My Story - hair transplant journey

Hair Transplant
41

»
» I believe that 500 grafts ( approx 1000 hair) done correctly is far
» superior and gives greater results and coverage, and infinetly less damage
» than 2000 megasession follicles, where you see nothing, sign frightening
» disclaimers and are sucked in by slick advertising
»
» There is a huge untold story here, but there is too much money at stake
»
» Luckily, many of my clients are business men, who know BS when they see
» it.

Well said Dr. Woods.

42

» In 2 days, under 12 power magnification, I found it difficult to place 750
» follicular units without causing permanent scalp shock and destruction .
»

Hi dr.Woods can i ask what do you mean by that?You are talking about the specific case?The area that needed transplantation was too small?Also the Scalp shock and destruction what does it mean? can it go that goes further than the area where the grafts are being place?

43

» » In 2 days, under 12 power magnification, I found it difficult to place
» 750
» » follicular units without causing permanent scalp shock and destruction
» .
» »
»
»
» Hi dr.Woods can i ask what do you mean by that?You are talking about the
» specific case?The area that needed transplantation was too small?Also the
» Scalp shock and destruction what does it mean? can it go that goes further
» than the area where the grafts are being place?

I second that, what does that really mean? the 12 power magnification, I assume you are talking about the microscope you use to place the grafts, shouldn’t this be a good thing?

44

I think there is more debate going on here than really needs to be.

– 500 grafts is too small to be cosmetically significant. I’m not declaring that there’s never any reason to do a FUE session that small. Minor changes and touch-up work have their place.

But if somebody asked about a strip session that was twice that much, we would be saying they’re not gonna see a significant enough visible improvement to even be worth the strip cut.

500 FUE isn’t gonna change anyone’s drivers license picture.

– A 2000 or 2500-graft minimum for FUE sessions has more to do with financial incentive for a doctor than it does for patients best interests. You guys can argue with me about this for the rest of the week, but it’s blatant common sense and we all know it.

I don’t buy the scheduling excuse either. It’s not like doing 1000 FUE grafts isn’t worth coming into the office over. That’s maybe $6000-10,000 US dollars we’re talking about for most clinics, and more than one reputable FUE clinic won’t even attempt to do 2000 in less than two whole days.

45

If I had the power…

On Cal’s last post I would close this to further debate…

Well said

Cheers

MoM

46

» If I had the power…
»
» On Cal’s last post I would close this to further debate…
»
» Well said
»
» Cheers
»
» MoM

Sorry, but we have only just begun

Let us put this under the microscope.

What you will see will send shills into damage control marketing overdrive

But thats what they do everyday

Dr Ray WoodS

47

» » If I had the power…
» »
» » On Cal’s last post I would close this to further debate…
» »
» » Well said
» »
» » Cheers
» »
» » MoM
»
» Sorry, but we have only just begun
»
» Let us put this under the microscope.
»
» What you will see will send shills into damage control marketing
» overdrive
»
» But thats what they do everyday
»
» Dr Ray WoodS

Translating your comments into English, i think you are saying that 500 FU can make a difference and that the reason is that many other surgeons, in fact, do not get the graft survival rate that you do or at least that is possible. I believe this is true.

48

I didn’t say 500 grafts couldn’t make a difference.

I am trying to say that 500 grafts generally isn’t gonna make a difference that is significant enough to offer real-world cosmetic improvements that would be clearly visible to another person.

If someone posts up asking about the prospect of having 1500 strip grafts done, then the general consensus would usually be that 1500 is not worth a strip-cut over and probably not enough to satisfy someone wanting a visible improvement. (No, I didn’t say it was WORTHLESS, I said it was NOT ENOUGH.)

This hypothetical strip session I’m comparing here is THREE TIMES the number of FUE grafts that we are discussing here, and with strip-HT survival rates.

