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Pretty new Australian news... don\'t think this was posted on HS before


#1

Truth coming soon…

But, while you’re waiting, take a look at this…

http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/style/yeah-yeah-its-cloned-hair-20090615-c7x4.html

Yeah, yeah, it’s cloned hair. Melbourne scientists are trying to cure baldness once and for all by using stem cells to grow a potentially endless supply of new hair.

If successful, cloning would overcome the shortcomings in existing hair-loss treatments.

Hair transplant surgery, for example, can redistribute hair over balding areas but does not create new hair. Drugs such as minoxidil and finasteride can stop balding in men, but can’t reverse it and need to be taken indefinitely. Other options tend to involve fake hair, including “yeah, yeah” Shane Warne hair, which is a technically advanced hairpiece.
Scientists from St Vincent’s Hospital and Melbourne University, headed by St Vincent’s dermatology director Rod Sinclair, have extracted adult stem cells from hair follicles and are trying to coax them to spawn new hair follicles in a culture dish.

“We’ve now got three stem cell scientists in our department working on hair follicle stem cells,” said Professor Sinclair. “They’re working out what’s involved in cloning hair follicles for hair transplantation.”

That’s harder than it sounds. A full hair, including its follicle, is an entire organ by itself. The body will reject hair transplanted from somebody else, just as it will reject other transplanted organs.
Professor Sinclair said the stem cells were extracted from the base of the hair follicle, the dermal papilla.

“You can dissect out a tiny ball of about 3000 cells. If you put that ball into a culture dish, that ball will flatten out into a thin sheet of cells,” Professor Sinclair explained.

Ideally, that sheet of cells should “aggregate to form new balls (so) you can take out those balls and reimplant them to form new hairs”.
Unfortunately, he said, the sheet of cells was only producing one ball instead of many balls.

“The state of play at the moment is that I can cut some hairs off the back of your head, grow them in culture, and get enough back to replace the hairs that I took from the back of your head. We can’t amplify them to produce more hairs. That’s the problem,” he said.

The other major challenge is implanting the baby hair follicles back into the skin once that’s done. "You have to put the stem cells in a scaffold, insert the scaffold into the skin, the scaffold makes the hair follicle grow in the right orientation and direction, and then disintegrates . . . Just growing a hair is not enough.

“You want one that grows in the right direction with the right colour and curl and wave so that it looks natural.”

Professor Sinclair’s group is one of a number of research bodies in the world investigating hair cloning, each using a slightly different method.
British group Intercytex reported last June that early trials in humans had proved promising, with some of the subjects regrowing hair. “What Intercytex are doing is very similar to what we’re doing but I think they have a lot of problems trying to get the cells to reaggregate,” Professor Sinclair said
Other baldness research is focused on trying to re-invigorate the hair follicles that shrink on top of the head and cause baldness in the first place. Scientists are trying to pin down the genes that cause baldness with the goal of blocking their expression in young men who have those genes.
Intercytex got a rush of male volunteers for its clinical trials. But if the follically challenged have thoughts about being guinea pigs for St Vincent’s, be patient. Animal trials, due in about a year, must come first.
Researchers are currently using scalp tissue that has been discarded from people undergoing surgery.

“It would be possible to start animal implantation experiments in one to two years, but human experiments are at least three to five years away,” said Professor Sinclair.

So, by 2020, will the age-old baldness problem be licked permanently - at least for those who can afford it? “Yes, it’s a possibility.”


#2

At the end of the article it seems they contradict the headline and imply they haven’t got there yet.

No cloned hair but hopes to do it.

By 2020 bla bla bla new hair bla bla bla.
This time at last is not 5 years away but a more realistic 10 years away.
Maybe in 10 years they says 20 years away and so on.


#3

Instead of wasting money on HT, 2020,we’re gonna have time to save our money for hair cloning :stuck_out_tongue:


#4

So, by 2020, will the age-old baldness problem be licked permanently - at least for those who can afford it? “Yes, it’s a possibility.”

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH… crazy.


#5

This is actually one of the more credible research projects around for hair regeneration… At least they are using real stem cells AND aren’t dealing with the FDA.


#6

If one of the other HM projects comes to market first, then most of us won’t care how far off this thing is or how it works.


