CAG-repeat polymorphisms on the androgen receptor
» gene…it would be a friggin’ gold mine.
»
»
» I think they are afraid if they do a trial and have success, alot of men
» will be trying to cop the procedure at home by doing websearches about it
» and being directed to discussions like we have had about it on hairsite and
» find the patent…but that is probably a unfounded
» concern. The general public is pretty stupid and mostly lazy, and aren’t
» into hair like us denziens of hairsite.
»
» I hope they have success and get rich. If they have success, they will be
» getting a few thousand of my dollars I asssure you.
i think the overwhelmingly likely scenario is that they just havent developed a technique that works with any consistent results yet.
but there is a POSSIBILITY that if/when they do perfect the technique, it will actually be TOO simple from a business standpoint, and they’ll withhold their discoveries in order to develop a more complicated method of achieving the same results, so that its premise can’t/wont be duplicated.
fckhrls:
Well, previously the company was inviting national news agencies to do pieces on them and pushing press releases announcing their research. Now, they don’t want to answer questions and have announced that they will no longer be releasing any further information. That is a siginificant changein tone, and it has come about for a reason. What that reason is, we can only speculate, but you can’t deny that there is something driving their sudden change in attitude.
Read her original message dude. Follica won’t release anymore info because of speculations --like yours-- that skew their comments. Daphne’s last message meant nothing… yet here we are, like Henny Penny, worrying that the sky is falling
Daphne Zohar
Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of context and posted on various websites.
However, if you want to speculate something - speculate the meaning of her second paragraph. It seems, they have to work through the proper protocols before they start scraping unnecessary amounts of flesh off people’s heads (or whatever else their process involves).
Daphne Zohar
Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time. Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and confidential information.
We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are absolutely focused on driving this forward.
Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
.
» I think there was a little more to it, or rather, I wish there had been a
» little more to it. Rather than say “we are working on it and won’t be
» talking about it anytime soon”, they could have said, “we are positive on
» our technology and excited about its prospects, but due to patent concerns,
» we will not be releasing anymore information”. There is a very big
» difference between those two types of statements, and the implications are
» significantly different. At the very least, I think we’re looking at years
» before learning about whether or not this thing will work.
agreed.
if Follica was even remotely close, they would not have made a statement that could even remotely be construed as “forget about it for now” which that statement essentially was saying.
if it was strictly a case of them being on the right trail but not wanting information to leak, they would still have spoken about it in a more promotional/encouraging capacity. they would not want people to forget about it or abandon it and explore other solutions.
to me this sounded more like “look, we’re not nearly as close as some of you are desperate to believe, so how about you rabid dogs just back off for a little while, ok?”
» agreed.
»
» if Follica was even remotely close, they would not have made a statement
» that could even remotely be construed as “forget about it for now” which
» that statement essentially was saying.
»
» if it was strictly a case of them being on the right trail but not wanting
» information to leak, they would still have spoken about it in a more
» promotional/encouraging capacity. they would not want people to forget
» about it or abandon it and explore other solutions.
»
» to me this sounded more like “look, we’re not nearly as close as some of
» you are desperate to believe, so how about you rabid dogs just back off for
» a little while, ok?”
You’re speculating. Now re-read her message
Daphne Zohar
Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of context and posted on various websites.
Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time. Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and confidential information.
We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are absolutely focused on driving this forward.
Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
.
» You’re speculating. Now re-read her message
»
» Daphne Zohar
» Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in
» various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact.
» When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way,
» comments have been taken out of context and posted on various
» websites.
Good post rev…unfortunately, some people just like to post irrational negative comments no matter what. Saying they are bound for failure when they haven’t even started the trials yet is just plain stupid. The bottom line is that Follica is a private firm, giving out positive news or hiding bad news doesn’t make any difference to them. PERIOD.
The reason Zohar made that post was becasue people have been speculating way too much and contacting them way way too much, which isn’t constructive at all. So she politely asked everyone to forget Follica for a while and let them do their work. I don’t see anything wrong with this at all!
» Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various
» forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have
» responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of
» context and posted on various websites.
Basically she says here, what you read on the web is exagerrated. This is not going to give you full head of hair.
» Basically she says here, what you read on the web is exagerrated. This is
» not going to give you full head of hair.
Not quite.
» Basically she says here, what you read on the web is exagerrated. This is
» not going to give you full head of hair.
This means they already knows in advance the results of the tests that have yet to begin. Prophets !
of course they know. It never works in large steps but rather many small incremental steps. What media suggested was a cure for hair loss, which everyone with brains knows is not going to happen sudenly out of nowhere.
Follica will produce a treatment that will be far from full head of elvis hair, and it will take them at least 5 years from now on, before it is ready to be sold and if proper 3 phase trials are needed even longer than a decade.
Now compare this with the claims you read on the internet and from the media so far (aka just another hair loss hype) and you will understand what she meant when she said “there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact.”
It’s like that always, the journalists, and desperate guys start fantasizing about a having back full head of hair in just few years, then the scientists (if they are naive enough) try to stop it (which never succeeds). Finally after many years, the cure does not come because it was not meant to be a cure in the first place but instead of taking a lesson, everyone blames the research to be a fraud.
You guys never learn.
» of course they know. It never works in large steps but rather many small
» incremental steps. What media suggested was a cure for hair loss, which
» everyone with brains knows is not going to happen sudenly out of nowhere.
»
» Follica will produce a treatment that will be far from full head of elvis
» hair, and it will take them at least 5 years from now on, before it is
» ready to be sold and if proper 3 phase trials are needed even longer than a
» decade.
»
» Now compare this with the claims you read on the internet and from the
» media so far (aka just another hair loss hype) and you will understand what
» she meant when she said “there has been significant misinformation out
» there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact.”
»
» It’s like that always, the journalists, and desperate guys start
» fantasizing about a having back full head of hair in just few years, then
» the scientists (if they are naive enough) try to stop it (which never
» succeeds). Finally after many years, the cure does not come because it was
» not meant to be a cure in the first place but instead of taking a lesson,
» everyone blames the research to be a fraud.
»
» You guys never learn.
No, you have blown her comment way out of context.
I think you need to pay more attention to what you read and where it comes from.
Most of what you wrote was purely your misguided opinion.