I cant see how researchers are restricted in terms of communicating with one one another.
If you were to invite them here then I predict they would just get bombarded with questions from users and they wont learn anything new themselves. But it would benefit the users but that is beside the whole point isnt it?
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by HairlossCurse[/postedby]
I cant see how researchers are restricted in terms of communicating with one one another.
If you were to invite them here then I predict they would just get bombarded with questions from users and they wont learn anything new themselves. But it would benefit the users but that is beside the whole point isnt it?[/quote]
It’s a Win Win … for all of US, largely for them in concrete terms of raising the money on a public forum & networking with people who want to find them funding & working on reducing the red tape with Nigam in India & trusted China suppliers experimentals to community uses etc…Tell’em we want to CROWFUND and use Kickstarter etc… to finance their research to market via above…
But Hey why don’t you go ask their opinion yourself…on Facebook and Twitter to resolve this…about what we could do and about coming here to discuss what AGM Organizer listed as problem above about how to find them funding & how we can participate like Alopecia Areata…Dr. Nigam said he’s going to invite who he can here, but it’s up to us to assist them with fund raising…
Again
The First Step is to hit the their Twitter and Facebook for the conf, ( I say it over and over again, cos it has a ring to it…and it may sink in over 24 hours it’s active to go +)
HairCongress tweet link here at https://twitter.com/hair2013
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by drnigam[/postedby]
Dear Roger,ko,hairloss curse,
You all have been very encouraging and we had interacted with each other many a times…
Here i will have to agree with enthusiasm of FollicleSherlock…
I have seen atleast little bit of both sides…the scientific community and forum discussions.
HT SURGEONS(business owners) make much more money than these GREAT RESEARCHERS who are mostly employees of universities or commercial companies.
They do not have much incentive except if supported by commercial companies(financial support of the commercial companies also go to the universities,where they work) or feeling of appreciation,awards,recognition by the colleagues and the world at large.A lot of time as they are working for government or funded universities ,they cannot join as consultant to commercial hair companies.
I gave few of my research friends the idea to start consulting to smaller labs and hair product commercial companies and help them develop their products at a cost.
Forum members are of interest to HT surgeons as potential paying customers…but you never need to pay a researcher ,because you do not go to him for treatment even if he/she invented it.
Yes ,i agree a focus and organized approach is lacking…Researchers are not guys with business enterprise…they have to focus on research full time.
…[/quote]
Please ask researchers like Dr. Cotsarelis, Dr. Garza, and whom ever has a finding for prevention/regrowth to come and tell us exactly their plan and how much $ money they would need for us to raise for them.
We have access and can make it happen through posting on kickstarter & other sites like it, the community also already does purchase by organized fund raising for group buys $100k- 1$million a year in experimental chems without biological data we need such data on them & need a cost estimate for it.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by drnigam[/postedby]
My suggestion would be to begin with, hair site admin can have a separate section for scientists,researchers,and members with good research background.
In this section posters may be invited with invitation.
Senior posters can share the discussions at the normal forum threads ,with the rest of the forum members.
…
But remember …IT IS NOT JUST WHAT YOU KNOW…BUT WHAT YOU DO WITH WHAT YOU KNOW…
This is what exactly ,i am doing with the help of you all and making new friends …like the star researchers at WCHR 2013, to help share their findings and provide with applied facts(not just information) to reach cure asap…it is very much possible…
Once, such a private forum thread is formed with invitation than specific questions can be asked to the research community and suggestions can be forwarded…A lot can be done…
You should be aware, how much a forum or members are worth to HT doctors… and to regaine,finasteride, etc. They can all support , if their customers want it.[/quote]
there already exists a private forum for hair loss now that is by invitation only, just ask Boldy about it.
I would think this forum as is should be good enough, if that isn’t.
I think your 100k-1Mio is wildly exaggerated
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
I think your 100k-1Mio is wildly exaggerated[/quote]
I meant it on a yearly basis, I know PHG’s(a site I would never trust) Group buy for CB-03-01 to have a version of Cosmo Pharma drug in trials now was for $20,000, and that is only one of the many group buys this year and only one from one forum, I do not know the current amount brought in from the BNP chemical “group buy” just completed but it appeared to be more heavily prescribed… on another private forum and the upcoming one for the same chemical again on theirs.
But assuming $20,000 per GB x 10 per year (5 each forum) = $200,000
certain % goes to testing at a lab allegedly to make sure compound is real deal & purity.
why couldn’t a certain % say 10-25% go as a fee off top to research on a specific chemical we need biological data, or a newer one, to establish dosing safety and efficacy.
