“Should be hard to get too…”
Nope. It is quite easy to get. A Google search will result in hundreds of suppliers.
A few years ago I smacked my head on the corner of some gym equipment. I had a small wound in the recessed vellous area near my hairline. Eventually a single terminal hair grew there that stood out against the vellous hairs. I’ve always wanted to try finding a tool similar to a dermaroller, but with deeper penetration, that I could use to wound my bald and thin areas, but I’m not confident that I would know the exact depth required to encourage new growth. Other variables are probably involved as well.
» Hi all,
»
» So I’ve been lurking on another website on hair loss and many there have
» devised a homemade follicular neogenesis procedure. This is based on the
» work by Cotsarelis and Fuchs, as well as the new startup Follica, Inc.
» It’d be great to know what you all think of this procedure.
»
» 1. Mix lithium orotate or chloride (1 1/2 crushed pills) with diemythl
» sulfoxide or DMSO (1 tsp of liquid) and caffeine (2 tsps of powder). Mix
» thoroughly in a bowl. These topicals appear to increase WNT signalling.
»
» 2. Stir powder mixture into na 8 oz solution of 50% water plus 50% ethyl
» alcohol. This solution should increase absorption by decreasing particle
» size of powder. After thoroughly mixing pour solution in a spray bottle or
» dropper.
»
» 3. Use a dermaroller or lancet to gently wound the scalp. This creates
» wounding on the scalp that MAY mimic the wounding necessary to create-stem
» cell like conditions for new hair growth.
»
» 4. Spray solution directly on scalp.
»
» Do spraying and wounding several times a week. What is exciting about this
» procedure is that the goal of this is NOT to keep your hair but rather
» create new hair by inducing WNT protein signaling (hence the topicals plus
» wounding).
»
» Thoughts/comments?
»
» Best,
» BB
There are so many anecdotes about wounds and new hair growth – even in areas susceptible to DHT – that I believe it is a viable solution to baldness. Just browse the internet and you’ll find out what I’m talking about it.
The question I have is – what kind of wound was it? How DEEP was the wound? Based on your experience do you think a lancet (like a dermaroller but you can go deeper) would work? Keep in mind that lancing/dermaroller doesn’t quite leave an open wound – just a microscopic wound that (quickly?) repairs itself.
» A few years ago I smacked my head on the corner of some gym equipment. I
» had a small wound in the recessed vellous area near my hairline.
» Eventually a single terminal hair grew there that stood out against the
» vellous hairs. I’ve always wanted to try finding a tool similar to a
» dermaroller, but with deeper penetration, that I could use to wound my
» bald and thin areas, but I’m not confident that I would know the exact
» depth required to encourage new growth. Other variables are probably
» involved as well.
I too have read about strange hairgrowth on men who have been in car accidents, etc.
Stephen Foote used to post a medical article about “ligature” or somethhing like that that was done to a woman or man who had alopecia (cutting the blood supply to the scalp by some sort of surgical means) and the hair grew better.
I seen a guy once clerking at a Hollywood video store who had an obvious, bad head wound. His skull had a big dent in it over about a fifth of the total surface area. He looked just pitiful. You tried not to stare at it, but the look of the wound made you think of PAIN in blinking lights. There was good hair in the wound in the dent (the dent was shockingly deep…I bet it was at least half an inch into the skull and a good three to four inches wide at its widest. Hair looked pretty thick in the dent too as opposed to just normal density in other places on his head. I’ll never forget seeing that guy, as I felt so sorrry for him. He must have been accustomed to people staring at his head. He kept the hair buzzed and I wondered why he didn’t grow the hair long over it as an attempt to hide it, but the skin didn’t look right (almosts as if there was a first or second degree burn there a few years before) and it looked a big moist, so maybe he had to put some sort of ointment like neosporin on it. And there he was working, I hoped he had medical insurance (I think about stuff like this when I see people)…
Follica merely has to test this on someone and report the results. Until then, we are all guessing. My problem with them being able to turn a profit off such a product is that there is no real proprietary step. If one test subject got it done and it grew hair, all he’d have to do is go online and blab his mouth about how deep the wounds were or how the skin was dermabrated and how the healing was managed (i.e. left completely alone for X-amount of hours or days) and then people would have it. As Boston Baldy has stated, there are a few known, obtainaible subtances that induce WNT signalling…
It would seem to lead to men doing it at home in the long run if it did work really well…and that would be problematic for any company.
