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» Does the patent require topical application of gefitinib or oral ingestion?
The patent focuses on topical application, but it does mention oral administration as an alternative.
BTW, gefitinib is only one of several drugs mentioned in the patent. What you want to do is inhibit epidermal growth factor (EGF) – several drugs are on the market that do this…gefitinib happens to be one of them.
» Damnit nix
Nix was kind enough to post that source, but I had already found that website even before I asked him which site he was referring to. Of course, the day after I placed the order, another site agreed to sell it to me cheaper - $350 for 30 tabs…oh well.
Mr. Frodo -
Those Gentifib issues are a bunch of systemic problems with long-term oral use. We’re talking short-term topical use for hair.
TAGOHL -
Yeah, I know Leflunomide isn’t without issues if taken orally. I’ve read about the sides, the need to use activated charcoal or something to kick the stuff out of the body as soon as you want it gone, etc.
I just prefer temporary Leflunomide side effects over the long-term side effects of being bald, ya know what I mean? I’d give myself two weeks of the shiits or stomach aches or anything else I have to do if it’ll regrow real hair right now and not 5 years from now.
But if this Gentifib source is legit then $375 for the cream of the crop sounds like a better idea (Even ghetto overseas Leflunomide still isn’t VERY cheap).
Or even do some of both oral Leflu & topical Genti? We have no real dosage & topical mixture information on this stuff yet. And the patents don’t give any specifics beyond that “some conbination of” wording. Can we go wrong with too much EGF-R inhibition?
Can you get either of the following?
J Am Acad Dermatol. 2008 Apr;58(4):642-3.
Epidermal growth factor receptor inhibitors and hair.
Heymann WR.
PMID: 18342710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
An unusual terminal hair growth on the nose tip associated with gefitinib therapy.
Br J Dermatol. 2007 May;156(5):1087-8.
PMID: 17388923 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I also prefer oral over topical, and 10 days isn’t that long.
I’m not sure about combining leflunomide with gefitinib. I think gefitinib alone (either orally or topically) would probably be plenty. Leflunomide by itself may also be an option. The patent indicates the topical can have multiple drugs (EGF inhibitor, minox, finasteride, etc.), but IIRC, only one of the EGF inhibitors is used.
» Can you get either of the following?
»
» J Am Acad Dermatol. 2008 Apr;58(4):642-3.
»
» Epidermal growth factor receptor inhibitors and hair.
»
» Heymann WR.
»
» PMID: 18342710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
»
link > http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a d.com/en/file/70534/EpGrowthFacReceptorInhibitors-and-hair-pdf.html
» » Can you get either of the following?
» »
» » J Am Acad Dermatol. 2008 Apr;58(4):642-3.
» »
» » Epidermal growth factor receptor inhibitors and hair.
» »
» » Heymann WR.
» »
» » PMID: 18342710 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
» »
»
»
» link > http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a
» d.com/en/file/70534/EpGrowthFacReceptorInhibitors-and-hair-pdf.html
It looks like the effects of Gefitinib conflict with Follica’s patent. Unless the action of the drug radically alters with the introduction of epidermal wounding.
» » Damnit nix
»
» Nix was kind enough to post that source, but I had already found that
» website even before I asked him which site he was referring to. Of course,
» the day after I placed the order, another site agreed to sell it to me
» cheaper - $350 for 30 tabs…oh well.
thank you very much TAGHOL, I will be looking into this. Ive stated to others online that if they are thinking about trying a spot of the procedure, they might as well and try to cop the procedure as closely as possible…and for that they’d need what follica is using as much as possible.
N/T
I can’t imagine needing a whole batch of 30 Gentifib pills just for experimenting with a home-brewed topical on some test patches.
You guys with the $375 Gentifib bottles - Anybody wanna sell me a few of your pills thru the mail or something?
» » Can you get either of the following?
» »
» An unusual terminal hair growth on the nose tip associated with gefitinib
» therapy.
»
» Br J Dermatol. 2007 May;156(5):1087-8.
»
» PMID: 17388923 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
» »
link > http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a d.com/en/file/70629/AnUnusTermHairGrowOnTheNosTipAssoWithGefitinibTher-pdf.html
» » Benji, to point this out again:
» »
» » Leflunomide has the EGF-R properties
»
» This is an ancillary property of the drug.
»
» » That suggests to me that continuing the EGF-R blocking after the
» critical
» » period might do more harm than good for new hairs.
»
» Hair loss isn’t a complaint with long-term gefitinib use, but it is with
» leflunomide, which means the hair loss isn’t likely the result of blockade
» of the EGFR (otherwise, both drugs would cause hair loss).
Good point. I did a bit of reading on lefluonomide and got the impression that it was a pretty messy drug - effecting a lot of different processes and thus giving it a rather high side effect profile.
» » 1. Do you know how Leflunomide might compare to Gentifib in the
» critical
» » EGF-R issue?
»
» It’s not likely to be as good, IMO. Also, leflunomide is a dirty drug in
» the sense that it does a lot more than interfere with the EGF pathway. So,
» while you may get some EGF antagonism, you are getting other stuff that you
» may not want. A couple of other downsides: leflunomide is a pro-drug (which
» means in order for it to work, it needs to be converted to its active
» form…which may or may not happen if it’s used topically), and it has a
» very long half-life after oral use (meaning you’ll still be getting its
» effects for a long while after stopping the drug).
Ah…you pretty much said all that already 
» » 2. Have we ever decided what Loniten & Minox & the antihistamine are
» » bringing to the table? Anything major?
»
» According to the patent, minoxidil enhances follicular neogenesis after
» wounding.
