Good pt Dr. Woods. But what about the lateral slits debate? I wasn’t buying that lateral slits produce more natural results before, that was until I saw his video it does make a lot of sense using lateral slits.
The description of the needle’s injection is near poetic. Very nice description, Dr. Woods. Thanks!
» Jessica,
» Is is correct then that Dr. Cole uses both needles and blades during
» single transplant? Thanks in advance.
Yes. He chooses based on what works best with the existing density, graft size, scalp tension, and area.
Thanks Dr. Woods for adding your perspective based on your extensive knowledge and experience. You and Dr. A have put forward the same argument and clarification on this. Unfortunately or fortunately, we patients want to be better informed about the details of procedures since there has been so much disinformation over the decades and I am sure that you would want that to be improved.
Surly these forums are great to allow confusing issues to be put to right by open debate otherwise you would not get the chance to counter what other surgeons or representatives suggest.
We need your input to rectify things but you are never going to sell the idea that Dr. H&W, Dr. Cole, Dr. A, Dr. Umar and Dr. Armani are all deceptive idiots that are only trying to con us.
» Hairsite, could you provide the series of photos we put up several years
» ago demonstrating what happens in reality when incisions are made in
» skin.
»
» Dr Ray Woods
As requested…
Marco, it is well known that I stay out of other posts unless I believe the forum is being misled.
I have challenged on many many occassions information which I considered deceptive or fraudulent. It is not that easy to do as the best defence is offence and the attack gets turned on me or it gets personal. I don’t need the aggravation, but I am compelled on occassion to protect the information integrity of this forum, no matter how many doctors/representatives I offend.
But if I have ever exposed information or challenged without clear understandable logical debate, justification, support, evidence or reasonable cause, then say so .
Please name one event.
Otherwise, I am told that the JOTRONIC VIDEO is doing the rounds on other sites. If anyone wants to quote my response to this, feel free.
And I thank hairsite for putting up the photos below showing what really happens.
Finally, I am in no way attacking Hasson and Wong. I don’t agree with strip, but there is little doubt that they are one of the best choices in this area.
I would also be very surprised if they had anything to do with this video.
Dr Ray Woods
I won’t get into a tit for tat here. I’ll just present the facts.
I am hardly one to be deceptive. I am more open than most and have been an educator for just over five years. I was the first to document in detail my hair transplant experience with photos. I shared the first photos that I know of of my own grafts being dissected. I showed my intra-operative progress, graft placement etc. I was the first to document my results as they were unfolding from day one, day by day, week by week, month by month. I was and am still the only one to show what the use of flash photography does when showing results. For hairlines, done right, the result will be twice as dense. For overhead and crown shots the result can be twice as thin. The list goes on.
No matter how you slice it (get it?) a needle is still bigger than a blade cut to match. A 25 gauge needle is 5mm in diameter. Turn a .5mm blade to see how thick it is and you get .23mm. That is a full 54% smaller than the needle. Look at a 21 gauge needle. It is .635mm. A comparatively sized blade is still only .23mm thick which is 64% smaller. I may not have a degree that requires spacial intelligence but it is clear that needles have more impact. The video was not to imply that one would have holes in their head. It was to show the difference in instrument size, which it does in spades. Call it what you will but it is undeniably the truth.
I was not being Sarcastic. I do admire your work. I appreciate your passion relating clarification of incorrect information.
You are adversarial though and that can drive participants away.
I would like you to know that if you decide to change profession then, despite your talents, I will not be offering you a position in my company.
» I won’t get into a tit for tat here. I’ll just present the facts.
»
» I am hardly one to be deceptive.
I do not think you were being deceptive. I think it is great to see the arguements and counter arguements.
One more time.
When a hypodermic needle enters, then exits the skin, the cut edges spring back and seal.
spring back and seal
spring back and seal
spring back and seal.
In a melon, its just a big nasty hole.
What you presented DOESN’T happen on skin
That is an established fact .
Your video presentation was based on a fundamental error, no matter how many times you played with your micrometer.
FACT: The diameter of a hypodermic needle shaft is greater than the tiny curved slit it creates in the skin.
So your measurements and comparisons are wrong
Dr Ray Woods
» One more time.
»
» When a hypodermic needle enters, then exits the skin, the cut edges spring
» back and seal.
