a question
do you think its possible to apply dht blockers in topical formula, such as saw palmetto , finesteride etc?
» a question
»
» do you think its possible to apply dht blockers in topical formula, such as
» saw palmetto , finesteride etc?
yes - these alone wont do alot.
I’m taking biotin, niacin, vitamin d3, and a chelated multi mineral daily.
topically, i just pour aloe vera water every day and let it dry on my head . it helped slowing down the shedding as it made my itching and inflammation almost disappear.
every two days i i spray on my head a home prepared mixture of
( calendula succuss, aloe vera water, several drops from lavender oil, thyme oil, tea tree oil.)
it is antiseptic and kills all the dandruff. Since i started using it all my dandruff disappeared and mind u, I suffer from sebhorric dermatitis which is far more extreme than regular dandruff.
sop I need to help support my hair too. and it seems that the only missing thing from my regimen is a dht blocker. and i mentioned before , ican’t take them internally since i have a very sensitive stomach.
» a question
»
» do you think its possible to apply dht blockers in topical formula, such as
» saw palmetto , finesteride etc?
Yes, the main problem is : It will be just topical or it will be absorb sytemic ? For example if you appply finasteride topical, it will be absorb in systemic way and it will lower your dht levels in your whole body.
Ketoconazole and spironolactone are the best way to go in the topical route
» » a question
» »
» » do you think its possible to apply dht blockers in topical formula, such
» as
» » saw palmetto , finesteride etc?
»
» Yes, the main problem is : It will be just topical or it will be absorb
» sytemic ? For example if you appply finasteride topical, it will be absorb
» in systemic way and it will lower your dht levels in your whole body.
» Ketoconazole and spironolactone are the best way to go in the topical route
keto can be absorbed systemically also
So all topicals result in systematic absorption?
what s an alternative
» So all topicals result in systematic absorption?
» what s an alternative
I said “can be”
not necessarily “will be”
I know you don’t use any topicals.
I tired rogaine and minoxidol . they caused itchiness and didt work for me . Do u recommend anything for me?
And what about the keto? do they mean by that nizoral?
help
» I know you don’t use any topicals.
» I tired rogaine and minoxidol . they caused itchiness and didt work for me
» . Do u recommend anything for me?
» And what about the keto? do they mean by that nizoral?
»
» help
I used nixoral cream for 1 yr in 2008 had no problem other than big shed thinning which subsequently grew back much much thicker. yes ketoconazole is nizoral
Thank u
I guess I’ll order it
» Thank u
» I guess I’ll order it
only use it about 2 to 3 times per week dont leave it on overnight only maybe an hour or so
DO NOT use it every day, that is why you get problems with systemic absorbtion
also get the 2 percent
» So all topicals result in systematic absorption?
» what s an alternative
Heres one:
Thanks Hangin
I will use the shampoo. 2-3 times weekly for 5 min. each time.
Did ur scalp get inflamed from using it. I remember i tried it several years ago for a short time. and it caused some red bumpy spots.
Hey Pete
I looked at their website.
The problem is that , I think toplicals like minoxidol or rogaine which i 've tried did not help me because of the extreme inflammation they caused.
so I’m trying to figure out what are the substances that cause this irritation , and if the y r used in all topicals including elsom. I contacted the website and asked them but they did not get back to me.
besides, u showed me a link for testimonials on other forums. I opened the link and couldn’t find the post regarding this topical
» Thanks Hangin
»
» I will use the shampoo. 2-3 times weekly for 5 min. each time.
» Did ur scalp get inflamed from using it. I remember i tried it several
» years ago for a short time. and it caused some red bumpy spots.
i dont recommend the shampoo
yes it will dry your scalp like wild and I hated the shampoo it is very harsh and has HCL (hydrochloric acid in it)
I dont care about the anti dandruff which is what the shampoo is for
I just want the ketoconazole so I used the cream (2 Percent)
Nizoral did nothing for HanginInThere’s bald crown. And that is what he used it for. A fact.
» Nizoral did nothing for HanginInThere’s bald crown. And that is what he
» used it for. A fact.
