What questions to ask during a consultation?

Hair Transplant
41

» » » What does an “aware” patient mean?I personally have positive feeling
» of
» » » esteem for a person or other entity ,untill I find good and
» sufficient
» » » reason to believe otherwise.That was the case for my regard for the
» » doctors
» » » too.You see,I didn’t know I had to be “aware” patient.Too bad people
» » have
» » » to be aware not to get …(please put here aware of what) by a
» » » doctor,don’t you think Dr.A?
» » »
» » » I think that saying “aware” patient is not punctiliously exact when
» » the
» » » word “aware” alone does not explain to us,in how we should be aware
» » before
» » » we go and see doctor, if we use a standard of what a reasonable
» person
» » » would think is right or proper in this instance to consider being
» aware
» » » when interacting with a doctor.Aware of what?
» »
» » Dear john35,
» » That is a very good question. Unlike other fields of medicine, hair
» » transplant has two peculiarities :
» » 1. Hair transplants are not essential. Hairloss is not a life or death
» » ailment where the doctor prescribes the treatment and the patient is
» » expected to take it. In hair transplants, the patient has to be
» » aware of the limitations of the treatment. And to be aware
» of
» » the fact that he can choose not to go for the treatment and still lead
» a
» » healthy life.
» »
» » 2. The patient has to be aware that unlike other fields of
» » medicine, doctors neither need to have a indepth training to be called
» a
» » hair transplant doctor, nor, in most instances, do they have access to
» such
» » training.
» »
» » A simple example : If your child is ill, you can be pretty sure to find
» a
» » qualified paediatrician in your city. The paediatrician will have a
» certain
» » minimum level of training and ability.
» » You do not need to do an online research for a suitable paediatrician.
» But
» » for a hair transplant doctor, you require that level of research or
» » awareness to make sure you are going
» » a). to the right individual
» » b). to get the correct advise.
» »
» » Regards,
» » Dr. A
»
» I see.
»
» Thank you Dr.A.
»
» Still,too bad that is the case.
»
» Perhaps something can be done this reality to be improved?
»
» And we all, when we want to find Ht doctor to do surgery on us, will not
» have to do online research but we will be rest assured to find a qualified
» HT Doc without the “awareness” and such research

It’s pretty naive to think that the problem is limited to the HT industry only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are just as many bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.

42

» FYI, this was first published in 2000 and is what we base the principals of
» our practice on.
»
» Wendy Roche
» Clinical Consultant to Dr Ray Woods
» PH: +612 9560 0111
» www.woodstechnique.com.au
»
» The Woods Technique
» List of Patient’s Rights
»
» These are the principals upon which The Woods Technique has been built. It
» is our profound hope that one day; this document will be the standard by
» which all doctors in the industry abide.
»
» 1. No Strip Excision to be performed or offered by the clinic
»
» 2. No assistants. Only a 1 to 1 doctor patient ratio:
» The day a patient decides to alter their appearance via hair
» transplantation is one of the most important days in their life. They
» deserve the absolute attention of a skilled micro surgeon throughout the
» entire removal and placement of every follicle.
»
» 3. No unfair legal disclaimer:
» This allows lawyers to defend the indefensible results of poor surgery.
»
» 4. All doctors are to be fully trained, assessed and accredited according
» to a strict code of conduct, ethics and ability:
» All surgery is to be performed according to highly skilled microsurgical
» standards and discipline.
»
» 5. Patient interaction and intra-operative monitoring of follicular
» placement
»
» 6. Largest instrument to be used for follicular placement in normal skin
» is a 21 gauge hypodermic needle
»
» 7. Random intra operative video assessment of follicular removal from the
» donor site verifying transaction rate directly to the patient if requested
»
» 8 Donor Site Conservation and Protection:
» Avoidance of follicular damage due to incorrect technique, inexperience
» and production line mentality
»
» 9 No intravenous sedation/analgesia
» The patient should be aware, lucid, fully informed and interacting during
» the procedure. Drugs that significantly affect the patients’ ability to
» make decisions and interact must not be used.
»
» 10. Do No Harm
» None of the above are subject to compromise.
»
»
» Dr Ray Woods
» Founder of The Woods Technique

Dr. Woods, it sounds good and it looks even better on paper, but that’s as far as this declaration goes IMHO. I need to see results bcause in the end that’s what really matters. You have to realize that any doctor can come up with a list like yours to glorify his work but if you don’t back it up with the “goods”, then it’s just talk, don’t you agree? The truth is that you don’t post patient results anymore these days and that s not a good sign.

