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How can we get to the botton of Gho\'s HST?


#1

Although the debates around Gho are very interesting, I don’t think this issue is going to be settled by constantly debating the issue. What we need is an independent doctor - perhaps Dr. Jones or someone else - to try the technique. Willy was very effective in publicizing Acell to HT doctors and we need to take the same proactive approach with Gho. Can we work together to come up with a list of doctors who may be interested in trying this out? We should also hash out an email to them. Here’s my start to the list:

Dr. Armani
Dr. Jones
Dr. Umar
Dr. Cole

Finally, I called the HSI today and spoke to one of the doctors. Apparently they are fully booked until December this year (demand is that strong apparently). This means that we should get some informative patient feedback within the next six months or so. What worries me about Gho is that I’ve not heard or seen a post from any of his patients. Usually happy patients are more than willing to discuss their experience. The absence of patient testimonials (Gerard Joling excepted) from HSI is a little unsettling for me.


#2

Were you able to ask the doctor any questions? Did you ask him personally if this technique provides unlimited donor? Was he apprehensive or straightforward?

Thanks.


#3

» Although the debates around Gho are very interesting, I don’t think this
» issue is going to be settled by constantly debating the issue. What we need
» is an independent doctor - perhaps Dr. Jones or someone else - to try the
» technique. Willy was very effective in publicizing Acell to HT doctors and
» we need to take the same proactive approach with Gho. Can we work together
» to come up with a list of doctors who may be interested in trying this out?
» We should also hash out an email to them. Here’s my start to the list:
»
» Dr. Armani
» Dr. Jones
» Dr. Umar
» Dr. Cole
»
» Finally, I called the HSI today and spoke to one of the doctors.
» Apparently they are fully booked until December this year (demand is that
» strong apparently). This means that we should get some informative patient
» feedback within the next six months or so. What worries me about Gho is
» that I’ve not heard or seen a post from any of his patients. Usually happy
» patients are more than willing to discuss their experience. The absence of
» patient testimonials (Gerard Joling excepted) from HSI is a little
» unsettling for me.

Dr gho’s procedure is not new,he as been offering it for a few years now,so don’t hold out for patient information,its never been offered before.

I live in the UK and getting to Holland is very easy for me,so yes it would be great if proof was offered,but I do not think so.


#4

Gho has been doing HST for so many years, why is it so hard to find some real patients to talk about the work?


#5

» Although the debates around Gho are very interesting, I don’t think this
» issue is going to be settled by constantly debating the issue. What we need
» is an independent doctor - perhaps Dr. Jones or someone else - to try the
» technique. Willy was very effective in publicizing Acell to HT doctors and
» we need to take the same proactive approach with Gho. Can we work together
» to come up with a list of doctors who may be interested in trying this out?
» We should also hash out an email to them. Here’s my start to the list:
»
» Dr. Armani
» Dr. Jones
» Dr. Umar
» Dr. Cole
»
» Finally, I called the HSI today and spoke to one of the doctors.
» Apparently they are fully booked until December this year (demand is that
» strong apparently). This means that we should get some informative patient
» feedback within the next six months or so. What worries me about Gho is
» that I’ve not heard or seen a post from any of his patients. Usually happy
» patients are more than willing to discuss their experience. The absence of
» patient testimonials (Gerard Joling excepted) from HSI is a little
» unsettling for me.

Good idea. Perhaps also someone could call HSI and ask if it would be possible to meet past patients. Contacting potential doctors though is a great idea.


#6

I also feel that despite the JDT article, we will not get the certainty that we wanted.
But Gho has managed to get a lot of attention. So far, he is the winner here.

