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Dear forum readers and fellow HT doctors,
It is time, once again, to share our experiences.
Regarding the correct way to use body, facial and scalp donor hair.
I welcome all to participate in a cordial exchange of views. I request that individual prejudices and commercial interests be kept aside for the purpose of this thread. This way, researching patients can know how to approach their own hair restoration.
Regards,
Dr. A
I shall start the discussion with links to the following threads from the archived forum.
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-48309-mode-full.html&page=
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-52071-mode-full.html&page=
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-30179-mode-full.html&page=
These threads contains many of the results, how BHT evolved at our centre and our experiences.
I think it will be helpful to readers to go over the threads once, to prevent having to cover the same ground repeatedly.
PDF files created for the above links. Click here if the above links do not work:
Link 1
1_file1.pdf
Link 2
1_file2.pdf
Link 3
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-transplant-doctor/arvind/30179.pdf
Dr. Arvind, I really wish to be able to just use body hair to fill up my hairline and temples and not touch my scalp but everyone here thinks this’s not a good idea. The thing is that I want to preserve my head hair as much as possible. Do you really think it will look odd if I use body hair ? I saw checkingin’s pics and I think they are very natural. I would never have guessed they are body hair.,
I think across all opinions is that BHT should be tested first in any one individual as well as used very cautiously. Furthermore, it probably is not a good idea to be using BHT as a first line in HT. Although your case is being conservative, realize that scarring can occur in the temples and hairline… and that might not be good if the BHT fails. A more predictable type of hair should be used in that case. I could be wrong. And I am not trying to sway you. Just be cautious and please don’t be hasty.
“Although your case is being conservative, realize that scarring can occur in the temples and hairline”
HT,
Can you please show us a documented example of this?
I’ve never seen or heard of this happening.
Why would there be any more scarring with the BHT than head-hair in the hairline?
FF,
Take a look at my BHT hairline results (link in my signature).
I (myself and my doc) was trying to mask an old HT “pluggy” hairline with BHT.
I am very happy with the results to date (1.6 years out).
Start small before going for huge numbers.
But 1000 or so in the hairline with the right doc isn’t too risky, IMO.
Good luck.
OMG pulease… the only thing I can agree with is the fact that you say be conservative. Let us just say for instance that the patient was not exactly SOFARSOGOOD. Hmmm why don’t we say the patient is ETERNAL HOPE… who got BHT from the same doctor as you… blah, blah, blah… and guess what? It did not work out for him… IN fact… it grew… then died after 8 months… hmmm maybe that was a fluke. Well, Scarredup5 had BHT and guess what… a failure… oh BTW same doctor… but I will go on record and say that I seriously don’t believe that failure is clinic dependent on any one clinic and/or doctor… Why?because that same clinic has HELIBOY to sport… and deserving so because… that case was hell… and UMAR corrected it… HOWEVER… what we see here in these few cases is this:is a 50/50 pos/neg result… hmmm oh and within the same couple of years…
And what I am saying here is this. We don’t know. BHT is unpredictable… that is it in a nutshell.
HT writes,
“Hmmm why don’t we say the patient is ETERNAL HOPE… who got BHT from the same doctor as you… blah, blah, blah… and guess what? It did not work out for him… IN fact… it grew… then died after 8 months… “
When you run out of legitimate arguments, you always fall back on the same BS. Sigh…
Mentioning the same two patients over and over and over (that’s our HT for ya).
Aren’t you tired of going in circles about those two cases?
I am.
But, ok, here we go again…
Please show us the documentation on EH’s case.
Have you examined him yourself HT?
Have EH and Dr. Umar explain the situation THEMSELVES and we can find out the truth.
You have presented no documentation from Dr. Umar or EH regarding the case.
You have had only had “side bar” conversations with EH.
Why does EH not SPEAK FOR HIMSELF???
Very questionable, IMO.
and
YOU ARE GHOST POSTING AGAIN!
A term you coined. Lol.
As for Scarredup5, he was trying to put BHT in major scar tissue and NEVER contacted the doc before excising the scar 8 months later.
That was his story posted on the forums.
We’ve been over this 100 times.
HOW CAN YOU SIT THERE ON YOU ARSE AND HONESTLY JUDGE HT CASES WITHOUT HEARING FROM THE DOC TOO?