Wow - that hair growth on the tip of the nose is kinda scary when you actually see it! I was expecting something a lot smaller. Instead it looks like a full-on 5 o clock shadow over the nose. Its possible that something less dramatic is going on with a lot of peeople but they arent making the connection.
At any rate EGF is only harmful to hair follicle formation in a short critical period. Constant use of EGFR inhibitors seems to lead to slower scalp hair growth as mentioned here.
hh
» Benji, to point this out again:
»
» Leflunomide has the EGF-R properties that we’re hoping will grow hairs.
» But the much more common complaint from Leflunomide patients has been from
» hair LOSS than gain (at least after several weeks or months on the drug). I’d only be on the Arava for about 10 days, tops
» That suggests to me that continuing the EGF-R blocking after the critical
» period might do more harm than good for new hairs. Either that or else
» Folica missed something BIG about the whole process. Yes, hence why I’d only want to be on it for about ten days…about day three after the wounding until day thirteen after the wounding. Hair germs were detected seven days post wounding in the human skin example in the patent…this would be that plus about five or six days, enough for the germs to really develop
» » I think just that issue alone could help explain some of the imperfect
» hair growth we see on the Gentifib patient’s head in the pics. (But look
» at his density- NOT BAD to my eyes. If that new hair was thicker-shafted
» and longer it might look quite good. This isn’t the kind of weak
» scattering of grafts that we’ve trained ourselves to expect from previous
» HM efforts.)
»
»
»
»
»
» As for the drugs, I’m wondering two things:
»
» 1. Do you know how Leflunomide might compare to Gentifib in the critical
» EGF-R issue? They both inhibit epidermal growth factor, I’d have to read up if this is done via tyrosine kinease activity with one of them or not, arava is an arthritis medication and getfitinib is for cancers if I remember correctly, so they obviously do other things…I know Gentifib looks like the better shot for skin Probably, its mentioned earlier in the patent paragraph that goes into this, but there were several other drugs mentioned also for egf-blockage…
» absorption, but what about orally? If I wanna mess with this now then
» could I just use oral Arava and skip the Gentifib?
»
» 2. Have we ever decided what Loniten & Minox & the antihistamine are
» bringing to the table? Anything major? Loniten and minox are the same thing. They were used in one of the experimental examples and found to enhance the hair growth. Loniten is simply pill form minox…to be honest, if you used quite a bit of minox on the head, but above and below the treated area, some of it would affect the treated area. I wouldn’t want to risk propylene glycol and alcohol on the wound. If I end up bothering with this, I only want to do it once. Make no mistake, dermabrading your scalp would probably hurt for several days as that is very sensitive skin (the head).
The anti-histamine is in the patent as an adjunctive. Other than just being an anti-inflammatory, I dont know why its in there, maybe they are just throwing everything they think could help at it…who knows…but it is something in the patent people could add at home that takes no prescript…
Ive got a feeling the egf-inhibition, the anti-androgen, the minox, and the lithium would be more than enough though…
» I emailed Dr. Burt (the one who wrote the article) and following is his
» response.
»
» “The patient maintained his hair up until death. The quality of the
» hair was finer and more like baby hair. He was able to go to his
» daughter’s wedding with his new hair. Hair growth with EGFR receptor
» inhibitors is common but is often in unwanted areas. I have 2 patients
» whose eyelash growth on erlotinib is so intense they have to keep trimming
» them. Facial hair in women is a problem. As far as I am aware Astra Zeneca
» have not taken this side effect further. Gefitinib failed to get a license
» in the UK for treating non small cell lung cancer having had a set of
» adverse trial results which dramatically affected AZ’s share price. It has
» been superceeded by erlotinib manufactured by Roche.”
Few more answers from Dr. Burt:
» Ive got a feeling the egf-inhibition, the anti-androgen, the minox, and
» the lithium would be more than enough though…
Now i’m a little bit concerned about the hair quality though, Dr.Burt said the new hair had baby texture - probably thin & silky. However, he did retain his hair without DHT inhibitors, so that’s a plus!
» Now i’m a little bit concerned about the hair quality though, Dr.Burt said
» the new hair had baby texture - probably thin & silky.
It didn’t look too thin from an observer’s viewpoint, but I suspect the silky texture etc. could have resulted from continued use of the gefitinib (changes in existing hair texture/characterisics are a known side-effect of this class of drugs). Of course, Follica’s protocol would use gefitinib for just long enough for the new hair follicle to start to form. In other words, maybe Follica’s protocol avoids this (although I certainly wouldn’t complain too much otherwise – it’s a minor detail overall).
However, he did retain his hair without DHT inhibitors, so that’s a plus!
Wouldn’t it be crazy if creating hair follicles in a high androgenic environment actually makes the new follicles enjoy androgens…just like body hair, which thrive on androgens.
N/T
»» An unusual terminal hair growth on the nose tip associated with gefitinib
»» therapy.
»»
»» Br J Dermatol. 2007 May;156(5):1087-8.
»»
»» PMID: 17388923 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
»»
»»
» link > http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a
» d.com/en/file/70629/AnUnusTermHairGrowOnTheNosTipAssoWithGefitinibTher-pdf.html
Wow, talk about terminal hair growth in a strange place. I thought it would be just one or two follicles, not tons of them.
Thanks for posting all these papers.
» » » Can you get either of the following?
» » »
» » An unusual terminal hair growth on the nose tip associated with
» gefitinib
» » therapy.
» »
» » Br J Dermatol. 2007 May;156(5):1087-8.
» »
» » PMID: 17388923 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
» » »
»
» link > http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a
» d.com/en/file/70629/AnUnusTermHairGrowOnTheNosTipAssoWithGefitinibTher-pdf.html
I have a request, next time can you put the link without spaces between? It’s driving me crazy having to piece them together, thanks.
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