Another example - Follica may actually work!

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
21

» For a drug, the density of regrowth is impressive.
»
» I’ve been staring at a bottle of gefitinib for about the past 10 days, not
» yet having cracked the seal. It seems too good to be true. I’m a believer
» and a non-believer at the same time. We shall see.

The seal should be cracked. Lol. Where did you find some at if you don’t mind me asking?

22

» I’ve been staring at a bottle of gefitinib for about the past 10 days, not
» yet having cracked the seal. It seems too good to be true. I’m a believer
» and a non-believer at the same time. We shall see.

I highly doubt it was just gefitinib that caused hair growth, there must have been some other factor - possibly part of that guy’s routine i.e. eating something, shaving head or what not - that contributed significantly to hair growth. If it was just gefitinib then we would have heard about a lot of similar cases.

I really liked the way author wrote “…he is still on gefitinib and enjoying his new appearance.” - hell yeah he is!

23

Maybe he was shaving his bald areas. That would be my strongest guess. And maybe some other medication amped-up the effect (immunosuppression meds of some other sort?)

Well, regardless of what else he was doing, I think it’s still a pretty safe bet he didn’t follow all of Folica’s complicated instructions just right.

And something grew anyway. Something that looks a lot better than the BHTs that some guys have paid so much for.

More observations:

– The new hair’s differences between the rest of his old hair look like at least partially just the result of being younger in nature. The new hairs look thicker. They also look darker in color, but I’m not sure that the darker issue is truly a shade difference. In this case I think it may just be the absence of any greys in the new growth.

– This guy may not have even been on any DHT inhibitors at the time he grew this. Potentially yet another good sign.

– It also occurs to me that the continuation of the Gentifib AFTER the formation of any given hair follicle is probably a bad thing rather than a good one. (Leflunomide has actually caused complaints of hurting hair growth after several weeks/months.) His results might look better still if the Gentifib wasn’t being continued after a given hair was formed.

24

Cheers goata, I did not notice that it pasted only the first page and not the rest of it where it actuall talks about the hair

Whats interesting that it says that only 1 guy out of 1331 had this hairy sideeffect.

He must have done something differently.

25

» For a drug, the density of regrowth is impressive.
»
» I’ve been staring at a bottle of gefitinib for about the past 10 days, not
» yet having cracked the seal. It seems too good to be true. I’m a believer
» and a non-believer at the same time. We shall see.

I haven’t been able to find it anywhere without a doc’s prescript…

I have found Arava online supposedly without a prescript (if the site is legit).

To me, the biggest issue for “mainstreaming” follica someday (if it works in humans) for them is the fact that if it works like the patent suggests…it really could be pretty easily replicated at home. All the necessary drugs can be taken orally (dutas, getifitinib, loniten, anti-histamine, lithium salts), so basically its depilate, wound on day three, start taking internals on day six, quit on day 16, dont use an anti-infective on the wound during healing…that is about it.

TAGOHL, Ive also though that in the months leading up to “doing the procedure”, one might use substances on the scalp that have been shown to decrease androgen-receptor expression in human cells (curcumoids, black tea flavoniods, fluridil, etc.) in hopes that the treated area might have less androgen receptor expression when it “remakes itself”. Fluridil is actually in parts of the patent as is flutamide----I HOPE that if it works, that SOMEDAY “they” (its always “they” when referencing future scientific advances isn’t it?) will be able to block certain genes during the process in which this hair is created and perhaps it wont have any tendencey to be MPB hair at all…

I dont want to be excited about Follica out of the “hope/desperation” we saw people on this board be excited about Gho/Bazan/Washenik/Neosil/Kemp etc., but in reality…I cannot see any other way to “make” new hair from scratch other than HM, or either Follica or ACELL. Nothing else, other than perhaps creating tissue matrices where HM cells can be grown into fully differentiated hairs outside the body, that I can envision would create real “new” hair. If this does not work, and ACELL doesn’t work…I dont think anything ever will and men will simply be looking for ways to re-enlarge miniaturized hair (which I think wont work in vivo because long-miniaturized hair loses CD200 immuno-markers over time, and thus loses its autoimmune priveleges in any mammal with an immune system, and we aren’t SCID mice)…henceforth I “hope” either Follica or ACELL works.

