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We have not used the neo graft machine.
We are used to our routines and tools which have given us great results. Our extraction are fully manual and usually are clocked at 500 to 600 grafts per hour. In terms of speed there seems to be no gain to use a mechanical device.
Maybe it is wise for use to “not change a winning team” meaning that we rather stick to what we know works best for us.
» You can’t mock a fact. Please understand that. Fact is a fact. You can use
» a fact, you can overlook a fact, but you can’t mock it. I understand the
» desire to be accepted socially by others. Many people like to be treated
» with deference and respect, to win the signs of public recognition. For
» example, many college students will go to great lengths to win membership
» in a fraternity, sorority, or an honor society. You strike me as someone
» who thinks that is very able and proud hair technician. Am I right to
» assume that you were among the top hair technician students in your
» medical school ?( or medical assistant school, or whatever medical school
» you attended, and is required to become hair transplant surgical
» technician.).
» You say HT technicians never get the recognition they deserve. I am sorry
» to read that. Do you think that is because most prospective patients assume
» (wrongly?) that the HT doctor, the surgeon, is one who will do most of the
» work on them? Thus bear the applause and recognition of a great HT, instead
» the hair technicians? I am sorry I am clueless.
» My clinic didn’t train very good their Hair transplant technicians, IMO.
» Seriously bro, I think they didn’t. I think that the only reason what
» happened to me , is because I was clueless. I thought that I was in hands
» of medical professionals. Seriously bro, look around and see if in any
» other medical field ,people without any medical official training and
» certification of any kind transplant human tissue on patient whilst the MD/
» DO guy is outside the surgery room. Bro, let me know what you see.
Wow John that took me back. I am sorry this happened to you. In my experience I know for a fact that a clinic that has a high turn over rate… a clinic that has had techs for a long period of time, a clinic that does not care, or just plain talented techs. really make or break a clinic. I am sorry that you happened to run into a poorly trained staff. 
» » You can’t mock a fact. Please understand that. Fact is a fact. You can
» use
» » a fact, you can overlook a fact, but you can’t mock it. I understand
» the
» » desire to be accepted socially by others. Many people like to be
» treated
» » with deference and respect, to win the signs of public recognition. For
» » example, many college students will go to great lengths to win
» membership
» » in a fraternity, sorority, or an honor society. You strike me as
» someone
» » who thinks that is very able and proud hair technician. Am I right to
» » assume that you were among the top hair technician students in your
» » medical school ?( or medical assistant school, or whatever medical
» school
» » you attended, and is required to become hair transplant surgical
» » technician.).
» » You say HT technicians never get the recognition they deserve. I am
» sorry
» » to read that. Do you think that is because most prospective patients
» assume
» » (wrongly?) that the HT doctor, the surgeon, is one who will do most of
» the
» » work on them? Thus bear the applause and recognition of a great HT,
» instead
» » the hair technicians? I am sorry I am clueless.
» » My clinic didn’t train very good their Hair transplant technicians,
» IMO.
» » Seriously bro, I think they didn’t. I think that the only reason what
» » happened to me , is because I was clueless. I thought that I was in
» hands
» » of medical professionals. Seriously bro, look around and see if in any
» » other medical field ,people without any medical official training and
» » certification of any kind transplant human tissue on patient whilst the
» MD/
» » DO guy is outside the surgery room. Bro, let me know what you see.
»
» Wow John that took me back. I am sorry this happened to you. In my
» experience I know for a fact that a clinic that has a high turn over
» rate… a clinic that has had techs for a long period of time, a clinic
» that does not care, or just plain talented techs. really make or break a
» clinic. I am sorry that you happened to run into a poorly trained staff. 
I know that there is more people who end up like I did after they had HT.And that is because there is no regulation,or responsibility among HT doctors for the patients rights.Do you think that those so called not reputable clinics have no patients?You are very wrong.They have 2/3 patients every day going through the mill.I am telling you butchers have no problem getting through the mill 2 or 3 patients a day.That is 2 or 3 more potential “repair” patients for the reputable,to save,and you here applaud.
Sure,it is the poor peoples fault.They did no research.They should have been here on hairsite or other forum prior to going to a doctor.How dare they didn’t.
