Proof of a cure

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
1

I’m the one who came up with the criteria to prove a cure :

“Verifiably demonstrate the transformation of five NW 6 guys into NW 1/2”.

Lately Dr. Nigam has posted the case of a patient who is NW 5/6 and is undergoing HM + DP cell treatment. His plan is to turn 5500 harvested hairs into 11,000 hairs. He says this will meet the criteria of creating a NW 5/6 to NW 1/2 transformation.

But this does not meet the criteria. It has to be a real NW 1/2 transformation, not just the appearance of a NW 1/2 hairline.

A NW 1/2 person has approx 100,000 hairs on his head. Merely creating 11,000 hairs is only 10% of the way there. If he can replicate this 9X over, he would have demonstrated a cure.

Second its impossible to tell if 5500 hairs transplanted have actually doubled to 11,000 hairs by visual inspection alone.

So while I really appreciate Dr. Nigam’s effort, unless he plans to take the patient’s hair count all the way to a true NW 1/2, I will remain unconvinced.

There should be some kind of million dollar X prize for the first researcher to verifiably demonstrate a cure for baldness. Not that he’ll need a million dollar prize because the cure itself would be worth many hundreds of billions of dollars.

2

Yes,Freddie,i remember your challenge.
It could happen faster,if some one does all the markings,i will provide the pics as required.I will do doing complete before and after hair count on this patient.
The contentment of such conversion as per your criteria will be provide greater happiness than the associated money ,which will be the byproduct.

Trying my best,but hopefull in coming months

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
I’m the one who came up with the criteria to prove a cure :

“Verifiably demonstrate the transformation of five NW 6 guys into NW 1/2”.

Lately Dr. Nigam has posted the case of a patient who is NW 5/6 and is undergoing HM + DP cell treatment. His plan is to turn 5500 harvested hairs into 11,000 hairs. He says this will meet the criteria of creating a NW 5/6 to NW 1/2 transformation.

But this does not meet the criteria. It has to be a real NW 1/2 transformation, not just the appearance of a NW 1/2 hairline.

A NW 1/2 person has approx 100,000 hairs on his head. Merely creating 11,000 hairs is only 10% of the way there. If he can replicate this 9X over, he would have demonstrated a cure.

Second its impossible to tell if 5500 hairs transplanted have actually doubled to 11,000 hairs by visual inspection alone.

So while I really appreciate Dr. Nigam’s effort, unless he plans to take the patient’s hair count all the way to a true NW 1/2, I will remain unconvinced.

There should be some kind of million dollar X prize for the first researcher to verifiably demonstrate a cure for baldness. Not that he’ll need a million dollar prize because the cure itself would be worth many hundreds of billions of dollars.[/quote]

3

“A NW 1/2 person has approx 100,000 hairs on his head. Merely creating 11,000 hairs is only 10% of the way there. If he can replicate this 9X over, he would have demonstrated a cure.”

That’s not true, because when a person is a classic NW 6/7, they are not missing all of those 100,000 “hairs” (you mean terminal follicles). The classic NW 6/7 is missing roughly half of those terminal follicles and still has hair of relatively normal density on the sides and back of his scalp. (Note: I’m talking about the classic NW 6/7, not extreme cases where hair on sides/back has thinned consdiderably. In a classic NW 6/7, there is no perceivable need to restore hair on the sides or back of the scalp, as coverage in those places is considered sufficient.)

So, in this classic NW 6/7, let’s say only about 50,000 terminal follicles or terminal hairs need to be replaced.

Therefore restoring 11,000 terminal follicles gets you 1/5 of the way, or more, to that point.

4

Dr Nigam said:
“It could happen faster,if some one does all the markings,i will provide the pics as required.I will do doing complete before and after hair count on this patient.”

Dr Nigam, for each patient case, may I suggest that you also show before and after photos of your patients with their hair fully grown out to “normal” length, and not just with their scalps shaved?

I think you need to show 4 sets of photos:

  1. An initial set of “before” photos showing the patient from various angles with his hair grown out to several centimeters (e.g., 5-6 cm or whatever is the normal or typical length for him to wear his hair);

  2. Another set of “before” photos with the scalp shaved, taken from different angles, to show removal and insertion points, scalp landmarks or tattoos, etc.;

  3. A set of “after” photos taken from different angles with the scalp shaved, to show insertion and removal points, etc. as above;

  4. A final set of “after” photos taken from different angles, with the patient’s hair grown out to several centimeters once again, to show what the final result looks like when the patient wears his hair at “normal” length.

Thank you for all the hard work and great research you’re doing!

5

Not only that, I dont know the exact number… But I think you can lose up to 50% of your hair density without appearing to be balding. So lets say you lost 50,000 hairs, 25,000 new hairs should do the trick.

6

And even the 25,000 number assumes that the original 100,000 follicles were equally distributed over the head. If there are naturally more hairs on the sides and back of the head than on the top, that 25,000 number goes down.

