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About Pilox


#21

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I want to stop discussing Yoram over here. I don’t think it’s helpful.[/quote]

what’s that have to do with the list of reasons why you believe dr. nigam?

Arashi put a good argument together against trusting nigam, why don’t you do the same for trusting him?

for some reason… i’ve never seen you or rogerthat do this…


#22

More results hitting the web with Yoram’s permission.

out within 8 months or so…

WOW

finally…


#23

You should stop posting stuff about this needhairasap.

You’re proving that you have a big mouth.


#24

Trusting Dr. Nigam:

  1. I’m intelligent and my sense is that he’s a nice man who would be proud to get a successful hair loss cure to bald people.

  2. His lab has been witnessed by one of the most respected posters at all of the hair websites - Boldy. Boldy confirms that Dr. Nigam has a real and working lab that can do the things that Dr. Nigam says he’s doing.

  3. It’s obvious that he’s really doing these things and even Boldy confirms that he’s really doing these things.

  4. A lot of what he’s doing he’s getting right from the available literature so we know he will succeed with that stuff. I do admit that it’s speculation whether or not he can overcome the issues of (1) limited trichogenicity after multi-pass cell culture and (2) re-implantation of cells with harm to the cells.

So if you look over what I’m saying I make it clear that I’m still hoping that Dr. Nigam can find a way to resolve the trichogenicity issue and re-implanting the cells without harm befalling them. I’m not 100% sure he will find solutions to these 2 hurdles but if he does then he may produce the breakthrough baldness treatment we are all looking for.

Also, the pics make it obvious that he’s already growing some hair. As a matter of fact, Dr.v Nigam IS growing more hair than Aderans grew in their studies but you would expect that to be the case since Dr. Nigam is using more cells types, more cell manipulation, now he’s added 3d spheroids, and he’s also adding growth factors to his cell treatments, which Aderans may not have done.

And the reasons you guys come up with not to trust him are ridiculous. He posts pics of one person and you call it two people. Absolutely laughable. You make WW3 because he posted pics in black-and-white instead of stock color but he gave a good reason for that. You guys wouldn’t accept his reason but that’s just because you guys are too against Dr. Nigam in the first place. His explanation was reasonable and sound. It was even the best choice for him to make at the top.

Everything else you guys complain about is years old questionable photos put on his site which he himself has acknowledged and promised would not happen again. It hasn’t happened since so he’s kept his word. Also, it wasn’t he himself who made those questionable pics; it was an associate who did not secure Dr. Nigam’s approval to make the photos questionable.

regarding the questionable pics: in fact, Dr. Nigam did not know it happened, he did not authorize it to happen, he made things right after it happened, and it hasn’t happened since then. He said it wouldn’t happen again and it hasn’t. You guys are being unreasonable.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by needhairasap[/postedby]

what’s that have to do with the list of reasons why you believe dr. nigam?

Arashi put a good argument together against trusting nigam, why don’t you do the same for trusting him?

for some reason… i’ve never seen you or rogerthat do this…[/quote]


#25

8 months. Where did you get this from? When will the other pictures be available?


#26

[quote]Trusting Dr. Nigam:

  1. I’m intelligent and my sense is that he’s a nice man who would be proud to get a successful hair loss cure to bald people.

[postedby]Originally Posted by needhairasap[/postedby]

[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]

usually your most salient and convincing point should go first…

hopefully this is not it.


#27

[quote]
I was never excited about Pilox to begin with, it seems that those who are
excited about this are new posters who came out of nowhere anyway.[/quote]

A whole army of monkeys came out of nowhere - many to attack Dr. Nigam, some
to promote Pilox, others posting stuff about some Russian doctor selling
snake oil.

It is the Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

I have more faith in Nigam coming up with something than these newly minted
doctors. But I’m willing to give anyone a chance.

Lets hope 2014 sees the rise of the Yoran and the fall of these chattering apes.


#28

[quote]
I was never excited about Pilox to begin with, it seems that those who are
excited about this are new posters who came out of nowhere anyway.

[postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]

A whole army of monkeys came out of nowhere - many to attack Dr. Nigam, some
to promote Pilox, others posting stuff about some Russian doctor selling
snake oil.

It is the Rise of the Planet of the Apes.

I have more faith in Nigam coming up with something than these newly minted
doctors. But I’m willing to give anyone a chance.

Lets hope 2014 sees the rise of the Yoran and the fall of these chattering apes.[/quote]

I made a template for a Freddie555 post. Just fill in the blanks and you can make your own freddie555 posts at home!

TEMPLATE

[insert baseless opinion]

[insert baseless opinion]

[insert false claim]

[insert personal attack]


#29

What is your point? People need to stop these useless posts and grow up! If you have some useful information to share please do it.


#30

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Matthew[/postedby]
What is your point? People need to stop these useless posts and grow up! If you have some useful information to share please do it.[/quote]

The point of my post is that you’re right: people should not post useless posts.

My post was suppose to show how freddie555’s post was… useless.


#31

Okay. Sorry!

I just wish we could get some good conversation going regarding Pilox. It looks so promising and I am not privy to these private forms. Unfortunately this form is full of people that fight with each other. I guess years of disappointment takes its toll…


#32

dear god, please grant me the strength to cut down these idiot monkeys in the
new year. Amen.


#33

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Matthew[/postedby]
Okay. Sorry!

I just wish we could get some good conversation going regarding Pilox. It looks so promising and I am not privy to these private forms. Unfortunately this form is full of people that fight with each other. I guess years of disappointment takes its toll…[/quote]

I find this herd mentality about Pilox absolutely absurd.

Based on a small set of completely unverified, unconfirmed pictures (which haven’t even been confirmed on the record by Yoram as actually having come from Pilox/Pilogics, if I’m not mistaken), people are caught up in another wave of mass hysteria. I think this thing appeals to so many people because they think it’s a quick, easy answer, that all you’ll have to do is roll some machine over your scalp once a day and somehow you’ll achieve amazing regrowth just like in those pictures. DIDN’T YOU SEE THOSE PICTURES???!!! But, oh yeah, the pictures are completely unverified.

I’ll pose this question again, so people can see it in black and white: Has Yoram or anyone else from Pilogics actually given a clear, positive, on-the-record confirmation that yes, those pictures are the result of Pilox treatment?

If not, they’re just a set of pictures that mysteriously appeared one day on a hairloss forum and then were taken down. No one has positively, definitively linked them to Pilox in a manner that is independently verifiable.

And since Pilogics is not going through the official legal channels of applying for permission to do government-authorized clinical trials of this invasive medical device, they have absolutely no legal accountability. It’s all just hope and hype. Not to mention the fact that their attempts to test, distribute, and market this device in the absence of authorized clinical trials may be a violation of Israeli law.

Hmmm… If I wanted to make a quick bundle of money and I had some dubious “device” that I wanted to sell around the world, which is in reality a medical device that requires clinical trials, I’d want to skirt the law and the authorities too, and I’d do it without clinical trials. I’d also leak pictures that look amazing but have no verifiable (or actual) link to my product. Then, so I’m not on the hook legally for anything (paper trail, screen-shots of websites and forums), I’d also avoid and evade having to formally confirm, on the record, that these photos are actually the result of someone using my device.

The leaked photos have created their own self-sustaining wave of new media hype, now I and my product are swimming in worldwide attention, strangers who know absolutely nothing about me, or the supposed science behind my device are defending me and attacking all skeptics, I’m now being really mysterious and inconsistent about what the actual results are, and even what the actual product and process consists of, although yes, I have a patent, but no, the current version of the product is not the same as the patent, well, OK, it’s sort of the same, it’s the same product but it isn’t, you know, and soon they’ll be wiring me lots of money through Paypal on some quickly-built drop-ship website…

Hmmmm…


#34

Roger_that,

I agree with your observation. In fact I have been burned before because I see the sky as blue. I just keep hoping that a break-through is coming. Thanks for looking out for those of us that are ease to trick. If you find out anything else about Pilox good or bad please post it. I for one don’t really want to be fooled twice… Yes, they are possibly setting up for a great trick. Otherwise they have a great device. If history is a predictor of the future you are very correct in your analysis. I hope your wrong this time but my gut tells me to be cautions.