My doctor,left me and was gone most of the time during the surgery…According to statement from his former employee,he went shopping,and in a coffee shop,during the HT surgery that I authorized him to perform on me.He left me with some people in white uniforms,called by the name surgical technicians. None of those people had any medical training.I have the 1 cm wide ear to ear scar.I have pitted and ridged recipient area which is still red ,2 years after the surgery.hairs point in all directions and the gaps in between them is hudge.It looks just hideous.I had infection in the recipient area.Total butchery, whilst I was drugged up and the surgeon gone on computer shopping…and drinking coffee
I couldn’t find any HT doctor,not even among this so called 'reputable" who would state that my surgeon breached his duty toward me.
I can’t tell you what I think of the reputable,or the club,in which you too,belong to.It is not allowed on the forum.
I don’t belong to a club. I have never worked for a doctor that left the clinic for personal reasons. That is against the law in most states… heck in most countries. And if this was I doctor I know or is sponsored here at hairsite then I can tell you with all honesty that this was a breach in all concepts of the structure of medicine… and you were wronged. Jeez before I worked here I worked on organ transplantation… and at no time was a doctor permitted to leave the premises during a procedure. Surgery is surgery… no matter the trust in the staff. Who was it?
» » You can’t mock a fact. Please understand that. Fact is a fact. You can
» use
» » a fact, you can overlook a fact, but you can’t mock it. I understand
» the
» » desire to be accepted socially by others. Many people like to be
» treated
» » with deference and respect, to win the signs of public recognition. For
» » example, many college students will go to great lengths to win
» membership
» » in a fraternity, sorority, or an honor society. You strike me as
» someone
» » who thinks that is very able and proud hair technician. Am I right to
» » assume that you were among the top hair technician students in your
» » medical school ?( or medical assistant school, or whatever medical
» school
» » you attended, and is required to become hair transplant surgical
» » technician.).
» » You say HT technicians never get the recognition they deserve. I am
» sorry
» » to read that. Do you think that is because most prospective patients
» assume
» » (wrongly?) that the HT doctor, the surgeon, is one who will do most of
» the
» » work on them? Thus bear the applause and recognition of a great HT,
» instead
» » the hair technicians? I am sorry I am clueless.
» » My clinic didn’t train very good their Hair transplant technicians,
» IMO.
» » Seriously bro, I think they didn’t. I think that the only reason what
» » happened to me , is because I was clueless. I thought that I was in
» hands
» » of medical professionals. Seriously bro, look around and see if in any
» » other medical field ,people without any medical official training and
» » certification of any kind transplant human tissue on patient whilst the
» MD/
» » DO guy is outside the surgery room. Bro, let me know what you see.
»
» Wow John that took me back. I am sorry this happened to you. In my
» experience I know for a fact that a clinic that has a high turn over
» rate… a clinic that has had techs for a long period of time, a clinic
» that does not care, or just plain talented techs. really make or break a
» clinic. I am sorry that you happened to run into a poorly trained staff.
Since this thread is about neo graft I will not reply to you here any longer
Regarding me.I wrote short post about the saving time that neo graft offers.T pointed whose time it saves. You say I mock.Ok.Open thread about that and we will talk there.
Regards,
John35
» This is a donor removal device, hair transplant artistic skill is usually
» in the form of placement of grafts in the recipient site, I have never
» heard anyone who said that his doctor has good artistic skills taking out
» the donor.
Artistic skills probably not that important for the donor extraction. However, the doctor must have certain finesse during the extraction process in order to avoid transection. It is a very delicate process. Each follicle is an organ by itself and must be handled with utmost care.
Well said hairsite.:yes:
» Well said hairsite.:yes:
Hello Hair Tech!! It is really good to find you in the forums still helping provide good info for the h/t community. I am very happy to see you have kept an open mind about the Neo-Graft system since our discussions in Montreal.
We have worked with the Neo-Graft system since Feb 2008. We were contracted by Neo-Graft to train their purchasing physicians in the use of Neo-Graft. We have trained 8 offices since Feb 8 the FUE procedure utilizing the Neo-Graft system and demonstrated the system for physicians multiple times. We have continued to staff separate offices since Feb 2008. We believe we have the most experience working with this system.