Also, contrary to the original poster’s position, I think if a doctor can show that he can consistently turn one donor area follicle into two or more, proof of a “cure” (reversal) for baldness has been shown to a degree that would satisfy most balding men. If a doctor can do that to the same follicles repeatedly over time, the only thing keeping a person from having a full head of hair would be time and money.

BUT, we must never forget that the doctor must also be a skilled artist when it comes to IMPLANTING all that newly created hair. If he isn’t, all we’ll get is a lot of weird looking hair on our heads.

7

My point is that anyone who claims to have a cure has to transform a NW6 to NW2 for real. Not just give the appearance of a NW2 hair line.

By the end of it, a NW6 person should have a total of 100,000 hairs +/- 20,000 hairs on his head to be a real NW2.

It should be indistinguisable from a normal NW2 man walking the street both on visual inspection AND running hands through the hair.

Anything less than that and its nothing more than optical trickery and is NOT a cure. Its a half-assed solution.

Now don’t water down the above criteria for a cure because you’ll be getting all kinds of charlatans claiming they’ve cured baldness when all they’ve done is a hair transplant & fancy comb over. Don’t give me an argument about how many hairs constitutes a NW2 or other meaningless stuff. I’m setting the bar high so there is no doubt nor confusion as to the criteria for a cure.

To summarize : I want to see & feel a NW6 turn into a NW2 for real and nothing less.

8

Freddie what you are describing is current gen transplants. If Dr. Nigam can actually multiply hair there will actually be some “heft” behind that illusion! Theoretically when you achieve that illusion you can keep adding to it! Think of it as an evolving work in progress.

Not only that, if you started going bald you can just do a yearly touch-up and your baldness will never see the light of day! So I will boldly say that if Nigam is actually multiplying hairs he has a solution for new hair loss sufferers. Think about it, a new hair loss sufferer is not a candidate for a transplant… Only a crook doctor would recommend it.

Now lets do some math here. I dont have the biggest head but I took a crude measurement of a simulated norwood 7 area on my head. I calculated a bald patch 4 inches wide going 7 inches back from my scalp to my crown. Assuming this area is completely 100% bald we have a 28 square inch area of complete bald scalp. Now lets say we put 500 hairs per square inch of complete bald scalp 28 X 500 = 14,000 hairs! Unless my math is way off I think 14,000 new hairs in that area would be a pretty significant difference. Now lets say you double the number to 1000 hairs per square inch you will need 28,000 hairs.

Think about this for a minute… Do you really think you will look bald with 1000 hairs per square inch of your scalp? If your completely bald on top I can see Harvesting the new hair on top and using the donor in the rear as well to really speed up the doubling after a few sessions. Dr. Nigam say we harvest a new garden of hair on top of the scalp can we start doubling that hair as well?

9

I repeat, do not muddy up the definition of a cure. I am only talking about a cure here and nothing else.

If indeed anyone has the cure, they should have no problem transforming a NW6 into a NW2 - a real one with 100k hairs total. Not the illusion of one.

To date, not a single person on planet earth has demonstrated that. Anything less may be the next best thing to a cure, but NOT a cure.

I’m holding out hope Nigam can achieve his initial 11,000 hair target and from there on, continue increasing hair counts till the patient has a full NW2 head of hair.

If he cannot achieve that, there’s no 2 ways about it - he does not have the cure.

Please do not create some alternate definition of a cure as it only causes confusion.

10

I understand what you are trying to say but I think different forum members have a different definition of the word “cure.” Even by your standard of the word this is not a cure. A cure by definition would be a complete restoration of what the patient previously had. Are we talking childhood hair density here? Realistically we will not see that cure for a while.

I am not trying to sprinkle fairy dust here! My definition of a cure is a full head of hair that has a good density and looks natural. Lets say pre-hair-loss I had a density that was much higher then what Nigam can give me now. I would consider a cure something that looks good and feels good. I mean yes if you compare original density to the corrected density you would see the difference only because you are directly comparing.

Our good hair transplant doctors now are more artists then doctors. They create this “illusion” you speak of. If you have the unlimited density to work with, doctors wont be as reliant on their artistic abilities.

Logistically if Nigam is actually multiplying hairs the “cure” is theoretically possible. Probably not practical but if you can keep multiplying whats to stop you from attaining 200,000 hairs on your scalp? Why stop there lets cover our foreheads as well!

Basically lets see what Dr. Nigam can do here! I personally feel he will need to refine the technique more to really see significant results fast. For example 3 or 4 hairs out of 1. Otherwise we will see results at a much slower pace.

11

Freddie,faker,
Have a look at the 18th day macro pics of 15G test patch,showing 90 follicle generation from 23 follicles extracted from the donor.

http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/Day18/Recipient/Large/Recipient.jpg
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/Day18/Donor/Large/Donor.jpg

Dp cells which i started using recently, gives me hope,
the patients will start receiving dp culture from 6 weeks,lets see what happens.
These extra follicles are only because of dpcell,stemcell injections supported with growth factors.