That would be about $20,000-$50,000 for getting the necessary Biological Data to move it forward, and raise some more from kickstarter and their competition or even better we as a group form a coop so these middleman for the producing labs/factories aren’t marking them up and giving us the right form as you pointed out with OC issues, and we have more of that money for the community to go to getting the trials done thru clinics like Dr. Nigam with low red tape… and have the biological data to boot.
well there is also a difference between people willing to donating money and people buying stuff for themselves. I think people are alot more willing to spend 100usd and have a glimmer of hope that it will reverse their baldness than spending 100usd to look at pictures which would probably be available to them regardless of whether or not they donate.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
I think your 100k-1Mio is wildly exaggerated
[postedby]Originally Posted by FollicleSherlock[/postedby]
I meant it on a yearly basis, I know PHG’s(a site I would never trust) Group buy for CB-03-01 to have a version of Cosmo Pharma drug in trials now was for $20,000, and that is only one of the many group buys this year and only one from one forum, I do not know the current amount brought in from the BNP chemical “group buy” just completed but it appeared to be more heavily prescribed… on another private forum and the upcoming one for the same chemical again on theirs.
But assuming $20,000 per GB x 10 per year (5 each forum) = $200,000
certain % goes to testing at a lab allegedly to make sure compound is real deal & purity.
why couldn’t a certain % say 10-25% go as a fee off top to research on a specific chemical we need biological data, or a newer one, to establish dosing safety and efficacy.
That would be about $20,000-$50,000 for getting the necessary Biological Data to move it forward, and raise some more from kickstarter and their competition or even better we as a group form a coop so these middleman for the producing labs/factories aren’t marking them up and giving us the right form as you pointed out with OC issues, and we have more of that money for the community to go to getting the trials done thru clinics like Dr. Nigam with low red tape… and have the biological data to boot.[/quote]
I am open minded.
I expect it is 2:54 pm Edinburgh time now, the window now is likely 2-3 hours, as many of presenters/attendees prepare to depart soon.
We need to have this dialogue with them, the money is here, we are arranging financing for them & how to do the trials with less expense & red tape with Dr. Nigam & assoc.
Only thing missing now are the researchers with Proposals we can have checks written for.
(perhaps they have their own individual facebook acts & twitter, or for labs etc…need to check while we have a “critical mass” in one place now to network & Dr. Nigam on the ground there for us.)
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
I am open minded.
well there is also a difference between people willing to donating money and people buying stuff for themselves. I think people are alot more willing to spend 100usd and have a glimmer of hope that it will reverse their baldness than spending 100usd to look at pictures which would probably be available to them regardless of whether or not they donate.[/quote]
Exactly. I agree completely. FollicleSherlock; in some ways I admire your energy and eagerness to be proactive. However, people have had this type of idea before. Unfortunately I feel you’re being too optimistic. I echo other posters in that you are probably new to this scene.
Even if you could hypothetically raise that amount of cash, it’s not very much in the grand scheme of things. What makes your plan completely fall apart is what hairman2 says. Look at this history of experimental threads in terms of their views and posts. There are tens of thousands of views with pages and pages of replies but only a handful of people are actually buying these products and experimenting with them. The vast majority of the hits are lurkers hoping to see some results and only then will they consider parting with some money for it. People in the hairloss community have been sold false promises left right and center and aren’t willing to give away money as willingly as you presume; in some vain shot-in-the-dark hope of some progress. This is further highlighted in how many people post to complain about prospective prices for future treatments.
Were on the first step of the plan, and that is just to get
Researchers to Dialogue to Submit their Proposals here for funding & support that is it.
This is a worldwide public channel, I don’t have to raise the cash, the one presenting the proposal & those interested do or already have access…no telling what group or private funding group may step forward or may be found to take advantage of the opportunity to present their proposal for $ funding for free here to the world.
step 5 which may be funding options, won’t become as apparent until you’re at step 4, not from step 1, which is where we are at, which is connecting the communities to dialogue & put forward a proposal(step 2).
The window of opportunity of a critical mass accessible at Congress is drawing to a close today. First deadline looms near.
(p.s. I am not new, been around long enough to see u join other forums)
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by FollicleSherlock[/postedby]
Were on the first step of the plan, and that is just to get
Researchers to Dialogue to Submit their Proposals here for funding & support that is it.
This is a worldwide public channel, I don’t have to raise the cash, the one presenting the proposal & those interested do or already have access…no telling what group or private funding group may step forward or may be found to take advantage of the opportunity to present their proposal for $ funding for free here to the world.
step 5 which may be funding options, won’t become as apparent until you’re at step 4, not from step 1, which is where we are at, which is connecting the communities to dialogue & put forward a proposal(step 2).