#7

At least they’ve come to terms with the fact that this isn’t going to be figured out in “5 years”. I remember when I was a child - maybe 10 or so - and I saw a doctor talking about a baldness cure being discovered in “the next 5 years”. That was 20 years ago…


#8

» At least they’ve come to terms with the fact that this isn’t going to be
» figured out in “5 years”. I remember when I was a child - maybe 10 or so -
» and I saw a doctor talking about a baldness cure being discovered in “the
» next 5 years”. That was 20 years ago…

The butchers from UK,Jeremy from the Norton clinic said 15 years a few years ago.I hate to think he might be right.

ROLL ON HM!


#9

» » At least they’ve come to terms with the fact that this isn’t going to be
» » figured out in “5 years”. I remember when I was a child - maybe 10 or
» so -
» » and I saw a doctor talking about a baldness cure being discovered in
» “the
» » next 5 years”. That was 20 years ago…
»
» The butchers from UK,Jeremy from the Norton clinic said 15 years a few
» years ago.I hate to think he might be right.
»
» ROLL ON HM!

Agreed, this seems like it is the case & its time to face the facts. Of course, I’m NEVER going to give up hoping it comes earlier or that it will work for my particular case.


#10

» If one of the other HM projects comes to market first, then most of us
» won’t care how far off this thing is or how it works.

True, but what if they don’t come to market first? I mean we waited for Intercytex how long? And now they’re history?

When you say “one of the other HM projects”, which ones are you referring to? Seems to me we only have one viable project, Aderans. The others being talked about here aren’t even HM projects by any stretch.


#11

» » If one of the other HM projects comes to market first, then most of us
» » won’t care how far off this thing is or how it works.
»
» True, but what if they don’t come to market first? I mean we waited for
» Intercytex how long? And now they’re history?
»
» When you say “one of the other HM projects”, which ones are you referring
» to? Seems to me we only have one viable project, Aderans. The others being
» talked about here aren’t even HM projects by any stretch.

When you say “one of the other HM projects”, which ones are you referring
to? Seems to me we only have one viable project, Aderans. The others being
talked about here aren’t even HM projects by any stretch.

Good question.Anyone please let us know who the viable ones are in the HM game now?


#12

» » » If one of the other HM projects comes to market first, then most of us
» » » won’t care how far off this thing is or how it works.
» »
» » True, but what if they don’t come to market first? I mean we waited
» for
» » Intercytex how long? And now they’re history?
» »
» » When you say “one of the other HM projects”, which ones are you
» referring
» » to? Seems to me we only have one viable project, Aderans. The others
» being
» » talked about here aren’t even HM projects by any stretch.
»
» When you say “one of the other HM projects”, which ones are you referring
» to? Seems to me we only have one viable project, Aderans. The others
» being
» talked about here aren’t even HM projects by any stretch.
»
» Good question.Anyone please let us know who the viable ones are in the HM
» game now?

Histogen isn’t HM, per se, but if its results are compoundable, then it’s a viable option for increasing hair count.

Trichoscience is another interesting company. I personally think it’s the dark horse in the HM chase. They’re not keen on making big, unsubstantiated claims, but they’ve been in the game as long as many of the other players. Plus, their scientific team is trustworthy.


#13

Roger, you are an idiot, and reading the replies to your post, it seems that you are not the only idiot in this forum.

Roger, you always attack HM research, saying that it will take too long to come, and you recommend HT instead. You somehow pretend to be well informed, but you are not.

You have just posted an article about HM research. Somehow, you think that this article is interesting, and it represents the state of the art in HM.

But note:

  1. They are using DP cells, not STEM CELLS as stated in the article.
  2. These idiots from AU have not even started animal studies. So where is the thrill to post an article about them?
  3. They are not even capable of multiplying hair, as they can only produce 1 hair from each harvested hair.
  4. They say that cells need an scaffold, but from the article, it seems that they haven’t developed any scaffold yet.
  5. In other words, these guys have NOTHING except a few conventional experiments expanding DP cells on a petri dish.

roger_that=MORON
Dr. ROD SINCLAIR and the AU Team=MORONS
SMH.COM.AU=MORONS
FIRST REPLIERS TO THIS THREAD=MORONS

After 10 years in this forum, it is depressing to see this kind of articles and this kind of replies.

