Let\'s make our predictions now

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
21

» » » » Let us know make our definitive predictions just for fun on the
» matter
» » » of
» » » » Acell.
» » » »
» » » » For those that believe this will create a way to produce a
» » cosmetically
» » » » acceptable growing head of hair regardless of extent of loss (NW
» 1-7)
» » » say:
» » » » Yea
» » » »
» » » » For those that believe that this product will fail, due to either
» » » safety
» » » » or efficacy (how well it works) say: Nay
» » » »
» » » » I recommend basing your answer on logic, not emotion.
» » »
» » » Logic? Ok.
» » »
» » » 1. There has been NO proof that Acell will have any effect on human
» » » hair.
» » »
» » » 2. If Acell did work on human hair, it would only be applicable
» within
» » » the framework of a HT, in which case you’d have to have 20,000-40,000
» » » plugs, at a cost of somewhere around $60,000-$100,000+. None of you
» » could
» » » afford that, because if any of you could, you wouldn’t be on this
» board
» » -
» » » you’d be out, making money and getting laid.
» » »
» » » So, logically, Acell is not the answer. But you don’t want logic.
» You
» » » want me to say “yea”.
» »
» »
» » 1. I could afford it so you are not right in this point.
» »
» » 2. Well this is more serious point of course. Yes there is absolutely
» no
» » guarantee that it will work for hair. All we know is that it worked on
» » other mammals, none of them had male pattern baldness, just missing skin
» &
» » flesh, that regrew with hair. I dont know if it will work. But I admit
» that
» » If I didnt know that it grew fingertip with nail and bone, I would
» laugh
» » off everyone who would even suggest that possibility. And you know what?
» It
» » did grow a fingertip with nail and even perfect fingerprint.
» »
» » So although there is absolutely no guarantee, chance is, it might work.
» If
» » this does work for everything but human hair, then we are fubar for
» decade
» » probably.
»
» 1. If you could afford it, do you have any idea what an inconvenience it
» would be to go through multiple, invasive, painful procedures to get a true
» full head of hair from current hair transplant techniques? Have you seen
» the pics in the HT forum? Most of those guys look like Frankenstein for 6
» months or more before their transplanted hair takes, never mind that its a
» totally unregulated specialty. Anything that includes a HT is not a cure,
» just as current HTs are not a cure.
»
» 2. The fingertip issue has been debunked numerous times. His finger tip
» would have grown back on its own without the assistance of an Acell-like
» product, as would have the fur of those animals.
»
» Its Follica or something else, and both those possibilities are at least
» 10 years out.

I dont think that fingertip would grow back, try cutting 1cm of yours off and see for yourself.

Although I would like to have fast and easy “pop this pill once for me please” cure, I preffer inconvenient way to head of hair to no way.

22

» » » » » Let us know make our definitive predictions just for fun on the
» » matter
» » » » of
» » » » » Acell.
» » » » »
» » » » » For those that believe this will create a way to produce a
» » » cosmetically
» » » » » acceptable growing head of hair regardless of extent of loss (NW
» » 1-7)
» » » » say:
» » » » » Yea
» » » » »
» » » » » For those that believe that this product will fail, due to either
» » » » safety
» » » » » or efficacy (how well it works) say: Nay
» » » » »
» » » » » I recommend basing your answer on logic, not emotion.
» » » »
» » » » Logic? Ok.
» » » »
» » » » 1. There has been NO proof that Acell will have any effect on
» human
» » » » hair.
» » » »
» » » » 2. If Acell did work on human hair, it would only be applicable
» » within
» » » » the framework of a HT, in which case you’d have to have
» 20,000-40,000
» » » » plugs, at a cost of somewhere around $60,000-$100,000+. None of
» you
» » » could
» » » » afford that, because if any of you could, you wouldn’t be on this
» » board
» » » -
» » » » you’d be out, making money and getting laid.
» » » »
» » » » So, logically, Acell is not the answer. But you don’t want logic.
» » You
» » » » want me to say “yea”.
» » »
» » »
» » » 1. I could afford it so you are not right in this point.
» » »
» » » 2. Well this is more serious point of course. Yes there is absolutely
» » no
» » » guarantee that it will work for hair. All we know is that it worked
» on
» » » other mammals, none of them had male pattern baldness, just missing
» skin
» » &
» » » flesh, that regrew with hair. I dont know if it will work. But I
» admit
» » that
» » » If I didnt know that it grew fingertip with nail and bone, I would
» » laugh
» » » off everyone who would even suggest that possibility. And you know
» what?
» » It
» » » did grow a fingertip with nail and even perfect fingerprint.
» » »
» » » So although there is absolutely no guarantee, chance is, it might
» work.
» » If
» » » this does work for everything but human hair, then we are fubar for
» » decade
» » » probably.
» »
» » 1. If you could afford it, do you have any idea what an inconvenience
» it
» » would be to go through multiple, invasive, painful procedures to get a
» true
» » full head of hair from current hair transplant techniques? Have you
» seen
» » the pics in the HT forum? Most of those guys look like Frankenstein for
» 6
» » months or more before their transplanted hair takes, never mind that its
» a
» » totally unregulated specialty. Anything that includes a HT is not a
» cure,
» » just as current HTs are not a cure.
» »
» » 2. The fingertip issue has been debunked numerous times. His finger
» tip
» » would have grown back on its own without the assistance of an
» Acell-like
» » product, as would have the fur of those animals.
» »
» » Its Follica or something else, and both those possibilities are at
» least
» » 10 years out.
»
» I dont think that fingertip would grow back, try cutting 1cm of yours off
» and see for yourself.