To be fair, the video that has been used in this thread is outdated. That video is from a technique outlined by the French manufacturers years ago. Since Feb 2008 we have taught the FUE techniques we developed in Jacksonville, Fl from 2004-2008. Our techniques were able to produce accurate harvest rates but only yielded 800-1000 grafts/day. The automated system, with with these same methods, allowed us to speed up the harvest process without sacrificing accuracy or growth.
The majority of the complaints we have all heard and read about are basically true. The automated rotation of the punch has the ability to cause injury to the graft when used improperly, as does any other tool in medicine. The continued rotation, as displayed in this video, with suction pulling the graft and depositing the harvested graft in a container has the propensity to cause the types of injuries we all suspect. This system is not being used with these protocols in the US by any of the offices we have trained in FUE harvest.
I cannot speak for all of the offices in the world utilizing this tool, but we can describe the FUE process with this system in the US offices. We teach 2 FUE techniques:
The rotation of this system is counter clock-wise. This tool does not oscillate. I believe Dr. Feller’s automated tool is the only one that oscillates.
The 2 and 3 step techniques we train are depth controlled and rotation controlled. The use of continued rotation is outdated. A graft is harvested with small pulsed rotations. The tool has a programmable RPM setting from 0-6000. The usual setting for most patients is between 300-400 rpm. Small pulsed rotations controls the friction injury that would be caused with continuous rotation.
Our depth control technique only dissects the tissue surrounding the graft. The measured depth from person to person varies but most fall somewhere between 2-4mm. Once the skin is scored the graft is removed with 2 forceps. When the depth is set properly there is minimal traction applied to the graft to remove the scored f/u. The forceps take away the need to suction the graft thru a tube into a container.
The artistic vs science posts were also interesting. If I may, I would like to weigh in. I believe the artistic side of h/t is present more in the recipient sites. I believe the harvesting process is more a technical procedure. The art is in the result from the procedure and the
technical skill is in a successful harvest.
We hope this has helped.
» » Well said hairsite.:yes:
»
» Hello Hair Tech!! It is really good to find you in the forums still
» helping provide good info for the h/t community. I am very happy to see
» you have kept an open mind about the Neo-Graft system since our discussions
» in Montreal.
»
» We have worked with the Neo-Graft system since Feb 2008. We were
» contracted by Neo-Graft to train their purchasing physicians in the use of
» Neo-Graft. We have trained 8 offices since Feb 8 the FUE procedure
» utilizing the Neo-Graft system and demonstrated the system for physicians
» multiple times. We have continued to staff separate offices since Feb
» 2008. We believe we have the most experience working with this system.
»
» To be fair, the video that has been used in this thread is outdated. That
» video is from a technique outlined by the French manufacturers years ago.
» Since Feb 2008 we have taught the FUE techniques we developed in
» Jacksonville, Fl from 2004-2008. Our techniques were able to produce
» accurate harvest rates but only yielded 800-1000 grafts/day. The automated
» system, with with these same methods, allowed us to speed up the harvest
» process without sacrificing accuracy or growth.
»
» The majority of the complaints we have all heard and read about are
» basically true. The automated rotation of the punch has the ability to
» cause injury to the graft when used improperly, as does any other tool in
» medicine. The continued rotation, as displayed in this video, with suction
» pulling the graft and depositing the harvested graft in a container has the
» propensity to cause the types of injuries we all suspect. This system
» is not being used with these protocols in the US by any of the offices we
» have trained in FUE harvest.
»
» I cannot speak for all of the offices in the world utilizing this tool,
» but we can describe the FUE process with this system in the US offices. We
» teach 2 FUE techniques:
» 1. Depth Controlled single punch
» 2. Depth Controlled double punch.
» Each of these techniques utilize the basic principals of the 2 and 3 step
» FUE techniques.
»
» The rotation of this system is counter clock-wise. This tool does not
» oscillate. I believe Dr. Feller’s automated tool is the only one that
» oscillates.