43

» » » » What does an “aware” patient mean?I personally have positive
» feeling
» » of
» » » » esteem for a person or other entity ,untill I find good and
» » sufficient
» » » » reason to believe otherwise.That was the case for my regard for the
» » » doctors
» » » » too.You see,I didn’t know I had to be “aware” patient.Too bad
» people
» » » have
» » » » to be aware not to get …(please put here aware of what) by
» a
» » » » doctor,don’t you think Dr.A?
» » » »
» » » » I think that saying “aware” patient is not punctiliously exact
» when
» » » the
» » » » word “aware” alone does not explain to us,in how we should be aware
» » » before
» » » » we go and see doctor, if we use a standard of what a reasonable
» » person
» » » » would think is right or proper in this instance to consider being
» » aware
» » » » when interacting with a doctor.Aware of what?
» » »
» » » Dear john35,
» » » That is a very good question. Unlike other fields of medicine, hair
» » » transplant has two peculiarities :
» » » 1. Hair transplants are not essential. Hairloss is not a life or
» death
» » » ailment where the doctor prescribes the treatment and the patient is
» » » expected to take it. In hair transplants, the patient has to be
» » » aware of the limitations of the treatment. And to be
» aware
» » of
» » » the fact that he can choose not to go for the treatment and still
» lead
» » a
» » » healthy life.
» » »
» » » 2. The patient has to be aware that unlike other fields of
» » » medicine, doctors neither need to have a indepth training to be
» called
» » a
» » » hair transplant doctor, nor, in most instances, do they have access
» to
» » such
» » » training.
» » »
» » » A simple example : If your child is ill, you can be pretty sure to
» find
» » a
» » » qualified paediatrician in your city. The paediatrician will have a
» » certain
» » » minimum level of training and ability.
» » » You do not need to do an online research for a suitable
» paediatrician.
» » But
» » » for a hair transplant doctor, you require that level of research or
» » » awareness to make sure you are going
» » » a). to the right individual
» » » b). to get the correct advise.
» » »
» » » Regards,
» » » Dr. A
» »
» » I see.
» »
» » Thank you Dr.A.
» »
» » Still,too bad that is the case.
» »
» » Perhaps something can be done this reality to be improved?
» »
» » And we all, when we want to find Ht doctor to do surgery on us, will
» not
» » have to do online research but we will be rest assured to find a
» qualified
» » HT Doc without the “awareness” and such research
»
» It’s pretty naive to think that the problem is limited to the HT industry
» only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are just as many
» bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.

Maybe it is not limited to the HT Industry only, but what that has to do with anything? What you say is just a transition from a specific topic addressing specific argumentation (or a problem as you admitted your self) to completely other thing, some avenue of conformity filled with desire of many to avoid controversy at all costs….HT Industry is not the only one….it is all medical treatments…everyone is doing it etc etc. This is not refutation .That is called fallacy of popular appeal. argumentum ad populum

If your reply is to me ,then,for the record, I did not say it is limited to the HT Industry only.So,I am not naïve,but I don’t think that has to be limited to the HT Industry only for the problem to be addressed.

44

» only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are just as many
» bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.

Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors, who was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered wrongdoing of a doctor?

Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything and has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research of forums before you go to a dentist?

45

» » only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are just as
» many
» » bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.
»
» Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors, who
» was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» wrongdoing of a doctor?
»
» Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything and
» has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research of
» forums before you go to a dentist?

BINGO! I am not kidding you, as a matter of fact, I spent just as much time researching before I finally found a good dentist literally just last week. The last time I went to a dentist was 3 years ago, it was a nightmare, I wasn’t even getting any major dental work done, just a plain old simple checkup and it turned into a horrifying experience. I was so badly treated by the last dentist that i decided to never see one again unless I found one with good reputation at a affordable price, it took me 3 years! I didn’t just make this up, this is all true.

Do you live in the US ? I can understand why you feel that way if you are from another country.

46

» » » only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are just as
» » many
» » » bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.
» »
» » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors,
» who
» » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» »
» » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything
» and
» » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research of
» » forums before you go to a dentist?
»
» BINGO! I am not kidding you, as a matter of fact, I spent just as much
» time researching before I finally found a good dentist literally just last
» week. The last time I went to a dentist was 3 years ago, it was a
» nightmare, I wasn’t even getting any major dental work done, just a plain
» old simple checkup and it turned into a horrifying experience. I was so
» badly treated by the last dentist that i decided to never see one again
» unless I found one with good reputation at a affordable price, it took me 3
» years! I didn’t just make this up, this is all true.
»
» Do you live in the US ? I can understand why you feel that way if you
» are from another country.

