Im getting off getfitinib------SIDE EFFECTS

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
21

» » Getfitinib is in the Follica patent as a possible part of the formula
» they
» » will use after wounding.
» »
» » If Follica’s process gets to market there is a chance that getfitinib
» will
» » be used as part of it.
» » Although I’m certain it would be made into a topical or injectable and
» » probably in a much smaller amount.
» »
» » Your right though, it would take a much braver man than me to try oral
» » getfitinib given the possible side affects, unless my life depended on
» it.
»
»
»
»
»
» I suppose one could really look through the kit patent and see what
» excipients and whatnot they intend to use in the topical cream and see if
» they closely match dermovan. THe percentages were given in a range from .01
» to .5% in the patent. So perhaps just one getfitinib pill crushed up and
» mixed and allowed to sit for a day in dermovan cream might be an acceptable
» topical formulation of it. I’ll probably look into that over the next week
» or so (Im going to be kinda busy this week).
»
»
»
» Cal-----cedarwood, lavender, thyme, and rosemary are the four classic
» essential oils for hairloss.
» Randomized Trial of Aromatherapy
» That picture is still the greatest hair regrowth picture Ive ever seen. It
» used the essential oils for alopecia areata in a Scottish Study. Cedarwood
» is in a couple of patents for reducing sebum, and was the best
» sebum-reducing agent that Johnson and Johnson tested. Cedarwood is also
» anti-bacterial and anti-microbial and supposedly ups oxygen in whatever
» tissue that its administered to somehow. Lavender has been showed to block
» the androgen receptor and stimulate the estrogen receptor, thyme is a
» natural antihistamine and it suppresses several prostaglandins (like
» latanaprost and nizoral), and rosemary is supposed to be a potent
» anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory (COX-2 inhibitor). Ive always wondered
» if these together would have been “good” for hairloss. Theyve never been
» formally tested (and probably never will be). All are alcohol soluble, and
» can then be cut with purified/distilled water.
»
»
»
»
»
» Hanginginthere,
» Getfitinib is in the follica patent. I wounded, waited two days, and
» did 7 days of it. I got the side effects associated with it (which suck by
» the way). Follica is going to put it (or some other egf-antagonist
» mentioned in the patent) in a topical cream most likely. Since Im certainly
» no topicals expert, I thought I’d just try it internally. I suppose if I
» ever try it again…I’ll see if I can get it to mix with a topical cream
» like oil of olay or dermovan or whatever instead. The side effects (for me)
» really sucked.
» Hanging,
» There really isn’t all that much to the follica patent if you ever
» care to read it. It looks like this: abrade, wait three to five days
» (depending on when keratinocytes are covereing the abraded area) and then
» use a topical they will make containing getfitinib, minoxidil, an
» anti-androgen, an anti-histamine, a retinoid like retin-A, an
» anti-inflammatory COX-inhibitor like aspirin, thats about it. It will
» probably be applied for 7-10 days. Thats it. They may use a topical
» immunosuppressant used for eczema or psoriasis in their formulation
» also-----and more remotely might use some ectodyspalsin DNA and fiberblast
» growth factor, but its unlikely they will need to do so. Its simplicity is
» the only reason Im willing to fool around with it. If it was complex, like
» cellular HM, I wouldn’t even attempt to fool with it.
» BTW_----you wont “get cancer” from using an anti-cancer compound. There is
» a very slight risk of a lung side effect that is heightened if you are
» Asian, very old, underweight, or smoke. Im none of those things, so I
» thought I’d be OK. Ive had no breathing problems. So I figure I’ll be
» alright once this acne clears up…I certainly DID get that.

Benji, you should have, what, 20 or more pills left. That would give you over 40 tries at this topically. I don’t even think the shelf life of getfitinib will allow you enough time to give it 40 + cracks at it. It is not that hard to mix your own. You get it down once, you would do the same for each attempt. The only thing you would have to worry about is how to wound and the timing of application and what other stuff to take in conjunction with it. Or, you can sell some of your stash (in private, off the boards of course) to others who are willing to try this.