49

» In 2 days, under 12 power magnification, I found it difficult to place 750
» follicular units without causing permanent scalp shock and destruction .
»
» Newstart allowed me to film, and he watched almost every single graft
» inserted
»
» He soon was aware of what constitutes a follicle, how it should be placed
» , and just how intricate the procedure is.
»
» The video will be up soon
»
» I believe that 500 grafts ( approx 1000 hair) done correctly is far
» superior and gives greater results and coverage, and infinetly less damage
» than 2000 megasession follicles, where you see nothing, sign frightening
» disclaimers and are sucked in by slick advertising
»
» There is a huge untold story here, but there is too much money at stake
»
» Luckily, many of my clients are business men, who know BS when they see
» it.
»
» Others are repair patients. And some just are smart enough to work it out
»
»
» Dr Ray Woods

Less damage???

Shock loss on an HT will occur to non transplanted (original follicles) to follicles that are already very weak. And as a result they are too weak to withstand the HT and are lost for good.

But that still does not mean that 500 would be a better number. Frankly not a well stiched answer.

You see if he has less shock loss as a result of 500 grafts (according to you which still doesnt make sense, just because there are less units doesnt definetly guarantee that a client wont have a lessor amount of shock loss, not everyone is the same and it cant be predicted), then once again its a delay to the inevitable and an INCONVENIENCE TO THE CLIENT!!!

The units lets say will fall out with shock loss accoring to you with a megasession. But the bottom line is that there are more units in place and i bet that the number of units per cm are going to be more than 500 units with less shock loss.

In order for your claim to be true, in a 500 unit transplant (assuming 500 units successfully bond), and you get ZERO SHOCK LOSS, in order for it to be more beneficial… in a 2000 unit HT (assuming 2000 units successfully bond), you would have to have a shock loss of 75% of your hair in that area in order to not make the larger amount of grafts less advantageous.

In addition to of course making a patient loose his valuable work time, stress time, pain time, recovery time… THE HUMAIN SIDE… THE SIDE DR.S SHOULD BE CONSIDERING FIRST!!!

This is really pissing the heck out of me. Thats the first thing that Dr. Armani’s consultants (CHAD), asked me??? what is the importance to me??? Their NUMBER ONE CONCERN WAS MY OVERALL RECOVERY and be done with it, see u in a few years!!! and im sure some other Dr.s operate the same way…

But I still have yet to see anyone speak of the humain aspect, the recovery. Im sorry but my stress, my time and my recovery has greater value to me, let along coming back 3 separate times, 3 separete stresses, 3 separate pains, 3 separate recovery times…

Ludacris… absolutely ludacris.

Oh and Dr Woods… Dont come on here acting all holy’er than thou, you accusing the Armani clinic and probably others accusing other and teh whole circle of accusations of shills, what about you???

Mayeb their is a vast army of supporters as a result of being treated with respect, their results changing their lives and it seems it far less time with far less stress.

Stop this pointing fingers. Speak FACTS. And for a Dr. to not do so, and rely on assumptions, and be quite EMO in your responses i must say, isnt in my books a show of strength nor professionalism.

STICK TO FACTS…and the childish name calling and usage of shills without factual validation means that as a professional, your judgement is clouded by emotional anger/frustration.

Learn from Pats… i have looked on his past posts and yet he nor his clinic and some others as well have not used the terms shills, and gotten invoved in a bitter chilidhs back and forth amongst the peasants so to speak.

You are a professional, a man of healing, of change, not the lead singer in a emo band.

You are right. I am a business man. And i can see through BS, but it seems that you and your clinic in this thread (maybe not overall) are quite on the defensive and resort to non factual comments and little zingers without merrit or proof.

Stick to the facts, that is unless you can factually prove what you claim about a Dr. stating BS, or someone being a shill. Until you can /are willing to do so, keep those comments off your posts. You should be above that

MoM

Cheers

50

Here you go MoM. http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-57577-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer.html

51

Thanks for sharing!!!..

First off, im not sure what your goal was to post a bunch of links of r your results with no words, or indication as to what you want in return for posting these links? to try to prove a point in your opinion? share your results? look for help?

Ill assume a positive answer and its an opinion and help and i also assume people are good FIRST.

Shock loss defintely exists, its not imaginative (my point was to challenge the claim made that less shock loss occurs with 500 as opposed to a larger number, and even if it did, a significant 75% which is an abnormal number would have to occur to make what the doctor said correct (IMO))

In your case, you unfortunately might be a very rare case where multiple things happened.

