Q&A with Dr. Paul Kemp, Intercytex - April 2008

» » yes, I wonder how it is possible commercialization after phase II, if
» the
» » UK has classified TRC as medicine, and requires phase III.
» » Maybe they plan to launch it in Spain after phase II??? :smiley:
»
» the FAQ on their site does say that they don’t know in which country
» they’ll launch it first. So they definitely aren’t pursuing US/UK as top
» priority…probably some country with less restrictions.
»
»
» Still what really bothers me is their attempts to hide phase-II results so
» far…this doesn’t sound good at all in terms of efficacy.

yes, it is surprising the lack of details. Not long ago, Kemp was going like HEY I GOT 66 NEW HAIRS IN MY OWN SCALP!! and now they are not allowed to say anything…MMMMH

Wow, they cannot even pretend to offer ‘good ole within 5 years’ now. Looks like they are trying to rewrite that old chestnut to ‘within TEN years’ :frowning:

bosley has 6 months to sign up trc after phase 2 is finished.

This is from intercytex website

“Intercytex intends to seek marketing/distribution partners for the male and female versions of ICXTRC. In 2004 an option was granted to Bosley giving it the first right to negotiate a distribution agreement for male ICX-TRC in return for certain payments linked to milestones. The option must
be exercised within 6 months of completion of the Phase II trial.”

» bosley has 6 months to sign up trc after phase 2 is finished.
»

It doesn’t matter anymore, even if they found someone to fund phase 3, it will be easily 5 years away. That ain’t gonna help.

» It doesn’t matter anymore, even if they found someone to fund phase 3, it
» will be easily 5 years away. That ain’t gonna help.

Yup…the only hope I have is that they figure out the right technique in phase-II (we’ll know next year) and then maybe proceed with commercialization in another country in H2 2009.

» » It doesn’t matter anymore, even if they found someone to fund phase 3,
» it
» » will be easily 5 years away. That ain’t gonna help.
»
» Yup…the only hope I have is that they figure out the right technique in
» phase-II (we’ll know next year) and then maybe proceed with
» commercialization in another country in H2 2009.

One thing I have never heard talked about in depth (I’ve been reading hairsite regularly since 2002) is the business model of how this product would be released and used. I know there is the common thought that this will market itself, but you know in the world of business, nothing markets itself.

Also, as Kemp said, Intercytex is a research company and I bet they have virtually no interest in having a hands on day to day working of their product. They will see their profits in the licensing.

ok, maybe this isn’t the best analogy but Bill Gates doesnt own a computer store…

I have had the good fortune of being in at the startup of numerous small businesses (60k to 3million)and I can only say it is a massive massive massive undertaking. And that is just a small business with a handful of employees. I can only assume what it must take to do an international release… and what other company in the world could really do that, let alone do it right now? I can only think it would be Bosley. They are set up all over the US and a few dozen other countries. (I would assume that is where small scale commerialization may come in. Another country that might not need all three phases of clearance.)

And yes, its true, this will be used as the biggest sales pitch to sell more Bosley transplants. I bet they are strategizing on the next series of late night infomercials, but as much as this is a curse, you could also look at it as a blessing because they could get this to market quicker than anyone else. If you don’t believe me, just try and open up a business… Even with money, its still tremendously time consuming and difficult, so Intercytex should be kept out of the loop. Its not their specialty and they probably would be really bad at it. And personally I think it wouldn’t really be much better to launch this treatment going through individual transplant docs. All but a few are rooted in the middle ages as it is with their techniques, and who ultimately would market this? I mean, the doctors with the best reputations on this board really couldn’t afford to market this nationwide. I know we all feel that all it would take is to get this out on some national news program but I think the reality is we make up a small fraction of a tiny percent of the population with our relentless obsession with hair, so the reality is that you would still need a massive marketing campaign for the general public. And who already does that as we speak? Bosley… infomercials, DVD’s in the mail, websites, print advertising, established storefronts, etc. etc… Its become a household name. You say Bosley to anyone one the street and they think of hair, you mention Armani and they think of a nice suit.

The barrier to commercial success for ICX-TRC is relatively low, being the ability to increase hair count in transplanted or thinning areas.