22

» » anyone who takes a cancer drug for mpb should very seriously have his
» brain
» » examined.
» »
» » i make no exceptions to that rule, just because someone is a member of
» the
» » hairsite board.
» »
» » benji and whoever else took this cancer drug for their mpb need to see
» a
» » psychiatrist.
» »
» » end of story.
»
»
»
» yawn youve never added anything to this board, anything at all

The folks who are attempting to test the protocol in the patent are providing an invaluable service to this community. I certainly hope that NO ONE who is involved in home testing is in anyway influenced by negative posters. The most supportive action we can take as a community is to simply ignore them. It would be one thing to criticize folks who speculate about when Aderans takes its product to market, because how would anyone on this board really know. The follica DIY testers are potentially a part of the solution. It’s in no one’s best interest to ask rhetorical questions, give negative opinions for the sake of sharing, or create any other barriers that would slow down this community’s efforts to a) learn if Follica can be successful and/or b) actually find the right protocol to follow.

23

Blah, blah, cancer this, cancer that.

But what about the health damage of living with long-term MPB? What about the indirect depressions, loss of women, loss of career ambition, letting your whole body’s health go to sh*t because you can’t look like you want to anyway, etc.

Genfilitib might not do my body any favors, but I honestly think living with long-term MPB has been messing my body up much worse.

(Hangin or fckhrlss or somebody will probably read that last paragraph and say: “It shouldn’t matter that much to you, that means you’re sick to let it.” But the bottom line is that HAIR LOSS DOES MATTER, A WHOLE LOT, to tons of totally normal people. And I’ve had it, VISIBLY, since I was about 15. And THAT is all that matters when it comes to deciding how to treat something.)

24

cal, now that we know oral EGFR can cause somewhat serious sideeffects. What do you think about topical application? Is there any data/info to suggest that oral application of gefitinib will metabolize? systemically, localy??

25

» you should never have been on that shyte in the first place…
»
» seriously, i don’t know what the problem is with people on this board.
»
» someone brings up some kind of faddish “solution” and then a whole bunch
» of people make a whole bunch of posts about it, with their amateurish
» knowledge, and put forth all these theories without any hard scientific
» evidence (maybe just a few articles or wild speculation that someone read),
» and it takes on a life of its own…
»
» within weeks, there are massive threads about these idiot “solutions” that
» i know will never work, and will cause more harm and damage than they
» help.
»
» and then if you try to call 'em on it, and point out how vapid and
» uninformed they are spouting all their pseudo-scientific nonsense, they get
» all defensive and make long posts defending their stupidity and their
» god-given rights to be just damn stupid…
»
» …and on and on it goes…

…and then someone like you comes along on an HM & RESEARCH forum where individules are actually, for gods sakes, doing just that and yet that seems to upset you? These people are actually being pioneers for all of us. I mean why the phuck do you come on this forum anyway? Do you think that maybe you might get some decorating tips for your new kitchen?

26

As I’ve said, there are lines that I won’t cross. Taking Gefitinib after reading up about it is one of those lines. Be careful m8. None of us want to wind up as a hairy bastard wheezing his way up the stairs.

27

» Hangin, Baldbaby,
»
» Thanks for the advice that taking cancer drugs for hair issues is crazy.
» None of us ever thought of that before you guys pointed it out.
»
» Thanks for advising others not to follow our paths. We had been telling
» anyone who would listen that everything we did was 100% safe. We were
» telling eveyrone that they absolutely NEEDED to do copy our actions ASAP or
» else they would be the only bald guys left in 2009.
»
» I don’t know what we would do without you guys’ inputs. Some of the
» posters her just keep restating the obvious and they’re really annoying in
» comparison.