I don’t need to; its been documented many times that people have lost the tips of their fingers all the way to the first joint and they’ve grown back. A friend of mine lost the tips of his first three metacarpals in a motorcycle accident and they all grew back on their own, without the assistance of any magic powder. They looked much like that fellow’s finger.

But that is neither here nor there; even if it had played a role in the regeneration of the finger tip, again, what makes you think it would do the same for hair?

23

how much has your friend lost? how many cms?

24

» how much has your friend lost? how many cms?

The most extensive damage was to his ring finger, of which he lost up to 2/3 of his nail. The damage certainly included bone. Do some research (a little googling will do it); regenerating a fingertip is not uncommon.

Edit:

This from a research document I found after about 10 seconds of googling:

“The phenomenon of fingertip regeneration in humans was initially described for children, but later shown to extend to adults. For both children and adults, regeneration of the fingertip involves the integrated regeneration of many tissues, including nail matrix, nail bed, finger pulp, sensory organs, dermis and epidermis, all of which reform to a normal or near normal cosmetic and physiological state through healing by secondary intention. Animal models for digit tip regeneration in adults demonstrate distal bone growth associated with a regeneration response. There also several documented instances of regeneration of the distal phalangeal element of the toe following traumatin injury or voluntary resection to relieve hammer toe, thus, it would appear that the regenerative capabilities in human limbs includes the tips of both fingers and toes.”

http://course1.winona.edu/lreuter/309/ab00/Regeneratio.htm

25

interesting

26

» The only “mad” ones around here are the eternal optimists who have
» multiple threads about Acell’s inevitable success. “When will you get an
» Acell transplant”; “When I get my Acell hair”; etc., etc., etc. There’s no
» proof that Acell has any relevance, and yet its Gho/ICX all over again.
» One needs no proof that most of this board is once again crazed other than
» the immediate and vicious personal attacks that befall anyone who dare
» question the validity of some of these “theories”. You guys never learn.
» But do continue - its quite entertaining.

Indeed, I am p*** off to see this forum tagged by patronising comments - man I am 35, am not here to impress girls, being happily married, etc., just like to know about HAIR MULTIPLICATION AND RESEARCH, and not having the usual rubish/bashing kinda:

  1. “hair does not make you a hunk” versus “of course it does” (to represent the 2 opposite sides) - this type of comments should be posted in another forum category anyway…

  2. “This won’t work as anything else previously done” - it’s with this type comments we’ll still be hunting gorillas/elephants/buffalos/full-of-hair-mice and not even knowning how to make a fire. But after all, I can see/understand how/why Copernicus was burned by the church (I was not suprised to see that on another forum, the 1st guy to have posted results/pics after dermabrasion received personal threats!!!)

Science/Research is made of success and failure, and if you () can’t handle that, then don’t even bother to read this forum category - () you applies for over-optimistics and over-pessimistics alike (also recently there seem to be less and less over-optimistics on this forum, let’s face it!)

  1. Superiority comments such as “You guys never learn. But do continue - its quite entertaining” - is your life so sad?

» Here’s the hard facts:
»
» 1. ICX is dead
» 2. Follica will require at least 5-10 years of trials
» 3. There is no proof Acell works on human hair

I would rather say:

  1. ICX seems to have reached a serious “obstacle”, similar to Gho etc - but I wouldn’t consider them “dead and burried” - at least YET
  2. Follica WON’T require 5-10 years trials; even though this was the case in the US for the FDA (which 95% of people arguing it doesn’t need it, since medics are already available), IF it was working, don’t you think that there wouldn’t be a company based on another country where trials are shorter (e.g. India, Russia) trying it? I have heard of at least 2 groups of people interested in such a development (sources: other hair loss forums).
  3. Nope, fully agree on this one - but why not to try? Remember, there were already publications about cases of hair regrowth after accidents (I can’t find the links provided by Benji) a few decades ago… and only recently has it been “fully” researched and tstarted to be tried (thanks to Follica)

» I know its hard to face, and I feel for you. I know its easy for me - a
» NW 2 - to bring a harsh but rational voice to these discussions. But its
» better that you maintain some reasonable level of skepticism than
» continually set yourselves up for disappointment. If this board is indeed
» for discussion about research, you people wouldn’t be foaming at the mouth
» screaming, “It works! I can feel it! Now lets prove it!”.

Who said that? I must have some serious reading problems…

27

» » The only “mad” ones around here are the eternal optimists who have
» » multiple threads about Acell’s inevitable success. “When will you get
» an
» » Acell transplant”; “When I get my Acell hair”; etc., etc., etc. There’s
» no
» » proof that Acell has any relevance, and yet its Gho/ICX all over again.
»
» » One needs no proof that most of this board is once again crazed other
» than
» » the immediate and vicious personal attacks that befall anyone who dare
» » question the validity of some of these “theories”. You guys never
» learn.
» » But do continue - its quite entertaining.
»
» Indeed, I am p*** off to see this forum tagged by patronising
» comments - man I am 35, am not here to impress girls, being happily
» married, etc., just like to know about HAIR MULTIPLICATION AND RESEARCH,
» and not having the usual rubish/bashing kinda:
»
» 1. “hair does not make you a hunk” versus “of course it does” (to
» represent the 2 opposite sides) - this type of comments should be posted in
» another forum category anyway…
»
» 2. “This won’t work as anything else previously done” - it’s with this
» type comments we’ll still be hunting
» gorillas/elephants/buffalos/full-of-hair-mice and not even knowning how to
» make a fire. But after all, I can see/understand how/why Copernicus was
» burned by the church (I was not suprised to see that on another forum, the
» 1st guy to have posted results/pics after dermabrasion received personal
» threats!!!)
»
» Science/Research is made of success and failure, and if you () can’t
» handle that, then don’t even bother to read this forum category - () you
» applies for over-optimistics and over-pessimistics alike (also recently
» there seem to be less and less over-optimistics on this forum, let’s face
» it!)
»
» 3. Superiority comments such as “You guys never learn. But do continue -
» its quite entertaining” - is your life so sad?
»
»
» » Here’s the hard facts:
» »
» » 1. ICX is dead
» » 2. Follica will require at least 5-10 years of trials
» » 3. There is no proof Acell works on human hair
»
» I would rather say:
»
» 1. ICX seems to have reached a serious “obstacle”, similar to Gho etc -
» but I wouldn’t consider them “dead and burried” - at least YET
» 2. Follica WON’T require 5-10 years trials; even though this was the case
» in the US for the FDA (which 95% of people arguing it doesn’t need it,
» since medics are already available), IF it was working, don’t you think
» that there wouldn’t be a company based on another country where trials are
» shorter (e.g. India, Russia) trying it? I have heard of at least 2 groups
» of people interested in such a development (sources: other hair loss
» forums).
» 3. Nope, fully agree on this one - but why not to try? Remember, there
» were already publications about cases of hair regrowth after accidents (I
» can’t find the links provided by Benji) a few decades ago… and only
» recently has it been “fully” researched and tstarted to be tried (thanks to
» Follica)
»
»
» » I know its hard to face, and I feel for you. I know its easy for me
» - a
» » NW 2 - to bring a harsh but rational voice to these discussions. But
» its
» » better that you maintain some reasonable level of skepticism than
» » continually set yourselves up for disappointment. If this board is
» indeed
» » for discussion about research, you people wouldn’t be foaming at the
» mouth
» » screaming, “It works! I can feel it! Now lets prove it!”.
»
» Who said that? I must have some serious reading
» problems…

Well, other than my own quotes, I didn’t understand most of what you posted. But as for Follica’s timeline:

  1. Clearly they developed a protocol well over a year ago, maybe even earlier. They are now just starting pretrial experiments which don’t seem to concern most aspects of their protocol. We’re probably two (or more) years into the science, and they are no where near commercialization. So how long do you think its going to take?

  2. You think that some third-world lab is going to magically decipher all the science behind the ambiguous patent and start growing hair by the Fall?

With regards to Acell, you admit there is no evidence that it has any relevancy, and yet this board is clogged with threads about it. You’re all in a tizzy over NOTHING. The finger tip? Debunked. Horse and dog fur? Its well documented that both those animals regenerate fur without the aid of special dust, and even if Acell was the reason for the regrowth, fur is not human hair.

Its amazing how angry you people get at any suggestion that you may be over-reacting.

28

» Well, other than my own quotes, I didn’t understand most of what you
» posted.

Ups, I realised my previous post sounded more like a strange dialect than anything else; hard to get back to English after a few weeks in Spain.