#35

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Matthew[/postedby]
Roger_that,

I agree with your observation. In fact I have been burned before because I see the sky as blue. I just keep hoping that a break-through is coming. Thanks for looking out for those of us that are ease to trick. If you find out anything else about Pilox good or bad please post it. I for one don’t really want to be fooled twice… Yes, they are possibly setting up for a great trick. Otherwise they have a great device. If history is a predictor of the future you are very correct in your analysis. I hope your wrong this time but my gut tells me to be cautions.[/quote]

I’ve been following developments in hairloss research for a long time now (since the late 90s) and it’s always the things that have the promise of being a cheap, quick solution that generate the most unbridled, enthusiastic excitement and hype. Emphasis on CHEAP. The developments, whether real or not (and almost always, they are completely unreal) that suggest to people that there’s some kind of quick, inexpensive solution ALWAYS result in the biggest waves of interest, with advocates attacking anyone who thinks otherwise.

And I want to emphasize that the key here for many people, whether they know it or not, is CHEAP.

Pilox looks like something that will be very cheap, like a one-time investment of maybe, $250 or $300, that has the promise of growing a lot of hair (just based on some unconfirmed, unverified pictures, of course).

Whether people know it or not, they are subliminally responding to that “cheap” element, the idea that they can get a lot of hair back by putting in very little money. This excites them and makes them die-hard fanatics.

They don’t know exactly why they’re responding like that, but I’m telling you now, it’s because of the cheap thing. Even I’m guilty of this a little, with my experiment with the very cheap ($16) and easy-to-get NasalCrom (Cromolyn Sodium).

Of course, there was actually some potentially valid science behind that, so I jumped in, but to my credit as soon as I saw the stuff wasn’t working, I stopped. I wasn’t going to wait around slathering the stuff on my scalp for 1-2 years and getting excited searching for a few tiny vellus hairs near my hairline.

But the amount of interest out there among people about my NasalCrom experiment was pretty big, and I understand the reason was because NasalCrom is cheap and easily available. People tend to latch onto that and get over-excited about it.

On the other hand when people hear about something like Dr. Nigam, which would require a $3000 airline ticket to India, housing and meals, and thousands of dollars paid to Dr. Nigam for surgery and hair culturing and follow-up visits, all of a sudden they put blinders on about the reality of it, or the validity of it. The Nigam option becomes a sc@m, and Dr. Nigam becomes a sc@mmer, whose every word, past, present, and future, is a lie.

Believe me, I’ve been observing this stuff for a long time now and I’ve seen that time and time again.


#36

roger_that,

the leaked pics from the book have been confirmed indirectly, by mr. yoram benitah (the R&D guy from the pilogics team), in the private forum.
he also allowed vraf to post some more good pics from the book, they show some really good regrowth (this is what i mean with indirectly, by posting some more pics)

please also don’t forget that the “technion” institute is involved here. they can’t afford to destroy their image by selling snake oil or something similar. it’s not comparable to all the s.c.a.m.m.e.r.s from the last years who appeared out of nowhere. they play in a league of its own, although they also appeared just a few weeks ago by leaked pics.
it is almost undeniable that this device will be a big hit (5 years of development already). however, there is still the chance that the device delivers mixed results. maybe the one or the other will even experience no positive effect at all (as with every treatment). it’s definitely not the holy grail and not the final cure, but it’s huge, and will be a milestone in the hairloss industry.

it’s the best news of the last 10 years, and it’s not a “5 years away cure”.

hold on… we will know all the details in a few months, when pilogics decide to start the marketing.


#37

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Magneto_Amarendo[/postedby]
roger_that,

the leaked pics from the book have been confirmed indirectly, by mr. yoram benitah (the R&D guy from the pilogics team), in the private forum.
he also allowed vraf to post some more good pics from the book, they show some really good regrowth (this is what i mean with indirectly, by posting some more pics)[/quote]

Magneto, what do you mean they were confirmed “indirectly” by Mr. Yoram Benitah?