ouch seems i hit a sore spot

28

» » you should never have been on that shyte in the first place…
» »
» » seriously, i don’t know what the problem is with people on this board.
» »
» » someone brings up some kind of faddish “solution” and then a whole
» bunch
» » of people make a whole bunch of posts about it, with their amateurish
» » knowledge, and put forth all these theories without any hard scientific
» » evidence (maybe just a few articles or wild speculation that someone
» read),
» » and it takes on a life of its own…
» »
» » within weeks, there are massive threads about these idiot “solutions”
» that
» » i know will never work, and will cause more harm and damage than they
» » help.
» »
» » and then if you try to call 'em on it, and point out how vapid and
» » uninformed they are spouting all their pseudo-scientific nonsense, they
» get
» » all defensive and make long posts defending their stupidity and their
» » god-given rights to be just damn stupid…
» »
» » …and on and on it goes…
»
»
» …and then someone like you comes along on an HM & RESEARCH forum where
» individules are actually, for gods sakes, doing just that

doing just what??

your comment makes no sense… read your post one more time and compare it to what I wrote. you must have been smoking the pipe when you typed that entire comment. Your comment makes absolutely no sense if you read mine first.

29

» » » and then if you try to call 'em on it, and point out how vapid and
» » » uninformed they are spouting all their pseudo-scientific nonsense,
» they
» » get
» » » all defensive and make long posts defending their stupidity and their
» » » god-given rights to be just damn stupid…
» » »
» » » …and on and on it goes…
» »
» »
» » …and then someone like you comes along on an HM & RESEARCH forum
» where
» » individules are actually, for gods sakes, doing just that
»
»
» doing just what??
»
» your comment makes no sense… read your post one more time and compare
» it to what I wrote. you must have been smoking the pipe when you typed
» that entire comment. Your comment makes absolutely no sense if you read
» mine first.

You’re absolutely right. I forgot that you were the genius on this board. Everyone please consult BB before anymore DIY Follica experiments. Better yet lets just wait “5 more years” for the real cure to arrive.

30

»
»
»
» Cal-----cedarwood, lavender, thyme, and rosemary are the four classic
» essential oils for hairloss.
» Randomized Trial of Aromatherapy
» That picture is still the greatest hair regrowth picture Ive ever seen. It
» used the essential oils for alopecia areata in a Scottish Study. Cedarwood
» is in a couple of patents for reducing sebum, and was the best
» sebum-reducing agent that Johnson and Johnson tested. Cedarwood is also
» anti-bacterial and anti-microbial and supposedly ups oxygen in whatever
» tissue that its administered to somehow. Lavender has been showed to block
» the androgen receptor and stimulate the estrogen receptor, thyme is a
» natural antihistamine and it suppresses several prostaglandins (like
» latanaprost and nizoral), and rosemary is supposed to be a potent
» anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory (COX-2 inhibitor). Ive always wondered
» if these together would have been “good” for hairloss. Theyve never been
» formally tested (and probably never will be). All are alcohol soluble, and
» can then be cut with purified/distilled water.

So adding a few drops of these oils to your shampooing, or just a few drops even with out showring, would help?

How did they use the oils in the study?
»
»
»
»
»
»

31

cal, now that we know oral EGFR can cause somewhat serious sideeffects. What do you think about topical application? Is there any data/info to suggest that oral application of gefitinib will metabolize? systemically, localy??

I don’t know about topical Genfilitib’s possible systemic effects. In fact I’m not sure if anyone has ever done anything on it.

I believe there was some systemic success with another drug of a similar chemical makeup to G in some unrelated testing. Don’t take it as gospel but I think that’s probably where Folica’s hopes have come from about G working topically.

For what it’s worth, my own run with oral Leflunomide didn’t do sh*t to me. Not in comparison to what Benji is complaining about with G. I got some mild stomach & crapping issues, but a bad hotdog at a baseball game could easily do worse.

