Mikewalters/baccy/benji......something news with the follica techniques?

If you want to increase b-catenin and wnt only used licl and not litium oronate.

PROCEDURE FOR CREATE NEW HAIR FOLLICLES IS:

1- DERMOABRASION.

2- TOPICAL FORMULA APLY FOR 14 DAYS
TOPICAL EGFR 1% (GEFITINIB ETC) + TOPICAL TACROLIMUS (0.1 %) + 5% LICL (INCREASE WNT ) + 5% TOPICAL ROXITRHOMYCIN ( ANTIBIOTIC AND INMUNOSUPRESSANT)+ 0.1 AZELASTINE (ANTIHISTAMINE) + 0.25 RETINOIC ACID + 0.5% AVODART ANTIANDROGEN) + 0.1 HIDROXICORTISONE (ANTIINFLAMATORY) + 5% MINOXIDIL ( CHANEL OPENER) + DILUENTS ( DMI 10% + DMSO 10%)

There is no way to draw a conclusion about EDIHN from someone that is using the big 3. They dont call them the big 3 for fun and there are great responders out there, i was one of them. Have you seen the propecia twins?When the combination includes minox and niz then things get even better.

I know it first hand when i was on prop and minox my hairloss reversed completely and only my temples and hairline resisted, had some regrowth there but not enough to make a cosmetic difference.The crown and midscalp was a phenomenal change and people were asking me all the time if i had a transplant or something.

Of course coffee is not our labrat and the guy did what he had to do to change his hair situation and i have to say congrats on the transformation!!!

But i bet you right now anything that you want that if he stops fin AND nizoral and the DHT returns to its natural levels,minox wont be able to perform its growth properties and he will be bald like before in less than 6 months.

» If you want to increase b-catenin and wnt only used licl and
» not litium oronate.
»
» PROCEDURE FOR CREATE NEW HAIR FOLLICLES IS:
»
» 1- DERMOABRASION.
»
» 2- TOPICAL FORMULA APLY FOR 14 DAYS
» TOPICAL EGFR 1% (GEFITINIB ETC) + TOPICAL TACROLIMUS (0.1 %) + 5%
» LICL (INCREASE WNT ) + 5% TOPICAL ROXITRHOMYCIN ( ANTIBIOTIC AND
» INMUNOSUPRESSANT)+ 0.1 AZELASTINE (ANTIHISTAMINE) + 0.25 RETINOIC ACID
» + 0.5% AVODART ANTIANDROGEN) + 0.1 HIDROXICORTISONE (ANTIINFLAMATORY) + 5%
» MINOXIDIL ( CHANEL OPENER) + DILUENTS ( DMI 10% + DMSO 10%)

We have reasoned that a egf antagonist plus immunosuppression would probably be enough, and the “extras” will simply help the follicles to be larger and perhaps more numerous. Your formula you have described here is probably a very good approximation of what Follica will end up going with. Im very optimistic about this research and think at the least much more donor area hair will be able to be “made” for transplantation purposes, and perhaps the hair created in the MPB area might be androgen resistant if we are lucky. Either way, I figure its a winner for all of us.

» If you want to increase b-catenin and wnt only used licl and
» not litium oronate.
»
» PROCEDURE FOR CREATE NEW HAIR FOLLICLES IS:
»
» 1- DERMOABRASION.
»
» 2- TOPICAL FORMULA APLY FOR 14 DAYS
» TOPICAL EGFR 1% (GEFITINIB ETC) + TOPICAL TACROLIMUS (0.1 %) + 5%
» LICL (INCREASE WNT ) + 5% TOPICAL ROXITRHOMYCIN ( ANTIBIOTIC AND
» INMUNOSUPRESSANT)+ 0.1 AZELASTINE (ANTIHISTAMINE) + 0.25 RETINOIC ACID
» + 0.5% AVODART ANTIANDROGEN) + 0.1 HIDROXICORTISONE (ANTIINFLAMATORY) + 5%
» MINOXIDIL ( CHANEL OPENER) + DILUENTS ( DMI 10% + DMSO 10%)

Leflunomide is pratically the only egfr-inhibitor soluble in alcol.

