Ahab how much NEW hair did this guy get on just his crown?

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
1

Just the crown Ahab.

I think that this guy has 40% - 50% more overall hair on the crown. I think that there are some areas of the crown that start out with NO hair but end up with some hair. In those crown areas where he starts out with NO hairs he gets more than 40% to 50% NEW hair because he starts out with none and ends up with some. This is not the usual 10% - 15% one gets with just acell + PRP. This is much bigger than that.

http://www.hairlosspress.com/478/results-platelet-rich-plasma-prp-acell-thrombin/

"This is a 3 months post-op results from a medical management that includes Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP), Acell, and thrombin. The patient is 32 years old with an unusual Norwood 3V pattern of hair loss. The patient had thinning in the frontal hairline, mid-scalp(top) and crown.

The patient had a successful FUE (CIT) hair transplant procedure, We placed 1992 grafts to the hairline and top.

In most cases grafting into the crown normally requires more donor hair to cover the crown than any other recipient area on the scalp.
We decided to start treatment in this crown with Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP), Acell, and thrombin therapy. The patient had a great response to medical management alone.

As you can see from the photo, At 3 month follow-up we noticed that he had more coverage in the crown where we used the PRP, Acell, and thrombin therapy."

2

another useless thread opened by jarjarbinx…

» Just the crown Ahab.
»
» I think that this guy has 40% - 50% more overall hair on the crown. I
» think that there are some areas of the crown that start out with NO hair
» but end up with some hair. In those crown areas where he starts out with
» NO hairs he gets more than 40% to 50% NEW hair because he starts out with
» none and ends up with some. This is not the usual 10% - 15% one gets with
» just acell + PRP. This is much bigger than that.
»
»
» http://www.hairlosspress.com/478/results-platelet-rich-plasma-prp-acell-thrombin/

3

at least my post has hair loss issues in it? Your post has no issue at all inside of it other than to further prove that you are are irrelevant. BTW, I asked Ahab that question for a reason…lots of other posters think highly of Ahab and if i can get him on board the growth factor train it would help me get more posters behind me in pushing for finding a way to get these growth factors/proteins early. So my post has a hair-loss agenda behind it, and the hair loss agenda behind my post is an attempt by me to help myself and others. Your post is just a rude piece of cr@p coming from a worthless unintelligent individual.

» another useless thread opened by jarjarbinx…
»
» » Just the crown Ahab.
» »
» » I think that this guy has 40% - 50% more overall hair on the crown. I
» » think that there are some areas of the crown that start out with NO hair
» » but end up with some hair. In those crown areas where he starts out
» with
» » NO hairs he gets more than 40% to 50% NEW hair because he starts out
» with
» » none and ends up with some. This is not the usual 10% - 15% one gets
» with
» » just acell + PRP. This is much bigger than that.
» »
» »
» »
»

4

i said n/t

5

and of course if my posts did end up resulting in all of us getting a chance to get our hair back earlier you would be one of the first in line to take advantage of what I accomplished, and you would not even apologize/thank me because you’re a useless peanut-gallery personality.

» another useless thread opened by jarjarbinx…
»
» » Just the crown Ahab.
» »
» » I think that this guy has 40% - 50% more overall hair on the crown. I
» » think that there are some areas of the crown that start out with NO hair
» » but end up with some hair. In those crown areas where he starts out
» with
» » NO hairs he gets more than 40% to 50% NEW hair because he starts out
» with
» » none and ends up with some. This is not the usual 10% - 15% one gets
» with
» » just acell + PRP. This is much bigger than that.
» »
» »
» »
» http://www.hairlosspress.com/478/results-platelet-rich-plasma-prp-acell-thrombin/

6

The crown looks better, but it’s hard to say by how much or whether any improvement comes from new hair (really, new hair of that length after only 3 months?) or from more robust, wider diameter existing hair.

7

» The crown looks better, but it’s hard to say by how much or whether any
» improvement comes from new hair (really, new hair of that length after only
» 3 months?) or from more robust, wider diameter existing hair.

I agree that some of the space filled in by hair in the crown is because of the diameter of individual hairs thickening but that is part of what we think of as regrowth. For example if somone’s aga had not yet progressed to the point that he lost any hairs but the diameter of his individual strands of hair on the top had thinned then his hair would collectively look a little flatter on top - like a flattened cake a little bit. be as puffed out in the areas where the strands had gotten thinner. The top would have lost some of its’ height/puffiness. If he got on a treatment that thickened those strands of hair on the top then those strands of would all thicken and his hair on the top of his head would look like it piled up higher/puffier. But when you see wide swaths that are actual skin that is a sign that, that area has lost its hair entirely, or it has become peach fuzz.