I’d do that round of oral Leflunomide again in a heartbeat. If it’s gonna be oral G or oral L, gimme the L all day long. Honestly taking the 1mg daily oral Finasteride causes me a lot more trouble than L did.

Like I’ve said before, I think the lung trouble is mainly a product of people with damaged lungs taking the pills in the first place. I don’t think it’s a case where everyone taking any EGF-R drug gets the damage and only some people are bad enough to notice it. (Which is what probably happens with Finasteride side effects.) There were cases of preexisting lung troubles in the rheumatoid arthritis patients, combined with the EGF-R inhibition of the drug, . . . it probably adds up to more than the lungs can handle. I suspect that combination is probably doing a whole lot more damage than the sum of its two parts.

Either way, there have been a couple hundred thousand people taking Leflunomide in the last decade. Usually taking it for months & years at a stretch. They’re not all dropping dead of bad lungs. Even most of the complaints voiced about the drug seem to be mainly about other things.

32

» Here are the listed side effects for getfitinib:

Sorry you had such a rough go at it, Benji. We’ll compare notes soon. I’ll post an update in a week or so.

BTW, here’s an image for the rest of you, showing gefitinib-induced acne (these are from an actual patients on gefitinib):

1109_image3.jpg1280×910

33

» » Here are the listed side effects for getfitinib:
»
» Sorry you had such a rough go at it, Benji. We’ll compare notes soon. I’ll
» post an update in a week or so.
»
» BTW, here’s an image for the rest of you, showing gefitinib-induced acne
» (these are from an actual patients on gefitinib):
»
»

1109_image3.jpg1280×910

This just re-affirms that getfitinib is used as a topical. I much rather be bald than to have that happen to me. Benji wasn’t on it too long before the skin problem began, though not as severe (yet). Those photos made me loose my appetite, it is disgusting.

34

» » » Here are the listed side effects for getfitinib:
» »
» » Sorry you had such a rough go at it, Benji. We’ll compare notes soon.
» I’ll
» » post an update in a week or so.
» »
» » BTW, here’s an image for the rest of you, showing gefitinib-induced
» acne
» » (these are from an actual patients on gefitinib):
» »
» »

1109_image3.jpg1280×910

»
» This just re-affirms that getfitinib is used as a topical. I much rather
» be bald than to have that happen to me. Benji wasn’t on it too long before
» the skin problem began, though not as severe (yet). Those photos made me
» loose my appetite, it is disgusting.

YIKES!!!

I broke out worse than I ever did in my adolescence, but its pretty much cleared up now. It was nothing like that however.

The reason that you break out so bad with EGF-inhibitors of this kind is that they cause bad hyperkeratinization (for whatever reason) of the hair follicles. This means that keratinocytes “die” in the hair shaft in the skin and dont “slough off” and detatch to be carried outside the body as they should. So you have dead keratinocyte cells just sitting there in the hair follice inviting an immune system response and backing up the flow of sebum onto the skin. A bacteria colonizes in the sebum and it oxidizes----getting “dark” and forming a “blackhead”, and the buildup of sebum and associated immune response causes white blood cells to come and congregate trying to kill all the microorganisms living in the stale sebum. This causes the immune system to massively over-react and inflame the living hell out the hair follicle and you get that severe inflammatory acne. I got in after about four days. I took getfitinib for seven days. Inflammed skin is prone to acne because the pressure on the follicle “walls” help create and environment where dead keratinocytes are more likely to fall off the growing follicle and get stuck in the hair canal, starting the process all over again.

35

BTW…Ketoconazole and gefitinib Interactions - Drugs.com

Getfitinib and ketoconazole interefere with one another. I used nizoral when I washed my hair the night before I used a TCA peel. I probably screwed up right there as ketoconazole stays in the dermis at therapeutic concentration for up to seven days (Nizoral’s website). I used nizoral about four days post-wouding and used minoxidil about four days post woudning–and got an intense burning sensation.