»
» The 2 and 3 step techniques we train are depth controlled and rotation
» controlled. The use of continued rotation is outdated. A graft is
» harvested with small pulsed rotations. The tool has a programmable RPM
» setting from 0-6000. The usual setting for most patients is between
» 300-400 rpm. Small pulsed rotations controls the friction injury that
» would be caused with continuous rotation.
»
» Our depth control technique only dissects the tissue surrounding the
» graft. The measured depth from person to person varies but most fall
» somewhere between 2-4mm. Once the skin is scored the graft is removed with
» 2 forceps. When the depth is set properly there is minimal traction
» applied to the graft to remove the scored f/u. The forceps take away the
» need to suction the graft thru a tube into a container.
»
» The artistic vs science posts were also interesting. If I may, I would
» like to weigh in. I believe the artistic side of h/t is present more in
» the recipient sites. I believe the harvesting process is more a technical
» procedure. The art is in the result from the procedure and the
» technical skill is in a successful harvest.
»
» We hope this has helped.
Good info, can you list the clinics you have trained in the US?
Dr. Hagstom Minneapolis
Dr. Bauman Boca Raton
Dr. Reed NYC
Dr. Rubio Redlands, Ca
Dr. Benson New Orleans
Dr. Michaelson Thousand Oaks, Ca
Dr. Williams Orange, Ca
I cannot remember the name of the 8th doctor in Batavia, NY.
» Dr. Hagstom Minneapolis
» Dr. Bauman Boca Raton
» Dr. Reed NYC
» Dr. Rubio Redlands, Ca
» Dr. Benson New Orleans
» Dr. Michaelson Thousand Oaks, Ca
» Dr. Williams Orange, Ca
»
» I cannot remember the name of the 8th doctor in Batavia, NY.
Hi
Is it possible to make the instrument/machine,able to “recognize” the bulb under the skin?For example,first ,mark/inject the bulb/follicle via external application,done through the hair shaft (with liquid,shampoo,or other method),using magnetic polarity,dye…etc.Second,such signal from the now marked bulb/follicle will signal the machine its exact location ,producing a color-coded image of the bulb on a computer screen…thus guide the man exactly to the target?
Ha,
what a harvest would that be?
Just a thought.
» The rotation of this system is counter clock-wise. This tool does not
» oscillate. I believe Dr. Feller’s automated tool is the only one that
» oscillates.
»
» The 2 and 3 step techniques we train are depth controlled and rotation
» controlled. The use of continued rotation is outdated. A graft is
» harvested with small pulsed rotations. The tool has a programmable RPM
» setting from 0-6000. The usual setting for most patients is between
» 300-400 rpm. Small pulsed rotations controls the friction injury that
» would be caused with continuous rotation.
So does it mean that a machine that oscillates is better because it causes less damage? I am actually more confused about how fue is done after reading your post.
Leo,
Dr. Feller, and a small group of other physicians I have discussed this topic, believes that oscillation decreases the risk of friction injury caused by continuous rotation of a punch around the graft during harvest. We believe with controlled rotation, small impulses that rotate 2-4 full rotations, also limits the risks of friction injury to the graft.
We have tried both rotations side by side on a patient during a demonstration case. We prefer the grafts harvested with our controlled counter-clockwise rotation. This probably has more to do with our experience level with the oscillating device. I am sure any tool takes more than a 20-50 grafts to become proficient in it’s use. We do not have sufficient experience with the oscillation to prove or disprove its abilities to harvest grafts. We do however feel the results we have seen with our controlled rotation works very well with respect to growth. In my experience, Dr. Feller has proven to be an honorable man who believes in his concepts due to extended studies from his tool. I am sure he is willing to discuss the benefits of his concepts with any who inquires.
Understand one tool may be thought to have better attributes than other tools, but the truth is the experience of the practitioner is what matters most. While searching for an office to help you via FUE you must first understand their level of experience. The ones who perform FUE on a regular basis have a belief in their harvesting system that should be easily conveyed during a simple phone conversation. Look for an office that is capable of answering all of your questions then make a decision as to which office/technique by what makes the most sense to you. You will see some offices have the ability to put your mind at ease and help you understand why they feel their technique/method would be best for you. Others tend to “stumble” through the more difficult questions like punch size. Do plenty of research and make a good informed decision. You will have to live with your choice for the rest of your life. Make sure you are comfortable with your decision before proceeding with at procedure. There is nothing worse than spending the year after your procedure second guessing your decision.