I wonder why this hasnt been talked about more. I think they covertly answered the question as to how effective the product they currently have is. I know this is a disappointment as it is not a true cure but seems it is a definite adjunct in the positive. It seems as they are saying they have something that will regrow hair, but its not going to stand alone. So I suppose if that is true, you might be a good candidate depending on where you are along with your loss, and also what your goals are, as in trying to advance 1 or 2 norwood scales, or 5 or 6, overall thickening or a complete restart? I also guess that the current pictures show growth, but are mostly unimpressive cosmetically to someone in the general public. Sparse regrowth does not attract investors and is most likely not a good selling point to the uneducated. But if you look at the transplant board, there are growing numbers of people trying chest hair, arm pit hair and even pubic hair to fill in the blanks on their scalp. This is probably a welcome product for that segment of the population, but like I said, to the average guy that doesn’t lurk on these boards, they probably wouldn’t give it the time of day.

My guess, for what its worth, is that Bosley will use this to sell more hairmill transplants, but since we are light years more educated that the average consumer looking for getting more hair, we can approach this sensibly. I bet they will try and sell you a bad hairline along with TRC, but my guess is you can shrewdly get the ICX treatment at Bosley and FUE work at a more reputable, skilled doctor to refine the framing of the face, because the bottom line for Bosley is the bottom line… making money. And trust me, I’m not championing Bosley at all… I think its a shame that it seems to be going this route but you have to look at it from a business point of view and how both parties are going to maximize their efforts to make the most amount of money they possibly can.

I wouldn’t count TRC out completely, but possibly a moderately good workable step in the right direction.

But yeah, at least three more years… thats sucks, dudes.

.I TOTALLY AGREE IF THEY HAD WORTHY PRODUCT IT WOULD
» HAVE BEEN ON NEWS LIKE ROBOT ANNOUNCEMENT,KEMP WANTS SOMEONE TO CARRY THE
» BATON ON WITH WHAT THEY HAVE GOT.AT LEAST HE HAS PRODUCED SO CALLED HAIR
» ON HUMAN SCALP:-|

Yeah- and I noticed the ICX or Aderan’s technology made the “back pages” of NBC’s Donny Douche while Follica made their front page on The Today Show with Matt Lauer. Makes you wonder who has the real deal.

where you live knucklehead??? in Mars? intercytex does not show resulted, it does not present photos, it does not show volunteers….they wake up for the reality. because to more wait 4… 5 years for a product as finasteride improved? intercytex not and better that this, because to pay thousand of dollars for a mediocre treatment as this? dr. kemp said 4 years before willys would make bruce a full head in 16 hours, today in optimum of the cases can together with be used a HT… FOLLICA IS OURS BETTER HOPE….

Pat
I’m convicing myself about the ICX TRC technology -as Cotsarellis said- isn’t enough.
It’s not sufficient only putting staminal cells on the scalp, but also activate the growth process in some way (wnt, wound, other cells, …).

I think that the Kemp’s hope is to discover till phase II end this third variable. At thwe moment the efficacy is probably LOW and ICX is searching for increasing it.

You’re right of course; the technology needs refinement (efficacy), but it’s clear that some part of the formula increases hair counts.

Personally, I think a professional outfit would achieve better results. A better outfit would: 01) test a much larger group (no shortage of participants willing to sign their life away), and 02) they would disclose details to raise their stock value 03) this, in-turn, would put a positive marketing spin on the company.

Let’s face it, the ICX cohorts were too small. To my knowledge, none were treated multiple times to see if TRC will increase density with repeat treatments, yet good-ol DR Kemp told hairsite we must wait “until the phase II data is in” before he can tell us if repeat treatments are possible. Once again, how could/will he know? They never re-treated anyone, and they don’t plan on treating anymore patients. His comments don’t add-up.

So once again, I believe we’re dealing with the right technology in the WRONG hands. I think the Indian company experimenting with HM will do a better job than Intercytex…

.

Follica in Mexico is the nearest answer IMO.

» So once again, I believe we’re dealing with the right technology in the
» WRONG hands. I think the Indian company experimenting with HM will do a
» better job than Intercytex…

India could definitely be better testing ground…you can easily get trialists by offering them $100 and load up their scalps with DPs :smiley:

Plus the cost of the staff/doctors there is really low too…so that should definitely bring down the cost of trial

Yes, knucklehead, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
I mean, having Bosley to conduct Phase III.

ICX has used Farjo to conduct Phase I and II.
Farjo is a hair transplant clinic.

So it seems that ICX prefers to use HT clinics to do all the job with the trialists.