I really have no idea how deep the wound was. I hit my head. There was a spot of blood. I probably picked the scab off after a few days. I had no idea that I’d grow a hair there, so I didn’t think about it. I don’t remember how long before I noticed the hair. Maybe a couple of months.
» There are so many anecdotes about wounds and new hair growth – even in
» areas susceptible to DHT – that I believe it is a viable solution to
» baldness. Just browse the internet and you’ll find out what I’m talking
» about it.
»
» The question I have is – what kind of wound was it? How DEEP was the
» wound? Based on your experience do you think a lancet (like a dermaroller
» but you can go deeper) would work? Keep in mind that lancing/dermaroller
» doesn’t quite leave an open wound – just a microscopic wound that
» (quickly?) repairs itself.
»
» » A few years ago I smacked my head on the corner of some gym equipment.
» I
» » had a small wound in the recessed vellous area near my hairline.
» » Eventually a single terminal hair grew there that stood out against the
» » vellous hairs. I’ve always wanted to try finding a tool similar to a
» » dermaroller, but with deeper penetration, that I could use to wound my
» » bald and thin areas, but I’m not confident that I would know the exact
» » depth required to encourage new growth. Other variables are probably
» » involved as well.
Did anyone try this? I dont see the danger. Also, I dont see the point in waiting for follica when it is very slim that it will be successful. It sounds like a process that some people on the board could grasp.
» BTW wouldn’t there be more to balding than testosterone levels?
Yes, adequate hormone levels are not enough to cause MPB in and of themselves.
» OK–I didn’t realize that the newly generated follicles don’t start over
» again from square one, so to speak.
This remains to be answered.
» I believe that, if the original cells are from the DHT-susceptible areas,
» the process is only creating de novo follicles (and in that sense going
» through an embryonic follicle-formation pathway), but the cells are still
» coming from DHT-susceptible cell lines, so the resulting follicles
» would be DHT-susceptible and would ultimately fall victim to MPB.
I think they are likely to be DHT sensitive as well. But I don’t think this necessarily means they succumb right away. This is really an impossible question to answer without trying it, since there’s still a lot that isn’t known about the cellular processes involved in MPB.
This is obviously a crucial question. One possible workaround is to use 5AR inhibitors or growth stimulars to maintain the new hair follicles. Personally, I don’t want to have to do that.
» Of course, the big picture point here is that why would these doctors even
» risk this, when they can easily use cells from the DHT-resistant “donor
» area” to accomplish the same thing?
Because thus far, that approach doesn’t seem to be working out too well. In fact, it’s been one failure after another, despite the fact that Jahoda discovered this basic concept 25 years ago, and we’re still waiting for something to come out of it.
I think Follica’s approach is far more elagent than a HM-like solution. The DHT sensitivity issue is obviously a hurdle, though.
The big DHT exposure starts in puberty. I’d be surprised if any of us hadn’t seen it begin to get going by age 13.
Once it got going, none of us even fought it with ANYTHING for DHT until we were 18 at the earliest, and usually much later.
And even then, how many more years was it before the DHT damage was really causing cosmetic ruin?
If we even get as long with the new hairs as we had with the originals, most of us are still already set for 10-20 years with any effort put into keeping them. Especially if ASC-J9 (the new AR-attacking topical in testing) gets to market and works acceptably.
» The big DHT exposure starts in puberty. I’d be surprised if any of us
» hadn’t seen it begin to get going by age 13.
»
» Once it got going, none of us even fought it with ANYTHING for DHT until
» we were 18 at the earliest, and usually much later.
