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I am not very sure if this notice has been posted before, but it seems that Mss. Christiano has something good.
Quoted:
“This suggested that if we cultured human papillae in such a way as to encourage them to aggregate the way rodent cells do spontaneously, it could create the conditions needed to induce hair growth in human skin,” said first author Claire A. Higgins, PhD, associate research scientist.
the same was reported in german mainstream media. They quoted Jahoda (they misspelled his name) as being one of the authors of the study. Apparently they Jahoda and Christiano took hair follicle cells from skin grafts and cultured certain cells in a 3d aggregate environment and injected them on human skin which was grafted to a mouse’s back. The skin then started to grow new hair.
They said that eventhough the researchers are optimistic about the results, they had to admit that the hairs that grew from this experiment were very sparse and most were so small that they did not even penetrate the epidermis and thuss were not visible from the skins surface.
Still this seems to be the first time that they have successfully cultured and grown hair follicles from scratch. I am quite certain we will hear more on this at the next conference. I think the timing of releasing this information is in deliberate correlation with the ISHRS conference.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by RiuraO[/postedby]
I am not very sure if this notice has been posted before, but it seems that Mss. Christiano has something good.
Quoted:
“This suggested that if we cultured human papillae in such a way as to encourage them to aggregate the way rodent cells do spontaneously, it could create the conditions needed to induce hair growth in human skin,” said first author Claire A. Higgins, PhD, associate research scientist.[/quote]
These articles are typically published months or even a year after the research is actually completed. That means this research is at least months, and perhaps years, old. So this is probably not the most up-to-date information Jahoda and Christiano have. Jahoda and Christiano likely have more recent info if Dr. Nigam can pry it from them.
Hairman you yourself have stated that these published studies are at least 6 months old because the studies are published at least 6 months, and perhaps even a year or more, after the completion of the study. This means that Chritiano and Jahoda could actually have advanced their growth research beyond the point in the published study. Do you think it’s possibile that they could actually be further along than this published study indicates?
Also, I do not really think it would be possible for Jahoda and Christiano to pinpoint within a matter of days of them speaking at the symposium the timing of when their study would be published or even if it would be published.
It says here…
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/10/16/1309970110
…that it was “received for review May 28, 2013” and “approved September 5, 2013”.
It would take at least a month to get the study prepped for mailout (to publications) and mailed out so since the publication received it in May that means the study was likely completed in April which means the scientific information is at least 6 months old. Do Jahoda and Christiano likely have newer more up-to-date information?
“There would be a risk of infection and the cells could become abnormal, or even cancerous, while being grown.”
I just wanted to point that out to you jarjar since you have an inherent repulsion against the idea that cell based treatments have the potential of becoming cancerous and therefor will be subject to rather rigorous FDA investigation. This is a problem for all of those who are hoping for a fast solution. Clearance will certainly be quite a time consuming issue.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
It would take at least a month to get the study prepped for mailout (to publications) and mailed out so since the publication received it in May that means the study was likely completed in April which means the scientific information is at least 6 months old. Do Jahoda and Christiano likely have newer more up-to-date information?[/quote]
agreed, it seems rather unlikely that they could have timed this so accurately.
I actually thought this news was based on a press release rather than an actual publication. I only just saw News’ link to the publication.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Hairman you yourself have stated that these published studies are at least 6 months old because the studies are published at least 6 months, and perhaps even a year or more, after the completion of the study. This means that Chritiano and Jahoda could actually have advanced their growth research beyond the point in the published study. Do you think it’s possibile that they could actually be further along than this published study indicates?
Also, I do not really think it would be possible for Jahoda and Christiano to pinpoint within a matter of days of them speaking at the symposium the timing of when their study would be published or even if it would be published.[/quote]
Do you really think that’s a realistic threat or do you think that they’re just saying that because they think they have to say that since they’re multiplying cells?
For example, multiplying/culturing different kinds of cells for other ailments is pretty common today and I bet that there is always this type of warning whenever one is involved in the mulitplying/cultivation of cells with re-injection even though everyone knows it’s really not likely that this is a real threat. Am I right? Is this a common boilerplate warning given out whenever multiplication/culture and re-injection of almost any type of cells is involved?