» » Although the debates around Gho are very interesting, I don’t think this
» » issue is going to be settled by constantly debating the issue. What we
» need
» » is an independent doctor - perhaps Dr. Jones or someone else - to try
» the
» » technique. Willy was very effective in publicizing Acell to HT doctors
» and
» » we need to take the same proactive approach with Gho. Can we work
» together
» » to come up with a list of doctors who may be interested in trying this
» out?
» » We should also hash out an email to them. Here’s my start to the list:
» »
» » Dr. Armani
» » Dr. Jones
» » Dr. Umar
» » Dr. Cole
» »
» » Finally, I called the HSI today and spoke to one of the doctors.
» » Apparently they are fully booked until December this year (demand is
» that
» » strong apparently). This means that we should get some informative
» patient
» » feedback within the next six months or so. What worries me about Gho is
» » that I’ve not heard or seen a post from any of his patients. Usually
» happy
» » patients are more than willing to discuss their experience. The absence
» of
» » patient testimonials (Gerard Joling excepted) from HSI is a little
» » unsettling for me.
»
» Dr gho’s procedure is not new,he as been offering it for a few years
» now,so don’t hold out for patient information,its never been offered
» before.
»
» I live in the UK and getting to Holland is very easy for me,so yes it
» would be great if proof was offered,but I do not think so.


#7

can we get an update from Gho as to what is going on?

Is he making any progress whatsoever.

I’m tired of reading all the back and forth about whether his discoveries are real or fake.


#8

» can we get an update from Gho as to what is going on?
»
» Is he making any progress whatsoever.
»
» I’m tired of reading all the back and forth about whether his discoveries
» are real or fake.

I say, lets invite GHO to this board to discuss his technique and most important to answer our Questions.

Who invites him?


#9

» What worries me about Gho is
» that I’ve not heard or seen a post from any of his patients. Usually happy
» patients are more than willing to discuss their experience. The absence of
» patient testimonials (Gerard Joling excepted) from HSI is a little
» unsettling for me.

One of his patients regularly posts on a Dutch HT board. He has had 3 procedures so far and is booked for his 4th. He speaks well of the procedure. It’s in Dutch, so I had to read it via Google translator.

I’m considering a procedure with Gho, but I’m waiting for the Euro to fall some more so it is more affordable.

If anybody goes to Gho, please follow this simple procedure. Get an acupuncture needle and some temporary tattoo ink. When you come back to your hotel after the procedure, have your travel partner tattoo a small square in the most heavily harvested area. Take daily close-up photos of the area for the first 10 days following the procedure and again at 1 month. Also document the regrowth of the implanted grafts.

There is no good reason a patient of Gho’s cannot document the donor regrowth simply, inexpensively, and accurately.

BTW, I have to dig Gho’s email address off another harddrive. I’ll try to get to it this weekend and send him an email requesting an interview. What questions would you guys most like answered?

The idea to invite him to this board is a terrible idea. He’s done that in the past, and was not treated ethically. I think baldness has driven some of the more unfortunate sufferers to near insanity; thus, they lose track of logic and begin to act purely on their damaged emotions. If we are ever going to get to the bottom of HST, we have to keep the emotions out of the mix and analyze it with logic.


#10

I just got two Questions

  1. Is it possible to get a Norwood 7 to a Norwood 1 or Norwood 0 with a very high density. (I just wanna hear a YES or NO no other BS like theoretically yes but or no but)

  2. When will his procedure or technique be available for all sufferers


#11

» I just got two Questions
»
» 1) Is it possible to get a Norwood 7 to a Norwood 1 or Norwood 0 with a
» very high density. (I just wanna hear a YES or NO no other BS like
» theoretically yes but or no but)
»
» 2) When will his procedure or technique be available for all sufferers

Thanks for the questions. The technique is already available in Gho’s clinics. I’ll ask him about the difference between the study outcome and his clinical outcomes.


#12

Correct me if I’m wrong here, I’ve paid only moderate attention to all the Gho talk lately . . .

Isn’t this just the same procedure that Gho has been messing with all along? Meaning, he was talking about the effectiveness a decade ago, and offering it at his clinic half a decade ago?

If that’s the picture, then why is it any more likely to produce that first money-shot client today than 5 years ago? Additional published papers and more recognition in the HT industry don’t change the surgical outcome of Gho’s work at his clinic. In the last several years we have not seen anything of substance demonstrating that it works. What’s changed?


#13

Maybe Pats can comment but Dr Armani seems the logical choice to try and recreate Gho’s technique.

Why? Well, clearly any non-Gho HT Doc would have to be a FUE practitioner with a lot of surgeries under their belt, so that wipes out a lot of HT Docs, even great ones like H & W, immediately.

