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Any suggestions for my next Folica experiment?


#1

Okay Benji, Baccy, and everyone else watching us . . . I’m listening to suggestions about what I should try next.

– Topical? Internal? Combinations of the two?

– EGF-R?

– WNT?

– No washing (not even water) during the healing?

– Waiting periods after wounding?

I’m ready to kick around ideas for anything to try right now.

The only major thing I’m ruling out entirely is that I won’t try a whole bunch of variables at the same time. No “kitchen sink” attempts that don’t teach us anything when they don’t work.

(And I also don’t want to start trying to substitute a lot of cheaper/natural/other drugs in place of the expensive unnatural pharmaceuticals right now. That step can wait until after we nail down exactly how to do this regrowth scheme in the first place.)


#2

Maybe some mechanism of inhibiting wnt for a period of time as well as inhibiting EGF? For time period ideas you could have a look at the relevant section of the patent.


#3

Temovate cream. It is a very strong corticosteroids, which is in the patent.

Two things. EGFR controls the inflammation in the skin. EGFR inhibitors can lead the sebaceous glands connected to hair follicles to increase production of inflammatory mediators. Also, the immune systems will attack the newly formed hair follicle as posters have discussed already. Temovate cream will decrease the inflammation and suppress the immune system.

I would also be on finasteride to reduce DHT. It is my theory that these doing these two things will create a better environment for a new follicle to form. My next attempt will involve Temovate cream.


#4

» Maybe some mechanism of inhibiting wnt for a period of time as well as
» inhibiting EGF? For time period ideas you could have a look at the relevant
» section of the patent.

I second this, I’ve this Theory for a while now, I think we need to check it.

Other trials that might be interesting : -(wounding+Wnt activation).
-(Wounding+EGFR inhibition).
-(EGFR inhibition+WNT activation).
-(WNT antagonist+Wnt agonist).


#5

» Okay Benji, Baccy, and everyone else watching us . . . I’m listening to
» suggestions about what I should try next.

It would be most interesting if you could replicate Baccy’s first successful experiment, perhaps changing one variable slightly. To me it seems like a logical first step in refining the method. Anything radically dfferent is, as you say, analogous to the “kitchen-sink” approach which doesn’t really give us a lot of information in most cases.

/p


#6

» Okay Benji, Baccy, and everyone else watching us . . . I’m listening to
» suggestions about what I should try next.
»
» – Topical? Internal? Combinations of the two?
» – EGF-R?
» – WNT?
» – No washing (not even water) during the healing?
» – Waiting periods after wounding?

Pre-depilation prior to wounding seems to be one thing that many
(apparently as a result of information one of the patents) have
suggested may be a factor in producing an improvement. I think Baccy
is trying that in his current experiment. It seems like it might be
worth considering/evaluating for a possible step.

Also, I’ve noticed (not sure it’s significant) that one of the
articles I read on Follica seemed to suggest that they’re aiming
for a purely topical treatment. I’m not sure if this is
for all of the compounds which would be used and whether the only
reason for this is that they’re hoping that this will reduce regulatory
approval requirements, or whether possibly this is actually the method
that they’ve found is producing the best results with whatever
compounds they are using. It did seem interesting, though.

Not sure anything the execs might slip to the press would provide
very great insight into the actual work is going on (could even
be misleading) but it does seem to be a small organization and
likely that people inside are pretty familiar with what’s going
on.

The comment that wounding does not necessarily involve dermabrasion
(I believe that I recall that as well from one of the articles)
seemed interesting as well. What could this possibly mean?
Cell damage by bruising with point pressure? Some type of
needle or lancet use? Flash freezing of a thin layer? Laser
dermabrasion or just perhaps–induction of an internal disruption
at a sub-surface level by focusing the laser in much the same
way as radiation therapy is used without damaging other layers?
Or even determining a way to signal the required activity without
actual wounding?


#7

» The comment that wounding does not necessarily involve dermabrasion
» (I believe that I recall that as well from one of the articles)
» seemed interesting as well. What could this possibly mean?
» Cell damage by bruising with point pressure? Some type of
» needle or lancet use? Flash freezing of a thin layer? Laser
» dermabrasion or just perhaps–induction of an internal disruption
» at a sub-surface level by focusing the laser in much the same
» way as radiation therapy is used without damaging other layers?
» Or even determining a way to signal the required activity without
» actual wounding?

I also read the article where is says wounding doesn’t necessarily involve dermabration.

IIRC in some of the mouse experiments they used a couple of diferent methods to disrupt the skin, from a felt wheel to incisional wounds.

Dr. Anderson who is on follicas team is an expert with medical lasers.

Taken from the kit patent:

The state of reepithelialization can be induced. Methods of inducing this state include the disruption of the subject’s skin at the location where the compounds of the invention are going to be administered. Disruption can be achieved through abrasion (e.g., the rubbing or wearing away of skin), or through any method that results in disturbing the intactness of the epidermis or epidermal layer including burning (e.g., by inducing a sunburn) or perforating the epidermis or epidermal -layer: The disruption can either result in partial or complete removal of the epidermal layer at the intended location.