[quote]“There would be a risk of infection and the cells could become abnormal, or even cancerous, while being grown.”
I just wanted to point that out to you jarjar since you have an inherent repulsion against the idea that cell based treatments have the potential of becoming cancerous and therefor will be subject to rather rigorous FDA investigation. This is a problem for all of those who are hoping for a fast solution. Clearance will certainly be quite a time consuming issue.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
It would take at least a month to get the study prepped for mailout (to publications) and mailed out so since the publication received it in May that means the study was likely completed in April which means the scientific information is at least 6 months old. Do Jahoda and Christiano likely have newer more up-to-date information?
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]
Aderans just ran a lot of clinical trials involving the cultivation and re-injection of cells. How many of their patients got cancer? Answer: ZERO.
I think re-injection of cultured cells is becoming very routine in medicine. Are there published reports of people acquiring cancer in this manner?
And Hairman, I’m not trying to be sarcastic, rather I’m just trying to be realistic here. Do we really need to worry about this or are Christiano and Jahoda just giving this warning because it’s something they should do rather than because they really believe it?
What are the realistic possibilities here? There are many many people getting cultured cells put into their bodies and I’m not aware of any of them getting cancer. Governor Rick Perry of Texas had it done and so did Peyton Manning. They both swear that it’s helpful and neither of them are talking about cancer. And these were actual stem cells. Rick Perry’s an idiot but Manning is pretty smart.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
It would take at least a month to get the study prepped for mailout (to publications) and mailed out so since the publication received it in May that means the study was likely completed in April which means the scientific information is at least 6 months old. Do Jahoda and Christiano likely have newer more up-to-date information?[/quote]
Jahoda talked about these results on that conference in Europe (wasn’t it ireland ?) beginning this year, I think it was february. Dr Nigams, who attended there, posted information on this more than half a year ago on these boards. Not a lot of people seemed to mind back then.
Back then the greatest issue was greating that correct enviroment, maybe they’ve made progress there, we’ll now about that in 4 days.
It was WCHR 2013 Edinburgh, 5 months ago (I thought it was a bit longer ago). Dr Nigams posted:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/poster/Large/1.JPG
http://www.drnigams.net/images/poster/Large/2.JPG
Together with this:
CA Higgins, CA Jahods2 and AM christiano 1.3 Department of Dermatology, Columbia University, new York, USA , 2 Biological and Biomedical sciences, Durham University, Durham UK and 3 Genetics and Development, Columbia University, New York,USA
Hair Follicle (HF) neogensis refers to the generation of an entirely new HF in recipient skin using HF dermal papilla (DP) cells. This has been extensively demonstrated in rodent skin , either using intact DP or using intact Dp or using caltured DP cells. In contrast , HF neogensis in human skin has not previously been achieved using human cells. We performed global transcriptional profiling of both intact and cultured Dp cells using Affymetrix U133 Plus 2.0 array , which revealed several pathways expressed in intact5 DP , which are capable of neogenesis , but absent in caltured cells, that lack the micro environmental and anatomical context of intact DP is to grow the cells in hanging drops, which results in the formation of DP spheroids. We then profiled DP spheroids for changes in gene expression and determined that the average correlation coefficient between the transcriptomes of intact DP and the cultured cells is 0.42 , whereas that between the intact DP 3D culture. To evaluate whether recapitulation of the DP signature equated to a restored inductive potential, we established a contextual human – to – human HF neogenesis assay that could be used to assess the inductive capacity of human DP cells in human skin. When we micro implanted DP spheroids into recombined foreskins placed onto the back of SCID mice, we observed marked HF neogensis by 6 weeks, showing for the first time that intact human DP can induce de novo human HFs. We conclude that the partial restoration of the transcriptional profile in human Dp cells, achieved simply by growing the cells in a 3d spherical microenvironment, is sufficient in some instances to restore the inductive capacity of Dp cell cultures and elicit human HF neogenesis.P220
I think that this recent study gets them very VERY close to the cure but not 100% there yet. These results that just came to press are at least 6 months old so they have perhaps had time to further advance/improve the results and they may have done so. I think that they may have more up-to-date results that they have not published yet because the results that just came to press are at least 6 months old so we need to find out if there is any further news that perhaps is not ready for publishing yet but some new techniques that are showing great early stage results in early stage of experimentation. These results are at least 6 months old and I can’t imagine that they have not been trying to improve the results these past 6 months or longer since they did the last study that they just published about. I think they have more up-to-date info and I hope they will share it with Dr. Nigam.