I was lucky enough to get on antiadrogens (Propecia and Nizoral) about 2 years after I started noticing my hair thinning (about 19-20 years of age). I still have a cosmetically acceptable (you can’t tell that I’m thinning unless my hair gets very long) head of hair nearly 10 years later, and I don’t consider myself a great responder to those class of drugs; I didn’t really get much regrowth, I just kept what I still had. If Follica is able to produce hair that is still receptive to DHT, it shouldn’t be a problem for those of us that are just average responders to antiadrogens (and that is, by most studys’ account, about 90%). I’d be happy to get a full head of DHT susceptible hair.
» The big DHT exposure starts in puberty. I’d be surprised if any of us
» hadn’t seen it begin to get going by age 13.
Yup…I developed temples around 13.
» If we even get as long with the new hairs as we had with the originals,
» most of us are still already set for 10-20 years with any effort put into
» keeping them. Especially if ASC-J9 (the new AR-attacking topical in
» testing) gets to market and works acceptably.
We should hear from them about ASCJ-9 by June-July and know how that went. If it passes phase-II with moderate success, i’ll start using it on my face (acne) and scalp (hairloss).
» I don’t recommend taking lithium as an oral supplement for hair loss – no
» evidence that it can help with hair loss. In fact, in high doses lithium
» carbonate can actually CAUSE hair loss. In lower doses it is considered
» safe by the medical establishment for the treatment of mood disorders,
» however.
»
» But like I said lithium actually has ANTI-cancer properties. Since most of
» us have MPB, which is strongly correlated with prostate cancer, here’s an
» interesting article:
»
» Sun A, Shanmugam I, Song J, Terranova PF, Thrasher JB, Li B. Lithium
» suppresses cell proliferation by interrupting E2F-DNA interaction and
» subsequently reducing S-phase gene expression in prostate cancer.
» Prostate. 2007 Apr 17; [Epub ahead of print]
» PMID: 17440966 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
»
» “BACKGROUND: Lithium is an existing drug for bipolar disorder
» and its uptake was recently linked to reduced tumor incidence
» compared to the general population. The major target of lithium
» action is glycogen synthase kinase 3 (GSK-3). Since GSK-3
» expression and activation are associated with prostate cancer
» progression, the anti-cancer potential of lithium on prostate
» cancer was investigated in this study. METHODS: Multiple
» prostate cancer cell lines were treated with lithium chloride
» (LiCl). Cell proliferation and cell cycle distribution were
» analysed. DNA replication was determined using BrdU labeling
» assay. Genome-wide screening of gene expression was performed
» using cDNA microarray assay. GSK-3beta gene-specific silencing
» was conducted using small interferencing RNA (siRNA)
» transfection. E2 factor (E2F) transactivation was evaluated
» using reporter gene assay and E2F-DNA interaction was
» determined with chromatin-immunoprecipitation assay (ChIP).
» RESULTS: LiCl significantly inhibited cell proliferation, which
» was associated with reduced DNA replication and S-phase cell
» cycle arrest. LiCl significantly decreased the expression of
» multiple DNA replication-related genes, including cell division
» cycle 6 (cdc6), cyclin A, cyclin E, and cdc25C, which are
» regulated by E2F factor during cell cycle. A novel GSK-3-
» specific inhibitor TDZD-8 and GSK-3beta siRNA also suppressed
» the expression of these E2F target genes, indicating that LiCl-
» induced anti-cancer effect was associated with GSK-3beta
» inhibition. Furthermore, LiCl suppressed E2F transactivation by
» interrupting the interaction of E2F1 factor with its target
» gene promoter. CONCLUSIONS: These data indicated that LiCl
» suppresses cancer cell proliferation by disrupting E2F-DNA
» interaction and subsequent E2F-mediated gene expression in
» prostate cancer. Prostate © 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.”
»
» Isn’t it interesting how finasteride also limits the spread of prostate
» cancer?
»
» » BB wrote:
» »
» » -lithium appears very safe as a topical AND oral supplement-
» »
» » Please stay away from lithium!!!
» » Lithium is used in the drug therapy of major depression. It is well
» known
» » for its very narrow therapeutic range and its strong side-effects. It
» » should not be used as an oral supplement.
» »
» » I don´t know about topical application but I would stay away from it as
» » well.
» »
» » Should be hard to get too…
very