Thus, given the large-scale magnitude of Phase III, its not surprising that they seek to use Bosley clinics as the platform to do Phase III.
Also, Bosley could fund all the process, and gather expertise for commercial launch after Phase III is completed.

If this happens, Phase III could be done very fast, becasuse Bosley have big resources. And commercial launch would be very fast too.

So, if this is the plan, this would mean that everything is fine, and TRC keeps going. Now the question is: why ICX is being so secretive about the Phase II trial?

I think we will have to wait until Phase II is completed and data analyzed(Q2/Q3 2009) and then, 6 months, to see if Bosley is interested on a deal.
That is, we will have to wait until Q1 2010 to see if TRC has some future. Until then, I am afraid we will be left alone in the dark. :frowning:

» Yes, knucklehead, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
» I mean, having Bosley to conduct Phase III.
»
» ICX has used Farjo to conduct Phase I and II.
» Farjo is a hair transplant clinic.
»
» So it seems that ICX prefers to use HT clinics to do all the job with the
» trialists.
»
» Thus, given the large-scale magnitude of Phase III, its not surprising
» that they seek to use Bosley clinics as the platform to do Phase III.
» Also, Bosley could fund all the process, and gather expertise for
» commercial launch after Phase III is completed.
»
» If this happens, Phase III could be done very fast, becasuse Bosley have
» big resources. And commercial launch would be very fast too.
»
» So, if this is the plan, this would mean that everything is fine, and TRC
» keeps going. Now the question is: why ICX is being so secretive about the
» Phase II trial?
»
» I think we will have to wait until Phase II is completed and data
» analyzed(Q2/Q3 2009) and then, 6 months, to see if Bosley is interested on
» a deal.
» That is, we will have to wait until Q1 2010 to see if TRC has some future.
» Until then, I am afraid we will be left alone in the dark. :frowning:

It’s not fine. Why did you say it’s fine. The fact that this will very likely be 4-5 years away is NOT FINE!!!

yes, its true, 5 years sucks.
Furthermore, 5-year predictions have proved to be useless.
Saying 5-years is like saying nothing.

That is why, right now, we are in the dark, and we don’t know what is going to happen.

There’s a very simple way to learn something about the scalp condition’s effects on the hair regrowth of TRC:

Test TRC on thinning (but definitely still terminal) areas of a scalp instead of shiny-bald areas.

» Follica in Mexico is the nearest answer IMO.

It’s 5 years away at least. They have to yet to start phase I. Statistics says it will take them 10 years from now on before they finish trials and very probably they will give up or fail.

these guys will probably sell the technology to Bosley with some sort of royalty… it’s that simple…

i suspect the results are not promising and they have extended phase 2…

bottom line: stop obessing about hair loss and get on with your life

» yes, it is surprising the lack of details. Not long ago, Kemp was going
» like HEY I GOT 66 NEW HAIRS IN MY OWN SCALP!! and now they are not allowed
» to say anything…MMMMH

you don’t know the details of the deal they ahve with Bosely… i suspect they are told to keep the results secret : good or bad

this is about BUSINESS, not catering to everyone’s desparation on this board…

Bosley still does strip. I wouldn’t let those phucks touch my head unless HM was a very consistent winner. You’d be getting another donor scar, albeit a small one. Donor scars make buzzcuts a no-no. I dont trust Bosley…even if HM worked “pretty well”, they’d probably half-way do it so you’d have to come back two or three times. Bosley is a despicable outfit that has led many men into multiple surgeries. Their business model is to extract as much money from a man as humanely possible over several surgeries. They used to place hairlines too low and make them somewhat pluggy on purpose to guarantee a second surgery. AT first, they warned against finasteride gravely hoping men wouldn’t get on it and would keep on losing hair----letting Bosley chase a “moving target” with multiple surgeries every five years or so----literally costing a man a fortune. This was all done as a BUSINESS MODEL. Alot of the higher ups at Bosley were there from the old days (seventies, eighties, early nineties) in sales----scum personified.

I really really really dont want THIS company in particular administering HM. I hope it gets licensed in Europe at the same time. I’ll be hoping on a plane if thats the case in the future…but it looks like it would be closer to ten years out to me now anyway.

Remeber all the posts about “patience” JB used to put up. Well, now we all get our chance in regards to HM. Hopefully Follica will have something.

I’m sure “Dr.” Bosley has learned his lesson by now. :wink: