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Shiny layer of skin on bald heads


#1

Does anyone know what causes the shiny layer of skin on bald heads? I’ve read different things such as it’s scar tissue or it’s a layer built of excess sebum. Does anyone know of any scientific evidence what exactly causes this layer?

I think it’s possible why wounding/peeling seems to cause some hair to grow is that you’re getting through this shiny layer. I’ve read that rubbing olive oil on the head at night and sleeping with it for about a week can help remove that layer. I don’t know if that works but I know that the skin on our body does prefer an acidic pH (outside) for normal exfoliation. Also, olive oil is very acidic. Perhaps putting anything healthy and acidic, such as apple cider vinegar or olive oil, would be good for removing that shiny layer (if it can be removed).

Finally, I know this next question should be in the natural forum but - has anyone tried this product? http://www.sainiherb.com/gallery.html pictures actually look good. If someone here got these kinds of results most everyone would be screaming it’s a miracle. Yes, I know it’s probably a scam but I’d just like to know if anyone has tried it and what they think.


#2

» Does anyone know what causes the shiny layer of skin on bald heads? I’ve
» read different things such as it’s scar tissue or it’s a layer built of
» excess sebum. Does anyone know of any scientific evidence what exactly
» causes this layer?

That’s the million dollar question, I’ve been trying to get an answer to this for over a year now and apparently no one has an answer and neither do people seem to have an interest in it. Surprinsingly, not even any medical website seems to talk about it. As of yet, we don’t even know if a shiny scalp is a good thing or a bad thing, so we can do something about it.

I even brought this question up twice, even put up a picture of Wentworth Miller, he trims his hair down to #2-#3 and you can clearly see his scalp shine in certain angles, Still that guy is a freakin NW0 - he doesn’t even have temples. That being said he doesn’t have a full beard either so maybe he just doesn’t have a highly expressed androgen receptor gene.

Ever since I noticed Wentworth’s shiny scalp with no hairloss, I have been paying attention to guys will full hairlines but shaved/trimmed hair. Actually, I have seen quite a few guys who have the shiny scalp, so I’m leaning towards it being normal. At the same time, what I hear on these boards is that once you see a shiny scalp all hope is lost in terms of any regrowh.

» Finally, I know this next question should be in the natural forum but -
» has anyone tried this product?
» http://www.sainiherb.com/gallery.html
» pictures actually look good. If someone here got these kinds of results
» most everyone would be screaming it’s a miracle. Yes, I know it’s probably
» a scam but I’d just like to know if anyone has tried it and what they
» think.

These pictures are of very poor quality (different lighting in before/after, small pics) and still not much difference - far from what I’ll call a miracle cure.


#3

usually its excessive collagen deposition underneath miniaturized follicles (known as perifollicular streamers). The outer root sheath also has collagen bundles in them and they get about 2.5 times as thick as normal, but the root sheath still is rather small and that might not be visible.

The sebaceous glands in advanced AGA get larger and “cauliflowered” also.

So the collagen (which is great for your face and makes you look younger) gets deposited around and underneath the follicle (like in other autoimmune disorders as the body is “rejecting an organ”) and the sebaceous glands near the surface of the skin also enlarge—these two things are “enough” to alter the appearance of the skin in many cases of advanced AGA, giving a guy that “shiny” smooth look. Both of them together are kinda photoprotective (sebum has some photoprotective properties) and end up helping a bald guy against getting too much sun up there, so there may be an evolutionary reason for this.

Kevin McElwee has went on record that he believes if hairs got the correct signals, they can secret enzymes that eat through the collagenous streamers and grow as normal. Transplanted hair grows just fine when moved up front and implanted in collagen-heavy skin, and it even has to grow through some scar tissue as a result of the transplantation process-----so its probably something “else” that keeps the hairs miniaturized, but the collagen certainly wouldn’t help.

Regrowing lost hair, especially in the front, is exceedingly difficult.