Yes Bingo, but for me,:smiley: as you prove my point. You see, you had to get the “horrifying experience” and get "badly treated” BEFORE you decided to do research. Before that you were the ordinary, average, patient ,who did not think such research is a must. You were what most people are. Predispositioned, to trust doctors.
You see that presumption (that doctors will not do you wrong) is also a Legal presumption. If you bring claim in Court that doctor did you wrong and transgressed upon your rights you ALSO must bring affidavit of merit from another doctor who would state the claim has merit. It is a measure enacted to deter frivolous lawsuits. In fact the presumption that the doctors do not do wrong is so strong that, when a plaintiff in a medical liability lawsuit does not file an affidavit of merit with the complaint, the case may be dismissed.Why is then naive to trust doctors ? You trusted them before the horrifying experience didn’t you? Why is there lack of regulation and enforcement AMONG doctors,their proffessional organizations,such is the ISHRS for example?Why must people be exposed to harm and learn the hard way? When those doctors have such exclusive protection by the lawmaker?

I live in the US now.I lived in many parts of Europe when I was younger

47

» » » » only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are just
» as
» » » many
» » » » bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.
» » »
» » » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors,
» » who
» » » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» » »
» » » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» » » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything
» » and
» » » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research
» of
» » » forums before you go to a dentist?
» »
» » BINGO! I am not kidding you, as a matter of fact, I spent just as much
» » time researching before I finally found a good dentist literally just
» last
» » week. The last time I went to a dentist was 3 years ago, it was a
» » nightmare, I wasn’t even getting any major dental work done, just a
» plain
» » old simple checkup and it turned into a horrifying experience. I was so
» » badly treated by the last dentist that i decided to never see one again
» » unless I found one with good reputation at a affordable price, it took
» me 3
» » years! I didn’t just make this up, this is all true.
» »
» » Do you live in the US ? I can understand why you feel that way if you
» » are from another country.
»
» Yes Bingo, but for me,:smiley: as you prove my point. You see, you had to get
» the “horrifying experience” and get "badly treated” BEFORE you decided to
» do research. Before that you were the ordinary, average, patient ,who did
» not think such research is a must. You were what most people are.
» Predispositioned, to trust doctors.
» You see that presumption (that doctors will not do you wrong) is also a
» Legal presumption. If you bring claim in Court that doctor did you wrong
» and transgressed upon your rights you ALSO must bring affidavit of merit
» from another doctor who would state the claim has merit. It is a measure
» enacted to deter frivolous lawsuits. In fact the presumption that the
» doctors do not do wrong is so strong that, when a plaintiff in a medical
» liability lawsuit does not file an affidavit of merit with the complaint,
» the case may be dismissed.Why is then naive to trust doctors ? You trusted
» them before the horrifying experience didn’t you? Why is there lack of
» regulation and enforcement AMONG doctors,their proffessional
» organizations,such is the ISHRS for example?Why must people be exposed to
» harm and learn the hard way? When those doctors have such exclusive
» protection by the lawmaker?
»
» I live in the US now.I lived in many parts of Europe when I was younger

NO NO NO NO NO ! you are being presumptuous, I always research but doing your research doesn’t mean that you will be guaranteed the best treatment, you simply reduce the chance of a bad experience, research can never totally eliminate the possibility of a horror story, you are taking my words out of context in order to suit your argument! What’s wrong with you!

48

» » » » » only. Research is a must for all medical treatments, there are
» just
» » as
» » » » many
» » » » » bad pediatricians, oncologists, chiropractors, etc etc out there.
» » » »
» » » » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust
» doctors,
» » » who
» » » » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » » » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» » » »
» » » » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums,
» who
» » » » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of
» anything
» » » and
» » » » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » » » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research
» » of
» » » » forums before you go to a dentist?
» » »
» » » BINGO! I am not kidding you, as a matter of fact, I spent just as
» much
» » » time researching before I finally found a good dentist literally just
» » last
» » » week. The last time I went to a dentist was 3 years ago, it was a
» » » nightmare, I wasn’t even getting any major dental work done, just a
» » plain
» » » old simple checkup and it turned into a horrifying experience. I was
» so
» » » badly treated by the last dentist that i decided to never see one
» again
» » » unless I found one with good reputation at a affordable price, it
» took
» » me 3
» » » years! I didn’t just make this up, this is all true.
» » »
» » » Do you live in the US ? I can understand why you feel that way if
» you
» » » are from another country.
» »
» » Yes Bingo, but for me,:smiley: as you prove my point. You see, you had to
» get
» » the “horrifying experience” and get "badly treated” BEFORE you decided
» to
» » do research. Before that you were the ordinary, average, patient ,who
» did
» » not think such research is a must. You were what most people are.
» » Predispositioned, to trust doctors.
» » You see that presumption (that doctors will not do you wrong) is also a
» » Legal presumption. If you bring claim in Court that doctor did you
» wrong
» » and transgressed upon your rights you ALSO must bring affidavit of
» merit
» » from another doctor who would state the claim has merit. It is a
» measure
» » enacted to deter frivolous lawsuits. In fact the presumption that the
» » doctors do not do wrong is so strong that, when a plaintiff in a
» medical
» » liability lawsuit does not file an affidavit of merit with the
» complaint,
» » the case may be dismissed.Why is then naive to trust doctors ? You
» trusted
» » them before the horrifying experience didn’t you? Why is there lack of
» » regulation and enforcement AMONG doctors,their proffessional
» » organizations,such is the ISHRS for example?Why must people be exposed
» to
» » harm and learn the hard way? When those doctors have such exclusive
» » protection by the lawmaker?
» »
» » I live in the US now.I lived in many parts of Europe when I was younger
»
»
» NO NO NO NO NO ! you are being presumptuous, I always research but
» doing your research doesn’t mean that you will be guaranteed the best
» treatment, you simply reduce the chance of a bad experience, research can
» never totally eliminate the possibility of a horror story, you are taking
» my words out of context in order to suit your argument! What’s wrong with
» you!