This avoid the necessity of dmso (which could bring in circle the drugs).
Is also cheaper.

But we don’t know that Leflu will actually get metabolized into its active form if it goes in through the skin. That’s only known for sure with oral ingestion.

» But we don’t know that Leflu will actually get metabolized into its active
» form if it goes in through the skin. That’s only known for sure with oral
» ingestion.

sorry i haven’t thought about this issue during the reply.
…sure is metabolized by liver so the alternatives are switch to other or
use the active form directly.

» » But we don’t know that Leflu will actually get metabolized into its
» active
» » form if it goes in through the skin. That’s only known for sure with
» oral
» » ingestion.
»
»
» sorry i haven’t thought about this issue during the reply.
» …sure is metabolized by liver so the alternatives are switch to other
» or
» use the active form directly.

and what would be the best for immunosupression? (as TACROLIMUS was reported to cause cancer)

» » » But we don’t know that Leflu will actually get metabolized into its
» » active
» » » form if it goes in through the skin. That’s only known for sure with
» » oral
» » » ingestion.
» »
» »
» » sorry i haven’t thought about this issue during the reply.
» » …sure is metabolized by liver so the alternatives are switch to other
» » or
» » use the active form directly.
»
» and what would be the best for immunosupression? (as TACROLIMUS was
» reported to cause cancer)

that trouble about tacrolimus is not a major concern.

In uk dermatologist tacro is quite diffuse;

but for sure is not intended to be used in an extended area.

With google you can read about it’s (relative) safety .

» Here are some images from September and October of last
» year.

Coffee!

do you have any news?

growing new hair?

» We have reasoned that a egf antagonist plus immunosuppression would
» probably be enough, and the “extras” will simply help the follicles to be
» larger and perhaps more numerous. Your formula you have described here is
» probably a very good approximation of what Follica will end up going with.
» Im very optimistic about this research and think at the least much more
» donor area hair will be able to be “made” for transplantation purposes, and
» perhaps the hair created in the MPB area might be androgen resistant if we
» are lucky. Either way, I figure its a winner for all of us.

–Benji—

Wich kind of result have you gotten?

In Italy we are very curious to know him/it because we would want to try

» There is no way to draw a conclusion about EDIHN from someone that is using
» the big 3. They dont call them the big 3 for fun and there are great
» responders out there, i was one of them. Have you seen the propecia
» twins?When the combination includes minox and niz then things get even
» better.
»
» I know it first hand when i was on prop and minox my hairloss reversed
» completely and only my temples and hairline resisted, had some regrowth
» there but not enough to make a cosmetic difference.The crown and midscalp
» was a phenomenal change and people were asking me all the time if i had a
» transplant or something.
»
» Of course coffee is not our labrat and the guy did what he had to do to
» change his hair situation and i have to say congrats on the
» transformation!!!
»
» But i bet you right now anything that you want that if he stops fin AND
» nizoral and the DHT returns to its natural levels,minox wont be able to
» perform its growth properties and he will be bald like before in less than
» 6 months.

Wouldn’t it make sense then for someone who isn’t on Propecia/Minox to do exactly what coffee did and see if they can get comparable results?

Anyone on this board up for it?