As wioth any surgury or procedure not everyones body takes to something as well as another one might. It cant be predicted and it is a risk we take. The Dr. should not be expected to refund something if nature idnt allow it in your case. He still did work and should be compensated.

Thats kind of like a singer who just couldnt perform that day wants a free day in studio because the results at the end of mastering and mixing were less than favorable and we couldnt polish a turd (so to speak).

There is also the case that in your case, paired with some shock loss, your hair loss cycle was in a very violent time and while you were regrowing you lost more hair due to the the cycle of your MPB… it might also be possible that your remaining hairs were weak and frail and when the procedure happened they just couldnt survive.

There are quite a number of factors here that im assuming are impossible to figure out after the fact and even more so more difficult BEFORE the fact.

My only thouight to figure out a probelem is by process of elimination.

Lets say for example you get another session after SUFFICIENT time to see the full results (or lack there of) from this procedure, you go for another (for example) and you see the differnece. If there is a significant increase that means that the chances that the first procedure wasnt done right is much smaller as the second one did take. Now the chances that shock loss and natural loss based on the phase of the strength of your hair are much higher.

Thats just my opinion, but just to make another point, just like certain claims CANT BE PROVEN as two cases are NEVER and CANT BE ALIKE. There is NO WAY to know whether 500 units would of caused less shock loss, natural loss or even more of a result.

My advice…

Dont give up, keep up a positive attitude, stick to a regime, if you can go for another procedure and then begin the [process of elimination and then form a long term plan of attack against nature.

Cheers my friend.

Head up

MoM

52

» Thanks for sharing!!!..
»
» First off, im not sure what your goal was to post a bunch of links of r
» your results with no words, or indication as to what you want in return for
» posting these links? to try to prove a point in your opinion? share your
» results? look for help?
»
» Ill assume a positive answer and its an opinion and help and i also assume
» people are good FIRST.
»
» Shock loss defintely exists, its not imaginative (my point was to
» challenge the claim made that less shock loss occurs with 500 as opposed to
» a larger number, and even if it did, a significant 75% which is an abnormal
» number would have to occur to make what the doctor said correct (IMO))
»
» In your case, you unfortunately might be a very rare case where multiple
» things happened.
»
» As wioth any surgury or procedure not everyones body takes to something as
» well as another one might. It cant be predicted and it is a risk we take.
» The Dr. should not be expected to refund something if nature idnt allow it
» in your case. He still did work and should be compensated.
»
» Thats kind of like a singer who just couldnt perform that day wants a free
» day in studio because the results at the end of mastering and mixing were
» less than favorable and we couldnt polish a turd (so to speak).
»
» There is also the case that in your case, paired with some shock loss,
» your hair loss cycle was in a very violent time and while you were
» regrowing you lost more hair due to the the cycle of your MPB… it might
» also be possible that your remaining hairs were weak and frail and when the
» procedure happened they just couldnt survive.
»
» There are quite a number of factors here that im assuming are impossible
» to figure out after the fact and even more so more difficult BEFORE the
» fact.
»
» My only thouight to figure out a probelem is by process of elimination.
»
» Lets say for example you get another session after SUFFICIENT time to see
» the full results (or lack there of) from this procedure, you go for another
» (for example) and you see the differnece. If there is a significant
» increase that means that the chances that the first procedure wasnt done
» right is much smaller as the second one did take. Now the chances that
» shock loss and natural loss based on the phase of the strength of your hair
» are much higher.
»
» Thats just my opinion, but just to make another point, just like certain
» claims CANT BE PROVEN as two cases are NEVER and CANT BE ALIKE. There is NO
» WAY to know whether 500 units would of caused less shock loss, natural loss
» or even more of a result.
»
» My advice…
»
» Dont give up, keep up a positive attitude, stick to a regime, if you can
» go for another procedure and then begin the [process of elimination and
» then form a long term plan of attack against nature.
»
» Cheers my friend.
»
» Head up
»
» MoM

I am sorry but for me you are clueless.Most of us are to a degree, but at least we dont write 10 paragraphs, as if we are the HT encyclopedia, every time we post and therefore we dont bust each others b*alls that much :).

