Home | News | Find a Doctor | Ask a Question | Free

Homemade Follicular Neogenesis


#1

Hi all,

So I’ve been lurking on another website on hair loss and many there have devised a homemade follicular neogenesis procedure. This is based on the work by Cotsarelis and Fuchs, as well as the new startup Follica, Inc. It’d be great to know what you all think of this procedure.

  1. Mix lithium orotate or chloride (1 1/2 crushed pills) with diemythl sulfoxide or DMSO (1 tsp of liquid) and caffeine (2 tsps of powder). Mix thoroughly in a bowl. These topicals appear to increase WNT signalling.

  2. Stir powder mixture into na 8 oz solution of 50% water plus 50% ethyl alcohol. This solution should increase absorption by decreasing particle size of powder. After thoroughly mixing pour solution in a spray bottle or dropper.

  3. Use a dermaroller or lancet to gently wound the scalp. This creates wounding on the scalp that MAY mimic the wounding necessary to create-stem cell like conditions for new hair growth.

  4. Spray solution directly on scalp.

Do spraying and wounding several times a week. What is exciting about this procedure is that the goal of this is NOT to keep your hair but rather create new hair by inducing WNT protein signaling (hence the topicals plus wounding).

Thoughts/comments?

Best,
BB


#2

When I have more time (not tonight), I’d like to ask you about this…

BTW—didn’t know that caffeine could up WNT…

Parting note…I’d imagine it would be good not to wash the scalp or even touch it much after the wounding for a good week or so in order to allow it to heal just like a rodents back or a rabbits back would in lab circumstances. Soaps and shampoos might interefere with signalling or the response to bacteria and germs may or may not have something to do with the skin’s instructions to creat a follicle…it would seemingly be best to attempt to copy the wound-healing protocol followed in the mice as closely as possible from a care standpoint. …

You find some interesteing stuff BB> It will be nice to see you have a full head of hair someday:-)


#3

how much time wastefulness.:frowning: intercytex now…


#4

» Hi all,
»
» So I’ve been lurking on another website on hair loss and many there have
» devised a homemade follicular neogenesis procedure. This is based on the
» work by Cotsarelis and Fuchs, as well as the new startup Follica, Inc.
» It’d be great to know what you all think of this procedure.
»
» 1. Mix lithium orotate or chloride (1 1/2 crushed pills) with diemythl
» sulfoxide or DMSO (1 tsp of liquid) and caffeine (2 tsps of powder). Mix
» thoroughly in a bowl. These topicals appear to increase WNT signalling.
»
» 2. Stir powder mixture into na 8 oz solution of 50% water plus 50% ethyl
» alcohol. This solution should increase absorption by decreasing particle
» size of powder. After thoroughly mixing pour solution in a spray bottle or
» dropper.
»
» 3. Use a dermaroller or lancet to gently wound the scalp. This creates
» wounding on the scalp that MAY mimic the wounding necessary to create-stem
» cell like conditions for new hair growth.
»
» 4. Spray solution directly on scalp.
»
» Do spraying and wounding several times a week. What is exciting about this
» procedure is that the goal of this is NOT to keep your hair but rather
» create new hair by inducing WNT protein signaling (hence the topicals plus
» wounding).
»
» Thoughts/comments?
»
» Best,
» BB

Personally, I do not recommend trying this.


#5

Waseda, is that you?


#6

I think it is crazy. But let me know if it worked :slight_smile:


#7

Hey BB…I still dont get where even if this would regrow hair, that this “new” hair would be any more resistant to the DHT that caused the original hair to fall out ??? As thrilled as I would be to see my hair regrowing, I would be crushed if it started falling back out again in 6 months or so…


#8

» Hey BB…I still dont get where even if this would regrow hair, that
» this “new” hair would be any more resistant to the DHT that caused the
» original hair to fall out ??? As thrilled as I would be to see my hair
» regrowing, I would be crushed if it started falling back out again in 6
» months or so…

Good question, Raptor. As I see it, any new hair grown by this method would NOT be resistant to DHT at all, since all its cellular components are derived from cells from the MPB areas.


#9

» So I’ve been lurking on another website on hair loss and many there have
» devised a homemade follicular neogenesis procedure. This is based on the
» work by Cotsarelis and Fuchs, as well as the new startup Follica, Inc.

have the ‘inventors’ tried this? has it worked?


#10

» Good question, Raptor. As I see it, any new hair grown by this method
» would NOT be resistant to DHT at all, since all its cellular components
» are derived from cells from the MPB areas.

But what if the new hair grows nicely until 20 or 30 or 40 or however-old-you-were-when-you-went-bald years later?

In my case, I’d be close to 85 years old when I’d go bald again.

And hey, maybe I could grow it again by this or by then a better method.