26

» I’m not sure what to make of the hair difference.
»
» But it is relevant that this patient grew this hair cold turkey - no
» depilation 3 days before, no wounding whatsoever(!), no 5-day wait between
» injury and the beginning of EGF-R inhibition, no stoppage of the EGF-R
» inhibition after 7-10 days.
»
» I think if the hair can be grown like this with so many of the factors
» totally missing . . . good sign. Very good sign, at least for the idea of
» getting any growth at all.
»
»
»
» Another thing that looks good: The hair isn’t white.

as debris has pointed out, this is the only guy that grew hair…i wonder if he might have shampooed his head a little harshly, or wore a hat that was a bit tight, or used a harsh shampoo up there, or was scratching his head (maybe he has dandruff) or anything that could have irritated the dermis and set this process off…the hair created looks a bit like very robust body hair if you look closely…

the good news is this: just imagine if he was on an anti-androgen, minoxidil, an anti-histamine, and used lithium while the hair was being “made”, it might be even thicker and the hairs even larger…

27

Benji, to point this out again:

Leflunomide has the EGF-R properties that we’re hoping will grow hairs. But the much more common complaint from Leflunomide patients has been from hair LOSS than gain (at least after several weeks or months on the drug). That suggests to me that continuing the EGF-R blocking after the critical period might do more harm than good for new hairs. Either that or else Folica missed something BIG about the whole process.

I think just that issue alone could help explain some of the imperfect hair growth we see on the Gentifib patient’s head in the pics. (But look at his density- NOT BAD to my eyes. If that new hair was thicker-shafted and longer it might look quite good. This isn’t the kind of weak scattering of grafts that we’ve trained ourselves to expect from previous HM efforts.)

As for the drugs, I’m wondering two things:

  1. Do you know how Leflunomide might compare to Gentifib in the critical EGF-R issue? I know Gentifib looks like the better shot for skin absorption, but what about orally? If I wanna mess with this now then could I just use oral Arava and skip the Gentifib?

  2. Have we ever decided what Loniten & Minox & the antihistamine are bringing to the table? Anything major?

28

(bump)

29

I find this article interesting " Nonscarring inflammatory alopecia associated with the epidermal growth factor receptor inhibitor gefitinib "

Published (August 2006) in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology.

link to this article > http://r a p i d s h a r e.com/files/123296392/the_epidermal_growth_factor_receptor_inhibitor_gefitinib.pdf.html

or

http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a d.com/en/file/70473/the-epidermal-growth-factor-receptor-inhibitor-gefitinib-pdf.html

( pls remove spaces )

30

Dear risc,

Would you please upload the studies in another filesharing site as Rapidshare is blocked for many of board members (including myself).
I still didt not see the entire gefitnib study.

Best Regards.

31

I find this article interesting " Nonscarring inflammatory alopecia associated with the epidermal growth factor receptor inhibitor gefitinib "

Published (August 2006) in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology.

link to this article > http://r a p i d s h a r e.com/files/123296392/the_epidermal_growth_factor_receptor_inhibitor_gefitinib.pdf.html

or

http://www.m e g a f i l e u p l o a d.com/en/file/70473/the-epidermal-growth-factor-receptor-inhibitor-gefitinib-pdf.html

( pls remove spaces )

32

risc, Thank you so much.

33

I emailed Dr. Burt (the one who wrote the article) and following is his response.

“The patient maintained his hair up until death. The quality of the hair was finer and more like baby hair. He was able to go to his daughter’s wedding with his new hair. Hair growth with EGFR receptor inhibitors is common but is often in unwanted areas. I have 2 patients whose eyelash growth on erlotinib is so intense they have to keep trimming them. Facial hair in women is a problem. As far as I am aware Astra Zeneca have not taken this side effect further. Gefitinib failed to get a license in the UK for treating non small cell lung cancer having had a set of adverse trial results which dramatically affected AZ’s share price. It has been superceeded by erlotinib manufactured by Roche.”