Imagine a circle around the entire crown in the before pic that circle has a lot of plain skin. You could even put the picture on your screen and draw an actual line around just the crown area on your screen with some kind of erasable marker or thin crayon and then you could actually see the skin area more pronouced because then you would isolate just the crown area without including the rest of the head. If you do this, and I did do this, that is when it becomes really clear to you just how much skin there started out in thye before pic and how much it filled in. That guy has at least 40% more coverage in the crown area. Try it. Get the two pictures on your screen and draw a thin erasable but visible circle around the crown alone in both pictures. There is a lot of skin in that before pic and almost all of it vanishes in the after pic.

The areas of the crown where you see skin look like WIDE parts…the same as the parts that people do when they part their hair on the side (men) or middle (women)…except the things that look like parts in the crown are much wider than regular parts. These skin areas of the crown that look like wide parts makeup a significant percentage of the crown area. When you draw a circle around the crown it looks like a lot of the scalp is skin that later gets covered with hair.

It looks like there is a piece of hair-growing skin in the middle of the crown and all around that piece of hair-growing skin is a wide moat of skin.

8

In the middle of the crown is a clump of hair - skin that is growing hairs. but all around that clump is a wide moat of skin and that wide moat of skin is almost the entire crown. That moat of skin is not the entire crown, but it is a large part of the crown. Imagine if that one clump of hair in the middle of that moat of skin was skin too…then almost the entire crown would be all skin. along the outside borders of the moat of skin is a little crown area with hair-growing skin too but not a lot.

9

what happens if you add those into the mix? Thrombin + PRP + Acell produces some pretty remarkable results now think about adding wnt7, follistatin, kgf, vegf, and noggin which should cause even more regrowth.

10

jarjarbinx, even though I concede that the crown has improved, I am not enthusiastic at all with this evidence. Believe me, I am anxious for the cure, but all these PRP versions so far are a big turn-off.

We have currently clinical trials going on from several companies, and these we have to applaud and cheer, and pray for them to be successful. Clinical trials with robust protocols and measurements. And where trialists are not being charged money!!!

» Just the crown Ahab.
»
» I think that this guy has 40% - 50% more overall hair on the crown. I
» think that there are some areas of the crown that start out with NO hair
» but end up with some hair. In those crown areas where he starts out with
» NO hairs he gets more than 40% to 50% NEW hair because he starts out with
» none and ends up with some. This is not the usual 10% - 15% one gets with
» just acell + PRP. This is much bigger than that.
»
»

11

I do not think that these “PRP versions” are a “big turn off” because I want a cure for hair loss as soon as possible and these " prp versions" are already available and they just need some bugs worked out. I understand that you want to wait longer (years longer) for the big research teams to cure your hair loss but if these “PRP versions” find the right formulation tomorrow then I will get my hair loss problem solved right away. But you do not need to worry because I will take care of business with the women for you while you wait years longer than you need to for a cure. I will get my hair back years sooner, have lots of good loving with the women for you and I, and I will tell the women that you will see them in a couple years.

Take as long as you like. More women for jarjarbinx.

Yea, I know we currently have clinical trials from several companies and we do applaud and cheer them but I am going to try to get my hair back asap. These drug companies are not my friends; they are businesses trying to make money and they do not care about me or my life. I care about me and my life. If these drug companies gave a d@mn about us they would release their treatments early but they do not. Histogen talks about early release but then they do delay after delay after delay. After phase 2 they will have enough info about safety and efficacy that they could release it to us somewhere in the world where there are no FDA restrictions but they do not want to because the FDA would frown on that. They are more concerned with appeasing people they do not have to appease than serving their customers - us. I do not feel any loyalty towards these big companies because they do not feel any loyalty towards me. I want my hair back and if a doctor finds the correct formulation of PRP then I will go to that doctor and get treatment rather than wait years for a big company to treat me. Again, these big research teams could release early after phase two somewhere in the world but they won’t do it so “F” them. I hope some PRP doctor does beat these big research teams to the punch. Serves 'em right.

Of course I pray for the big research teams to be successful because the doctors may not find a successful version of PRP so I may need the big research teams to find a cure. But if the doctors find a successful version of PRP then I hope that these big research teams go belly-up because they did not make it available to us as soon as they could. Again, they could have made it avail to us somewhere in the world where regulation is lax but they opt not to do so. “F” them.