The disruption of the epithelial layer can be accomplished, for example, through mechanical, chemical, electromagnetic, electrical, or magnetic means. Mechanical means can be achieved through the use of, for example, sandpaper, a felt wheel, ultrasound, supersonically accelerated mixture of saline and oxygen, tape-stripping, or peels.

Chemical means of disruption of the epidermis can be achieved, for example, using phenol, trichloracetic acid, or ascorbic acid.

Electromagnetic means of disruption of the epidermis can be achieved, for example, by the use of a laser capable of inducing trans-epithelial injury (e.g., a Fraxel laser, a CO2 laser, or an excimer laser). Disruption can also be achieved through, for example, the use of visible, infrared, ultraviolet, radio, or X-ray irradiation.

Electrical or magnetic means of disruption of the epidermis can be achieved, for example, through the application of an electrical current or through electroporation. Electric or magnetic means can also include the induction of an electric or a magnetic field. For example, an electrical current

can be induced in the skin by application of an alternating magnetic field. A radiofrequency power source can be coupled to a conducting element, and the currents that are induced will heat the skin, resulting in an alteration or disruption of the skin. In this embodiment, no external energy transfer is needed in order to cause a disruption

Any of the previously mentioned means of disruption can be used to induce for example, a burn, excision, or microdermabrasion.
Optionally, the skin, following the epidermal disruption, is not contacted for a period of time with any substance (e.g., ointment, a bandage, or a device) that is normally administered to an abrasion or wound to prevent infection.


#8

I’m not an expert ,just my two cent :

» – Topical? Internal? Combinations of the two?

I’ll go topical gefitinib at medium-high % (5% or above) and nothing else.
In this way :
1)we limit variables
2)no side and we can eliminate the issue about sufficient skin concentration of compound (even if oral drugs imho should done the works too …)

» – EGF-R?
yes
» – WNT?
no ( i mean ,during this attempt ! )

» – No washing (not even water) during the healing?
i don’t think simply washing can drop the process but i don’t know…so why take the risk ?

( i mean … if this isn’t a trouble for who try … i.e. social life or whatever )

» – Waiting periods after wounding?
Follow Taghol posts.

» The only major thing I’m ruling out entirely is that I won’t try a whole
» bunch of variables at the same time. No “kitchen sink” attempts that don’t
» teach us anything when they don’t work.
Agree.

» (And I also don’t want to start trying to substitute a lot of
» cheaper/natural/other drugs in place of the expensive unnatural
» pharmaceuticals right now. That step can wait until after we nail down
» exactly how to do this regrowth scheme in the first place.)

this is very important point imho ; totally agree, go with unnatural and,
if topical, go with medium high concetration .

No pre-depilation also ( confuse results ).

I’m agree with benji, seems very very difficult without professional help…
so we should think only to achieve some new hair… but with a clear process.

edit :
little note about the issue of topical gefitinib.

I’ve found a patent which suppose the use of topical egfr-inhibitor to limitate
side effects of topical retinoid…there aren’t important pratical stuff in the document (from what i can read), also i don’t have idea if some company still continue development of such product… but this should prove that is quite possibile to do.

edit2:
sorry i’ve missed the immune-system issue.
We need to drop out that, so tacrolimus is indicated (but you can also
use corticost. or whatever or both.

1)Topical always and
2)also starting some days before wounding.

but 2 is really IMHO … i don’t know if this could be safe.


#9

» Okay Benji, Baccy, and everyone else watching us . . . I’m listening to
» suggestions about what I should try next.
»
» – Topical? Internal? Combinations of the two?
»
» – EGF-R?
»
» – WNT?
»
» – No washing (not even water) during the healing?
»
» – Waiting periods after wounding?
»
»
»
» I’m ready to kick around ideas for anything to try right now.
»
» The only major thing I’m ruling out entirely is that I won’t try a whole
» bunch of variables at the same time. No “kitchen sink” attempts that don’t
» teach us anything when they don’t work.
»
» (And I also don’t want to start trying to substitute a lot of
» cheaper/natural/other drugs in place of the expensive unnatural
» pharmaceuticals right now. That step can wait until after we nail down
» exactly how to do this regrowth scheme in the first place.)

Perhaps someone should try to recreate the cancer patient results through Gefitinib (or similar), wounding and immunosuppression.


#10

TheOne,
is there some way(or method) to achieve disruption without shaving of head


#11

» TheOne,
» is there some way(or method) to achieve disruption without shaving of head

I suspect there are probably ways involving more advanced methods than we’re likely to easily produce, but there is at least this method which has been around for a while:

Needling (diabetic lancets, such as a 30 gauge lancet) has been discussed, as well as a device called a “dermaroller” which essentially does this more efficiently. I’ve not seen many people advocating these based on results yet, but perhaps this is something which could be tested further. I’m not sure what the likelihood of this being effective is, but maybe someone can comment on that.