» But as for Follica’s timeline: 1. Clearly they developed a protocol well over a year ago, maybe even
» earlier. They are now just starting pretrial experiments which don’t seem
» to concern most aspects of their protocol. We’re probably two (or more)
» years into the science, and they are no where near commercialization. So
» how long do you think its going to take?

Provided it fully works (incl. issues such as density & reproductibility of results), I could see it actually coming faster than “your” ten years estimation - careful here, I used “COULD”! I based this opinion on the fact that although the protocol seems to be as long as a Fidel Castro’s speech, I still believe that the major difficulties will be to find the right “cocktail” of medics. This could either be straightforward or take ages - luck being another key component (unless we have been “duped” from the start by this company).

To say the truth, after being once more than skeptic about Follica, I have been surprised by results obtained by individuals on a few hair loss forums using very basic medics/dermabrasion techniques: although limited results were reported, I believe a solution COULD be available pretty soon - on theory at least. (Provided of course these results are not fake or over-exaggerated)

» 2. You think that some third-world lab is going to magically decipher all
» the science behind the ambiguous patent and start growing hair by the
» Fall?

I’ll be careful to use the “3rd world” term:-| I based my comments on the fact that more and more biotech & pharmaceutics companies are establishing themselves in e.g. India for not only cost-related reasons, but also because their FDA-approval time being much shorter (I provided a link to a recent studies/statistics on this a few months ago). Again, I believe at least a couple of groups (researchers/investors?) are thinking of developing their “own” solution elsewhere. Good scientists are not limited to one Institute, and I still don’t think it is as hard understanding the Follica protocol as say relativity in physics.

» With regards to Acell, you admit there is no evidence that it has any
» relevancy, and yet this board is clogged with threads about it. You’re all
» in a tizzy over NOTHING. The finger tip? Debunked. Horse and dog fur?
» Its well documented that both those animals regenerate fur without the aid
» of special dust, and even if Acell was the reason for the regrowth, fur is
» not human hair.
»
» Its amazing how angry you people get at any suggestion that you may be
» over-reacting.

Yes I am personally skeptical about Acell rejuvenating hair (thanks for the few posts on the self-regeneration of hair/fur in animals!). However: 1. why not to try? 2. Why would have the US army “invested” in Acell without results? Even more important… 3. where else to speak about it, if not on an hair loss forum?

Unfortunately this forum has seen an increase of personal attacks since the whole Intercytex saga. That’s were I start to be pissed off really – where else to exchange new ideas, however strange they might sound, without being patronized (this is definitely an English term!) as being … well I won’t repeat all the idiotic comments I have read here? (e.g. “Accept that you will stay bald your whole life”, “nothing will come for many years” “women are attracted by other things than bald guys” etc – thanks I am not in this RESEARCH AND HM forum to hear those comments and theories)

29

I’m withdrawing my prediction. With the new information I see it quite likely not to happen.

» » Let us know make our definitive predictions just for fun on the matter
» of
» » Acell.
» »
» » For those that believe this will create a way to produce a cosmetically
» » acceptable growing head of hair regardless of extent of loss (NW 1-7)
» say:
» » Yea
» »
» » For those that believe that this product will fail, due to either
» safety
» » or efficacy (how well it works) say: Nay
» »
» » I recommend basing your answer on logic, not emotion.
»
» with extreme efforts it imho could. Though just imagine that you would
» have to go through series of woundings and HT’s to fix any visible
» imperfections wherever it fails to work and risk permanent scars close to
» FLAP surgeries.
»
» Also low NW guys will hate it, diffuse thinners will hate it. Basically
» I’m pretty sure that most guys will stay reading this forum and waiting for
» something better :slight_smile:
»
» What I’m saying is that it will work but will not be an easy and
» straightforward cure. If you have a lot of time and lot of money, then this
» can help you to stay away from body hair. Thats all I expect.

30

» » » Wow. You have a lot of free time on your hands.
» »
» » I’m a sucker for hard luck cases.
» » In fact, I’m willing to help you find a new bridge to live under.
» » Trolls like bridges… don’t they?
» »
» »
»
»
» I think your inability to point to one rational reason for your optimism
» over Acell speaks volumes. You won’t even mention the animal pictures so
» many claim as proof of concept (which is laughable). But if it helps you
» stay sane, then I guess its doing some good. I’m sure some equally
» fantastic discovery will surface, and you’ll have a new fad to chase. Until
» then, you and your buddies can sit around and offer absolute conjecture as
» fact, all the while ignoring reality.

Proof of concept, I’ll help him out: How about the fact it has been proven in soft tissues and hard tissues. Just regenerated a bone stump in a soldier. It is expected to grow an esophugus in cancer patients. This involves taking out the tissue and implanting a sheet the shap of an esophugus (would you do that if you thought it would not work?). How about diluted ECM’s are already used in hole in heart operations and are used in diabetic ulcers that do not heal.