Either his statements on the private forum were a direct confirmation, or they were no confirmation at all.

What were his exact words? Can you re-post the exact quote where he confirms those specific photos?

Anything less than that is not a true confirmation.

Secondly, how is the Technion Institute involved?

Dr. Benitah may have studied at the Technion Institute, his degree may be from there, but how is the Technion Institute directly involved in this? Can you give details?

Let’s say a guy who graduated from MIT claims to have discovered a cure for baldness.

It’s a big jump from that to saying “MIT is involved”, and therefore this device/product/idea must be credible.


#38

Magento, a few more questions…

  1. My understanding that the subsequent photos posted by vraf were not nearly as good as the first ones, in fact they were “no better than Minoxidil or Finasteride” according to a couple of posters who saw them and posted here. So, what do these later photos represent?

  2. Regarding Technion, you are saying “Technion is involved” but again my question is, exactly how are they involved? Are they just “involved” because a couple of engineers who have degrees from Technion happen to be working for Pilox, like Dr. Benitah? Or is the Technion Institute itself actually involved in an official corporate, business capacity?

  3. If the Technion Institute is actually involved in this project in an official capacity, don’t you think it’s odd that the first thing on their agenda wouldn’t be, “Let’s register with the Israeli government to conduct official clinical trials of our device, since it is a medical device”?

  4. Regarding Pilogics working on this for 5 years, how is that an indication that it actually works? Aderans worked on their ARI project for 10 years and it didn’t work, and Dr. Gho has been working on his HM projects for 15+ years, and he has very little to show for it. So how does the amount of time they’ve spent on their project have anything to do with its viability?


#39

you’re right. he hasn’t confirmed it directly.
but he didn’t disclaim that the pics are not from pilox. he even told vraf to post some more pics. this is what i mean by “indirectly”. to me, this is proof enough.

prof. dov ingman from the technion is involved with the patents, if i remember correctly. but i would have to check it again. i am not 100% sure, but his name was stated few times in the forums. and also, when googling prof. dov ingman technion you can find him.

i don’t think that pilox will turn out to be snake oil.
it will definitely come to market, hopefully within 1 year.
worst case scenario: it doesn’t give results as good as expected (like it can be seen in the pictures). my personal guess is, that it will halt further hairloss completely, and then maybe give some regrowth (better than minox hopefully). once the scalp is under good condition then, i believe there can be some serious regrowth when using regularly for some years. i think it has the potential to wake up some deep-sleeping follicles on a long-term basis. maybe we can boost this by adding some growth factors also (histogen like growth factors from kane, the more expensive stuff). the big deal of pilox would be to halt further loss completely, providing a fin/minox free treatment. we need to get rid of this fin/minox crap, although it works for many poeple somehow.


#40

OK, thanks. My impression and understanding is that Drs. Benitah and Ingman are both graduates of the Technion Institute and/or have worked there, but I don’t think the Technion Institute has any official involvement with Pilogics whatsoever.

My big question is, either this is an invasive medical device which pierces the skin and puts some kind of chemical (copper peptides or zinc? who knows??) into the skin, or it isn’t.

If it is an invasive medical device that does those things, the way I see it is that they would have to go to the Israeli government, and register to do official clinical trials and go through an approval process with the Ministry of Health.

I would think that if they fail to do the above, they would be violating some laws in selling the device, even though they may not want to admit it. They may have their own rationalizations for why they needn’t go through the formal hoops, but have they actually run this by the Israeli Ministry of Health to get that agency’s legal opinion on it?

If on the other hand, their device is not medically invasive (does not pierce the skin or put any chemicals or drugs into the skin), then it’s true they may not have to get official permission and do clinical trials under the Ministry of Health, but in that case, then, I would have to ask, how can the device really be effective?

The patent certainly says the device pierces the skin and uses chemicals.

Have they now developed a new version of the device that can do everything the former version(s) did, including growing lots of hair, without piercing the skin and using chemicals, and if so, how?

And where is the patent for that???