And also dont say that a thread should be locked is insulting, since some of us asked questions

53

As wioth any surgury or procedure not everyones body takes to something as well as another one might. It cant be predicted and it is a risk we take. The Dr. should not be expected to refund something if nature idnt allow it in your case. He still did work and should be compensated

The main page on hairsite states the following:
“Dr. Armani - US/Can/Dubai
Every patient is like a page out of GQ magazine”

That is all.

54

I am a former Armani patient and can personally vouch for the type of work he does. Now while i dont know him personally I can only imagine that the main reason for him denying your small procedure was for your own good, although you might not believe it. first of all why would you want to subject your self to three procedures when it can be accomplished in one. Your donor hair goes through less shock which means if in the future you do need a second “touch up” procedure, your donor area has taken less of a beating. Second of all Dr. Armani knows what hes doing. Hes been doing this a long time, so he knows how many grafts will give you the density your looking for according to your personal hair type and quality. He has a reputation to uphold as well. You are in a sense a walking business card for his practice and he wants you to be able to represent him in the best light possible.

Try to take a step back and look at the situation rationally. 3 small procedures has not given you the results your looking for. I had one medium sized procedure, for lack of a better term, and i am still ecstatic about my hair 4 years out!.. Think about it…Good luck in the future…

» That was a good story, albeit a long one. I sincerely hope you can repair
» your hair and your life along with it. If there’s an underlining theme I
» noticed on these forums is that hair transplants rarely solve anything.
»
» I would like to add that the quote below concerns me the most; you’re not
» the first person to say something similar.
»
»
» I went to see Dr Armani recently and he told me that he only
» works with a minimum of 2500 – 3000 grafts and that I don’t have to
» worry about my donor area because realistically there will soon be
» something else like stem cell research success which will find a new way of
» dealing with hair loss. I am no scientist but does anyone know for sure
» that the next big thing is only a few years away? Is ‘its only a matter of
» time’ enough of a reason to ensure you look above average for now? I want
» to know that my doctor is willing to stop at 500 grafts for my own good
» even if it means less money for him.

55

» I went to see Dr Armani recently and he told me that he
» only
» » works with a minimum of 2500 – 3000 grafts and that I don’t have to
» » worry about my donor area because realistically there will soon be
» » something else like stem cell research success which will find a new way
» of
» » dealing with hair loss. I am no scientist but does anyone know for
» sure
» » that the next big thing is only a few years away? Is ‘its only a matter
» of
» » time’ enough of a reason to ensure you look above average for now? I
» want
» » to know that my doctor is willing to stop at 500 grafts for my own good
» » even if it means less money for him.

The video is on my website.

I asked hairsite to transfer it here.

People , make up your own minds

Dr Ray Woods

56

With all due respect, I dont think 500 grafts will make much difference to your hair.
I had a 500 grafts procedure in the UK prior to going with Dr Armani & I can tell you it was a complete waste of time…
It was probably a combination of poor work & the fact that I was lied to about how good 500 grafts would look afterwards but in my opinoin, based on your photo’s, I would be looking at having more grafts to fill the thin areas.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Dan

57

You shouldn’t feel too sad, the important thing is that you still look natural, it’s not like you have scars all over your scalp. Have you tried Toppik? I think toppik will work very well for you

58

Here’s the video, click the PLAY button to watch in this post:
1_file46.flv

You can also watch the video here
http://www.woodstechnique.com.au/videogallery/gallery.php?page=5

As is obvious , he had pre existing and transplanted hair

Working in the gaps was difficult

People tend to forget what permanent scalp shock is

I could not find further safe gaps after 750.

To continue would have definitely caused permanent loss of pre existing hair

What is the point of taking one step forward and two steps back

The video only shows a sample of what was going on. Not all 750

But our first responsibility is to “do no harm”

And sometimes that means saying no to a patient, and put his money back in his pocket.

Dr Ray Woods

59

»
» People tend to forget what permanent scalp shock is

What is permanent scalp shock.Is like shock loss?can it affect areas that were not transplanted as well…you mean it can affect the whole scalp?Why u say is permanent?Only the miniaturized hairs can be affected that were going to be lost anyway or other hair can be affected and even grafts?

60

So confusing, when was this video taken? I thought Newstart just went to your clinic now.