When you find something that regrows hair on crown bald spot actually
when you find anything that grows hair on bald spot anywhere on the scalp that is 10 yrs old…let me know you will be a billionaire
nothing can do that, if the follicles are dead they are dead
The japanese study with niz cream the younger newly balding guys had much much more dramatic positive results
Conclusion? when the follicles die they die, 10 yrs later if you try to revive them, good luck.
btw niz cream thickened my hair on the sides and top front immensely
Conclusion? niz cream if it does work on you works 100 times better on “thinning” areas than it does on bald areas
of course this is true with any regimen, this was the same with my internal dht blockers also
let me know when you find something that regrows hair on 10 yr old bald spots, I can look you up in bill gates neighborhood
Notice to “theNatural” (The Jealous one)
If you pay attention and can read you will notice the younger more recently lost hair test subjects are the ones with the best results with nizoral cream.
As I said the longer ago you lost the hair the less your chances of regrowing it, I think this is true with any regimen
10 year old bald spots GOOD LUCK GETTING ANYTHING TO GROW THERE
Japanese study nizoral CREAM ie Ketoconazole (Hair Loss Research & Clinical Trials)
posted by HanginInThere, Manila(UwishUrHere), 23.03.2008, 16:15
Your implication that the shampoo works better because of absorbing into a wet scalp, although on its face it may appear valid, does not hold true, since the study subjects all applied the cream immediately after shampooing, thus onto a WET SCALP,
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-6113-page-4-category-3-order-last_answer.html
Ketoconazole (KCZ), an imidazole anti-fungal agent, is known to be effective for the treatment of seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. In addition, 2% KCZ shampoo was found to improve hair density and the size and proportion of anagen follicles in androgenetic alopecia (AGA) [1] and, in combination with finasteride, to have an additive effect for AGA [2]. Recently, it has been reported that topical application of KCZ stimulates hair growth in C3H/HeN mice [3]. However, whether topical KCZ is effective enough to improve the clinical appearance of AGA is not yet clear. We therefore carried out an open trial of topical 2% KCZ lotion (Nizoral®) in combination with shampoos. Furthermore, to identify the mechanism, which can explain the clinical effect of KCZ on AGA, we performed transient transfection assays using CV-1 cells transfected with androgen receptors (AR).
The six Japanese males from 23 to 51 years old were enrolled in this study with their written informed consent. They presented with grade II vertex to IVa AGA according to the Hamilton–Norwood classification [4]. The subjects applied topical 2% KCZ lotion (Nizoral®) almost every day during or immediately after hair washing with their own unmedicated shampoos. When they revisited our clinic every several months, clinical pictures were obtained to determine the efficacy of the treatment. Two of the men, one 23 years old with grade II vertex and the other 25 years old with Va AGA, showed remarkable hair regrowth after 6 and 10 months, respectively (Fig. 1). The 23-year-old male stopped using KCZ and 3 months later hair loss recurrence on the vertex was noted (Fig. 1c). When he started using KCZ again during shampooing, hairs on the vertex grew again after 3 months (Fig. 1d). These findings constitute evidence of the clinical efficacy of KCZ for AGA. A 41-year-old male showed a slight increase in vertex hair growth after 1 year. Other three of the men, 31, 38 and 51 years old did not show significant improvement. These findings suggest that topical KCZ with shampoo can be effective for some males with AGA.
Fig. 1. A 23-year-old Japanese man who used 2% ketoconazole (KCZ) lotion during shampooing everyday. Six months later, hair regrowth was attained (b) in comparison with the pre-treatment condition (a). Suspension of use for 3 months, however, caused recurrent hair loss (c). Renewed use of KCZ induced renewed growth of vertex hair (d). A 25-year-old Japanese man with AGA (e) applied 2% KCZ lotion immediately after shampooing everyday. Ten months later, hair regrowth was apparent (f).
To identify the mechanism, which can explain the effect of KCZ on AGA, we performed transient transfection assays using an androgen-responsive synthetic promoter for CV-1 cells transfected with AR. At 50–70% confluency in a 24-well plate, the CV-1 cells, maintained in Dulbecco’s modified Eagle’s medium (DMEM) supplemented with 10% fetal bovine serum, were transfected with the transfection reagent Fugene-6 (Roche Diagnostics Corp., Indianapolis, IN, USA) according to the manufacturer’s instructions. For luciferase assays, we transfected 0.1μg of the reporter plasmid, pGL2-GRE3-bG-luc [5], 12.5ng of pCI-neo-BamX-AR(Gly23) [5] and 0.2μg of the pRL-CMV vector, the Renilla luciferase control reporter vector driven by the CMV immediate-early enhancer/promoter, as the internal controls. At 24h after transfection, we added fresh DMEM supplemented with 10% charcoal-treated fetal bovine serum with methyltrienolone (R1881, a stable synthetic androgen) or ethanol as a mock vehicle. The cells were also treated with KCZ (Janssen, L.P., Titusville, NJ) or ethanol as a mock vehicle. At 48h after transfection, the cells were harvested for luciferase assays. Luciferase activities were measured with a luminometer using the Dual-Luciferase™ reporter assay system (Promega, Madison, WI). The results were summarized from three independent sets of transfections and presented as mean±S.D.; statistical significance was tested with Student’s t-test. The results demonstrated that 10 or 20μg/ml KCZ reduced luciferase activity to 67.5% (p<0.01) or 49.9% (p<0.03), respectively, reflecting its suppressive action on AR (Fig. 2). This finding suggests that KCZ improves AGA through the suppression of AR activity.
