Is there any news about pilox, NOT nigam, Pilox? Can anybody post info. From the private forum with Yoram? That would be great…
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by cal[/postedby]
Time will tell?
Time has told.
It’s been at least two years since Nigam’s claims started. Nothing to show but a series of questionable things about him. I believe he is really looking for a legit treatment but he’s basically taking money from clients to experiment on them. It’s nearly shooting in the dark and hoping something that Aderans was restricted from doing will work.
Why must something work? Just because we really want it to? What kind of reasoning is that?
I’m sorry to be so pessimistic but keep it real. The situation with HM is not promising at all for at least the next decade. Nigam is worth watching but not worth any emotional investment.
I’ve been hanging around here for 6-7 years but I’m just about finished with it. This HM race was fun to watch while all the DP cell stuff looked promising but we’re back to where things were 10 years ago. There are decent long term projects in the works but nothing short term is likely to amount to anything commercial.[/quote]
I also agree with this. With the death of HM and nothing on the horizon for the next 10 yrs or so, there is a vacuum which, if recent happenings around here are any indication of the future, will be filled with fr@uds, liars and sc@ammers. Who will be all but too happy to exploit the gullible and desperate, who seem to be the only ones inhabiting this board anymore.
As for Nigam, he isn’t even entertaining anymore…just pathetic. Has there been even one patient of Nigam’s who has followed up with photographic evidence of any kind? What happened to Tom V? He was supposed to be the “true” proof of concept for his techniques. The randomly chosen forum member with a history of posting. The guy who was one of us and supposedly not in bed with Nigam and was gonna post results for us so we’d finally know, whether that be good or bad. He’s disappeared along with the NSN, OBI etc… the list grows
[quote]
You don’t want to know the truth. You want to believe lies about Dr. Nigam and spread those lies as far as you can. In fact, before and after photos posted by Dr. Nigam establishes that he has accomplished some regrowth. You’re claims to the contrary are lies just like everything else you say about Dr. Nigam. Any honest fair-minded person would agree that Dr. Nigam has regrown some hair on some of his patients. Period.[/quote]
I’m afraid, Mr. Binx, that on this you have completely misjudged my thinking and my mindset. I don’t “want” anything negative about Nigam, or anybody else. All I hope for is that one day we might all have a viable solution to our problem, and all I want in meantime is to understand as best as possible items coming down the pipeline, and to help others do the same.
I would much prefer it if everything Nigam said and did were truthful and represented some sort of path to something useful to us. Unfortunately, the preponderance of evidence points otherwise.
If you truly believe that Nigam has presented anything at all that amounts to proof he is generating hair or duplicating donor, or otherwise doing what hair transplants cannot do know, then I can certainly state that your and my standards of credulity and critical thinking are very, very different.
[quote]
What about Nigam lying about his age? Has that been clarified also?[/quote]
He is 44 or 45 years old and has said so from the beginning. There is even
a video clip of him saying just that on youtube posted even before he arrived
on this board.
Here are the Vraf\\'s results that he posted a few days ago on the private forum:
Trichoscan 2 month test results
day1
day39
day64
Thats what Arashi from t.b.t. says about it:
\"Well, they functionally already banned me there anyway (they took my posting rights away cause vraf didnt like me being around too much which was reason enough for the mod to take my posting rights), so: vraf posted some pictures: zoomed out, showing his full head and macro photo’s zoomed in. When comparing the zoomed in to the zoomed out photo’s, they possibly couldn’t be from the same area (as vraf claimed). So, he posted fake pictures (or what I believe, from a different patient). The only reason he’d do that of course is that he was working with Yoram all the time. And that makes a LOT of sense. You remember vraf was the guy who went to the hairdresser, then supposedly magically came into contact with a pilox representative, who showed him a book full of result photo’s (for a product that was still in prototype stage). That whole story never made ANY sense to me. Why would a pilox rep go to a hairdresser with a book of result photo’s for a prototype stage product and show it to arbitrary clients in the shop ? And why was there a book in the first place ?
Anyway, so now it turns out vraf posted fake pictures (there’s just no other explanation that would make any sense, the pictures really speak for themselves). So at this point I think it makes sense to write this whole thing off as sc^m. There’s just no other way to look at it anymore.\"
I also want to believe, but i doubt about this stuff… And a guy(yoram) who was once connected with the snake oil(that russian site which ive seen)- cant make a good product… 
I speak russian btw
These pictures look fairly good, but obviously I’ve missed out on most of the thread and evidence, not being a member of the private forum.
Can somebody post the pictures that Arashi is referring to? The ones where the zoomed in versions are clearly a different person? Or at least, post the explanation?
Vraf had two trichoscan spots with tattoos on . Shown in the pic
Arashi was comparing the macro of one spot to the micro of the other.
Therefore he came to the conclusion that the pics were fake. Which they aren’t
I hate to agree with Arashi on anything (he was one of the first to start unfairly trashing Dr. Nigam), but I think his skeptical analysis of how vraf met the hairdresser who showed him an album of before/after pics of Pilox, is probably true. It sounds like a set-up to get public attention for Pilox, and this suggests that vraf is really connected to Pilox.