#4

» As of yet, we don’t even know if a shiny
» scalp is a good thing or a bad thing, so we can do something about it.

I don’t think it’s a good thing because my scalp, as with most NW5s, is shiny only where I’ve lost my hair in that typical horseshoe pattern.

» Actually, I have seen quite a few guys who have the shiny scalp, so I’m
» leaning towards it being normal.

Perhaps shiny scalp is normal with men with shiny hair. But my hair is more of a matte finish so my scalp is not shiny at all where I have hair. However, it’s shiny as a lighthouse where I’ve lost my hair.

» These pictures are of very poor quality (different lighting in
» before/after, small pics) and still not much difference - far from what
» I’ll call a miracle cure.

Try right clicking and saving the pictures. Some pictures are much bigger than shown on the website.


#5

» The outer root sheath also has
» collagen bundles in them and they get about 2.5 times as thick as normal,
» but the root sheath still is rather small and that might not be visible.

So it’s actually a layer of protein, specifically collagen, that causes this shiny layer. Given that, there must me some natural substance that can disolve the collagen. Alternatively, the swelling of the root sheath which is the source of the collagen could be shrunk with a natural anti-inflamatory. Tumeric is the most powerful natural anti-inflamatory. HairSite posted something about tumeric that showed it to be beneficial to hairloss on multiple fronts.

» Both of them together are kinda
» photoprotective (sebum has some photoprotective properties) and end up
» helping a bald guy against getting too much sun up there, so there may be
» an evolutionary reason for this.

There may be an “adaptation” reason for this but definitely not evolutionary. I just don’t believe evolution would bring about a disease like hairloss is. I’m a firm believer that most of our current diseases are a direct result of our diets, including cooking our food which only began about 10,000 years ago, and eating non-natural “foods.” I’d be willing to bet that before cooking food came about there was no such thing as baldness among humans. Just look at animals in the wild. Most of them die from anything other than disease.

» Kevin McElwee has went on record that he believes if hairs got the correct
» signals, they can secret enzymes that eat through the collagenous streamers
» and grow as normal. Transplanted hair grows just fine when moved up front
» and implanted in collagen-heavy skin, and it even has to grow through some
» scar tissue as a result of the transplantation process-----so its probably
» something “else” that keeps the hairs miniaturized, but the collagen
» certainly wouldn’t help.

This certainly gives us some hope.

» Regrowing lost hair, especially in the front, is exceedingly difficult.

I wonder why this is. Perhaps the structure of blood vessels that feed the scalp? Who knows?

Thanks for the information. Everything you said makes sense. It’s funny why websites I read come up with all kinds of different explanations for the shiny layer. Although, a build up of collagen could be considered scar tissue right?


#6

»
» There may be an “adaptation” reason for this but definitely not
» evolutionary. I just don’t believe evolution would bring about a disease
» like hairloss is. I’m a firm believer that most of our current diseases
» are a direct result of our diets, including cooking our food which only
» began about 10,000 years ago, and eating non-natural “foods.” I’d be
» willing to bet that before cooking food came about there was no such thing
» as baldness among humans. Just look at animals in the wild. Most of them
» die from anything other than disease.

Stumptailed macaques, a small ape that is one of our closest genetic matches, usually go bald. You can YouTube these monkeys as “Japanese Macaques” and look at their very-human-like faces. Both male and female macaques bald frontally pretty often. Finasteride regrows their hair much better than ours because there is no immunological component to their balding and no inflammation. Our immune systems are more evolved than theirs are. Macaques are often used to study baldness treatments and have been used to study finasteride, RU58841, latanaprost, and minoxidil.

Orangutans bald fairly often on their heads, the males that is.

Many bonoboos and some chimps also frontally bald. Bonoboos are supposedly our closest genetic relative

Many theories compete concerning primate baldness. Perhaps it was a way to help cool the larger brains, signal social maturity, a genetic aberration with the androgen receptor gene, etc.