If i told you what was wrong with me that would also must be in my own sided and prejudiced view, that it is inherent, and thus I can’t, and neither can anyone, even you, avoid IT. So please, you decide what is wrong with me. I just responded to your reply. I did not take out of context anything. You said this "I was
» so
» » » badly treated by the last dentist that i decided (cause)to never see one
» again
» » » unless (consequence)I found one with good reputation at a affordable price, it
» took
» » me 3
» » » years!

If you always did research, why did you decide, THEN ,to never see one again UNLESS….?

But regardless of this ,if you say that you always did research more power to you.I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.You are just a guy who always does research.
So your first research for the dentist you disliked so much was not so good eh? What did that research consist of? yellow pages? online Forums? What was the outcome of that first research? Why did you think, then, when you researched the first dentist that he was good? Was your second research for the new dentist different?

49

» Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors, who
» was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» wrongdoing of a doctor?
»
» Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything and
» has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research of
» forums before you go to a dentist?

What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic that has a MD after someone’s name?

50

» » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors, who
» » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» »
» » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything
» and
» » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research of
» » forums before you go to a dentist?
»
» What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic that has a
» MD after someone’s name?

I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find it so strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS A PRIORI.

Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation , because they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The “naive” patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and calls the “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research and awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished their med school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical profession and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is not and it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not regulated as a business

Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have to, and after I try all possible alternatives.
Now, my opinion of doctors is low.

51

» » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors, who
» » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» »
» » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything
» and
» » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research of
» » forums before you go to a dentist?
»
» What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic that has a
» MD after someone’s name?

Preaching to be “aware” patient in the context we speak of, is in essence urging us to adjust to the present state of things ,as though the adjustment in becoming the ‘aware” patient is good thing IN ITSELF. But if we are asked to adjust to something “BAD”, then the better we adjust, the worse we become.

A persuasive argument might be made, that in such instance we should be called maladjusted, but aware. It is because, the insect, the bird, the animal…- all are perfectly adjusted to their environment and their society. This is why animals have no history, but only repetitive biological process. The ant is thousand times more efficient, and better “adjusted” that we humans are-but no ant knows anything more, nor can do anything differently, than his grandfather.
It is because man continually questions the status quo,the state of things, which is evident in the chasm between aspiration and capacity, vision and performance, have there arisen all the distinctively human activities: scientific inquiry,” artistic creation “,philosophical speculation and there you have it…(the supporting contradiction of them all) Historical experience.
Historical CHANGE reminds us, adjusting to making changes is peculiar to man. Not the repetition of same thing over and over…
Man adjusts the environment, we are able to change and adapt external circumstances. Is preaching be aware all this doctors can say on their next ISHRS meeting?

52

» I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find it so
» strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the
» reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS A
» PRIORI.
»
» Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation , because
» they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The “naive”
» patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and calls the
» “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research and
» awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished their med
» school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them
» preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical profession
» and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is not and
» it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not regulated
» as a business
»
» Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have to,
» and after I try all possible alternatives.
» Now, my opinion of doctors is low.

All I have to say is that it is really hard following your logic, you keep contradicting yourself, it wasn’t that long ago when you wrote the following which adamantly suggests that you were raised to trust doctors, and now you said you don’t trust them.