» Truth coming soon…
»
» But, while you’re waiting, take a look at this…
»
» http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/style/yeah-yeah-its-cloned-hair-20090615-c7x4.html
»
»
» Yeah, yeah, it’s cloned hair. Melbourne scientists are trying to cure
» baldness once and for all by using stem cells to grow a potentially endless
» supply of new hair.
»
» If successful, cloning would overcome the shortcomings in existing
» hair-loss treatments.
»
» Hair transplant surgery, for example, can redistribute hair over balding
» areas but does not create new hair. Drugs such as minoxidil and finasteride
» can stop balding in men, but can’t reverse it and need to be taken
» indefinitely. Other options tend to involve fake hair, including “yeah,
» yeah” Shane Warne hair, which is a technically advanced hairpiece.
» Scientists from St Vincent’s Hospital and Melbourne University, headed by
» St Vincent’s dermatology director Rod Sinclair, have extracted adult stem
» cells from hair follicles and are trying to coax them to spawn new hair
» follicles in a culture dish.
»
» “We’ve now got three stem cell scientists in our department working on
» hair follicle stem cells,” said Professor Sinclair. “They’re working out
» what’s involved in cloning hair follicles for hair transplantation.”
»
» That’s harder than it sounds. A full hair, including its follicle, is an
» entire organ by itself. The body will reject hair transplanted from
» somebody else, just as it will reject other transplanted organs.
» Professor Sinclair said the stem cells were extracted from the base of the
» hair follicle, the dermal papilla.
»
» “You can dissect out a tiny ball of about 3000 cells. If you put that ball
» into a culture dish, that ball will flatten out into a thin sheet of
» cells,” Professor Sinclair explained.
»
» Ideally, that sheet of cells should “aggregate to form new balls (so) you
» can take out those balls and reimplant them to form new hairs”.
» Unfortunately, he said, the sheet of cells was only producing one ball
» instead of many balls.
»
» “The state of play at the moment is that I can cut some hairs off the back
» of your head, grow them in culture, and get enough back to replace the
» hairs that I took from the back of your head. We can’t amplify them to
» produce more hairs. That’s the problem,” he said.
»
» The other major challenge is implanting the baby hair follicles back into
» the skin once that’s done. "You have to put the stem cells in a scaffold,
» insert the scaffold into the skin, the scaffold makes the hair follicle
» grow in the right orientation and direction, and then disintegrates . . .
» Just growing a hair is not enough.
»
» “You want one that grows in the right direction with the right colour and
» curl and wave so that it looks natural.”
»
» Professor Sinclair’s group is one of a number of research bodies in the
» world investigating hair cloning, each using a slightly different method.
» British group Intercytex reported last June that early trials in humans
» had proved promising, with some of the subjects regrowing hair. “What
» Intercytex are doing is very similar to what we’re doing but I think they
» have a lot of problems trying to get the cells to reaggregate,” Professor
» Sinclair said
» Other baldness research is focused on trying to re-invigorate the hair
» follicles that shrink on top of the head and cause baldness in the first
» place. Scientists are trying to pin down the genes that cause baldness with
» the goal of blocking their expression in young men who have those genes.
» Intercytex got a rush of male volunteers for its clinical trials. But if
» the follically challenged have thoughts about being guinea pigs for St
» Vincent’s, be patient. Animal trials, due in about a year, must come
» first.
» Researchers are currently using scalp tissue that has been discarded from
» people undergoing surgery.
»
» “It would be possible to start animal implantation experiments in one to
» two years, but human experiments are at least three to five years away,”
» said Professor Sinclair.
»
» So, by 2020, will the age-old baldness problem be licked permanently - at
» least for those who can afford it? “Yes, it’s a possibility.”


#14

» Anyone please let us know who the viable ones are in the HM
» game now?

E.g. in Europe one of the biggest players in this segment is the Moser Medical Group (MMG - similar like Bosley in US) in Germany and Austria. They’re working in their own labs on hair growth products since 2000.

In 2005 one of their researchers (Dr. Krugluger) has been the one who has been the first who “cloned” human hair follicle (unpigmented white hair similar like vellus hair) in a petri dish. Because of that, MMG Germany works since 2007 together with the L’Oréal Group (France) and since 2008 MMG Austria with the Beiersdorf AG (Germany) – similar like Aderans did with Bosley, but these 2 companies did not bought MMG - just cooperations. Intention of these two cooperations: Breeding of biotechnological hair follicle - in vitro.