The window of opportunity of a critical mass accessible at Congress is drawing to a close today. First deadline looms near.
(p.s. I am not new, been around long enough to see u join other forums)[/quote]
Join time means nothing; you clearly haven’t deduced yet that most of the inane ramblings on hair loss forums aren’t worth contributing towards. All of your purported experience has clearly taught you nothing, you’re delusional. I was being polite before but your plan is ridiculous and you’re completely ignorant; you clearly have no idea how the scientific community works. Best of luck. P.S It’s 6:02pm here in Scotland; time is up.
Sounds like I offended you somehow, not my intent at all, certainly not attempting to be disagreeable.
Very simple this is a venue that is free for a Proposal to be submitted by any one of the researchers for financing to be found for free.
There are over 200 poster booths Dr. Nigam said, they will likely trash those posters as they found little to no funding this week cos they were at an academic conf of intellectually rich but cash poor audience, if they are smart they submit them here for funding and to be searchable by google by commercial interests that are intellectually poor and cash rich who could actually finance what they went to conf to get in the first place “financing”.
As regards this isn’t how the Scientific Community works, please re read both the Congress organizer and Dr. Nigam’s comments,
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by AGM[/postedby]
the money has to come from somewhere. Medical grant-giving bodies are very unlikely to fund research into male AGA so it comes either from piggy-backing on other projects or from commercial sources. Industry is only likely to provide funding if it sees a return on investment – this does happen but it’s not a very reliable source and, like everyone else, scientists have to make a living.
[left][/left][/quote]
there is almost zero funding happening for Androgenetic Alopecia right now and what research is I’ve deduced is happening at a snails pace (pgd2 etc.) likely in large part to the lack of funding(thus the another 5yrs you hear).
This is an opportunity for funding to be found, but first proposals need to be put on the web. .but right now nothing is happening since it isn’t treated like a medical condition, so the regular traditional rules of medical/science for other genetic medical conditions funding don’t apply.
So the worse that could happen by doing something, is to end up back where we are right now, but if successful in the off chance that they come and put proposal forward & someone knows a private equity group, or pharma given how tied in everyone is & that oft used Kevin Bacon how everyone is 6 degrees of separation from another…etc…then we have a Slam Dunk!
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by FollicleSherlock[/postedby]
Sounds like I offended you somehow, not my intent at all, certainly not attempting to be disagreeable.
Very simple this is a venue that is free for a Proposal to be submitted by any one of the researchers for financing to be found for free.
There are over 200 posters Dr. Nigam said above, they will likely trash those posters, if they are smart they submit them here for funding and to be searchable by google.
As regards the Scientific Community, please re read both the Congress organizer and Dr. Nigam’s comments, there is almost zero funding happening for Androgenetic Alopecia right now and what research is I’ve deduced is happening at a snails pace likely in large part to the lack of funding(thus the another 5yrs you hear).
This is an opportunity for funding to be found, but first proposals need to be put on the web. Dr. Nigam above found some for some people there, others get some commercial funding from business owners the Congress organizer pointed out…but right now nothing is happening since it isn’t treated like a medical condition.[/quote]
I am not offended but feel slightly indignant that you talk with such authority about a plan which is misguided at best with a tone that reads as if you feel we just don’t understand. I’m aware of the funding issues. What I’m not aware of is how them posting something here is suddenly going to gain them funding. The abstracts of everything presented at the conference in Edinburgh are readily available on the website of the host. Why does putting it on here make any difference, how will they get more funding by doing that? The mere fact that these people have results to publish means they know how to get funding to some extent by virtue of having already have done some research. If they saw merit in posting it on forums; you wouldn’t have to ask them, they would already be doing it.
double post - ignore it.
[postedby]Originally Posted by TylerDurden[/postedby]
“I am not offended but feel slightly indignant that you talk with such authority about a plan which is misguided”[/quote]
Misguided to open a dialogue with Hair researchers here step 1
step 2 submit proposals to get the attention of commercial funders,great it is on a site that few will read as it is now dated for a past conf,…putting it here on other places on net more than doubles the effort, with all of the motivated to find them such funding, it’s an unbeatable combination.
Researchers need us far more than we need them at least immediately as we can help for free to find them financing and they can showcase here for free…of course they need to come with the amount of money they need for what it is they need funding, that is not on any site right now.
In the long term, the funding I agree needs to come from established Medical Grants like for any medication, however as Conf. Organizer AGM said, Aga is treated as a cosmetic condition by the funders and Dr's not worthy of such.