Looking back and considering (as someone pointed out on the board) the mice experiments and the human experiment, I think the hair placodes are basically formed about one day before they are detected. The experiements in the patent reveal that on day 11 in mice, no hair follicles are detected and then–wham!–on day 12 the proto hairs are detected with staining in the dermis. This would correspond with about day 6 in humans as the hairs were detected on day 7. In other words, getfitinib on days 5 and 6 post wounding is probably all one would need.

I strongly feel but hope Im wrong that since the hair follicles are initially created so near the top of the dermis, that there is probably a risk in using any shampoo at all. In fact, I’d honestly lean toward not having any substance (chlorine is in water) touching the abraded area that could potentially chemically interact with what the epidermal stem cells are trying to do in those seven days, especially any “anti-infective” substance as the patent states.

Also, again…I cannot help but noting that experiement 7 was on human skin. No EGF-inhibition was used. The only difference between this human skin and ours was the fact that it was on SCID mice without immune systems. Anti-histamines and anti-inflammatories are in this patent. Cotsarialis has shown that when inflammation is present in neo-natal mice, hair follicles dont form. The lack of an immune system response to the woudned skin might be crucial in the development of these hairs. I dont think inhibiting androgens is going to matter one way or another because the two freak getfitnib regrowth photos (head and nose) probably almost certainly were not on an anti-androgen, but almost certainly were in people with compromised immune systems because of previous chemotherapy in those individuals.

Im pretty sure the ketoconazole invalidated my experiment. It will be a good while before I can try again (social commitments, etc). If someone asked me honestly what I thought the best way to do this was, I’d have to say…depilate and then wound three days after depilation, dont wash at all (and dont have used nizoral within at least five days before wounding)…be on cyclo from the wounding day until day 7…use getfitinib on days five and six (the drug will almost certainly be ‘active’ in the body on day 7 and 8 to an extent because of its half-life). I dont think I’d chance using anything else—especially on the abraded area. I dont think I’d wash the head until at least day 8 post wounding.

36

» BTW…Ketoconazole and gefitinib Interactions - Drugs.com
»
»
» Getfitinib and ketoconazole interefere with one another. I used nizoral
» when I washed my hair the night before I used a TCA peel. I probably
» screwed up right there as ketoconazole stays in the dermis at therapeutic
» concentration for up to seven days (Nizoral’s website). I used nizoral
» about four days post-wouding and used minoxidil about four days post
» woudning–and got an intense burning sensation.
»
»
» Looking back and considering (as someone pointed out on the board) the
» mice experiments and the human experiment, I think the hair placodes are
» basically formed about one day before they are detected. The experiements
» in the patent reveal that on day 11 in mice, no hair follicles are detected
» and then–wham!–on day 12 the proto hairs are detected with staining in
» the dermis. This would correspond with about day 6 in humans as the hairs
» were detected on day 7. In other words, getfitinib on days 5 and 6 post
» wounding is probably all one would need.
»
» I strongly feel but hope Im wrong that since the hair follicles are
» initially created so near the top of the dermis, that there is probably a
» risk in using any shampoo at all. In fact, I’d honestly lean toward not
» having any substance (chlorine is in water) touching the abraded area that
» could potentially chemically interact with what the epidermal stem cells
» are trying to do in those seven days, especially any “anti-infective”
» substance as the patent states.
»
»
» Also, again…I cannot help but noting that experiement 7 was
» on human skin. No EGF-inhibition was used. The only difference between this
» human skin and ours was the fact that it was on SCID mice without immune
» systems. Anti-histamines and anti-inflammatories are in this patent.
» Cotsarialis has shown that when inflammation is present in neo-natal mice,
» hair follicles dont form. The lack of an immune system response to the
» woudned skin might be crucial in the development of these hairs. I dont
» think inhibiting androgens is going to matter one way or another because
» the two freak getfitnib regrowth photos (head and nose) probably almost
» certainly were not on an anti-androgen, but almost certainly were in people
» with compromised immune systems because of previous chemotherapy in those
» individuals.
»
»
» Im pretty sure the ketoconazole invalidated my experiment. It will be a
» good while before I can try again (social commitments, etc). If someone
» asked me honestly what I thought the best way to do this was, I’d have to
» say…depilate and then wound three days after depilation, dont wash at
» all (and dont have used nizoral within at least five days before
» wounding)…be on cyclo from the wounding day until day 7…use
» getfitinib on days five and six (the drug will almost certainly be ‘active’
» in the body on day 7 and 8 to an extent because of its half-life). I dont
» think I’d chance using anything else—especially on the abraded area. I
» dont think I’d wash the head until at least day 8 post wounding.