Hey guys no news???

hi coffee
wow your results are just dramatic. You seemed to have lost a lot of hair to the point they weren’t visible anymore and they seem to have sprouted again.
Where do you get the LiCl ? are there any products that should have the same effect ? because i read that LiCl might be toxic for the nervous system :confused: however, maybe not when applied topically. Do you have any insights on this ?

cheers

» hi coffee
» wow your results are just dramatic. You seemed to have lost a lot of hair
» to the point they weren’t visible anymore and they seem to have sprouted
» again.
» Where do you get the LiCl ? are there any products that should have the
» same effect ? because i read that LiCl might be toxic for the nervous
» system :confused: however, maybe not when applied topically. Do you have any
» insights on this ?
»
» cheers

Agreed on the toxicity of too much LiCl, and the possibility of other effects at even lower dosages. When I was reading up on it, I was concerned to understand what types of systemic dosages would cause problems (either toxicity or levels used for actual medical treatments). I only intended to use the treatments topically, but wanted to keep the dosages low enough so that even if 100% systemic absorption occurred, I would still be well below these levels. Definitely do lots of research on this if trying anything.

LiCl is available as a chemical reagent conveniently from internet sources, even in pharmaceutical grades (getting other stuff in there with it is probably something to be concerned about). Lithium Orotate is probably even easier to acquire since it is available as a supplement, but I don’t have experience with it. Presumably it would dissociate in solution similarly, but I haven’t looked at the chemistry to understand how similarly these two compounds might behave in solution.

This is the kind of result that not a single company with millions invested has been able to produce.

Very well done.

» This is the kind of result that not a single company with millions invested
» has been able to produce.

Hehe, except it could be just that: a company with millions invested, namely Merck. We still don’t know if these results are due to finasteride, which Coffee started taking during the process.

I have a suggestion and a question.

Suggestion: apply your formulation BEFORE the needling so the needle pushes the formulation inside. Of course you can also apply it afterwards.

Question: maybe you have explained it somewhere but I can’t find it. You say you punch 3000 holes. Is that per day/session. How often do you make how many holes?

Thanks.

» I have a suggestion and a question.
»
» Suggestion: apply your formulation BEFORE the needling so the needle
» pushes the formulation inside. Of course you can also apply it afterwards.
»
» Question: maybe you have explained it somewhere but I can’t find it. You
» say you punch 3000 holes. Is that per day/session. How often do you make
» how many holes?
»
» Thanks.

I think this was the entry you were mentioning:

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-52276.html

It was typically between 3000-9000 per session, over about 100 square centimeters, so that’s between 30 and 90 wound channels per square centimeter in one session. I’ve been typically spacing the sessions about 2 weeks apart, and applying the two solutions for 8 or ten days or so after each session.

» We have reasoned that a egf antagonist plus immunosuppression would
» probably be enough, and the “extras” will simply help the follicles to be
» larger and perhaps more numerous. Your formula you have described here is
» probably a very good approximation of what Follica will end up going with.
» Im very optimistic about this research and think at the least much more
» donor area hair will be able to be “made” for transplantation purposes, and
» perhaps the hair created in the MPB area might be androgen resistant if we
» are lucky. Either way, I figure its a winner for all of us.

If its not adro sensitive, how would you anticipate its response to DHT? Would it be immediate, or gradual? Even if it is adro sensitive, wouldn’t chronic use of one of the current anti-andros be enough to provide years (if not a decade or more) of retention?

If the procedure works, I just don’t think the andro sensitivity will be that big of an issue for most clients. I know I’d much rather have a procedure that produces andro-sensative follicles that require some sort of maintenance regiment than undergo an invasive procedure by “doctors” who “specialize” in a nearly unregulated practice. Further, I’d also be much more willing to have repeat procedures (say every 2-5 years or so) to replace newly formed and lost andro-sensative hair than to let one of those “doctors” take a knife to my scalp.

If their protocol involves an HT, I would think its commercial success would be significantly limited when compared to one that does not. Most people have no trouble going to a medi-spa and getting some form of outpatient cosmetic treatment (laser hair removal, dermabrasion, etc.); a significantly less number of people would be willing to undergo serious cosmetic surgery. If it works, it will either produce andro-resistant hair (unlikely), or it will be considered a repeat procedure (which is actually a preferred business model from a revenue stand-point). I really don’t see it being an adjunct to HTs.