It looks like they are very VERY close with this latest study so if they are any further along with even newer ideas that they haven’t published yet then we might be close enough to make a satisfactory improvement in our appearance and our lives. I for one don’t need it all back to get my life back. If I got back 70% of the hair I’ve lost (in the right places) I would be in great shape and I could make that work for me, especially with today’s volumizing shampoos which create the illusion of more hair than you actually have.
And now that you know that it’s a study instead of an up-to-the-minute press release do you agree that they might actually have some even better information regarding some ongoing study they are in the middle of right now but since the study isn’t completed yet they can’t get that info published yet?
And if you do agree that this is possible might it also be possible for Dr. Nigam to get that up-to-the-latest-minute info from Dr. Jahoda and Dr. Christiano and apply that info to treatments right now?
And if they have up-to-the-minute info that is an improvement over the info they just got published wouldn’t the up-to-the-minute info almost certainly be a major breakthrough since the information they just released is already a minor breakthrough?
I understand that I’m speculating and wishful-thinking but doesn’t it seem like Dr. Nigam could possibly get some up-to-the-minute mid-study info (from Dr. Jahoda) that is not ready for scientific publishing yet but might make a big improvement in Dr. Nigam’s treatments?
[quote]agreed, it seems rather unlikely that they could have timed this so accurately.
I actually thought this news was based on a press release rather than an actual publication. I only just saw News’ link to the publication.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Hairman you yourself have stated that these published studies are at least 6 months old because the studies are published at least 6 months, and perhaps even a year or more, after the completion of the study. This means that Chritiano and Jahoda could actually have advanced their growth research beyond the point in the published study. Do you think it’s possibile that they could actually be further along than this published study indicates?
Also, I do not really think it would be possible for Jahoda and Christiano to pinpoint within a matter of days of them speaking at the symposium the timing of when their study would be published or even if it would be published.
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby][/quote]
Honestly, it only takes a couple of months for a publication to pass peer-reviewal at the most. In fact it usually goes faster if you have experience in writing papers which I am sure Jahoda and his team have.
In the scale of things, I think that that is NOT a lot of time at all. Particularly when you consider how slowly hair grows and that the cell cultures themselves already take several months before they can even be injected.
The hair they have grown is so miniscule that it does not even pass the epidermis and is not even visible. Do you really think that they have turned invisible hair growth into something cosmetically viable in a matter of weeks?In my opinion that is even way beyond wishful thinking. In fact I think it is quite doubtful that Jahoda will be able to transform these preliminary results into any kind of viable treatment any time soon. I give it 2 years before they can even begin with clinical trials on humans.
[quote]And now that you know that it’s a study instead of an up-to-the-minute press release do you agree that they might actually have some even better information regarding some ongoing study they are in the middle of right now but since the study isn’t completed yet they can’t get that info published yet?
And if you do agree that this is possible might it also be possible for Dr. Nigam to get that up-to-the-latest-minute info from Dr. Jahoda and Dr. Christiano and apply that info to treatments right now?
And if they have up-to-the-minute info that is an improvement over the info they just got published wouldn’t the up-to-the-minute info almost certainly be a major breakthrough since the information they just released is already a minor breakthrough?
I understand that I’m speculating and wishful-thinking but doesn’t it seem like Dr. Nigam could possibly get some up-to-the-minute info (from Dr. Jahoda) that is not ready for scientific publishing yet but could make a big difference to people like you and I right now in terms of improving Dr. Nigam’s treatments substantially?
agreed, it seems rather unlikely that they could have timed this so accurately.
I actually thought this news was based on a press release rather than an actual publication. I only just saw News’ link to the publication.
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Hairman you yourself have stated that these published studies are at least 6 months old because the studies are published at least 6 months, and perhaps even a year or more, after the completion of the study. This means that Chritiano and Jahoda could actually have advanced their growth research beyond the point in the published study. Do you think it’s possibile that they could actually be further along than this published study indicates?