Hey where did you see that nizoral (ketoconazole) interfered with getfitnib? Your hair will be pretty gross if you don’t at least rinse out with just plain water, lol. This is true if you use getfitnib topically. Maybe they sell bottled water (no chlorine) and you can rinse that way. Maybe buzzing the hair really short will help also.

37
38

» Ketoconazole and gefitinib Interactions - Drugs.com

TY, interesting.

39

» Getfitinib and ketoconazole interefere with one another. I used nizoral
» when I washed my hair the night before I used a TCA peel. I probably
» screwed up right there as ketoconazole stays in the dermis at therapeutic
» concentration for up to seven days (Nizoral’s website).

I think the interaction is more along the lines of excretion. In the liver, ketoconazole inhibits the enzyme which metabolizes gefitinib. So, if you take them both orally, you get increased levels of gefitinib (and hence more EGF inhibition). Other than altered drug levels, I don’t think ketoconzaole would interfere with gefitinib.

» The experiements
» in the patent reveal that on day 11 in mice, no hair follicles are detected
» and then–wham!–on day 12 the proto hairs are detected with staining in
» the dermis. This would correspond with about day 6 in humans as the hairs
» were detected on day 7. In other words, getfitinib on days 5 and 6 post
» wounding is probably all one would need.

I agree that the first couple of days of the window are the most important. In my opinion, the total window is probably no more than about 7 days, with a very heavy emphasis on the first 2 or 3 days or so. Originally, I thought the compound would be used for 10 days, but if you timed it right, a few days should be all that’s necessary.

I am basing the 7 day window figure on the Nature study. Specifically, a WNT inhibitor (Dkk1) was tested in four intervals in mice: days 0-10, days 0-17, days 11-14, and days 12-15. With days 0-10 of inibition only, you get a full complement of new hair follicles (97 follicles in this experiment). With days 0-17 inhibited, you get zero hair follicles. With days 11-14, you get several follicles (3 in the experiment), and days 12-15, you get just a couple of follicles (2 in the actual experiment).

What this experiment shows is the following: days 11-17 are clearly where all the magic takes place (it’s the embryonic window), and almost all of the magic takes place in the first few days of the window.

By the way, what’s so special about day 11? Day 11, in mice, is when the wounds have re-epithelialized. So, as the above experiment demonstrates, the embryonic window occurs after the wound re-epithelializes (since manipulation prior to re-epithelialization…days 0-10…has no effect). And as we have speculated, the window appears to be open very wide for only a few days, then it sharply closes over the next several days.

40

» By the way, what’s so special about day 11? Day 11, in mice, is when the
» wounds have re-epithelialized. So, as the above experiment demonstrates,
» the embryonic window occurs after the wound re-epithelializes (since
» manipulation prior to re-epithelialization…days 0-10…has no effect).
» And as we have speculated, the window appears to be open very wide for only
» a few days, then it sharply closes over the next several days.

Since the window opens after re-epithelialization, and since the juicy part of the window is very short, one area that we need to focus on (in terms of home experimentation) is recognizing the point of re-epithelialization in a wound.