You can’t bro.
That’s is absurd, IMO.
Have you ever even met these folks in person and examined their heads yourself???
Mr. Hearsay is in the house! Lol.
I’ve really tried to be objective lately and I have been going out of my way to keep Dr. Umar’s name out of my posts.
This debate should be about BHT in general, not favoring one clinic over another.
I’ve seen 10 well documented, growing BHT cases from Dr. U.'s clinic.
He presented six of them at the ISHRS meeting and was very well received.
Ciao.
HT,
Joke’s on me.
Well played, how you baited me to explain all that (yet again) on a thread that has nothing to do with Dr. Umar.
Please stay on point my friend.
Ciao.
These links to the forum archives are not working.
Please activate them in Dr. A’s post.
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard...d-48309-listing_type-search.html
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard...12-topic_id-52071-mode-full.html
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard...12-topic_id-30179-mode-full.html
Am looking into it right now…
» Dr. Arvind, I really wish to be able to just use body hair to fill up my
» hairline and temples and not touch my scalp but everyone here thinks
» this’s not a good idea. The thing is that I want to preserve my head
» hair as much as possible. Do you really think it will look odd if I use
» body hair ? I saw checkingin’s pics and I think they are very natural. I
» would never have guessed they are body hair.,
Dear Fastforward,
When using body hair its necessary to remember the growth cycles and their effect on the final transplant.
Hairline reconstruction should use a basic matrix/scaffolding of scalp hair filled in with suitable body hair.
There are many characteristics of the body hair that need to be studied on an individual basis, before proceeding.
I will need to see detailed pictures of recipient and donor before I can comment on your specific case.
Regards,
Dr. A
» And what I am saying here is this. We don’t know. BHT is unpredictable…
» that is it in a nutshell.
Dear Hairtech,
BHT is not unpredictable.
Its like doctors not formally trained in strip, claiming that hair transplants in general are unpredictable.
One should be aware of what one is facing when using body hair.
Get to know the body hair.
And one thing to forget first of all is the notion that the body donor hair is going to take on the scalp hair characteristics. A mere increase in length of the transplanted hair is not a change of characteristics.
Hair characteristics doesnt mean length alone.
Length, calibre, color, predisposition to greying and, most importantly, the growth cycles of the hair are some of the characteristics.
Growth cycles includes knowing %age hair in anagen, duration of telogen and/anagen.
Any attempts to understand BHT without learning about hair characteristics and their influence will confound and confuse.
Once, the readers clear 2 things in mind,
Till then, such statements only aid the untrained clinics to pass off any non growth as being due to some unknown fault of the body hair (when the fault may lie in their lack of knowledge and technique).
Regards,
Dr. A
Dear forum readers,
This concept of disintegration of the closely synchronised hair growth cycles with time is explained at the following link.
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_mesg-forum-12-topic_id-52200-mesg_id-52240.html&page=
It seems, for some reason, that the link is not working at this time.
Therefore, I have posted the text below for your perusal.
Dear SK,
When body hair, (from one area only), are transplanted after being preshaved 3-5 days in advance, the hair are likely to be closely synchronised in their growth phase. That is to say, that almost all of those hair will be in the growth phase at the time of extraction.
As a result, for the first couple of cycles, their growth phase may be closely synchronised.
However, that synchronicity will not continue. There are 2 factors that one has to keep in mind.
All the hair will not be in the same stage of growth phase. Some may have just entered the growth while others may just be about to finish the growth. Still others would be in different stages in between.
Even when extracting from the same area, for example, the chest, the haircycles for each hair will not be identical. Doctors tend to categorize these cycles in fixed # of days per area, but nature does not bother to see it the same way. The hair nearer the centre of the chest and those to the periphery will have slightly different duration of growth cycle. If the anagen for 1 hair is 140 days and another 130 and still another 150, then, even if they are harvested on exactly one same day of of their growth cycle (say, day 90), their cycles will still lose synchronisation.
This above is just when talking of one area. Now imagine when hair from different donor sites are mixed and transplanted, how much the growth cycles will differ.
All these factors will lead to an evental disintegration of the initial synchronicity.
That is what we have observed in patients.
Therefore the phrase, Disintegration of synchronicity with time.
Regards,
Dr. A
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=52071&mode=full&page=7
Now, let us look at everything with an unbiased view.