Clinical trails already running …

That means, e.g. Aderans and other in the US (or anywhere) well known companies, should NOT believe they are the only one on this planet. And as far as I know, really big companies like L’Oreal and Beiersdorf AG working with tissue engineering technology since a very long time. That means, this two big companies in combination with the experiences of MMG (which has been the reason for cooperations), it could absolutely be possible that they will be the first one on market, because they both now working on it since some years with “high pressure” - as far as I can read in german articles. So, who knows …


#15

» Roger, you are an idiot, and reading the replies to your post, it seems
» that you are not the only idiot in this forum.
»
» Roger, you always attack HM research, saying that it will take too long to
» come, and you recommend HT instead. You somehow pretend to be well
» informed, but you are not.
»
» You have just posted an article about HM research. Somehow, you think that
» this article is interesting, and it represents the state of the art in HM.
»
» But note:
» 1. They are using DP cells, not STEM CELLS as stated in the article.
» 2. These idiots from AU have not even started animal studies. So where is
» the thrill to post an article about them?
» 3. They are not even capable of multiplying hair, as they can only produce
» 1 hair from each harvested hair.
» 4. They say that cells need an scaffold, but from the article, it seems
» that they haven’t developed any scaffold yet.
» 5. In other words, these guys have NOTHING except a few conventional
» experiments expanding DP cells on a petri dish.

You tell Roger he’s an idiot, when you were one of the people applauding WeWillWin and hanging on his every word, in his ridiculous post about a bogus experiment?

You are truly pathetic! You are a writhing monstrosity of patheticness. Plus, you don’t even have a clue about the science.

» Dr. ROD SINCLAIR and the AU Team=MORONS
» SMH.COM.AU=MORONS
» FIRST REPLIERS TO THIS THREAD=MORONS
»
» After 10 years in this forum, it is depressing to see this kind of
» articles and this kind of replies.
»
» » Truth coming soon…
» »
» » But, while you’re waiting, take a look at this…
» »
» »
» http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/style/yeah-yeah-its-cloned-hair-20090615-c7x4.html
» »
» »
» » Yeah, yeah, it’s cloned hair. Melbourne scientists are trying to cure
» » baldness once and for all by using stem cells to grow a potentially
» endless
» » supply of new hair.
» »
» » If successful, cloning would overcome the shortcomings in existing
» » hair-loss treatments.
» »
» » Hair transplant surgery, for example, can redistribute hair over
» balding
» » areas but does not create new hair. Drugs such as minoxidil and
» finasteride
» » can stop balding in men, but can’t reverse it and need to be taken
» » indefinitely. Other options tend to involve fake hair, including “yeah,
» » yeah” Shane Warne hair, which is a technically advanced hairpiece.
» » Scientists from St Vincent’s Hospital and Melbourne University, headed
» by
» » St Vincent’s dermatology director Rod Sinclair, have extracted adult
» stem
» » cells from hair follicles and are trying to coax them to spawn new hair
» » follicles in a culture dish.
» »
» » “We’ve now got three stem cell scientists in our department working on
» » hair follicle stem cells,” said Professor Sinclair. “They’re working
» out
» » what’s involved in cloning hair follicles for hair transplantation.”
» »
» » That’s harder than it sounds. A full hair, including its follicle, is
» an
» » entire organ by itself. The body will reject hair transplanted from
» » somebody else, just as it will reject other transplanted organs.
» » Professor Sinclair said the stem cells were extracted from the base of
» the
» » hair follicle, the dermal papilla.
» »
» » “You can dissect out a tiny ball of about 3000 cells. If you put that
» ball
» » into a culture dish, that ball will flatten out into a thin sheet of
» » cells,” Professor Sinclair explained.
» »
» » Ideally, that sheet of cells should “aggregate to form new balls (so)
» you
» » can take out those balls and reimplant them to form new hairs”.
» » Unfortunately, he said, the sheet of cells was only producing one ball
» » instead of many balls.
» »
» » “The state of play at the moment is that I can cut some hairs off the
» back
» » of your head, grow them in culture, and get enough back to replace the
» » hairs that I took from the back of your head. We can’t amplify them to
» » produce more hairs. That’s the problem,” he said.
» »
» » The other major challenge is implanting the baby hair follicles back
» into
» » the skin once that’s done. "You have to put the stem cells in a
» scaffold,
» » insert the scaffold into the skin, the scaffold makes the hair follicle
» » grow in the right orientation and direction, and then disintegrates . .
» .
» » Just growing a hair is not enough.
» »
» » “You want one that grows in the right direction with the right colour
» and
» » curl and wave so that it looks natural.”
» »
» » Professor Sinclair’s group is one of a number of research bodies in the
» » world investigating hair cloning, each using a slightly different
» method.
» » British group Intercytex reported last June that early trials in humans
» » had proved promising, with some of the subjects regrowing hair. “What
» » Intercytex are doing is very similar to what we’re doing but I think
» they
» » have a lot of problems trying to get the cells to reaggregate,”
» Professor
» » Sinclair said
» » Other baldness research is focused on trying to re-invigorate the hair
» » follicles that shrink on top of the head and cause baldness in the
» first
» » place. Scientists are trying to pin down the genes that cause baldness
» with
» » the goal of blocking their expression in young men who have those
» genes.
» » Intercytex got a rush of male volunteers for its clinical trials. But
» if
» » the follically challenged have thoughts about being guinea pigs for St
» » Vincent’s, be patient. Animal trials, due in about a year, must come
» » first.
» » Researchers are currently using scalp tissue that has been discarded
» from
» » people undergoing surgery.
» »
» » “It would be possible to start animal implantation experiments in one
» to
» » two years, but human experiments are at least three to five years
» away,”
» » said Professor Sinclair.
» »
» » So, by 2020, will the age-old baldness problem be licked permanently -
» at
» » least for those who can afford it? “Yes, it’s a possibility.”