At present i can live upto fakers expectation…unless i see the effect of dp culture injections in coming months when may be we can come closer to fredddie’s definition,initial result like this patch test is encouraging with isolated dp cells in its culture media.But i will only stop when i will reach freddies definition…it will take some months…but can happen.

iv][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
I repeat, do not muddy up the definition of a cure. I am only talking about a cure here and nothing else.

If indeed anyone has the cure, they should have no problem transforming a NW6 into a NW2 - a real one with 100k hairs total. Not the illusion of one.

To date, not a single person on planet earth has demonstrated that. Anything less may be the next best thing to a cure, but NOT a cure.

I’m holding out hope Nigam can achieve his initial 11,000 hair target and from there on, continue increasing hair counts till the patient has a full NW2 head of hair.

If he cannot achieve that, there’s no 2 ways about it - he does not have the cure.

Please do not create some alternate definition of a cure as it only causes confusion.[/quote]

12

I am not looking for a cure, just a head full of hair with minimal cost. That would be a cure for me. Let’s cure cancer, lung diseases, etc.

13

Hi Dr. Nigam,

Thanks for the pics, its looking hopeful.

Have you tried aggregating these cultured DP cells prior to injecting them? Perhaps in some bio-degradable membrane sac or something.

Maybe what’s needed to form a hair follicle is a critical mass of DP (and other?) cells in close promixity - something which can’t be achieved by injecting loose cells alone. Early on Aderans was experimenting with a scaffold. I don’t know what became of that.

Also have you tried transecting the hair follicles into more than just 2 pieces? i.e. 4 or 8 pieces. I know it’ll be hard but perhaps only a very, very small portion of the follicle is needed + DP cells to regenerate a follicle.

If there’s any help you need in tracking down information or individuals, feel free to post a request for help in the forum. I’m sure the hoard of bald brothers here will be more than glad to help in any way they can.

14

I was skeptical at first, but this looks really interesting. It matches Dr Washenik’s idea that the first gen would be to thicken up HTs, and the results posted on the website are not total transformations, but distinct improvements.

Out of curiosity, why do 50-150 grafts need to be extracted? Shouldn’t only a few grafts provide the necessary cells?

15

Freddie,
If you can find articles and research on techniques to aggregate isolated dp cells.
Aggregation of dp culture cels take few more weeks after the culture,which we can do,infact going further to form a dp organoid which secretes growth factors and extracellula matrix.
From tomorrow i plant to add gsk3inhibitor and vitd3 inti the storage media after isolation of dp cells,at present in the petridish we keep culture media of dermal pappila cells.
Our first dp culture injections of the patient will be ready in 3weeks and than we will see how much hm results improve in coming months.
Now with every hm case we also send the follicles for dp culture,for 6 weeks.
Injecting dp cells into the extraction point of donor has already shown new generation of follicle.

[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by Freddie555[/postedby]
Hi Dr. Nigam,

Thanks for the pics, its looking hopeful.

Have you tried aggregating these cultured DP cells prior to injecting them? Perhaps in some bio-degradable membrane sac or something.

Maybe what’s needed to form a hair follicle is a critical mass of DP (and other?) cells in close promixity - something which can’t be achieved by injecting loose cells alone. Early on Aderans was experimenting with a scaffold. I don’t know what became of that.

Also have you tried transecting the hair follicles into more than just 2 pieces? i.e. 4 or 8 pieces. I know it’ll be hard but perhaps only a very, very small portion of the follicle is needed + DP cells to regenerate a follicle.

If there’s any help you need in tracking down information or individuals, feel free to post a request for help in the forum. I’m sure the hoard of bald brothers here will be more than glad to help in any way they can.[/quote]

16

I’m curious to know - what’s the difference between your protocol and Aderans’ or Replicel’s?

KO

17

Dr. Nigam,

I have come to this site on and off for years. I have to say that you are the most open, transparent and open-minded of the researchers and experts who have been here to inform us. Your approach seems very pragmatic and devoted to solving the problem for real people. It’s not the norm and I appreciate it.

18

I’ll try to find articles on techniques to aggregate dp cells Dr. Nigam.

One that I had pointed you to earlier (but which may have got lost in the noise) is a patent filed by Colin Jahoda & Angela Christiano in 2010. They are also in the race to develop a method for growing hair. Christiano has her own private company for that purpose.

METHODS FOR COMPACT AGGREGATION OF DERMAL CELLS
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100303767

Essentially they are using a hanging drop method which is plated in rows in a petri dish. The drop contains DP cells + epithelial cells + enzyme/s that supposedly are involved in the formation of a “dermal condensate” (precursor to a hair follicle formation).

From there they have some process to compact the whole condensate into what looks like a marshmellow (see below). I presume that’s what gets implanted into the skin - a little barrel of epithelial & dermal cells.

Might be worthwhile to try out their method and create an array of drops with slightly varying growth factor compositions/concentrations.

That’s just my lay person’s opinion. Sounds like you’re doing quite well without my suggestions however so keep going!

20100303767_07.png1024×1320 39.2 KB