(Or maybe I’d already be dead.)


#11

» Perhaps the equivalent of making it to the moon in a helicopter… but have at it, probably as much potential as most of the scam topicals out there.

Hi all,
»
» So I’ve been lurking on another website on hair loss and many there have
» devised a homemade follicular neogenesis procedure. This is based on the
» work by Cotsarelis and Fuchs, as well as the new startup Follica, Inc.
» It’d be great to know what you all think of this procedure.
»
» 1. Mix lithium orotate or chloride (1 1/2 crushed pills) with diemythl
» sulfoxide or DMSO (1 tsp of liquid) and caffeine (2 tsps of powder). Mix
» thoroughly in a bowl. These topicals appear to increase WNT signalling.
»
» 2. Stir powder mixture into na 8 oz solution of 50% water plus 50% ethyl
» alcohol. This solution should increase absorption by decreasing particle
» size of powder. After thoroughly mixing pour solution in a spray bottle or
» dropper.
»
» 3. Use a dermaroller or lancet to gently wound the scalp. This creates
» wounding on the scalp that MAY mimic the wounding necessary to create-stem
» cell like conditions for new hair growth.
»
» 4. Spray solution directly on scalp.
»
» Do spraying and wounding several times a week. What is exciting about this
» procedure is that the goal of this is NOT to keep your hair but rather
» create new hair by inducing WNT protein signaling (hence the topicals plus
» wounding).
»
» Thoughts/comments?
»
» Best,
» BB


#12

» » Good question, Raptor. As I see it, any new hair grown by this method
» » would NOT be resistant to DHT at all, since all its cellular components
» » are derived from cells from the MPB areas.
»
» But what if the new hair grows nicely until 20 or 30 or 40 or
» however-old-you-were-when-you-went-bald years later?
»
» In my case, I’d be close to 85 years old when I’d go bald again.
»
» And hey, maybe I could grow it again by this or by then a better method.
»
» (Or maybe I’d already be dead.)

No, I don’t see how the follicles would genetically revert to an embryonic state.

Yes, something like this is basically mimicking the embryonic development of hair follicles, i.e., creating hair follicles “de novo”. But remember, you are still dealing with adult cells, and adult levels of testosterone (and thus, adult levels of DHT.)

Granted, a 60 year-old would not have the same testosterone levels of a 20 year-old.

But I don’t see how they would get the cells to revert to a youthful or embryonic state. Inducing new follicles to grow, in my view, is not the same as turning back the genetic clock in the cell nucleus. Instead, you’re basically recreating an embryonic process but using adult building blocks to do it.

Not that I’m saying I think this experiment (the way they described it) would work anyway. I agree with thuggish ruggish, who said it’s like trying to fly to the moon in a helicopter.


#13

Hey all,

I thought I’d add some clarifications for those wanting to try this procedure. I plan on doing this soon. Several points:

  1. You need both DMSO and Lithium for follicular neogenesis. DMSO positively activates the WNT/beta-catenin pathway while Lithium prevents inhibition of this pathway. Specifically, lithium prevents two components from inhibiting activation of the WNT/beta-catenin pathway: the protein glycogen synthase kinase-3beta (GSK-3b) and the gene Dickkopf-1 (DKK-1). Remarkably, recent research shows that DKK-1 is the gene most upregulated by DHT.

  2. Topical caffeine does not appear to activate the WNT/beta-catenin pathway. However, caffeine does have two important functions in alopecia. First, it activates the protein sonic hedgehog (shh), which appears to play a role in hair regeneration (though more work needs to be done on this). Second, caffeine is a potent DHT blocker, so it indirectly inhibits the DKK-1 gene (which in turn inhibits the WNT/beta-catenin pathway).

  3. Lithium Orotate is more bioavailable than Lithium Carbonate, so it’s probably the preferred form to apply topically.

  4. Several posters had concerns that new hair follicles would still be vulnerable to DHT-induced miniturization. I do not think this is the case if hairs actually grow de novo from the scalp. The work by Cotsarelis and Fuchs has shown that DHT-resistant follicular neogenesis is possible in otherwise DHT-vulnerable scalp. Regardless, even if the new hairs are DHT-vulnerable then the above procedure (if it works) will just continually replace old hairs with new hairs.

  5. Finally, I should add that this procedure is VERY, VERY cheap.

Best,
BB


#14

Why?

» Personally, I do not recommend trying this.


#15

If this was like flying to the moon in a helicopter, these men (Stenn and Costarialis) would not be major investors and on board with this new company.

Theoretically speaking, if a man was on something like dutasteride, and could create new follicles, the androgenic stimulis in those new follicles would probably never get high enough to “kick off” his male pattern baldness genetics in the first place if you think about it.