» spring back and seal
» spring back and seal
» spring back and seal.
»
» In a melon, its just a big nasty hole.
»
» What you presented DOESN’T happen on skin
»
» That is an established fact .
»
» Your video presentation was based on a fundamental error, no matter how
» many times you played with your micrometer.
»
» FACT: The diameter of a hypodermic needle shaft is greater than the tiny
» curved slit it creates in the skin.
» So your measurements and comparisons are wrong
»
»
» Dr Ray Woods
This spring back and seal thing does not happen as well with the blades?
A hole and a slit heals differently?
Which one closes faster and with less trauma to the skin?
Because the way we see it in jotronics video a slit makes an easier and smaller entrance.
»
» This spring back and seal thing does not happen as well with the blades?
» A hole and a slit heals differently?
» Which one closes faster and with less trauma to the skin?
» Because the way we see it in jotronics video a slit makes an easier and
» smaller entrance.
The point that these surgeons are making is that contrary to what we might expect, a needle does not actually make a “hole” when injected into the skin. Dr. A Dr.W and Dr. Coles clinic are saying that the sharp end of the needle makes a curved slit and the thicker part of the needle forces the skin apart to a minor degree ready for the graft to be inserted. They are emphasising that no tissue is “cored out” inside the needle. If you think about it, it makes sense. Needles must have been designed that way or it would make quite a mess of us when we get an injection or when blood is taken. Dr. W is saying that the hard surface of the melon react quite diferently and is not representative.
I think that if you are a melon or a lemon then you would be better going to a surgeon that uses blades and of cause that is all I was trying to clarify in the original question sinse I am researching for my pet cat that has an unusual hairloss problem.
» »
» » This spring back and seal thing does not happen as well with the
» blades?
» » A hole and a slit heals differently?
» I was trying to
» clarify in the original question sinse I am researching for my pet cat
» that has an unusual hairloss problem.
»
Marco - you get an “A” for this one. LOL:-D
Again, as stated in the video very clearly, I am not trying to make anyone think that after a needle incision they will have a gaping hole in their head. Yes, the epidermis closes back onto itself forming a slit. This is because the needle does not have a cutting surface that runs the entire perimeter of the opening. That would be a punch. I liken this to being more of a flap. Make no mistake, the underlying tissue is more affected. Here is a screen shot from my video.
Also, my measurements are not wrong as our micrometers are quite accurate. I invite you to measure your own needles via video if you like. The result will be the same.
Again, one will not be left with a gaping hole so get that our of your mind now. Note however the surrounding tissue. There is a bruising effect that radiates out from the central insertion point. An exact replica of what happens in human tissue? No, but the effect is similar.
Now, notice the following image. I have taken the liberty of borrowing this as a screen shot from the previously posted time lapsed needle presentation posted by Hairsite. I have magnified then copied and pasted this image to the right for comparison. On the left I have inserted three arrows pointing to an outline of a crescent. Combine this with the crescent slit and we have a circle. This circle is outlined to the right in yellow. The shape and size suspiciously match that of the needle that was used for the insertion.
This shows that underneath the epidermis there is bruising. The slit is formed by the pressure of the surrounding tissue trying to close in thereby pushing the flap of tissue back into it’s former position. Underneath we have a somewhat faint yet discernible impression of the bruising underneath.
Now, if no one understands what I just pointed out, no worries. Here is the ultimate question. If you have a needle that is .5mm in diameter and a blade that is .5mm is width yet .23mm thick ( a full 54% smaller than the needle) which will make the smallest footprint, above and below the epidermis? This is not a trick question and yes the answer is just that obvious.
»
» I think that if you are a melon or a lemon then you would be better going
» to a surgeon that uses blades and of cause that is all I was trying to
» clarify in the original question sinse I am researching for my pet cat
» that has an unusual hairloss problem.