34

Real quick, I am in a hurry…

» I haven’t been able to find it anywhere without a doc’s prescript…

3gchemist.com. Cost is $375 USD (+ $20 shipping) for 30 tabs @ 250mg. It’s a generic version made by an Indian drug firm. I had never used this pharmacy before, but delivery was fast (they also give you a tracking number), and no script was required (even though the verbage on the website indicates you need one…there’s a checkbox or radio button when you select the item asking if the drug you are buying needs a script…you just select no).

I can give you some other places that I’ve used before which sell the brand name version, but the price exceeds $2K for 30 tabs.

35

» Benji, to point this out again:
»
» Leflunomide has the EGF-R properties

This is an ancillary property of the drug.

» That suggests to me that continuing the EGF-R blocking after the critical
» period might do more harm than good for new hairs.

Hair loss isn’t a complaint with long-term gefitinib use, but it is with leflunomide, which means the hair loss isn’t likely the result of blockade of the EGFR (otherwise, both drugs would cause hair loss).

» 1. Do you know how Leflunomide might compare to Gentifib in the critical
» EGF-R issue?

It’s not likely to be as good, IMO. Also, leflunomide is a dirty drug in the sense that it does a lot more than interfere with the EGF pathway. So, while you may get some EGF antagonism, you are getting other stuff that you may not want. A couple of other downsides: leflunomide is a pro-drug (which means in order for it to work, it needs to be converted to its active form…which may or may not happen if it’s used topically), and it has a very long half-life after oral use (meaning you’ll still be getting its effects for a long while after stopping the drug).

» 2. Have we ever decided what Loniten & Minox & the antihistamine are
» bringing to the table? Anything major?

According to the patent, minoxidil enhances follicular neogenesis after wounding.

36

Does the patent require topical application of gefitinib or oral ingestion?

37

» Real quick, I am in a hurry…
»
» » I haven’t been able to find it anywhere without a doc’s prescript…
»
» 3gchemist.com. Cost is $375 USD (+ $20 shipping) for 30 tabs @ 250mg. It’s
» a generic version made by an Indian drug firm. I had never used this
» pharmacy before, but delivery was fast (they also give you a tracking
» number), and no script was required (even though the verbage on the website
» indicates you need one…there’s a checkbox or radio button when you select
» the item asking if the drug you are buying needs a script…you just select
» no).
»
» I can give you some other places that I’ve used before which sell the
» brand name version, but the price exceeds $2K for 30 tabs.

Damnit nix

38

Maybe he just had a hair transplant and was too ashamed to admit it to the woman doctor :slight_smile:

39

» I emailed Dr. Burt (the one who wrote the article) and following is his
» response.
»
» “The patient maintained his hair up until death. The quality of the
» hair was finer and more like baby hair. He was able to go to his
» daughter’s wedding with his new hair. Hair growth with EGFR receptor
» inhibitors is common but is often in unwanted areas. I have 2 patients
» whose eyelash growth on erlotinib is so intense they have to keep trimming
» them. Facial hair in women is a problem. As far as I am aware Astra Zeneca
» have not taken this side effect further. Gefitinib failed to get a license
» in the UK for treating non small cell lung cancer having had a set of
» adverse trial results which dramatically affected AZ’s share price. It has
» been superceeded by erlotinib manufactured by Roche.”

i think this forum has totally lost it, you guys are thinking of using cancer drugs to treat hair loss ?

40

That just shows how hair is not important really.

» I emailed Dr. Burt (the one who wrote the article) and following is his
» response.
»
» “The patient maintained his hair up until death. The quality of the
» hair was finer and more like baby hair. He was able to go to his
» daughter’s wedding with his new hair. Hair growth with EGFR receptor
» inhibitors is common but is often in unwanted areas. I have 2 patients
» whose eyelash growth on erlotinib is so intense they have to keep trimming
» them. Facial hair in women is a problem. As far as I am aware Astra Zeneca
» have not taken this side effect further. Gefitinib failed to get a license
» in the UK for treating non small cell lung cancer having had a set of
» adverse trial results which dramatically affected AZ’s share price. It has
» been superceeded by erlotinib manufactured by Roche.”