Fig. 2. KCZ effect on R1881-induced AR transcactivity in CV-1 cells transfected with AR. We used the transfection reagent Fugene-6 (Roche Diagnostics Corp., Indianapolis, IN, USA) to transfect 0.1μg of the reporter plasmid, pGL2-GRE3-bG-luc, 12.5ng of pCI-neo-BamX-AR(Gly23) and 0.2μg of pRL-CMV vector (lanes 1–6) into CV-1 cells cultured at 50–70% confluency in a 24-well plate. The infected cells were treated with 10−9M R1881 (lanes 2–6) or ethanol as a mock vehicle (lane 1). After overnight incubation, KCZ at the indicated concentration was added to the cultures. The activities of the various reporter genes were compared with the luciferase activity in the presence of R1881 and the absence of KCZ (lane 2).
Dermal papilla cells are the main targets for androgen in hair follicles, as evidenced by immunohistochemistry [6] and reporter assays [7] for the detection of AR. Deep penetration of KCZ into dermal papilla is therefore necessary to realize the suppressive action on androgen in vivo. The use of KCZ in combination with detergent containing shampoos in this study may enhance KCZ penetration. On the other hand, a recent study demonstrated that KCZ stimulates hair growth in mice [3], suggesting that its effect on hair is androgen independent. To summarize, KCZ may exert its effect on AGA in both an androgen-dependent and -independent manner.
References
return to Article Outline
[1]. [1]Pierard-Franchimont C, De Doncker P, Cauwenbergh G, Pierard GE. Ketoconazole shampoo: effect of long-term use in androgenic alopecia. Dermatology. 1998;196:474–477. MEDLINE | CrossRef
[2]. [2]Khandpur S, Suman M, Reddy BS. Comparative efficacy of various treatment regimens for androgenetic alopecia in men. J Dermatol. 2002;29:489–498. MEDLINE
[3]. [3]Jiang J, Tsuboi R, Kojima Y, Ogawa H. Topical application of ketoconazole stimulates hair growth in C3H/HeN mice. J Dermatol. 2005;32:243–247. MEDLINE
[4]. [4]Norwood OT. Male pattern baldness: classification and incidence. South Med J. 1975;68:1359–1365. MEDLINE
[5]. [5]Inui S, Nakao T, Itami S. Modulation of androgen receptor transcriptional activity by anti-acne reagents. J Dermatol Sci. 2004;36:97–101. Abstract | Full Text | Full-Text PDF (135 KB) | MEDLINE | CrossRef
[6]. [6]Itami S, Kurata S, Sonoda T, Takayasu S. Interaction between dermal papilla cells and follicular epithelial cells in vitro: effect of androgen. Br J Dermatol. 1995;132:527–532. MEDLINE
[7]. [7]Inui S, Itami S, Pan HJ, Chang C. Lack of androgen transcriptional activity in human keratinocytes. J Dermatol Sci. 2000;23:87–92. Abstract | Full Text | Full-Text PDF (106 KB) | MEDLINE | CrossRef
So…what was the point of you using Nizoral on your crown?
And why have you been skipping around this forum, telling posters that your hair looks fine, except for the crown. C’mon, dude. You have been caught in another lie: “btw niz cream thickened my hair on the sides and top front immensely.” Yeah sure it did…NOT! :no:
Now everyone knows Saw Palmetto and Beta Sitosterol did NOT and could NOT “maintain the rest of your hair.” If they could, you’d have had no reason to apply Nizoral there, and no way to be able to see a difference, unless your hair was thinning in the front to begin with, you little liar.
Hangin
Do you know if its possible to buy it over the counter or is it a prescription drug?
as I understood from u before, use it for 2-3 times a week
when do u oput it ? how much u use on the scalp -generous application or moderate?
how long do you keep it on the scalp before taking a shower?
thanks