Previously you wrote:
"Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors, who was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered wrongdoing of a doctor? "

53

» » I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find it so
» » strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the
» » reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS A
» » PRIORI.
» »
» » Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation ,
» because
» » they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The “naive”
» » patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and calls
» the
» » “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research and
» » awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished their
» med
» » school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them
» » preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical
» profession
» » and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is not
» and
» » it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not
» regulated
» » as a business
» »
» » Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have to,
» » and after I try all possible alternatives.
» » Now, my opinion of doctors is low.
»
»
» All I have to say is that it is really hard following your logic, you keep
» contradicting yourself, it wasn’t that long ago when you wrote the
» following which adamantly suggests that you were raised to trust doctors,
» and now you said you don’t trust them.
»
»
» Previously you wrote:
» "Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors,
» who was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» wrongdoing of a doctor? "

Jeep Guy :smiley: I didn’t contradict my self. TRUST was the past. I did trust them. Because I was raised to trust them. Now I don’t. Because I was f… royally by one and all his colleagues ,his buddies from the club, were watching that silently not moving a finger.
Ya ,I appear to be contradicting my self to a lot of guys who went through school passing their exams by answering questions with circling a,b,c,or d as a choice. …and learning who is the current President and where is the Pacific ocean and where is the Atlantic is good enough knowledge to get high school diploma or even Bachelor degree. I don’t imply that you are one of those. You see this is the story………………………………………………………………….
In the Ht clinic of—but it is better not to mention the clinic. There is nothing more irritable than mentioning clinic name. Each individual attached to them nowadays easily takes insult in his person.”. Therefore, in order to avoid all unpleasantness, it will be better to describe the clinic in question only as a certain clinic.
So, in a certain clinic there was a certain doctor—very reputable and the liberal and democratic climate of the Web was responsible for this. Quite recently a complaint was received from a former patient of his, in which he plainly demonstrated that the doctors sacred name was being taken in vain; and in proof the disgruntled patient clearly showed he has an “agenda”. The moderator of a certain forum in order that the reader might see for himself that it was a case of necessity, and that it was utterly impossible to be anything else, banned the poster. When and how he entered the forum no one remembers, there is a memory that he had an agenda. However much of forums and chiefs of all kinds were changed, and he was always to be seen stuck in the same place, the same attitude, so that it was afterwards affirmed that he had been born with an agenda and scared head. No respect was shown him in the forums .He was troublemaker and In this manner he did it all the time. We have mentioned it in order that the reader might see for himself that it was a case of necessity, and that it was utterly impossible to give him any other name…

Nothing of what I said is contradicting Jeep Guy. But it is not in vain that you present it as such. There is allot of cracking smart heads who will see your point and dismiss me as a nut case…:wink:

54

» » » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors,
» who
» » » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» » »
» » » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums, who
» » » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of anything
» » and
» » » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research
» of
» » » forums before you go to a dentist?
» »
» » What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic that has
» a
» » MD after someone’s name?
»
» I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find it so
» strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the
» reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS A
» PRIORI.
»
» Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation , because
» they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The “naive”
» patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and calls the
» “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research and
» awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished their med
» school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them
» preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical profession
» and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is not and
» it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not regulated
» as a business
»
» Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have to,
» and after I try all possible alternatives.
» Now, my opinion of doctors is low.

I don’t know what it is like in Europe but in the US, doctor is the same as businessman, the entire medical field is run like any other businesses, no difference.

55

» » » » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust doctors,
» » who
» » » » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before encountered
» » » » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» » » »
» » » » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums,
» who
» » » » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of
» anything
» » » and
» » » » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as non
» » » » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online research
» » of
» » » » forums before you go to a dentist?
» » »
» » » What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic that
» has
» » a
» » » MD after someone’s name?
» »
» » I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find it
» so
» » strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the
» » reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS A
» » PRIORI.
» »
» » Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation ,
» because
» » they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The “naive”
» » patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and calls
» the
» » “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research and
» » awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished their
» med
» » school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them
» » preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical
» profession
» » and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is not
» and
» » it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not
» regulated
» » as a business
» »
» » Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have to,
» » and after I try all possible alternatives.
» » Now, my opinion of doctors is low.
»
» I don’t know what it is like in Europe but in the US, doctor is the same
» as businessman, the entire medical field is run like any other businesses,
» no difference.

