simple question~
in your opinions, who tends to be the most informative, knowledgeable and drama-free here?
Knowledgeable & considerate of other peoples situations.
Benji also has a great sense of humour.
» Knowledgeable & considerate of other peoples situations.
» Benji also has a great sense of humour.
nah, Benji told me to shut up and deal with my hairloss and take it like a man. 
It was nice of anyone to say Ive been helpful.
James Bond, and his devotion to the patient application of the scientific method (which isn’t always a fast process) has taught me how to deal with and think about hair research from HM technologies to other hair-related countermeasures such as internals and topicals. Tom Hagerty and Bryan Shelton and Docj077 and Dave001 have also influenced the way I think about hair.
We are not born clairivoyant as human beings. We are all faulty in myriad ways. But we can postulate and hypothesize and form ideas and test them scientifically and form new theories based on those tests and retest the new theories. Observe and record results. This is the way it has to be done.
All other methodologies lead to silly theories like sebum back up, shampoo, or big pillows lead to baldness.
I feel pretty sure Docj077, a med student who posts at HL(t), has it right about baldness:
In short: 98.6% of all bald men carry a variant of the androgen receptor gene.
Just because we inherit a gene, doesn’t explain it all. Genes can either strongly or weakly express themselves based on mutations on the DNA. Many bald men almost assuredly have triplet repeat mutations of the androgen receptor gene expressing itself primarily in their dermal tissues, making their androgen receptors work super-well, and probably be more chemically stable than other people’s androgen receptors.
Balding men have been found by Sawaya (in med literature) to have 3 to 3.5 times as much DHT present in their balding scalp as well as MORE ANDROGEN RECEPTORS.
Too much androgen early on gets the hair to “flip” its response to male hormone. Male hormone is not good for scalp hair period, and is not necessary. People with androgen-insensitivy syndrome have androgen receptors that dont work, but have beautiful hair. In experiments, scalp hair thrives with no testosterone metabolites at all.
When hair’s begin to have a negative response to male hormone, one of the negative growth factors released by the dermal papilla to the rest of the follicle, TGF beta 1 (and TGF beta 2) really gets over-expressed. TGF beta overexpression is linked with excessive dermal fibroblast-driven collagen deposistion around a targeted tissue in other autoimmune disorders around the body (like liver, etc.). The immune system begins to see the follicle as a foreign body and begins a modulated attack as the marker cells hang around the follicle in higher than normal numbers and direct T-cells and killer cells to go to work. Oxides and inflammatory cytokines are oft-used by the immune system also. However, not all men have an immuno component to their balding, and the negative growth factors secreted by the dermal papilla in resonse to androgens (FGF-5, thrombospondin, DPPK, TGF-beta 1, and 2, PKC)—and the immune system’s own TNF-alpha go to work on the follicle, damaging its cells, surrounding it in collagen, damaging the lining to the blood vessels that feed it, scarring its structure, damaging the skin around it and making the scalp have that “shiny” appearance eventually due to all that excessive collagen pushing up on it.
Thats about it. Most of this is probably from the over-expression of androgen receptors due to the strong expression of one particular gene, and the higher than normal activity of the alpha-five reductase enzyme in our outer root sheaths of our hair follicles only (not our prostate or liver alpha five because our serum DHT isn’t usually out of kilter with non-balding men.) That is probably why we have thinning hair a bit early. Changing this mitochondrial DNA is a long way off scientifically however, and cloning------or maybe even something like ACELL----------would be the only near-term countermeasure that I could see that might interdict this.
One more note on the dermal tissue androgen receptors…Tom Hagerty, who knows a ton about hair, has noted before that when he watches men ballroom dance (Tom likes to ballroom dance with ladyfriends), that the balding men’s foreheads and faces sweat more than non-bald men. Its noticeable. Sweat glands are stimulated by male hormones and have androgen receptors. Men sweat more efficiently (more) than women do, and its why they can usually work outdoors for longer and harder than ladies can, because we can regulate our temprature with sweat better.
I imagine someday we will find that its these two genes that are the better part of the genetic profile of men with hair issues, along with two or three other genese and a healthy active immune system that sees something amiss and attacks with gusto.
Thats baldness as I understand it from reading science articles and posts of some really knowledgeable people since 2003.
» It was nice of anyone to say Ive been helpful.