Also very light chemical or enzymatic abrasions (such as scalp renew) might not affect existing hair much, but again whether or not this could be effective seems to remain in doubt.

One thing that may affect whether or not such an unobtrusive procedure could be effective is to what extent pre-depilation affects the results of the procedure.


#12

FUUUUUCCCKKKK!!!

I just had a HUGE elaborate response to you all typed up, and the no-login thing on the site made me lose it when I tried to post it.

I’ll re-post it a little later. That just worked up way too much frustration in me to re-type it all right now.


#13

» FUUUUUCCCKKKK!!!
»
»
» I just had a HUGE elaborate response to you all typed up, and the no-login
» thing on the site made me lose it when I tried to post it.
»
» I’ll re-post it a little later. That just worked up way too much
» frustration in me to re-type it all right now.

I hear you, It has happened to me a few times on this site now :expressionless:

Im using the ie8 beta at the moment and its not helping, its quite buggy.
Sometimes when Im writing a post, ill hit return for a new line and it will submit the post so I have to do a whole lot of editing. :angry:


#14

» I just had a HUGE elaborate response to you all typed up, and the no-login
» thing on the site made me lose it when I tried to post it.
»
» I’ll re-post it a little later. That just worked up way too much
» frustration in me to re-type it all right now.

Been there, done that :slight_smile:

Several times I’ve pressed the Submit button after a long thought out response only to find the authentication has expired. Now I usually use a text editor and cut an paste later, seems to help avoid the problem…

Anyway, looking forward to your insights, as I’m sure a lot of others are too.


#15

Personally, I’m going to re-read the patent and inhibit wnt before promoting it.


#16

» Perhaps someone should try to recreate the cancer patient results through
» Gefitinib (or similar), wounding and immunosuppression.

I second that, but I suggest it be getfitnib or the others mentioned in the patent and cyclo (topical). Do not take it internally. I would still try to boost wnt with lithium. I think baccy got it covered by trying to inhibiting it first and boosting later in his next attempt.


#17

» » Perhaps someone should try to recreate the cancer patient results
» through
» » Gefitinib (or similar), wounding and immunosuppression.
»
» I second that, but I suggest it be getfitnib or the others mentioned in
» the patent and cyclo (topical). Do not take it internally.

topical cyclo is not useful because the lack of penetration (even if i 've read about some derivated are quite effective but i don’t remember)

I think we have to go with tacrolimus or other.


#18

» » » Perhaps someone should try to recreate the cancer patient results
» » through
» » » Gefitinib (or similar), wounding and immunosuppression.
» »
» » I second that, but I suggest it be getfitnib or the others mentioned in
» » the patent and cyclo (topical). Do not take it internally.
»
» topical cyclo is not useful because the lack of penetration (even if i 've
» read about some derivated are quite effective but i don’t remember)
»
» I think we have to go with tacrolimus or other.

That is why I mention Restasis in another thread. Is tacrolimus mentioned in the patent??? It’s worth a try if it is.


#19

» » » » Perhaps someone should try to recreate the cancer patient results
» » » through
» » » » Gefitinib (or similar), wounding and immunosuppression.
» » »
» » » I second that, but I suggest it be getfitnib or the others mentioned
» in
» » » the patent and cyclo (topical). Do not take it internally.
» »
» » topical cyclo is not useful because the lack of penetration (even if i
» 've
» » read about some derivated are quite effective but i don’t remember)
» »
» » I think we have to go with tacrolimus or other.
»
» That is why I mention Restasis in another thread. Is tacrolimus mentioned
» in the patent??? It’s worth a try if it is.

yes it is. This might be helpfull when looking for alternative drugs

http://tressless.com/2008/08/13/follica-raises-11mil-reveals-secret-11-herbs-and-spices/


#20

» » » » » Perhaps someone should try to recreate the cancer patient results
» » » » through
» » » » » Gefitinib (or similar), wounding and immunosuppression.
» » » »
» » » » I second that, but I suggest it be getfitnib or the others
» mentioned
» » in
» » » » the patent and cyclo (topical). Do not take it internally.
» » »
» » » topical cyclo is not useful because the lack of penetration (even if
» i
» » 've
» » » read about some derivated are quite effective but i don’t remember)
» » »
» » » I think we have to go with tacrolimus or other.
» »
» » That is why I mention Restasis in another thread. Is tacrolimus
» mentioned
» » in the patent??? It’s worth a try if it is.
»
» yes it is. This might be helpfull when looking for alternative drugs
»
» http://tressless.com/2008/08/13/follica-raises-11mil-reveals-secret-11-herbs-and-spices/

sure it is in the patent… about restasis i think is not enough for skin
but we should wait for some confirm.