There is difference.
Since the beginning , the proclamation of the medical profession has always been to serve the needs of the patient. From the earliest origins the profession of medicine has steadfastly held that physicians’ responsibility to their patients takes precedence over their own economic interests. Thus the oath of Hippocrates

And that has been the basis of a un written ,but existing, ”de facto” agreement (call it contract) between modern society and the medical profession ,the doctors. The way their system is organized and financed, the way doctors work within it, and the way we think about it, and consequently the doctors, .The medical system in the US (and everywhere else)has long been based upon those ethical values and assumptions

In the eyes of the Law, the ethical assumptions for medical professional and businessmen are not the same ,the treatment when complaint is made against medical professional is different than that of a complaint against businessman whose profession is other than medical.
Physicians have enjoyed a privileged position in society, virtually assuring them of high social status and a good living. They have been accorded these privileges in the expectation that they will remain competent and trustworthy and will faithfully discharge the fiduciary responsibility to patients proclaimed in their ethical codes. In this country, the US, state governments grant physicians a licensed monopoly to practice their profession and allow them considerable autonomy in setting their educational and professional standards and their working conditions. The professional education of physicians is heavily subsidized, because tuition, even in the private medical schools, does not nearly cover the costs of educating medical students. Furthermore, the information, tools, and techniques that physicians use to practice their profession are usually developed through publicly supported research. All that is because of the assumption that the medical field and private business are NOT quite the same thing.

Now, after all that certain medical professional organization should not accept appalling state of things. HT Doctors should set their educational and professional standards and their working conditions instead telling us ,few, on some internet forum “be aware”. There is millions of people considering HT who did not read the be aware here. Millions of people who trust doctors and who believe in them.

Do you see my point? Medical profession has a privileged position and it is regulated much differently than the profession of other businessman’s.

56

fix that which is overdue for 30 years. Regulate the HT field,Ht doctors…all of you,reputable and not so reputable…

57

» » » » » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust
» doctors,
» » » who
» » » » » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before
» encountered
» » » » » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» » » » »
» » » » » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of forums,
» » who
» » » » » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of
» » anything
» » » » and
» » » » » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as
» non
» » » » » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online
» research
» » » of
» » » » » forums before you go to a dentist?
» » » »
» » » » What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic
» that
» » has
» » » a
» » » » MD after someone’s name?
» » »
» » » I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find it
» » so
» » » strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the
» » » reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS A
» » » PRIORI.
» » »
» » » Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation ,
» » because
» » » they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The
» “naive”
» » » patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and calls
» » the
» » » “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research
» and
» » » awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished
» their
» » med
» » » school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them
» » » preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical
» » profession
» » » and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is
» not
» » and
» » » it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not
» » regulated
» » » as a business
» » »
» » » Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have
» to,
» » » and after I try all possible alternatives.
» » » Now, my opinion of doctors is low.
» »
» » I don’t know what it is like in Europe but in the US, doctor is the
» same
» » as businessman, the entire medical field is run like any other
» businesses,
» » no difference.
»
» There is difference.
» Since the beginning , the proclamation of the medical profession has
» always been to serve the needs of the patient. From the earliest origins
» the profession of medicine has steadfastly held that physicians’
» responsibility to their patients takes precedence over their own economic
» interests. Thus the oath of Hippocrates
»
» And that has been the basis of a un written ,but existing, ”de
» facto” agreement (call it contract) between modern society and the medical
» profession ,the doctors. The way their system is organized and financed,
» the way doctors work within it, and the way we think about health care,
» and consequently the doctors, the ethical values and assumptions upon
» the medical system in the US (and everywhere else) has long been based upon
» those beliefs that I mention above.
» In the eyes of the Law, the ethical assumptions for medical
» professional and businessmen are not the same ,the treatment when
» complaint is made against medical professional is different than that of a
» complaint against businessman whose profession is other than medical.
» Physicians have enjoyed a privileged position in society, virtually
» assuring them of high social status and a good living. They have been
» accorded these privileges in the expectation that they will remain
» competent and trustworthy and will faithfully discharge the fiduciary
» responsibility to patients proclaimed in their ethical codes. In this
» country, the US, state governments grant physicians a licensed monopoly to
» practice their profession and allow them considerable autonomy in setting
» their educational and professional standards and their working conditions.
» The professional education of physicians is heavily subsidized, because
» tuition, even in the private medical schools, does not nearly cover the
» costs of educating medical students. Furthermore, the information, tools,
» and techniques that physicians use to practice their profession are usually
» developed through publicly supported research. All that is because of the
» assumption that the medical field and private business are NOT quite the
» same thing.
»
» Now, after all that certain medical professional organization
» should not accept appalling state of things. HT Doctors should set
» their educational and professional standards and their working conditions
» instead telling us ,few, on some internet forum “be aware”. There is
» millions of people considering HT who did not read the be aware here.
» Millions of people who trust doctors and who believe in them.
»
» Do you see my point? Medical profession has a privileged position and it
» is regulated much differently than the profession of other businessman’s.

I think you are confusing ideology with reality. In a perfect world, doctors act in the best interests of their patients and patients trust their doctors completely. That s what we want, that’s what everyone wants. But that we want something doesn’t necessarily mean that we will get it. In reality, we all know that it’s wishful thinking that people trust their doctors and believe in them. It is common for patients to seek “second opinions” from other doctors, why do you think patients are so prompt to seek “second opinions” if they trust that their own doctors in the first place?