#16

haha haha haha ahahahaha.
stem cells, lol, my ass.

pd. I clearly said that WWW could be a troll, but I wanted him kept posting to find out.

» » Roger, you are an idiot, and reading the replies to your post, it seems
» » that you are not the only idiot in this forum.
» »
» » Roger, you always attack HM research, saying that it will take too long
» to
» » come, and you recommend HT instead. You somehow pretend to be well
» » informed, but you are not.
» »
» » You have just posted an article about HM research. Somehow, you think
» that
» » this article is interesting, and it represents the state of the art in
» HM.
» »
» » But note:
» » 1. They are using DP cells, not STEM CELLS as stated in the article.
» » 2. These idiots from AU have not even started animal studies. So where
» is
» » the thrill to post an article about them?
» » 3. They are not even capable of multiplying hair, as they can only
» produce
» » 1 hair from each harvested hair.
» » 4. They say that cells need an scaffold, but from the article, it seems
» » that they haven’t developed any scaffold yet.
» » 5. In other words, these guys have NOTHING except a few conventional
» » experiments expanding DP cells on a petri dish.
»
»
» You tell Roger he’s an idiot, when you were one of the people applauding
» WeWillWin and hanging on his every word, in his ridiculous post about a
» bogus experiment?
»
» You are truly pathetic! You are a writhing monstrosity of patheticness.
» Plus, you don’t even have a clue about the science.
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
» » Dr. ROD SINCLAIR and the AU Team=MORONS
» » SMH.COM.AU=MORONS
» » FIRST REPLIERS TO THIS THREAD=MORONS
» »
» » After 10 years in this forum, it is depressing to see this kind of
» » articles and this kind of replies.
» »
» » » Truth coming soon…
» » »
» » » But, while you’re waiting, take a look at this…
» » »
» » »
» »
» http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/style/yeah-yeah-its-cloned-hair-20090615-c7x4.html
» » »
» » »
» » » Yeah, yeah, it’s cloned hair. Melbourne scientists are trying to cure
» » » baldness once and for all by using stem cells to grow a potentially
» » endless
» » » supply of new hair.
» » »
» » » If successful, cloning would overcome the shortcomings in existing
» » » hair-loss treatments.
» » »
» » » Hair transplant surgery, for example, can redistribute hair over
» » balding
» » » areas but does not create new hair. Drugs such as minoxidil and
» » finasteride
» » » can stop balding in men, but can’t reverse it and need to be taken
» » » indefinitely. Other options tend to involve fake hair, including
» “yeah,
» » » yeah” Shane Warne hair, which is a technically advanced hairpiece.
» » » Scientists from St Vincent’s Hospital and Melbourne University,
» headed
» » by
» » » St Vincent’s dermatology director Rod Sinclair, have extracted adult
» » stem
» » » cells from hair follicles and are trying to coax them to spawn new
» hair
» » » follicles in a culture dish.
» » »
» » » “We’ve now got three stem cell scientists in our department working
» on
» » » hair follicle stem cells,” said Professor Sinclair. “They’re working
» » out
» » » what’s involved in cloning hair follicles for hair transplantation.”
» » »
» » » That’s harder than it sounds. A full hair, including its follicle, is
» » an
» » » entire organ by itself. The body will reject hair transplanted from
» » » somebody else, just as it will reject other transplanted organs.
» » » Professor Sinclair said the stem cells were extracted from the base
» of
» » the
» » » hair follicle, the dermal papilla.
» » »
» » » “You can dissect out a tiny ball of about 3000 cells. If you put that
» » ball
» » » into a culture dish, that ball will flatten out into a thin sheet of
» » » cells,” Professor Sinclair explained.
» » »
» » » Ideally, that sheet of cells should “aggregate to form new balls (so)
» » you
» » » can take out those balls and reimplant them to form new hairs”.