Baldness comes down to you inheriting 2 genes. One on chromosome 20 and one variant of the androgen receptor gene. If you inherit both, you are seven times more likely to go bald. Studies that included thousands of men have concluded this amongst caucasian men in different areas. Other genes may ‘aggravate’ the condition, but these are the primary two. Its a roll of the dice.

»
»


#7

» » As of yet, we don’t even know if a shiny
» » scalp is a good thing or a bad thing, so we can do something about it.
»
» I don’t think it’s a good thing because my scalp, as with most NW5s, is
» shiny only where I’ve lost my hair in that typical horseshoe pattern.

I also talked about scalp being shiny in a bald areas more because of less hair to diffuse the shine. Thus scalp appearing to be more shiny!

»
» » Actually, I have seen quite a few guys who have the shiny scalp, so I’m
» » leaning towards it being normal.
»
» Perhaps shiny scalp is normal with men with shiny hair. But my hair is
» more of a matte finish so my scalp is not shiny at all where I have hair.
» However, it’s shiny as a lighthouse where I’ve lost my hair.

Everyone has shiny hair, the only difference is that somepeople have oily hair (result of overactive sebum glands) and some have dry hair (underactive sebum glands). Thus making hair look more or less shiny, it has nothing to do with scalp appearnce itself. Also, I have tried various deep cleansing shampoos including 3% salicylic acid ones that really clean out the pores. Being a NW6 myself, I can still see my scalp as shiny as it was before, so oil pretty much has nothing to do with shiny scalp as well.


#8

» usually its excessive collagen deposition underneath miniaturized follicles
» (known as perifollicular streamers). The outer root sheath also has
» collagen bundles in them and they get about 2.5 times as thick as normal,
» but the root sheath still is rather small and that might not be visible.

benji, Are you referring to fibrosis when you mentioned collagen deposition?

This is where everything gets fuzzy. Because I did post a link few months ago that said that fibrosis was found only in about 10% of the bald men, however, it was also found in about the same percentage of men with NO hairloss.

Remember the link that I posted few days ago of an article by Dr. Cotsarelis. That article also talks about development of fibrous tract beneath (not around) the hair follicle that makes it impossible for the follicle to go deep into the dermis and thus the follicle never really enters anagen fully.

Another thing that we did talk about earlier was the top of bald scalps being thinner than the sides. Being a NW6, I can attest to that, if I move my fingers over my head then I can notice a clear difference between the thickness of skin on top vs the sides of my scalp. It’s probably this thinness of the scalp due to which you can see a lot of bumps on a bald guys head, compared to a guy with shaved head. This is really obvious in Hitman (movie), when a naturally bald guy is trying to kill a shaved guy head and if you watch the movie in HD, you can clearly see bald guy’s head having lots of bumps on it and just looks unhealthy compared to the shaved guy.

I’ve been looking for an answer to thicken my scalp for a while now. Even contacted Dr. Pickart several times about it and even though his website claims that Copper Peptides are the magial ingredient required for skin renewal. Even he falls short of saying that CPs will restore a thinner scalp.


#9

IMO this issue is way overrated in regards to MPB.

I agree the change in the skin is definitely a sign of severe MPB-ing of an area. But everything I’ve read & seen makes me think it’s more of an effect than a cause. I see absolutely NO evidence that any amount of “unstopping” the follicles will cause them to regrow.

I know I’ve read at least once that when hair follicles have been re-awakened (immune system gone or something) within the collagened areas, the new hairs literally shoved the collagen/scarring aside and grow right out as normal. I can’t remember where I heard/read this now, but I know I did once.

Even when we still CAN’T reverse this change in the skin at a biological level, there’s still basically no holdup over it when a HT doctor implants donor grafts into this “damaged” layer. I think the worst I’ve ever read in regards to dealing with long-balded skin is that some HT clinics think it should be given some time to readjust to nourishing newly implanted follicles. They don’t want to load up a near-original-density transplant into these areas all on the first HT session.