I realize only once the facts regarding the linkages of Aga genetic medical condition with the systemic genetic links possibly now appearing due perhaps to LPGDs that plays a role in heart disease and prostate is regulated by androgen
Most of the studies are listed on this Hlh thread called "Are these Bald Genes you're wearing killing you?" under poster Science Google
Androgenetic alopecia: MedlinePlus Genetics From the Genetic Database.
"Androgenetic alopecia in men has been associated with several other medical conditions including coronary heart disease and enlargement of the prostate, a walnut-sized gland in males that is located below the bladder. Additionally, prostate cancer, disorders of insulin resistance (such as diabetes and obesity), and high blood pressure (hypertension) have been related to androgenetic alopecia."
The above information of Aga being possibly being a Systemic Genetic Medical Disease, is the main hope of this being treated as a true medical condition with appropriate medical funding…
hope that info and a push for recognition and detailing of that happens among Congress members who still have to fly out tomorrow.
Dear AGM organizer of the Hair Congress…
Please update us on when the videos of the Conference, including but not limited to Dr. Cotsarelis, Fuch, others are up on your site please, I understand it is suppose to be in 1 week, and keep checking, but not sure even where on your site to check, the moment you post them here the hits on your site will go through the roof!..I promise you
http://www.hair2013.org/ here is where I’ve been checking, is this the right page on your site and what date/time do they go up please, as we wait in anticipation.
Researchers keep their cards close to their chest.
I suspect they will hold back info until they can cut a deal with them getting some payoff.
Right now I would say that Dr. Nigam is our best bet and Histogen looks the most promising of all the treatments out there unless the cellular transplants prove to be compoundable. In that case it would be a tie.
No videos I’m afraid. Many scientists will not present key details of their research if their slides are being photographed. We had a ban on photography during sessions although this was widely ignored. We couldn’t afford video anyway. The abstracts of all the presentations have been published in the Journal of Investigative Dermatology (J Invest Dermatol 2013;133,1391-1439). This is available on the JID website but you need to pay or be a subscriber to access. I will investigate whether we can publish in open-access form but can’t promise this.
With regard to some other issues that have been raised:
- Some researchers do follow sites like this (I suspect industry does as well). To get them to contribute may be difficult, however. The slagging off (that I know about) and the advertising of dubious ‘treatments’ are inhibitory for a start.
- To find out about future hair research conferences consult any of the websites of the hair research societies e.g. ehrs.org, nahrs.org. There is no restriction on attendance providing you enter into the spirit of the event i.e. furthering knowledge (and pay a registration fee).
- Funding of research. To set up an international AGA funding body would be extremely difficult. It might be possible on a national basis, probably not in Europe but maybe in the USA. But it needs determined and enthusiastic leadership. An alternative approach is to join forces with one of the existing hair disorder patient support groups (e.g. National Alopecia Areata Foundation, Alopecia UK). I don’t know if they would be interested but no harm in trying. Do not expect rapid results. NAAF has been funding research into alopecia areata for around 20 years and we are only now seeing the possibility of new treatments. It can be a long hard road.
Since Areata is organized as a group and shows up impressively, AGA community is best served by combining forces with them, (perhaps some crossover in treatment eg. anti inflammatory etc. & definitely with Ht’s)
What is the first step to this Aga community joining forces with the Areata community?
Is there a particular person and/or site or who are the leaders?
finally if you or your community of Hair researchers are interested the advanced area’s of the Aga community online appear to be in order of significance.
-
This page on this site.
-
Hair Loss Help the Experimental Room there (secondarily main & ht room)
-
Stopaga.com private forum recently open to public involved in experimentals can register using usernames here, a short window of opportunity they are trying to open up.
-
Bald truth,
I did check for future conferences on some sites apparently this was the big conf. next one is Korea and after that perhaps North America…
Is there anything beyond these abstracts from this conf. and poster boards that one should look up to catch up on what they missed?
How does one go about contacting the poster board presenters to follow up on their research?
Particularly Ms. Annika Voight who presented on the follicle delivery methods and the presenters on the Topical Finasteride using Chitosan?
AGM, go check out stopaga.com apparently there is a Hair Loss think tank community of researchers, experiment oriented that are seeing what can be done to address your concerns for the research and to fund and organize and participate in future conferences with researchers, if you raise your concerns, they may find or create funding as well.
I know your presence along with all Hair Congress and Organizing Bodies has been requested there to share some of the steps and to support you with future congress dates, volunteers, and marketing of congresses.