58

» » » » » » Why is research a must for a person who was raised to trust
» » doctors,
» » » » who
» » » » » » was taught in school to trust doctors, who never before
» » encountered
» » » » » » wrongdoing of a doctor?
» » » » » »
» » » » » » Why an ordinary, average ,person, unaware of this kind of
» forums,
» » » who
» » » » » » wishes to get this widely advertised HT ,has to be aware of
» » » anything
» » » » » and
» » » » » » has to do researches online? Specially when HT is advertised as
» » non
» » » » » » invasive ,almost like going to a dentist? Do you do online
» » research
» » » » of
» » » » » » forums before you go to a dentist?
» » » » »
» » » » » What do you do when you need a doctor? You walk into any clinic
» » that
» » » has
» » » » a
» » » » » MD after someone’s name?
» » » »
» » » » I used to do just that. Like most people do. And please don’t find
» it
» » » so
» » » » strange because the doctors you found with good reputation got the
» » » » reputation BECAUSE most people act the way I did. TRUST THE DOCTORS
» A
» » » » PRIORI.
» » » »
» » » » Otherwise, now the reputable, would not have had any reputation ,
» » » because
» » » » they would have had no clients (who would go to them, a?) .The
» » “naive”
» » » » patients gave the rep that now the “aware” patient is using and
» calls
» » » the
» » » » “naive” patients stupid. Those doctors, talking about some research
» » and
» » » » awareness, should be brought in the time when they just finished
» » their
» » » med
» » » » school and started their practice.Then, I would like to hear them
» » » » preaching about research. What a joke. They mock the medical
» » » profession
» » » » and you all are nodding with your heads. Doctor and businessmen is
» » not
» » » and
» » » » it shouldn’t be the same thing, period.The medical field is not
» » » regulated
» » » » as a business
» » » »
» » » » Now I don’t trust them. I will only go to a doctor if i really have
» » to,
» » » » and after I try all possible alternatives.
» » » » Now, my opinion of doctors is low.
» » »
» » » I don’t know what it is like in Europe but in the US, doctor is the
» » same
» » » as businessman, the entire medical field is run like any other
» » businesses,
» » » no difference.
» »
» » There is difference.
» » Since the beginning , the proclamation of the medical profession has
» » always been to serve the needs of the patient. From the earliest
» origins
» » the profession of medicine has steadfastly held that physicians’
» » responsibility to their patients takes precedence over their own
» economic
» » interests. Thus the oath of Hippocrates
» »
» » And that has been the basis of a un written ,but existing, ”de
» » facto” agreement (call it contract) between modern society and the
» medical
» » profession ,the doctors. The way their system is organized and
» financed,
» » the way doctors work within it, and the way we think about health
» care,
» » and consequently the doctors, the ethical values and assumptions
» upon
» » the medical system in the US (and everywhere else) has long been based
» upon
» » those beliefs that I mention above.
» » In the eyes of the Law, the ethical assumptions for medical
» » professional and businessmen are not the same ,the treatment when
» » complaint is made against medical professional is different than that of
» a
» » complaint against businessman whose profession is other than medical.
» » Physicians have enjoyed a privileged position in society, virtually
» » assuring them of high social status and a good living. They have been
» » accorded these privileges in the expectation that they will remain
» » competent and trustworthy and will faithfully discharge the fiduciary
» » responsibility to patients proclaimed in their ethical codes. In this
» » country, the US, state governments grant physicians a licensed monopoly
» to
» » practice their profession and allow them considerable autonomy in
» setting
» » their educational and professional standards and their working
» conditions.
» » The professional education of physicians is heavily subsidized, because
» » tuition, even in the private medical schools, does not nearly cover the
» » costs of educating medical students. Furthermore, the information,
» tools,
» » and techniques that physicians use to practice their profession are
» usually
» » developed through publicly supported research. All that is because of
» the
» » assumption that the medical field and private business are NOT quite
» the
» » same thing.
» »
» » Now, after all that certain medical professional organization
» » should not accept appalling state of things. HT Doctors should set
» » their educational and professional standards and their working
» conditions
» » instead telling us ,few, on some internet forum “be aware”. There is
» » millions of people considering HT who did not read the be aware here.
» » Millions of people who trust doctors and who believe in them.
» »
» » Do you see my point? Medical profession has a privileged position and
» it
» » is regulated much differently than the profession of other
» businessman’s.
»
» I think you are confusing ideology with reality. In a perfect world,
» doctors act in the best interests of their patients and patients trust
» their doctors completely. That s what we want, that’s what everyone wants.
» But that we want something doesn’t necessarily mean that we will get it.
» In reality, we all know that it’s wishful thinking that people trust their
» doctors and believe in them. It is common for patients to seek “second
» opinions” from other doctors, why do you think patients are so prompt to
» seek “second opinions” if they trust that their own doctors in the first
» place?