» » » Unfortunately, he said, the sheet of cells was only producing one
» ball
» » » instead of many balls.
» » »
» » » “The state of play at the moment is that I can cut some hairs off the
» » back
» » » of your head, grow them in culture, and get enough back to replace
» the
» » » hairs that I took from the back of your head. We can’t amplify them
» to
» » » produce more hairs. That’s the problem,” he said.
» » »
» » » The other major challenge is implanting the baby hair follicles back
» » into
» » » the skin once that’s done. "You have to put the stem cells in a
» » scaffold,
» » » insert the scaffold into the skin, the scaffold makes the hair
» follicle
» » » grow in the right orientation and direction, and then disintegrates .
» .
» » .
» » » Just growing a hair is not enough.
» » »
» » » “You want one that grows in the right direction with the right colour
» » and
» » » curl and wave so that it looks natural.”
» » »
» » » Professor Sinclair’s group is one of a number of research bodies in
» the
» » » world investigating hair cloning, each using a slightly different
» » method.
» » » British group Intercytex reported last June that early trials in
» humans
» » » had proved promising, with some of the subjects regrowing hair. “What
» » » Intercytex are doing is very similar to what we’re doing but I think
» » they
» » » have a lot of problems trying to get the cells to reaggregate,”
» » Professor
» » » Sinclair said
» » » Other baldness research is focused on trying to re-invigorate the
» hair
» » » follicles that shrink on top of the head and cause baldness in the
» » first
» » » place. Scientists are trying to pin down the genes that cause
» baldness
» » with
» » » the goal of blocking their expression in young men who have those
» » genes.
» » » Intercytex got a rush of male volunteers for its clinical trials. But
» » if
» » » the follically challenged have thoughts about being guinea pigs for
» St
» » » Vincent’s, be patient. Animal trials, due in about a year, must come
» » » first.
» » » Researchers are currently using scalp tissue that has been discarded
» » from
» » » people undergoing surgery.
» » »
» » » “It would be possible to start animal implantation experiments in one
» » to
» » » two years, but human experiments are at least three to five years
» » away,”
» » » said Professor Sinclair.
» » »
» » » So, by 2020, will the age-old baldness problem be licked permanently
» -
» » at
» » » least for those who can afford it? “Yes, it’s a possibility.”


#17

since we’re all taking sides here… i’m going to have to support SpanishDude, because i think that he is actually one of the few “sane” people on this board… It has always appeared that he takes a more realistic stand on the issues discussed here simply because he is neither overly optimistic nor overly pessimistic abt HM development… and always offers an educated guess which i am sure many other members on this board appreciate… on the other hand, roger_that’s is overly pessimistic stance often appear more like a rant, rather than a rational, educated opinion. And quite frankly you’re starting to sound like roger_that’s newly created alternate user.


#18

thank you hairman2. well, I have to apologize because this time my guess was not educated at all, but I think my reaction was proportional to the nonsense of the post (and replies).

» since we’re all taking sides here… i’m going to have to support
» SpanishDude, because i think that he is actually one of the few “sane”
» people on this board… It has always appeared that he takes a more
» realistic stand on the issues discussed here simply because he is neither
» overly optimistic nor overly pessimistic abt HM development… and always
» offers an educated guess which i am sure many other members on this board
» appreciate… on the other hand, roger_that’s is overly pessimistic stance
» often appear more like a rant, rather than a rational, educated opinion.
» And quite frankly you’re starting to sound like roger_that’s newly created
» alternate user.