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THE OFFICIAL POLL: Is donor density the same after strip harvesting?


#1

Lets make it official. I vote yes. Does anyone second this vote? :wink: All opinions and comments are very welcome.


#2

» Lets make it official. I vote yes. Does anyone second this vote? :wink: All
» opinions and comments are very welcome.
»

of course not…although if you have alot of fat wrinkles (extra skin a la Michael Jordan) on the back of your head, it might not be too affected after ONE big strip is taken out. The skin has to be stretched back to sew up again, pulling from both the top and beneath it. There is less SCALP period after a strip surgery…removing donor scalp, not mere hairs.

BTW-------------If the wounding protocol at Follica doesn’t work on the head…it still might be able to “make” more body hair for BHT’s later on. I wonder if anyone has thought of that? Follica is one more reason to peruse a FUE over strip at this point also. More hair can be “made” in the best donor-area scalp only if it is STILL THERE.


#3

» Lets make it official. I vote yes. Does anyone second this vote? :wink: All
» opinions and comments are very welcome.
»

it is physically impossible for the answer to be yes

lets take a balloon for example, the balloon is your skull
lets start with 100k hairs in the shape of a typical mans hairline

lets go in, and theoretically remove 30,000 hairs through strip…this may not be possible but it is just for example purposes

no matter how you rearrange the hair, on the balloon, …skull…the surface area of the skull remains the same…and now you have only 70k hairs on the same surface area

there is no way physically possible to even remove 10 percent of the hair without there being a decrease in density on the scalp


#4

It’s surely decreased if even the scalpel makes one incision in t:-| he area. As previously stated, its like a scalp reduction on the back of the head. Hello!


#5

» Lets make it official. I vote yes. Does anyone second this vote? :wink: All
» opinions and comments are very welcome.
»

you are serious you are a transplant clinic and u believe the density remains the same? do you tell this to your patients?
if so , this is called fr aud


#6

Mathematically you can not take something wihout changing something.

However to the eye it might still look the same, our eyes can be fooled easily (and that the ultimate goals during an HT)

With FUE and small instruments it is possible to remove 2000 or 3000 grafts and the casual observer will NOT find any evidence. Give him a magnifying glass and he will find traces of FUE however

Same with donor stretching after FUT. The normal in the street guy wont be able to detect it, but it is definately happening.

I guess there are thresholds that can be approached for both FUE and strip … going past a certain limit will cause visible thinning however. And as it is often the case in HT, variables are very patient depending.


#7

I think it is possible in theory.


#8

» I think it is possible in theory.

no it is impossible even in theory
the surface area remains the same and the amount of hair on that surface area…the donor site…decreases…thus it is impossible for the density to remain the same

please explain how it is possible even in theory, for the density to remain the same


#9

Hangin is right.

The total number of grafts on your head didn’t get bigger, and your skull didn’t get smaller. But after the surgery, there are a greater number of grafts in the recipient area.

Something had to give.

The scalp is being stretched over your whole head a little tighter. That means the hair in the donor area is being slightly thinned out when the smoke clears.

And the back of the neck’s hairline & the forehead hairline are probably being pulled a little bit closer together too. But this is not a free-lunch gain. In terms of your neck hairline moving upwards in back, you also could have just raided that area with FUE too for the same results. And as for your forehead skin moving backwards, well, that’s just enlarging the bald recipient area that you have to cover with HTs later!

HTs don’t create new hair, they don’t shrink the skull, and they increase the total area that the existing hairs are expected to cover. Simple mathematics demands a decrease in density.


#10

» Hangin is right.
»
» The total number of grafts on your head didn’t get bigger, and your skull
» didn’t get smaller. But after the surgery, there are a greater number of
» grafts in the recipient area.
»
» Something had to give.
»
»
»
» The scalp is being stretched over your whole head a little tighter. That
» means the hair in the donor area is being slightly thinned out when the
» smoke clears.
»
» And the back of the neck’s hairline & the forehead hairline are probably
» being pulled a little bit closer together too. But this is not a
» free-lunch gain. In terms of your neck hairline moving upwards in back,
» you also could have just raided that area with FUE too for the same
» results. And as for your forehead skin moving backwards, well, that’s just
» enlarging the bald recipient area that you have to cover with HTs later!
»
»
» HTs don’t create new hair, they don’t shrink the skull, and they increase
» the total area that the existing hairs are expected to cover. Simple
» mathematics demands a decrease in density.

Even CIT voted yes, obviously it is a loaded question in order to promote Cole’s fue.

No doubt about it, the density can be the same after strip. Most virgin scalps have enough laxity in the scalp, the loss in density (if any) will be minimal when the strip scar is sutured up. There is no excess skin left behind. No loss in density.