I hope this has helped.
Can I see some donor pics of your patients?
» Leo,
» Dr. Feller, and a small group of other physicians I have discussed this
» topic, believes that oscillation decreases the risk of friction injury
» caused by continuous rotation of a punch around the graft during harvest.
» We believe with controlled rotation, small impulses that rotate 2-4 full
» rotations, also limits the risks of friction injury to the graft.
»
» We have tried both rotations side by side on a patient during a
» demonstration case. We prefer the grafts harvested with our controlled
» counter-clockwise rotation. This probably has more to do with our
» experience level with the oscillating device. I am sure any tool takes
» more than a 20-50 grafts to become proficient in it’s use. We do not have
» sufficient experience with the oscillation to prove or disprove its
» abilities to harvest grafts. We do however feel the results we have seen
» with our controlled rotation works very well with respect to growth. In my
» experience, Dr. Feller has proven to be an honorable man who believes in
» his concepts due to extended studies from his tool. I am sure he is
» willing to discuss the benefits of his concepts with any who inquires.
»
» Understand one tool may be thought to have better attributes than other
» tools, but the truth is the experience of the practitioner is what matters
» most. While searching for an office to help you via FUE you must first
» understand their level of experience. The ones who perform FUE on a
» regular basis have a belief in their harvesting system that should be
» easily conveyed during a simple phone conversation. Look for an office
» that is capable of answering all of your questions then make a decision as
» to which office/technique by what makes the most sense to you. You will
» see some offices have the ability to put your mind at ease and help you
» understand why they feel their technique/method would be best for you.
» Others tend to “stumble” through the more difficult questions like punch
» size. Do plenty of research and make a good informed decision. You will
» have to live with your choice for the rest of your life. Make sure you are
» comfortable with your decision before proceeding with at procedure. There
» is nothing worse than spending the year after your procedure second
» guessing your decision.
»
»
» I hope this has helped.
» » This is a donor removal device, hair transplant artistic skill is
» usually
» » in the form of placement of grafts in the recipient site, I have never
» » heard anyone who said that his doctor has good artistic skills taking
» out
» » the donor.
»
» Artistic skills probably not that important for the donor extraction.
» However, the doctor must have certain finesse during the extraction
» process in order to avoid transection. It is a very delicate process. Each
» follicle is an organ by itself and must be handled with utmost care.
IMO, the “artistry” in FUE extraction comes in as to the extraction pattern in the donor area. The idea being to properly extract the grafts in a diffused pattern that will leave as little thinning in the donor area as possible while still leaving potential grafts for any future needs.
Yes, imo, there is an “art” to that.
When done correctly, the patient can cut his hair very short without any “patchy” areas and sleep well knowing that there is more donor to work with down the line. Extraction sites being properly spaced out and the donor area diffused properly has an “artistic” quality, imo.
But of course, the more obvious “art” is the hairline and placing the correct grafts in the right areas and at angles to mimic nature as closely as possible. Hopefully the doctor is dictating which grafts go where and at what angle if he/she is not placing the grafts him/herself.
Just my 2 cents.
And, I would NEVER pay for automated FUE extraction without seeing some grown out results documented on video, or better yet after meeting some patients in person.
And it sure as hell better be a whole lot cheaper!
I will ask the docs for some donor pics and post them next week when I get home.
So Far, good to see you are still in the forums.
» Dr. Hagstom Minneapolis
» Dr. Bauman Boca Raton
» Dr. Reed NYC
» Dr. Rubio Redlands, Ca
» Dr. Benson New Orleans
» Dr. Michaelson Thousand Oaks, Ca
» Dr. Williams Orange, Ca
»
» I cannot remember the name of the 8th doctor in Batavia, NY.
If these are the only places trained, how does a mill like Nuhart advertise neo-grafting? is this the same proceedure?
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