Of course I would rather have robust protocols and measurements but it is not the end of the world to me. I have eyes. I can see. If the photographic evidence is sufficient then I will visit that doctor and get my hair back, and get my life back. At this point, the photographic evidence is not showing enough regrowth. I want a little more than the photos are showing. I think they are getting there. I think that this acell + PRP + thrombin is a good base, but now they need to add noggin, wnt7, kgf, and vegf, and perhaps more stem cells. Once they do this I think that will probably get them over the wire.

As far as trialists paying for these “PRP versions” goes; I could care less. You call them trialists; I call them patients. Patient’s pay. If you work I’m sure you charge your customers money. I charge my customers money. Customers pay money. That’s the way the world works.

» jarjarbinx, even though I concede that the crown has improved, I am not
» enthusiastic at all with this evidence. Believe me, I am anxious for the
» cure, but all these PRP versions so far are a big turn-off.
»
» We have currently clinical trials going on from several companies, and
» these we have to applaud and cheer, and pray for them to be successful.
» Clinical trials with robust protocols and measurements. And where
» trialists are not being charged money!!!
»
» » Just the crown Ahab.
» »
» » I think that this guy has 40% - 50% more overall hair on the crown. I
» » think that there are some areas of the crown that start out with NO hair
» » but end up with some hair. In those crown areas where he starts out
» with
» » NO hairs he gets more than 40% to 50% NEW hair because he starts out
» with
» » none and ends up with some. This is not the usual 10% - 15% one gets
» with
» » just acell + PRP. This is much bigger than that.
» »
» »

12

So then even though you know that the “trialist” has recovered hair you are still not interested in the potential of this kind of treatment just because:

  1. The “trialists” weren’t paid.

  2. There aren’t “robust protocols and measurements.”

It kind of makes me wonder if you have lost sight of the forest for the trees. You seem to have forgotten that your principle objective is to get your hair back. Why do you care about “protocols and measurements” if your own two eyes tell you that the “trialist” has more hair? You seem to want to be a scientist but that is not what I am all about. I am just trying to get my hair back. I am not a scientist wannabe. I am a balding person who wants his hair back. Period. If I can see with my own two eyes that the treatment is working then that is sufficient for me and it should be good enough for you.

The photographic evidence with acell + PRP + thrombin establish that these doctors are potentially on a path that might cure hair loss. We may not need to wait for these big research teams to bring something to market in years. Open up your eyes and remind yourself what your objective is. These positive results are with only thrombin, PRP, and Acell. There are other known growth factors that could be added to the mix - wnt7, kgf, vegf, noggin, and follistatin. Adding these items to the thrombin, PRP, and Acell could push the envelope enough for us to get our hair back. What would you do refuse to get the treatment because the trialists weren’t paid and there weren’t “robust protocols and measures?” Why? I don’t get it. If it works so what if the trialists aren’t paid. Remember that these big studies cost money and these private doctors experimenting with Acell + PRP + thrombin do not have the resources that these big research teams have. We’re lucky that these private doctors are trying Acell + PRP + thrombin and hopefully other agents as well.

You need to remind yourself what your objective is. Your objective is to get your hair back.

» jarjarbinx, even though I concede that the crown has improved, I am not
» enthusiastic at all with this evidence. Believe me, I am anxious for the
» cure, but all these PRP versions so far are a big turn-off.
»
» We have currently clinical trials going on from several companies, and
» these we have to applaud and cheer, and pray for them to be successful.
» Clinical trials with robust protocols and measurements. And where
» trialists are not being charged money!!!

13

At least, Acell should be delivering the powder for free, as these are trials. Instead, they are charging the doctors big money.

As of evidence, when the doctors present good macro photos, full of data, of several patients, I will tend to believe. But even in that case, remember that the effect most probably only last 1 year or less.