Secondly, Armani has always seemed to be pretty keen to adopt any new break throughs in the HT field as they come in.

Thirdly, didn’t Armani have that little research arm going on? He may well be more up to date with the stem cell medium Gho uses tham most Docs who are out and out surgeons.

Finally, given the criticism Armani often receives for dense-packing super-low hairlines, the possibility of eliminating the donor issue should be high on his list of “Things I’d love to have on my website” and “Things I can use to defuse criticism if my work.”

Also, given the fact that Armani has a super-rich clientele in Dubai and elsewhere, if he can recreate Gho’s claims, he has the client base to make it worthwhile - I imagine the sheer fiddliness of deliberate transection would add a lot to the costs per graft. IF it works I doubt Armani would have many issues with clients paying double the price. Of course, that would put it out of the reach for many of us, but it would still be nice to know that it is in fact technically and practically possible to recreate a NW6 to NW1 if the only limitation is cash.


#14

Methinks Dr. Armani is too busy/successful to try a radically new procedure.

Dr. Cooley or Dr. Cole would be preferable.

Smaller offices, more HM experience and willing to experiment with new devices and procedures (ACell, PRP, etc.).


#15

Why would Armani need more donor hair?

For years he has been assuring everyone that he can already get 10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.


#16

» Why would Armani need more donor hair?
»
» For years he has been assuring everyone that he can already get
» 10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.

Show me those results where he has used “10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.”

your donor would be so depleted if you remove so many grafts there. and how do you know exactly that he gets there so many grafts?. maybe he lies to patient that he has used 3500 grafts but actually he used 2500? just robbed patient money for 1000 extra grafts (and this is big money). hair transplant is dirty business and you never know how many grafts they actually transplanted.


#17

» » Why would Armani need more donor hair?
» »
» » For years he has been assuring everyone that he can already get
» » 10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.
»
» Show me those results where he has used
» “10,000-15,000 grafts from the average
» FUE patient.”
»
» your donor would be so depleted if you remove so many grafts there. and
» how do you know exactly that he gets there so many grafts?. maybe he lies
» to patient that he has used 3500 grafts but actually he used 2500? just
» robbed patient money for 1000 extra grafts (and this is big money). hair
» transplant is dirty business and you never know how many grafts they
» actually transplanted.

I notice something in the extract of Gho’s article. Read closely:

From five individuals, between 100 and 150 grafts were harvested from the occipital area of the scalp. Suitable grafts were implanted into the recipient area. Hair growth and characteristics in the donor area and the recipient area were observed at different intervals. Results: After 3 months, between 92.1% and 104.1% (mean 97.7%) of the partial follicular units in the donor sites survived and produced hairs with the same characteristics. After 1 year, 91.1–101.7% (mean 95.9%) of the implanted partial follicular units regenerated hair growth with the same characteristics as the hairs in the donor area.

The key term here is “suitable grafts”. I wonder how many grafts that are extracted from the donor area are deemed unsuitable and not even implanted? It’s entirely possible that they remove, say, 10 grafts from the donor, check them under the microscope and realize that 9 of them were improperly extracted then tossed away. No wonder they can only do a maximum of 1200 grafts per pass. Something tells me it’s still amateur hour with Gho…


#18

» » » Why would Armani need more donor hair?
» » »
» » » For years he has been assuring everyone that he can already get
» » » 10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.
» »
» » Show me those results where he has used
» » “10,000-15,000 grafts from the average
» » FUE patient.”
» »
» » your donor would be so depleted if you remove so many grafts there. and
» » how do you know exactly that he gets there so many grafts?. maybe he
» lies
» » to patient that he has used 3500 grafts but actually he used 2500? just
» » robbed patient money for 1000 extra grafts (and this is big money).
» hair
» » transplant is dirty business and you never know how many grafts they
» » actually transplanted.
»
» I notice something in the extract of Gho’s article. Read closely:
»
» From five individuals, between 100 and 150 grafts were harvested from the
» occipital area of the scalp. Suitable grafts were implanted into the
» recipient area. Hair growth and characteristics in the donor area and the
» recipient area were observed at different intervals. Results: After 3
» months, between 92.1% and 104.1% (mean 97.7%) of the partial follicular
» units in the donor sites survived and produced hairs with the same
» characteristics. After 1 year, 91.1–101.7% (mean 95.9%) of the implanted
» partial follicular units regenerated hair growth with the same
» characteristics as the hairs in the donor area.
»
» The key term here is “suitable grafts”. I wonder how many grafts that are
» extracted from the donor area are deemed unsuitable and not even implanted?
» It’s entirely possible that they remove, say, 10 grafts from the donor,
» check them under the microscope and realize that 9 of them were improperly
» extracted then tossed away. No wonder they can only do a maximum of 1200
» grafts per pass. Something tells me it’s still amateur hour with Gho…