.
»
» If its not adro sensitive, how would you anticipate its response to DHT?
» Would it be immediate, or gradual? Even if it is adro sensitive, wouldn’t
» chronic use of one of the current anti-andros be enough to provide years
» (if not a decade or more) of retention?
I think the usage of finasteride or some new topical anti-androgen would help someone probably keep this new EDHIN hair until extreme old age because that hair will never experience the full androgenic onslaught that all our hairs did from puberty until the time we got on finasteride.»

I know of one experiment that added high androgen stimulis to ex vivo hair follicles taken from occipital scalp (back and sides), and it showed that even just enough testosterone (not to mention dihydrotestosterone) could make the ‘donor’ hairs “sensitive” to androgens. The hairs in the frontal scalp have more androgen receptors on them. If we could “seed” as many androgen receptors on hairs located in the occipital scalp…I wonder if eventually those hairs would become sensitized to androgens also.

The EXCITING THING about FOLLICA’S method to me FCKHRLS is that as we learn about what genes are associated with androgenic alopecia, like the one(s) located on chromosome 20, and the particular variant of the androgen receptor gene that 98.6% of all balding men had in that german study, just perhaps we will be able to inhibit these genes during the “hair making” process of those 2 weeks or so post-wounding. That might guarantee hairs with very little androgen sensitivity. Thats an encouraging thought.

I think its important that people try and keep the hairs FOLLICA’S wounding process makes, because miniaturized hairs will still have full sized (even larger in fact) sebacous glands and the arrector pilli muscles are still there also. Plus, the miniaturized hairs never stop being an immune target and inflamme the whole area of the balding scalp. It would be good to keep the hairs made up there because in ensuing passes, that area of the scalp will be getting crowded with first and second “generations” of hairs if someone simply let them miniaturize and “did the process again”. The “yield” may not be as high if someone kept on doing it over and over.

» If the procedure works, I just don’t think the andro sensitivity will be
» that big of an issue for most clients. I know I’d much rather have a
» procedure that produces andro-sensative follicles that require some sort of
» maintenance regiment than undergo an invasive procedure by “doctors” who
» “specialize” in a nearly unregulated practice. Further, I’d also be much
» more willing to have repeat procedures (say every 2-5 years or so) to
» replace newly formed and lost andro-sensative hair than to let one of those
» “doctors” take a knife to my scalp.
»
» If their protocol involves an HT, I would think its commercial success
» would be significantly limited when compared to one that does not. Most
» people have no trouble going to a medi-spa and getting some form of
» outpatient cosmetic treatment (laser hair removal, dermabrasion, etc.); a
» significantly less number of people would be willing to undergo serious
» cosmetic surgery. If it works, it will either produce andro-resistant hair
» (unlikely), or it will be considered a repeat procedure (which is actually
» a preferred business model from a revenue stand-point). I really don’t see
» it being an adjunct to HTs.

My thoughts on Follica “in the donor area” is that even if the hairs done in the front are just as andro-sensitive as the ones already there, we AT LEAST know that we can indeed make more “donor” hair via follica, and “re-charge” our donor areas if we had already had a procedure in the past. There are quite a few men out there who have had transplants whose donor area is thin-looking and needs to be buffed up. Of course it would be a much more elegant solution for them to be able to make more hair upfront that is not androgen sensitive and I indeed hope that is the case, but the former possibility is a “worse case scenario”. We KNOW this works. We have seen pics of two cancer patients who had been on chemo and had taken getfitinib grow large terminal hair where large terminal hair shouldn’t be (whisker-like hairs on a guy’s nose, and terminal hair right in the frontal middle of a long-bald head…dark hair of high quality, proving that it was ‘new’). Id be genuinely suprised if Follica and Aderans both failed to work at least some. Intercytex kind of led us all on, and probably just wasn’t having very good results, but they were merely culturing inductive cells and shooting them into the dermis and hoping the stem cells would direct them to make new hairs. These other two approaches are more advanced than that.