After that post I would say that you helped me alot with that nice summary - but what is this about mitochondrial DNA? I have to admit I haven’t been keeping informed about the genetics of hairloss like my name implies - shame on me. Is the triplet repeats factual or theorized? Interesting. I have been a less than obvious presence here in the last year but I would have to say James Bond (JB) has been the most influential in spreading HM-related knowledge. I consider myself to be somewhat intelligent but I always look for JB’s reply to posts to see what a proper measured response looks like; most of the time he is dead on and has some very informative detail to why/what/how something is happening. JTR is the man to look for when looking for the patent or legal aspect of a situation and for his infamous predictions and insider secrets - that with all due respect don’t always pan out, but thanks for trying. Those 2 are the fabric of what this thread has been woven out of and has kept it strung together nearly from the get-go or at least the whole time I’ve been here (~8yrs). benji and others are also very informative just a little new to the scene
» simple question~
» in your opinions, who tends to be the most informative, knowledgeable and
» drama-free here?
One of the many problems with this forum is that is has become a haven for certain sycophantic posters who love to stroke the ego of other self proclaimed expert posters. I would say that this post originated from a person who needs his ego stroked massively and instead of waiting for someone to thank him for his information has created this post to see if his name will appear. Later in the privacy of his trailer he can then look himself in the mirror and proclaim to himself what a truly wonderful individual he is. GET A LIFE. This is a hair loss board not a self help therapy board for your under-inflated self esteem!
Fascinating post, Benji. I have a question, though: what is your view on the relationship between acne and MPB? And body hair and MPB? Thanks!
All the best,
BB
Oh, and I know there’s some evidence that MPB is associated with heart disease… your thoughts?
» Fascinating post, Benji. I have a question, though: what is your view on
» the relationship between acne and MPB? And body hair and MPB? Thanks!
»
» All the best,
» BB
» Fascinating post, Benji. I have a question, though: what is your view on
» the relationship between acne and MPB? And body hair and MPB? Thanks!
»
» All the best,
» BB
First, for the other poster who wondered about Docj077’s ideas. Doc posts at HL(t)…(I dont know why hairsite has to delete the name of that site, but they do). You’d have to look back about 2-500 posts to find the area of posting when doc was really going on and on about triplet repeat mutations and receptor genes, etc. They were long, very scientific posts. Doc is in med school, so he speaks in medicine-speak sometimes.
Acne and baldness…sebaceous glands are androgenically stimulated. They have androgen receptors. They have the alpha five reductase type 1 enzyme in them as opposed to the alpha five reductase type 2 enzyme that your hair follicles have in the innermost portion of the outer root sheath. Merk has tested an alpha five reductase type one inhibitor for both baldness and acne called MK386. It did very little for hair, only about a tenth of what finasteride does for hair or thereabouts. It did reduce sebum a good bit though, although its effect on acne wansn’t much.
Its very possible that plain ol’ testosterone (or androstenidione or DHEA or DHEAS----other forms of male hormone) can very much stimulate the sebacous gland also. The sebum produced can fairly quickly get microbials and other little critters living in it, this may produce and immune response and inflammation in folks with very active immune systems, and result in some pretty bad acne. Ive noticed over the years that folks with big pores often have the really tough acne. Its no wonder, more room for microbials to get in from the skin surface, etc. to the sebum and set up shop there.
People who have lesser than average amounts of globulin, the “sex-binding-hormone-globulin” that carries testosterone and DHT around the bloodstream in a “bound” and thus unusable form (because it cant bind with receptors), probably have more “free” testsoterone available to bind with the sebaceous gland receptor sites and free DHT to do the same.
Did you know that under normal circumstances only about 1% of DHT is “unbound” in the bloodstream. Most all the DHT that fucks up our hair is probably made right there in the root sheath of our hair follicles.
A combination of active sebaceous glands with extra Androgen receptor sites over normal, less sex-binding hormone globulin than normal, good working sebaceous glands or relatively big sebaceous glands, and an active immune system, and big pores probably all TOGETHER make certain unfortunate young people really have tough acne during adolescence.
HOWEVER ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE: some people who had back acne have good hair. This is why I think we will find the specific genes encoding type 2 alpha five reductase might be able to be differentiated from the expression of type one at some point, and there may be some difference in the amount of A-receptors in hair follicles, sweat glands and sebaceous glands.