Let us, for the time being, forget that the body hair will take on the scalp hair characteristics.
Let us, on the other hand, think that each hair is endowed with its unique characteristics.
Seen in that context, most of the observations fall in place.
However, for ease of understanding, let us compare the terminal hair to plants. Trees, shrubs and bushes.
The scalp donor hair is like the evergreen tall trees.
The body hair can be compared to the deciduous shrubs and bushes. The more robust ones being the shrubs and the less robust ones being the bushes.
Now, if a bush is planted in a more fertile soil and additives are supplied to it to speed up its growth, it will become a bigger bush.
However, bushes will not become trees, no matter what the amount of fertilizers.
A tall shrub, given a better soil and more fertile conditions, may almost give the impression of a tree.
Looked from this perspective, the body hair after transplant seem to get a boost for various reasons. But they do not change their own unique characteristics.
Now, the next logical question that arises is, how does this hypothesis explain that some people get better results than others after a BHT.
That has to do with what that person’s body hair’s original characteristics were.
Now, let us examine the individual hair characteristics based on the observations.
In this context, I think it would be informative for the readers to read up this link too.
http://pub83.ezboard.com/fjefffsbeardboardfrm9.showMessage?topicID=99.topic
Calibre- I have yet to see any change in caliber of the transplanted body hair except in 2 patients. However, it would be safe to assume that there may be minimal change in caliber to the positive side over the years. I say this because that is what happens, often, to the body hair in their original location. With age, in many people, the body hair does grow thicker.
Colour and predeliction to graying – In our experience, there is no change in this aspect. Therefore, while performing body hair transplants its very important to keep this factor in mind. Some areas have predeliction to early greying compared to others. One wouldn’t want an island of dark hair growing in a sea of white hair or vice versa.
The speed of growth – The speed of growth will remain same. If boosters like Minoxidil are applied, there is possibility of some improvement in the speed of growth. However, that is not a universal thing. It may or may not happen.
The hair growth cycles – This is the single most important factor that must be kept in mind. The hair growth cycles do not change to a significant extent.
The hair growth cycles is a very important topic that has the single most important bearing on body hair transplants and I will like to discuss it at length later. For the present, going back to the example of plants, let me say that if the scalp donor hair be an evergreen tree, then the robust body hair can at best be a deciduous shrub. No amount of supplementation/fertilizers is going to change the deciduous to evergreen.
How does the hair growth cycles effect the planning and the outcome of the BHT procedures?
Dear forum readers,
Let me begin by saying that I disagree with some of the published studies about hair growth cycles.
Number 1
The duration of non growth phase, for example, has not been documented in detail.
The %age of hair that will be in anagen at any one time has also been mentioned in a very generalized manner.
The studies till 5 years back were looking at the body hair, much as we would at the scalp hair.
Therefore, different areas were categorized.
For the purposes of BHT, however, these categorisations are less than ideal.
The chest, for example, can not be considered one single area for purposes of studying the hair cycles.
The hair near the nipple and the hair near the periphery of the chest vary widely in many attributes.
Similarly, the chest hair will differ widely from one person to another. Much more widely than the scalp hair will.
The only sure thing that we can assume is that hair growth cycles will differ for each hair.
Let us take these studies as offering a very basic outline. Not to be relied upon when one goes down to the individual patient.
However, the documented hair growth cycles give, atleast, a basic idea of the differences between the scalp and the body hair. For that, let us be thankful.
Number 2.
It is too often assumed that the body hair will necessarily shed in the telogen phase.
If that were so, then we would never need to perform preshaving to get rid of the non growing hair.
Going into the non growth phase does not necessarily mean that the hair will be shed
It may or it may not.
Till it sheds, the nongrowing hair will provide coverage.
Number 3.
The %age of body hair that will go into telogen!
Is that determined by the area in which they are located (or, the recipient area, in bht)?
Is there a signalling system that tells the body hair to grow only in a certain %age at a time?
Again, based on our experiences, I tend to disagree.
Rather, it is more likely that each hair has its own hair cycle that it follows. The hair cycles of body hair located closely, for example, near the wrist v/s near the elbow, are still going to be slightly different.