#11

you actually believe yourself , it appears

how do you propose…if density…equals hairs per sq cm of scalp…to account for the hairs that were removed, in the density equation

remove 3000 hairs …doesnt matter how much laxity the scalp has. it could be like an uninflated beach ball, doesnt matter…remove 3000 hairs…new density

is equal to old number of hairs minus 3000 divided by the same sq cm of skull area or scalp area

your math is fantasy land

the only way for the density to remain the same…is…

for the amount of hairs on that scalp area to not change
this can be accomplished by only two choices

1…there was no hair removed
2. the scalp area…if there was hair removed…decreases accordingly…I am not talking about the skin on the scalp. I am talking about the sq cm of skull that the donor hair sits on

there is also a third option

  1. the sides of the sutures are sewn together the density of the hair in the donor area remains the same…that is , the hair inside the confines of the hairline…and then the hairline above the neck , etc RISES, an equal amount to the amount of the strip cut out. in other words, cut out a one inch strip. the neckline hairline rises one inch

now this last option, truly is not even possible well it is, but it would look ridiculous, and the hair density in the skull area , donor area would stil have decreased dramatically…since you have basically re arranged the hair in that area totally. but

I guess if you are convinced you are correct, you wont let facts get in the way, much less logic


#12

We can debate whether the real-world impact of the density loss from srip HTs is noticeable. Some say it is, some say it isn’t. Depends on a lot of things.

But there can be no debate about whether some loss must technically occur with each strip HT or not. It must. Cannot get something for nothing.


#13

» We can debate whether the real-world impact of the density loss from srip
» HTs is noticeable. Some say it is, some say it isn’t. Depends on a lot of
» things.
»
» But there can be no debate about whether some loss must technically occur
» with each strip HT or not. It must. Cannot get something for nothing.

i agree that many times it may not be noticeable, and this is logical since they say you start to noticeably see thinning, with a loss of 50 percent…but the guys who say there is no density loss, are nuts


#14

» Lets make it official. I vote NO!. Does anyone second this vote? :wink: All
» opinions and comments are very welcome.
»

Sorry that was mistyped:-(


#15

» » Lets make it official. I vote NO!. Does anyone second this vote? :wink:
» All
» » opinions and comments are very welcome.
» »
»
» Sorry that was mistyped:-(

That’s more like it. You can’t take away and not expect density to be decreased. I thought density on different areas of the donor region varies anyways.


#16

» Lets make it official. I vote yes. Does anyone second this vote? :wink: All
» opinions and comments are very welcome.

I think the question isn’t clear for those who haven’t had ht.

Do you mean that some people are complaining that overall density of the hair in the donor area actually goes DOWN after the strip is removed?

Wouldn’t this mean that there is some additional hairloss in the donor area, like shock fallout, or a longer term thinning?

Have people observed this?


#17

» » Lets make it official. I vote yes. Does anyone second this vote? :wink:
» All
» » opinions and comments are very welcome.
»
» I think the question isn’t clear for those who haven’t had ht.
»
» Do you mean that some people are complaining that overall density of the
» hair in the donor area actually goes DOWN after the strip is removed?
»
» Wouldn’t this mean that there is some additional hairloss in the donor
» area, like shock fallout, or a longer term thinning?
»
» Have people observed this?

the density goes down , because the skin is stretched after the strip is removed


#18

» you actually believe yourself , it appears
»
» how do you propose…if density…equals hairs per sq
» cm of scalp…to account for the hairs that were removed, in
» the density equation
»
» remove 3000 hairs …doesnt matter how much laxity the scalp has. it
» could be like an uninflated beach ball, doesnt
» matter…remove 3000 hairs…new density
»
» is equal to old number of hairs minus 3000 divided by the same sq cm of
» skull area or scalp area
»
» your math is fantasy land
»
» the only way for the density to remain the same…is…
»
» for the amount of hairs on that scalp area to not change
» this can be accomplished by only two choices
»
» 1…there was no hair removed
» 2. the scalp area…if there was hair removed…decreases
» accordingly…I am not talking about the skin on the scalp. I
» am talking about the sq cm of skull that the donor hair sits on
»
» there is also a third option
»
» 3. the sides of the sutures are sewn together the density of the hair in
» the donor area remains the same…that is , the hair inside the
» confines of the hairline…and then the hairline above
» the neck , etc RISES, an equal amount to the amount of the strip cut out.
» in other words, cut out a one inch strip. the neckline hairline rises one
» inch
»
» now this last option, truly is not even possible well it is, but it would
» look ridiculous, and the hair density in the skull area , donor area would
» stil have decreased dramatically…since you have basically re
» arranged the hair in that area totally. but
»
» I guess if you are convinced you are correct, you wont let facts get in
» the way, much less logic

I wouldn’t even bother reading your entire post cause you have no clue. Let me make this plain and simple. You take away some grafts and at the same time you remove the skin. It a zero sum game, no loss in density, as simple as that. It’s not the same with fue. Fue doctors remove the grafts but they do not remove the skin so the density is lower over the same surface area.


#19

ever wonder why even the transplant clinics say the density decreases? and it is to their advantage to believe otherwise…sure doesnt help them get patients. But I guess the transplant docs are clueless in this instance right>

hey as long as you agree with yourself nothing else matters


#20

» ever wonder why even the transplant clinics say the density decreases? and
» it is to their advantage to believe otherwise…sure doesnt
» help them get patients. But I guess the transplant docs are clueless in
» this instance right>
»
» hey as long as you agree with yourself nothing else matters

Sorry for the previous confusing mistyping.

Any time you decrease the area of any donor or recipient area then you will decrease the density of that area. Many patients have different densities from one specific area of the donor area to another.

After a strip is harvested, the angles of the hair may even be skewed because of the differences of the varying desities above and below the site of extraction as well as the directions of hair growth.