Ebutterg - about 84% of the grafts Gho extracts are suitable. What this means is that he can implant them into the recipient site and they will grow new hair.

The other 16% are unsuitable, meaning that too little tissue was taken out in order to grow new hair. These grafts were discarded, but there is no net loss as the majority of the donor hair from which these unsuitable grafts were taken grow back.


#19

» » » » Why would Armani need more donor hair?
» » » »
» » » » For years he has been assuring everyone that he can already get
» » » » 10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.
» » »
» » » Show me those results where he has used
» » » “10,000-15,000 grafts from the average
» » » FUE patient.”
» » »
» » » your donor would be so depleted if you remove so many grafts there.
» and
» » » how do you know exactly that he gets there so many grafts?. maybe he
» » lies
» » » to patient that he has used 3500 grafts but actually he used 2500?
» just
» » » robbed patient money for 1000 extra grafts (and this is big money).
» » hair
» » » transplant is dirty business and you never know how many grafts they
» » » actually transplanted.
» »
» » I notice something in the extract of Gho’s article. Read closely:
» »
» » From five individuals, between 100 and 150 grafts were harvested from
» the
» » occipital area of the scalp. Suitable grafts were implanted into the
» » recipient area. Hair growth and characteristics in the donor area and
» the
» » recipient area were observed at different intervals. Results: After 3
» » months, between 92.1% and 104.1% (mean 97.7%) of the partial follicular
» » units in the donor sites survived and produced hairs with the same
» » characteristics. After 1 year, 91.1–101.7% (mean 95.9%) of the
» implanted
» » partial follicular units regenerated hair growth with the same
» » characteristics as the hairs in the donor area.
» »
» » The key term here is “suitable grafts”. I wonder how many grafts that
» are
» » extracted from the donor area are deemed unsuitable and not even
» implanted?
» » It’s entirely possible that they remove, say, 10 grafts from the donor,
» » check them under the microscope and realize that 9 of them were
» improperly
» » extracted then tossed away. No wonder they can only do a maximum of
» 1200
» » grafts per pass. Something tells me it’s still amateur hour with Gho…
»
» Ebutterg - about 84% of the grafts Gho extracts are suitable. What this
» means is that he can implant them into the recipient site and they will
» grow new hair.
»
» The other 16% are unsuitable, meaning that too little tissue was taken out
» in order to grow new hair. These grafts were discarded, but there is no net
» loss as the majority of the donor hair from which these unsuitable grafts
» were taken grow back.

Except only 70-80% of the donor grows back. So there is a good 5% net loss with every pass. And I still question these numbers until I see actual patient results.


#20

Show me those results where he has used “10,000-15,000 grafts from the average FUE patient.”

your donor would be so depleted if you remove so many grafts there. and how do you know exactly that he gets there so many grafts?. maybe he lies to patient that he has used 3500 grafts but actually he used 2500? just robbed patient money for 1000 extra grafts (and this is big money). hair transplant is dirty business and you never know how many grafts they actually transplanted.

I know, man! :stuck_out_tongue:

My comment was pure dripping sarcasm.

Those huge estimates insult the intelligence of anyone who knows HTs very well. Anyone can poke 15,000 holes in a patient’s head, buut what are the results? Will it deliver 3x the cosmetic results of a 5000-graft transplant? Does it leave a totally moth-eaten donor area?