As a result, when body hair are transplanted after preshaving
Regards,
Dr. A
Dear forum readers,
These threads show the results over the past years for new readers. Everything is out there in open for individual analysis. We pride ourselves on being the most transparent clinic, sharing all we can.
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-30179-mode-full-page-6.html
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-48309-mode-full-page-6.html
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-52071-mode-full.html
We have followed up various cases of BHTs performed at our clinic.
Following is a picture of one such patient.
The patient volunteered for transplanting scalp hair in an identifiable area on the crown using black hair from the scalp donor area almost 3 years ago.
Thereafter, he underwent another test session. This time using the black body donor hair (2.5 years ago).
The blue arrow points to the transplanted scalp donor hair.
The yellow arrow points to the transplanted body donor hair.
The after picture (left), was taken 1 year after the BHT.
We have been following this patient’s progress closely for over 2 years since his bht.
The hair have grown (the scalp as well as the body donor hair).
There is a cyclical variation in the amount of coverage that the body hair provide. The body donor hair have grown longer than in their original location, but not as long as the scalp donor hair.
The color of the transplanted hair has not changed.
More details later.
A few conclusions till now.
Body hair is a valuable additonal donor available to patients.
Patients who have good, robust body hair are, of course, the prime beneficiaries.
Even for other patients, FUSE/fue techniques are continuously improving to open up more sources of donor hair. Facial hair, for example.
It is a given that the HT doctor will have to individually analyse each case and use the available donor to best effect.
Just as they would for people with different scalp hair characteristics.
(A person with thick calibre, curly scalp hair will get better coverage than one with thin calibre straight scalp hair. Similar principles will apply when the body hair are used - alone or in conjunction with scalp hair).
Regards,
Dr. A
Following are some pictures of forum poster fueoptions. Incidentally, he was the first patient ever to have fue grafts extracted and placed in the scalp in Feb 2006 at our clinic.
Relevant threads detailing some of fueoption’s procedures are available at
http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/60-fueoptions
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-47318-mode-full.html
Click here if link does not work
1_file3.pdf
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard-az-show_topic-forum-12-topic_id-48440-mode-full.html
Click here if link does not work:
1_file4.pdf
Fueoptions keeps a buzz cut. He had beard/facial, pubic, armpit hair transplated in the crown and thefront - top areas of the scalp.
Beard hair were also transplanted into the scalp donor area where larger gaps had been left (by fue performed at certain other clinics).
Nov 2007 pictures
Regards,
Dr. A
Dear forum readers,
Following are pictures of another patient.
He wears his hair long.
100 beard hair grafts were transplanted in the front - top area.
Beard hair, transplanted correctly, does not look conspicous if the hair are grown longer or if the hair are buzz cut.
Nevertheless, if the hair are left 1 cm long, and you know what to look for, you can see them.
The following pictures explain the text.
Beard donor area pictures 1 year after extractions
Regards,
Dr. A
» Dear forum readers,
» Following are pictures of another patient.
»
» He wears his hair long.
»
» 100 beard hair grafts were transplanted in the front - top area.
»
» Beard hair, transplanted correctly, does not look conspicous if the hair
» are grown longer or if the hair are buzz cut.
»
» Nevertheless, if the hair are left 1 cm long, and you know what to look
» for, you can see them.
»
» The following pictures explain the text.
»
»
» Regards,
» Dr. A
Dr A, can you show where the beard hair were placed exactly in the pic? How long is his hair 1-2 inches?
“Beard hair, transplanted correctly, does not look conspicous if the hair
are grown longer or if the hair are buzz cut.” No one said the hair would never grow. One just has to ask themselves if they want this hair on their head. If left isolated and this can happen with further loss. It will stick out . That was seen before. The doc took it with strip that is bad enough but the planting should be no different as far as angling these hairs correctly. Dr. Beehmer as far as I know has been doing succsessful strip for years. But it is strip nothing new with that. I hope these patients are being shown what hundreds of beard hair look like on patients before there surgery’s.
I have a question and anyone besides the doctor who might have any knowledge is welcome to respond also. Its an established fact that DHT has no detrimental affects on body hair, in fact quite the opposite. Given this fact, will body hair retain this property once its transplanted to the scalp? If it does then, thats something very amazing, if not, has it been proven that body hair will fall victim to DHT once it is on the scalp? I have limited knowledge, but it seems like an intriguing question to ask.
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