» So then even though you know that the “trialist” has recovered hair you are
» still not interested in the potential of this kind of treatment just
» because:
»
»
» 1. The “trialists” weren’t paid.
»
» 2. There aren’t “robust protocols and measurements.”
»
» It kind of makes me wonder if you have lost sight of the forest for the
» trees. You seem to have forgotten that your principle objective is to get
» your hair back. Why do you care about “protocols and measurements” if your
» own two eyes tell you that the “trialist” has more hair? You seem to want
» to be a scientist but that is not what I am all about. I am just trying to
» get my hair back. I am not a scientist wannabe. I am a balding person who
» wants his hair back. Period. If I can see with my own two eyes that the
» treatment is working then that is sufficient for me and it should be good
» enough for you.
»
» The photographic evidence with acell + PRP + thrombin establish that these
» doctors are potentially on a path that might cure hair loss. We may not
» need to wait for these big research teams to bring something to market in
» years. Open up your eyes and remind yourself what your objective is. These
» positive results are with only thrombin, PRP, and Acell. There are other
» known growth factors that could be added to the mix - wnt7, kgf, vegf,
» noggin, and follistatin. Adding these items to the thrombin, PRP, and
» Acell could push the envelope enough for us to get our hair back. What
» would you do refuse to get the treatment because the trialists weren’t paid
» and there weren’t “robust protocols and measures?” Why? I don’t get it.
» If it works so what if the trialists aren’t paid. Remember that these big
» studies cost money and these private doctors experimenting with Acell + PRP
» + thrombin do not have the resources that these big research teams have.
» We’re lucky that these private doctors are trying Acell + PRP + thrombin
» and hopefully other agents as well.
»
» You need to remind yourself what your objective is. Your objective is to
» get your hair back.
»
»
»
» » jarjarbinx, even though I concede that the crown has improved, I am not
» » enthusiastic at all with this evidence. Believe me, I am anxious for the
» » cure, but all these PRP versions so far are a big turn-off.
» »
» » We have currently clinical trials going on from several companies, and
» » these we have to applaud and cheer, and pray for them to be successful.
» » Clinical trials with robust protocols and measurements. And where
» » trialists are not being charged money!!!

14

» At least, Acell should be delivering the powder for free, as these are
» trials. Instead, they are charging the doctors big money.

I agree. The doctors are doing acell a big favor by doing these experiments at all. But acell is charging for the treatment and they won’t give it to the docs for free and there is nothing we, or the docs, can do about that. I don’t like it anymore than you do but I am not going to allow my anger at acell (the company) to overshadow the fact that their product is helpful at restoring hair. I want as much of my hair back as I can get back and I want it back as soon as I can get it. I do not want to get myself too bogged down in side issues like whether or not acell should be charging the docs or not because side issues like that are not the primary issue. The primary issue, my young friend is to get my hair back;-). Don’t lose sight of the primary issue Spanish_dude. If you want to ignore the PRP doctors “acell + other agents” treatments that is your right. You can ignore their treatments and not get them, but if you do so then you may miss an opportunity to recover a lot of your hair, and the life you used to have, quicker. You may cause yourself to be bald longer than you otherwise would have had to.

You may have to wait years longer than you need to wait to get your hair back just because you are annoyed about certain side issues that you are allowing to take your eye off the ball. That is what you are doing my friend. You are taking your eye off the ball. The ball is this: get your hair back. But now you are bogged down in issues like whether or not acell is being nice. These kinds of issues are not important. What is important is getting our hair back.

»
» As of evidence, when the doctors present good macro photos, full of data,
» of several patients, I will tend to believe. But even in that case,
» remember that the effect most probably only last 1 year or less.

I already believe that it works because the photos show it works, especially with thrombin. It does not work enough though. They need to add these other growth factors.

I don’t care if the results last a year or so. Once they get it back for me I will just get repeated injections to maintain;-).

»
»
»

15

If Acell is charging money now, this indicates that they want to make quick money.
If Acell had any future, Acell would be promoting clinical trials, providing the powder for free, and paying the expenses. And once the data proves the powder works, then they would be able to sell the powder like hot cakes.
These current “obscure” trials are not helping Acell much.

As for your impatience for a cure, I understand you, but your impatience could make you fall in the hands of unscrupulous charlatans.
But, if you have done your research (on growth factors, etc), and you think that this is worth a try, then it makes sense that you go and try it. But most of the times, it is people without any knowledge, who go and test these unproven methods. This is regretable and absurd. But in your case, I agree that it makes sense that you go and do it, as you seem to have some knowledgement. It wouldn’t make sense if you came here, and tried to convince others, less informed forum members, to go and try it. That wouldn’t make sense.

16

I agree with Spanish Dude. If these guys are legit, they’ll go through the full battery of clinical trials like everybody else. Furthermore, they’ll also have a decent amount of published science to back up their claims, so we know what the specific mechanism is.