I know that many times folks who had acne prone skin also get baldness, but Ive know personally a few guys who had good clear skin and small pores go uber-bald too. There are some 25000 genes, and we are finding out that alot of the “junk” DNA that was thought not to be really important to the 5% or so of “active” DNA —really might “direct” the DNA we have to do whatever…
On “junk DNA”:
So-called junk DNA might regulate the activity of the genes they surround
Anjana Ahuja:
Itstrickytounderstandthissentenceisntit? If you pluck the punctuation out of a sentence, it becomes much harder to read. Biologists now suspect that some stretches of DNA in the human genome that were previously thought to be useless might serve as punctuation between genes.
Your genome – the genetic material that makes you, you – is made up of genes and so-called junk DNA. Genes are the instruction manuals that your body uses to make proteins. But genes constitute only 4 per cent of the genome. The rest – the junk DNA – appears to serve no useful purpose. In the jargon, it doesn’t code for anything. This is puzzling, because scientists thought that evolution would fine-tune the human genome to preserve the essential bits and discard the rest.
Now an international team of scientists has discovered that junk DNA might regulate the activity of the genes they surround. While genes do the hard work of making proteins, the junk DNA could be responsible for starting and stopping protein production. “Some of the junk DNA might be considered punctuation marks – commas and full stops that help make sense of the coding portion of the genome,” says Dr Victoria Lunyak, of the University of California, San Diego, School of Medicine, one of the authors of a paper published in Science. Another analogy is to think of genes as building labourers, and the surrounding pieces of junk DNA as foremen.
This could explain why gene therapy has had limited success: scientists have tended to transfer genes without the junk DNA. And we know what happens when a foreman doesn’t turn up on a building site: you get the tea-drinking and wolf-whistling, but not much building.
CU researchers discover evidence of very recent human adaptation
So-Called ‘Junk DNA’ Is the Grammar of Genetic Language, Scientists Say
Why ‘junk DNA’ may be useful after all
james bond knows nothing
the best and most knowledgable are john revelator and nathan
Benji,
Is there somewhere I can email you privately? I’m not sure the messaging system here works.
» Benji,
»
» Is there somewhere I can email you privately? I’m not sure the messaging
» system here works.
I post with my old name, Michael Barry, Im trying not to spend too much time reading the message boards as of late, as Im just another one of the people who are awaiting phase two results. If they are good…I think our hair problems wont last a great deal longer.
I made up another screename for this forum (off the top of my head) because I didn’t want to carry a couple of long running arguments (with a couple of hairclub wig salesmen and non-shampoo nitwits) I was having over to this forum, but wound up arguing with the shampooists here anyway. Hairclub’s flunkies pretty much gave up trolling message boards for clients, which is a good thing.
» » simple question~
» » in your opinions, who tends to be the most informative, knowledgeable
» and
» » drama-free here?
»
» One of the many problems with this forum is that is has become a haven for
» certain sycophantic posters who love to stroke the ego of other self
» proclaimed expert posters. I would say that this post originated from a
» person who needs his ego stroked massively and instead of waiting for
» someone to thank him for his information has created this post to see if
» his name will appear. Later in the privacy of his trailer he can then
» look himself in the mirror and proclaim to himself what a truly wonderful
» individual he is. GET A LIFE. This is a hair loss board not a self help
» therapy board for your under-inflated self esteem!
I think there is some truth to what you say Bill. Sometimes when I post in this Forum I feel that, many times, my inept lack of articulation on scientific matters is somehow tested for a certain “IQ adequacy” and ultimately determines if a response is even warranted to such an HM idiot.
»
» I think there is some truth to what you say Bill. Sometimes when I post in
» this Forum I feel that, many times, my inept lack of articulation on
» scientific matters is somehow tested for a certain “IQ adequacy” and
» ultimately determines if a response is even warranted to such an HM idiot.
Don’t ever be afraid to post here, especially if you have advice for someone about something you just tried. That is whole reason David made this site. And never be worried about your “IQ Adequacy” either. If you read at all on the subject of MPB you will find that a whole lot of bad information flows through this board disguised as scientific knowledge, simultaneously praised by other posters who don’t know any better. If you have solid advice to offer just throw it out here. You may help someone without knowing it and besides you are never going to meet any of these pseudo-intellectuals anyway. Who cares what they think?!