If that is what we want, why not do something to get what we want, or get closer to what we want then? You say in a “perfect world” as in utopia. Ok ,but I was not speaking of a “perfect world” but something obtainable ,I was speaking about better world.

Seeking second opinion is ok, but I don’t follow your argument here. Seeking the second opinion does not mean that the patient did not trust the doctor before he got the first opinion. He did. That is why he went to see him/her, no? Why second opinion is sought is because the “verdict” of the first was hard to accept.
Seeking second opinion is perfectly ok and doesn’t have anything to do with HT doctors finally setting their educational and professional standards and their ethical codes.

59

» I think you are confusing ideology with reality. In a perfect world,
» doctors act in the best interests of their patients and patients trust
» their doctors completely. That s what we want, that’s what everyone wants.
» But that we want something doesn’t necessarily mean that we will get it.
» In reality, we all know that it’s wishful thinking that people trust their
» doctors and believe in them. It is common for patients to seek “second
» opinions” from other doctors, why do you think patients are so prompt to
» seek “second opinions” if they trust that their own doctors in the first
» place?

When you say “That s what we want, that’s what everyone wants” …that means that the HT surgeons want it too no? So if they say be aware, there is some worries that we should be aware of,no?

Well, worries can not be willed away by consciously refusing to deal with what is causing them .What’s causing them must be pulled up by the roots and examined in the light, not pushed down deeper into the unconscious, where those roots do darker mischief by distinguishing themselves in some bizarre manner.
Those who know what they want are able to take action and either achieve or miss their goal.

Ton of “repair” patients, as almost certain future, repeated HT patients, is not what HT medical society wants ,right?
If not,Is “be aware” all they Can (want?) do?

60

»
» I think you are confusing ideology with reality.

The festivities were going off most successfully. Business was good and in the club there was singing, playing, and dancing. Waiters hired from the club were flitting distractedly on the web chat rooms, dressed in black swallow-tails and dirty white ties. There was a continual hubbub and din of conversation.
Sitting side by side on the sofa, the most respected members and their junior apprentices , were talking hurriedly and interrupting one another as they discussed a case that involved a person, non-club member. He was an inventor, offering something new .That something had the letters F,E,and U in it.The Inventor was figuratively speaking, mocked and buried alive, but to be fair, the executioners from the club also gave their opinions on spiritualism as a fair measure. None of them believed in spiritualism, but all admitted that there is no perfect world and many things in this world would always be beyond the mind of man.
In the next room ,on the net, the literature masters, with moderation of true moderators, were explaining to the online visitors the case in which any has the right to fire on. The subjects, as you perceive, were alarming, but very agreeable. Persons whose position precluded them from entering were looking in at the windows from the yard.

Years passed by and the invention of the Inventor proved itself to be a success. More people wanted that which had the words F,E,U in it.

Every night the club members went into the kitchen to see whether everything was ready for supper. The kitchen from floor to ceiling was filled with fumes composed of goose, duck, chickens, beef and many other odours. On two tables the accessories, the drinks and light refreshments, were set out in artistic disorder. The cook, a red-faced man whose figure was like a barrel with a belt around it, was bustling about the tables. As more and more time passed by ,the cook reported to the club members that more and more F,E,U had been ordered from customers. In the overwhelming rush of their fancies, of artistic images of the past and sweet presentiments of happiness in the future, they for a moment sank into silence, merely moving their lips as though whispering to themselves…
The members decided it is time to talk about the menu They talked without ceasing, talked, hotly and genuinely; they were excited, carried away… To listen to them it would seem they had the future, fame, money, in their hands. Of course, it never occurred to them that time was passing, that every day life was nearing its close, that they had lived at other people’s expense ,because that was simply not true.Nothing yet was to be accomplished; if they also didn’t put the F,E,U on the menu. They did not know much about F,E,U but nevertheless ,it sels,and they were not bound by the inexorable law by which of a hundred promising customers only few get a good tasting ,F,E,U and all the others draw blanks in the lottery, and perish playing the part of flesh for the cannon. . . .because,that simply was not true.
As in every reform, F,E,U was once upon a time someone’s private opinion, someone’s invention.
But The club members are happy, and look the future boldly in the face! They did not introduced it on the menu, but, to be fair to them, to compensate they would rewrite the evolution of it… and tell us what is true…F…E…and please do research,and you will see for your self,that it was utterly impossible to be anything else.

Kitchen is open, all you can eat, research the menu and find what is your fancy.