Also, I do not really think it would be possible for Jahoda and Christiano to pinpoint within a matter of days of them speaking at the symposium the timing of when their study would be published or even if it would be published.
[postedby]Originally Posted by hairman2[/postedby]
[postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby][/quote]
It says in the German article that the hair they created was so small that it did not even get through the skin.
It also says that IF this treatment is ever going to be available it will be a long time from now.
My understanding is that this would need to go through all three FDA trial phases (and they haven’t started yet). That usually takes about 10 years, so I don’t see how this is going to be on the market any time soon. (And remember what happened to Aderans: There is no guarantee that this is going to be successful.)
jarjar what you fail to understand is that it doesn’t matter how unlikely you or I believe this to be cancerous. The fact of the matter is cell cultures could potentially become cancerous, which is why the FDA will almost certainly demand rigorous saftey trials.
I know the chances are very small but since there is even the tiniest remote risk, it will have to be investigated. Please do not tell me that you believe there is no risk because the scientists clearly stated that there is a potential risk.
The FDA will always be overly cautious no matter how needless you may think it is.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
Aderans just ran a lot of clinical trials involving the cultivation and re-injection of cells. How many of their patients got cancer? Answer: ZERO.
I think re-injection of cultured cells is becoming very routine in medicine. Are there published reports of people acquiring cancer in this manner?
And Hairman, I’m not trying to be sarcastic, rather I’m just trying to be realistic here. Do we really need to worry about this or are Christiano and Jahoda just giving this warning because it’s something they should do rather than because they really believe it?
What are the realistic possibilities here? There are many many people getting cultured cells put into their bodies and I’m not aware of any of them getting cancer. Governor Rick Perry of Texas had it done and so did Peyton Manning. They both swear that it’s helpful and neither of them are talking about cancer. And these were actual stem cells. Rick Perry’s an idiot but Manning is pretty smart.[/quote]
jarjar, you always think we are very very close to a cure. In fact often enough you even think the cure is here.
The fact of the matter is that the articles state that it will take a long time. It is also fact that these grown hairs are not even remotely cosmetically viable because they are in fact invisible :D.
Then, even if they manage to grow proper hair, 3d cultures are still very tedious to perform. They need to figure out a way to mass produce such 3d environment cultured cells. There is no guarantee that will be an easy task. That in itself could take a couple of years to figure out.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by jarjarbinx[/postedby]
I think that this recent study gets them very VERY close to the cure but not 100% there yet. These results that just came to press are at least 6 months old so they have perhaps had time to further advance/improve the results and they may have done so. I think that they may have more up-to-date results that they have not published yet because the results that just came to press are at least 6 months old so we need to find out if there is any further news that perhaps is not ready for publishing yet but some new techniques that are showing great early stage results in early stage of experimentation. These results are at least 6 months old and I can’t imagine that they have not been trying to improve the results these past 6 months or longer since they did the last study that they just published about. I think they have more up-to-date info and I hope they will share it with Dr. Nigam.
It looks like they are very VERY close with this latest study so if they are any further along with even newer ideas that they haven’t published yet then we might be close enough to make a satisfactory improvement in our appearance and our lives. I for one don’t need it all back to get my life back. If I got back 70% of the hair I’ve lost (in the right places) I would be in great shape and I could make that work for me, especially with today’s volumizing shampoos which create the illusion of more hair than you actually have.[/quote]
Sure but the FDA applies to America. There are places where we would not have to wait. I would do it now but I would want better quality hair that is longer and thicker rather than hairs that do not get long enough to protrude from the skin. I already have peach fuzz that protrudes tiny out from the skin so maybe it would give more improvement to my hair than the results in the study. Maybe repeat treatments = better results.
[quote][postedby]Originally Posted by News[/postedby]
It says in the German article that the hair they created was so small that it did not even get through the skin.
It also says that IF this treatment is ever going to be available it will be a long time from now.
My understanding is that this would need to go through all three FDA trial phases (and they haven’t started yet). That usually takes about 10 years, so I don’t see how this is going to be on the market any time soon. (And remember what happened to Aderans: There is no guarantee that this is going to be successful.)[/quote]
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