A few pictures that show hair growth really mean nothing to us unless we really know what is going on biologically.

17

» I agree with Spanish Dude. If these guys are legit, they’ll go through the
» full battery of clinical trials like everybody else. Furthermore, they’ll
» also have a decent amount of published science to back up their claims, so
» we know what the specific mechanism is.

»

» A few pictures that show hair growth really mean nothing to us unless we
» really know what is going on biologically.

All of us, including you, usse minoxidil even though they have not figured out for sure how it works. When they first put minoxidil out they said they weren’t sure how it works and last I heard they are still unsure how it works but I’m sure you have used it aplenty. Check out these links showing that there’s uncertainty how minoxidil works and yet I’m sure you have used it aplenty. You say you demand to know how a medicine works before you will use it but that’s b.s.

http://www.hairmeds.com/questionsminoxidil.html#How_does_Minoxidil_work

http://www.hairlosslearningcenter.ca/content/topical-hair-loss-treatment/rogaine-minoxidil.asp

Histogen has already proven the concept that growth factors combined with an acell-like wound healer can dramatically reverse hair loss. The growth-factor in combo with an acell-like wound healer is proven because Histogen is using an acell-like wound healer in combo with growth factors and one year of treatment with Histogen’s growth factors in combo with an acell-like wound healer resulted in 73% more hair. The PRP docs are trying to come up with the right combo of PRP and Acell and other growth factors. The hard scientific evidence that growth factors + a wound healer like acell can grow lots of hair is already public knowledge; you just have to have enough imagination to extrapolate from histogen’s results.

Also, you yourself are talking about putting together home-made versions of follica’s treatment even though the treatment has not completed all of its’ clinical studies so you’re hardly the person to be talking about delaying the use of growth factors.

18

The reason I’m talking about using Follica’s technique at home is because its mechanism is pretty well supported by about 10 yrs of so of published research. This stuff has a few pictures on a hairloss site and you think it’s comparable?

Anyways, where are these guys in clinical trials?

Also, where has it been “proven” that wound + Acell will regrow hair? Neogenesis is a pretty big deal, when/where have these results been published?

19

» The reason I’m talking about using Follica’s technique at home is because
» its mechanism is pretty well supported by about 10 yrs of so of published
» research. This stuff has a few pictures on a hairloss site and you think
» it’s comparable?
»
»
» Anyways, where are these guys in clinical trials?

  1. hey, i’m quoting you…here’s what you said:

I agree with Spanish Dude. If these guys are legit, they’ll go through the full battery of clinical trials like everybody else.

You are saying you want a treatment to undergo all the clinical tests. That’s what you said.

  1. You say there is a lot of supporting evidence about the follica treatment and there is only a couple of photos regarding thrombin, but there is a lot of supporting evidence that thrombin can activate stem cells to become progenitor cells and even the follica crew is trying to find a way to get stem cells to activate and become progenitor cells so your own team (follica) indicates that the science behind thrombin may be helpful concerning hair loss.

  2. I am not just talking about thrombin. I am not just talking about thrombin and PRP and Acell. I am also talking about adding specific growth factors which have been proven by hair counts and by photographs to grow hair. Histogen has proven that these growth factors are useful in growing hair. Histoten has proven it with pics and hair counts.

There is as much science behind what I’m saying as there is behind what you’re saying. Also, you haven’t responded to my point that you claim you don’t want to take a medicine until the biology of how it works has been demonstrated and yet you have surely used minoxidil even though when they released rogaine they did not know how it works and to this day they still may not know so that shows that your criteria that they have to know how a medicine works before you will use it is really nothing but a lot of bs

20

» I agree with Spanish Dude. If these guys are legit, they’ll go through the
» full battery of clinical trials like everybody else. Furthermore, they’ll
» also have a decent amount of published science to back up their claims, so
»we know what the specific mechanism is.

Here’s a link that shows they still don’t know how minoxidil works and yet I’m sure you’ve used minoxidil so does that show that you don’t know what you’re talking about when you say that a company has to show how a medicine works before you will use it?

http://www.callrid.com/guide/health/how-does-minoxidil-work-does-anyone-know.html

»
» A few pictures that show hair growth really mean nothing to us unless we
» really know what is going on biologically.

Is that right? But surely you tried minoxidil and doesn’t that show that you used a medicine even though you did not know what is going on biologically? So then how can you say you insist on knowing how a medicine works when you used medicine and nobody, including you, knows how minoxidil works? Are you kind of talking bs?