»
LOL i believe thats the best conclusion from this whole arguement…
Unfortunately unless you have seen direct post op from surgery and then again even a week or 2 after of both procedures. You are not going to get the real picture. Joe you are very knowledgeable in ht. I have had some good conversations with you in the past. There is just not one way to make the sites and since I am a recipient of these tiny little needles trauma is a none issue. Like your lateral slits it is in the hand of the operator not just the tool. Let’s just say I saw some lateral slit work with not such a skilled Doc as yours and it shocked out a lot of native hair and it was permanent. He had needles before and this did not happen. Also Doc Bernstein had seen me a few weeks after surgery and commented how clean and natural everything looked just 2 weeks after the surgery and that was the night after a seminar I got up in front of that David from Hairsite attended and had a look first hand. Joe though I do not work in the business I have been around long enough researchinhg ht’s 2000 on to know that skill, technique have to be a combined effort for a great outcome. I want to advise perspective patients to go out do the leg work and see for yourself. Then and only then will you know that whatever decision you make you covered all the bases. Use these ht boards as a start and not a end before you choose a ht.
» »
» » I think that if you are a melon or a lemon then you would be better
» going
» » to a surgeon that uses blades and of cause that is all I was trying to
» » clarify in the original question sinse I am researching for my pet cat
» » that has an unusual hairloss problem.
» » 
»
» LOL i believe thats the best conclusion from this whole arguement…
How about " L A S E R " incisons for Mr Billingsworth.
But how did Marco get Dr Evils cat ??..unless Marco IS Dr Evil, who is REALLY Dick Cheney…and the company is infact Halleburton…
As I write this black SUV’s are surrounding the house
From Dr Woods@guantanomobay.com
» » »
» » » I think that if you are a melon or a lemon then you would be better
» » going
» » » to a surgeon that uses blades and of cause that is all I was trying
» to
» » » clarify in the original question sinse I am researching for my pet
» cat
» » » that has an unusual hairloss problem.
» » »
» »
» » LOL i believe thats the best conclusion from this whole arguement…
»
» How about " L A S E R " incisons for Mr Billingsworth.
»
» But how did Marco get Dr Evils cat ??..unless Marco IS Dr Evil, who is
» REALLY Dick Cheney…and the company is infact Halleburton…
»
» As I write this black SUV’s are surrounding the house
»
» From Dr Woods@guantanomobay.com
All I want is to have frickin’ sharks with frickin’ laser beams attached to their frickin’ heads to make the recipient sites…but I will settle for sea bass. It’s a start.
Franklin,
You are correct that the steady hand of the doctor and his steady hand has a lot to do with the outcome. I had no intent of implying otherwise and I agree with you 100%. I made the video because I’ve had many people ask me over the years what the difference is between needles and blades, not to discredit various techniques. I have have my beliefs on what I see and I see a lot.
You touched on something that I think is very important. Using the online discussion boards for a start for research. It is empowering beyond what anyone could have imagined and has put knowledge in the hands of the patient instead of simple blind trust in our doctors. I’ve been there and few things are worse than putting your trust in a doctor only to have that trust violated. I know you understand this as well.
Using the boards as a start is only as effective as learning the ability to sort out what it is that is being shown and/or discussed. There are many things that are presented online that unfortunately is too many times taken for gospel because a doctor says it should be. Other times when patients have the good sense to ask questions the answers are rambling nonsensical diatribes that wind up not really answering the questions initially posed. I digress.
Marco,
I just have to know one thing. Where in the Hell did you find that pic? What did you do, Google search for “melon head on cat”? That was hilarious.
»
» You touched on something that I think is very important. Using the online
» discussion boards for a start for research. It is empowering beyond what
» anyone could have imagined and has put knowledge in the hands of the
» patient instead of simple blind trust in our doctors. I’ve been there and
» few things are worse than putting your trust in a doctor only to have that
» trust violated. I know you understand this as well.
»
» Using the boards as a start is only as effective as learning the ability
» to sort out what it is that is being shown and/or discussed. There are
» many things that are presented online that unfortunately is too many times
» taken for gospel because a doctor says it should be.
Franklin and Joe, that is so true.
» Marco,
»
» I just have to know one thing. Where in the Hell did you find that pic?
» What did you do, Google search for “melon head on cat”? That was
» hilarious.
Joe, I am sure that your video was made in good faith. This discussion has been educational and I am sure that there are advantages of blades in the hands of H&W which could be related to the ideas that you portrayed. It was good to see the other valid views and as you said above this is now so much easier with the online experience. Thanks.
All I have to say on the other issue is. “No melons or cats were hurt in the making of that picture.” 