The results in those photos, if real, are very impressive. However, anything possible. They could be cherry-picked results, or this group might actually be lying and the results are really from something else, and they’re just CLAIMING that they’re Pilox results.
The truth is, without official, government-regulated clinical trials, these results are unofficial and could be anything. Government-approved clinical trials provide accountability.
In the absence of government-approved clinical trials, “researchers” could do anything including totally fabricating results and substitute photos from Propecia, Rogaine, or HT trials in place of results from their own product, and no one outside of their group would know the difference. No one would know if they’re being honest or not.
I really wonder why Pilox has chosen to do clinical trials without registering them and getting approval from the Israeli government.
I don’t buy the argument (if anyone’s offering it) that this product definitely doesn’t require government-approved trials. How do they know this? Have they asked the Israeli Ministry of Health (which approves human clinical trials in Israel)? Do they have an official opinion from the Israeli Ministry of Health that they didn’t need to get approval for human clinical trials?
If there is any doubt whatsoever, they have a duty to ask and get an official opinion or a waiver of application for human trials.
For those reasons, and others which I can think of, this whole thing doesn’t wash.
Note: This is in contrast to India, where we already know there is no legal requirement for Dr. Nigam to get government approval for his stem cell therapy experiments. The Indian Parliament is currently debating changes in this liberal legal regime, which may require experimenters like Dr. Nigam to register and apply, but thus far there is no requirement so Dr. Nigam is in the clear.
And yes, because he’s not doing his research as part of government-approved clinical trials, there are definitely risks associated with lack of accountability in Dr. Nigam’s work. I never said there aren’t, and in fact, my eyes are still very wide open about this and it’s a very real possibility. However, what I can say about Dr. Nigam is that he has shown a genuinely amazing range of real knowledge about the science of the hair follicle, HF stem cells, progenitor cells, cell markers, and cell culturing. And we’re talking the latest cutting-edge science. Whether or not you think the man is a genius or honest, you can’t deny that he does his academic homework and he’s not faking the knowledge. To me, knowledge is an indicator of sincerity, because sc@mmers usually don’t spend a lot of time learning about scientific details. Knowledge is not a guarantee of sincerity, but I think it’s a pretty reliable indicator. Another thing that leads me to believe that Dr. Nigam probably isn’t lying is that, as jarjarbinx has pointed out here, none of the photos we’ve seen from his cell therapy experiments show results that are in any way impressive results. Some photos where he’s combined cell injections with other types of therapy, including HT and/or “hair doubling” show fair (but not really impressive) results. One or two photos were outed as Photoshopped, but he was involved in a big dispute with another doctor over the rights to post photos of patients they both worked on (together and separately) and it just so happens that that same doctor (Anjali) has a website which even to this day is riddled with the most ridiculously Photoshopped HT pictures you’ll ever see. She didn’t even bother to take them down. Which suggests at some point they were indiscriminately sharing patients, photos, and possibly even website developers or administrators.
OTOH, we have Yoram, Pilox and vraf who state almost nothing about the science of their gadget. Since it’s patented (at least in one incarnation), you’d think they’d feel somewhat safe about explaining the science, if they knew what it was. Yet they say nothing, only the most vague and general statements that are at about elementary school level and could be interpreted in many different ways. This to me suggests that they have little knowledge of the “science” behind their gadget, very possibly because there is none. In fact they know that most people won’t care, because they’re playing to the masses who just want to see RESULTS and don’t understand or even care about scientific details. And that explains why so many people are eating this stuff up, accepting all these pictures as real, etc.
Can hair grow this fast in just 2 months?
Have no idea man… I’m trying to believe but that strange.
If they got those results in 2 months, this would be the most amazing hair regrowth treatment ever invented. I doubt it.
The chart includes breakdown for telogen vs anagen hairs, from what I know, you need a biopsy of the scalp in order to do that, you can’t determine what is in telogen phase just by examining the scalp.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by ipod[/postedby]
The chart includes breakdown for telogen vs anagen hairs, from what I know, you need a biopsy of the scalp in order to do that, you can’t determine what is in telogen phase just by examining the scalp.[/quote]
They probably counted miniaturised hairs vs terminal hairs and use that as the telogen vs anagen ratio.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by ipod[/postedby]
The chart includes breakdown for telogen vs anagen hairs, from what I know, you need a biopsy of the scalp in order to do that, you can’t determine what is in telogen phase just by examining the scalp.
[postedby]Originally Posted by helpmeout[/postedby]
They probably counted miniaturised hairs vs terminal hairs and use that as the telogen vs anagen ratio.[/quote]
I hope that’s not how the telogen hairs were determined in the study, I expect something more scientific and professional.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by roger_that[/postedby]
If they got those results in 2 months, this would be the most amazing hair regrowth treatment ever invented. I doubt it.[/quote]
Roger you should join the other forum.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by ipod[/postedby]
The chart includes breakdown for telogen vs anagen hairs, from what I know, you need a biopsy of the scalp in order to do that, you can’t determine what is in telogen phase just by examining the scalp.[/quote]
I thought anagen vs telogen analysis was half the reason tricho scan was invented?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
Its the easiest thing in the world to have some monkey like Arashi show up and
take a sh&t on someone or something. Who can’t do that?
[/quote]
LOL this is what I’ve been trying to say
Any news dudes?