I was thinking of this procedure in conjunction with a FUE-transplant, letting the donor holes heal with the assistance of extra WNT-signalling protiens and having the healing “managed” (i.e. no sleeping with your head resting on a pillow for a couple of weeks to allow the wounds to heal with no un-natural closure, but to heal like mouse or rabbit backs did in the experiments).


#16

benji,

I agree with you, for the most part. But I still strongly think that follicular neogenesis, if done like Follica plans, will NOT produce hair follicles sensitive to DHT. The entire point to the wounding/LiCl/DMSO is to create new skin and follicles through our own adult stem cells, which go to the wound and then differentiate into various cells, including hair follicles. These new hairs are created under non-congential genetic conditions. This is what the May 2007 Cotsarelis et al. article showed – i.e., that WNT activation (aided by wounding) fosters de novo hair growth that bypasses the original genetic programming. So I’d still be taking dutasteride or finasteride while undergoing a WNT activation procedure (just in case), but the evidence seems to show that this wouldn’t be necessary.

Anecdotally, a 47 year-old man named “hatchet” at regrowth.com reports using the wounding/LiCi/DMSO procedure and having new hair follicles grow for the first time in his life (he’s been balding since 19). Several others report some growth, but most of thee posters are just starting out on this procedure. So we will have to wait and see what happens…

BTW, I liked the idea of using DMSO/LiCi with FUE to induce follicular growth. But why the “managed” healing? I don’t think that would be necessary.

Best,
BB


#17

» These new hairs are created under genetic conditions that are NOT the ones
» we are born with, and thus are not sensitive to congenital genetic
» pathways. This is what the May 2007 Cotsarelis et al. article showed –
» i.e., that WNT activation (aided by wounding) fosters de novo hair growth
» that bypasses the original genetic programming.

I’m going to go out on a BIG limb here and say that I think that it would NOT really bypass the original genetic programming. Inducing brand new hairs to grow via WNT activation is not, IMHO, the same as “bypassing the original genetic programming”. I think people are reading this part of the research incorrectly.

I believe that, if the original cells are from the DHT-susceptible areas, the process is only creating de novo follicles (and in that sense going through an embryonic follicle-formation pathway), but the cells are still coming from DHT-susceptible cell lines, so the resulting follicles would be DHT-susceptible and would ultimately fall victim to MPB.

I realize that I definitely might be very, very wrong on this – but this is my intuition talking.

I think that whatever the genetic coding of the cell lines used (the genotype), will determine the ultimate phenotypic expression of the resulting follicles. I think this is a barrier that cannot be easily circumvented just by creating new follicles. Sure, new follicles would be created; and that would be wonderful; but they would be DHT-susceptible, not DHT-resistant.

I’d even go so far, however, to suspect that Cotsarelis et al. know this, and their plan is to use cell lines that come from DHT-RESISTANT AREAS to do this.

Again, I may be very wrong. But I’m just saying this to be on the record about it. If the subject comes up again and we learn more, remember that this is what I said!

By the way, when I reiterated thuggish’s remark about flying to the moon in a helicopter, I was referring to forum members attempting this “procedure” at home, NOT to Cotsarelis and Stenn’s efforts.


#18

» Why?
»
» » Personally, I do not recommend trying this.

I believe this technique is just too far removed from the original experiment to prove to be beneficial. Normally I would say go for it anyways, but due to the invasive nature of the technique, I cannot recommend it. That being said, since people are going through with it, I’ll follow their progress with interest.


#19

» By the way, when I reiterated thuggish’s remark about flying to the moon
» in a helicopter, I was referring to forum members attempting this
» “procedure” at home, NOT to Cotsarelis and Stenn’s efforts.

I agree with the above comment. I think the “homemade follicular neogenesis” is at best only an approximation of a baldness cure. However, it is a total solution if it works! As far as DHT sensitibity, I disagree. The cell lines are embryonic in the wounding plus WNT activation and follicular neogenesis starts from scratch, so to speak. Of course these were done with mice, so no one knows with complete certainty.

Best,
BB


#20

» I believe this technique is just too far removed from the original
» experiment to prove to be beneficial. Normally I would say go for it
» anyways, but due to the invasive nature of the technique, I cannot
» recommend it. That being said, since people are going through with it,
» I’ll follow their progress with interest.

LiCi and DMSO are very promising WNT promoters. As far as being invasive, I think part of the problem is that the above procedure is not invasive enough, lol – at least not to the level as in the experiment by Cotsarelis et al. The wounding is quite gentle with needling or dermaroller. In the end the procedure may not produce new follicles but it may keep existing follicles via positive WNT activation and DKK-1 inhibition. (Also I should add that the gentle wounding as outlined above will be beneficial regardless by increasing the absorption of DMSO and LiCi).